Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event

[moraldeficiency]

they are not basic evoultion anymore, Mday made them a indangered race and then Norman Osborn tried to inslave them. Cyclops cut them off so he could protect them, and now the world is reupping there sentenal program and hunting mutants. Cyclops goes overboard sometimes, but his motives are always thinking about his race first.

Hasn't that changed though with the birth of hope. I mean isn't that the hope in hope?

Those were hitler's motives also. X-Men should be about people, mutant or human. When you go one race above another congrats you're now the bad guy.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The Cyclops/Hitler analogy doesnt work bc he is NOTHING like Hitler. You cant really compare. Cyclops isnt a racist and isnt out and trying to kill or hate anyone that isnt a mutant The worst he's done was forming X-force but he ended that and hasnt been doing anything questionable since. Besides only a small few were even involved with X-force. The vast majority of the X-men dont subscribe to those methods and are true heroes.

That was true in the past but a little thing called M-day happened which wiped out the vast majority of their numbers. Since then they have needed to fight for survival. Even now that new mutants are forming post-Second Coming, its happening at a very slow rate, and nowhere near fast enough to replenish the numbers which were diminished. Their survival is a constant issue bc they as a race arent where they were several years ago.

No one said anything about killing Hope. We dont even know what will happen to her or what they have planned yet.

The X-men handled their split MUCH better than the Avengers did. Thats a fact.

Maybe in the ideal world but most of the people that joined the X-men is bc things dont work out like that. They sought the X-men for sanctuary and acceptance bc they werent getting it in their everyday lives bc of the hate and prejudice around them. Others joined bc they were a danger to those around them bc they didnt not fully understand their abilities and came to learn more about themselves.

it was a stretch but that's the road he's heading down. He's becoming like Magneto who basically was the mutant hitler.

He made san francisco a mutant ghetto. He's also made sure all those mutants could basically be targetted at once upping the threats against them significantly. He's just been too stupid for far too long.

Eventually humans will become mutants, maybe current mutants die but others will rise. Instead of being so worried about mutant vs. human he should just consider them in the same pool and fight in that way. He started down the road of Martin Luther King Jr and found himself Malcolm X.

The event is supposed to come out of X-Sanction and be about hope, that much has been released.

Which split which time?

Cyclops is still a massive *****e.

Oh, they need to shut up about that. If I had laser eyes I wouldn't care how many people wouldn't except me cause you know what? I've got freaking laser eyes! And yes it does work out like that. Oh poor you, being a rockstar or pro athlete or naturally talented actor and your incredible gifts have made people nervous and jealous, cry me a river mutants. Any crippled person in the world would gradually trade places then you could understand pity and uselessness and give up hate and fear would that be better? Life just isn't that bad for them.

New mutants, join avengers academy instead. Have a bit of fun, save the world, be less emo.

 

[Havok83]

Hasn't that changed though with the birth of hope. I mean isn't that the hope in hope?

Those were hitler's motives also. X-Men should be about people, mutant or human. When you go one race above another congrats you're now the bad guy.

No it hasnt. Hope's birth wasnt associated with a spike and hasnt done anything to change the dwindling numbers. Its given them hope (no pun intended) that the more mutants will come in the future but its still a very rare phenomeneom

Wher are you getting that from? The Xmen are NOT about hate or discrimination of anyone thats not a mutant. They are welcome and accomodating to everyone. Several humans joined up with them following the move to San Francisco like Moonstar, Prodigy, Kavito Rao, Dr. Takiguchi among others. Lets not forget Scott gave out an open invitation to all former mutants and their human families, opening up their home as an open sanctuary. And the X-men were helping the citizens (most of whom are human) of SF and the surrounding areas. Plus the Jean Grey school consists of many students that are non-mutant. Wolverine opened it up to welcome any powered being who wants help and being a mutant isnt a prerequisite for admission

 

[moraldeficiency]

No it hasnt. Hope's birth wasnt associated with a spike and hasnt done anything to change the dwindling numbers. Its given them hope (no pun intended) that the more mutants will come in the future but its still a very rare phenomeneom

Wher are you getting that from? The Xmen are NOT about hate or discrimination of anyone thats not a mutant. They are welcome and accomodating to everyone. Several humans joined up with them following the move to San Francisco like Moonstar, Prodigy, Kavito Rao, Dr. Takiguchi among others. Lets not forget Scott gave out an open invitation to all former mutants and their human families, opening up their home as an open sanctuary. And the X-men were helping the citizens (most of whom are human) of SF and the surrounding areas. Plus the Jean Grey school consists of many students that are non-mutant. Wolverine opened it up to welcome any powered being who wants help and being a mutant isnt a prerequisite for admission

Well they thought no more mutants could be born. Hope changed that so the magic or whatever you want to call M-Day either wasn't complete or is fading. So if new mutants can be born mutants won't ever die out, they've just encountered a setback not a stop in their evolution.

Isolation is step one down a dangerous path. Secret kill squads for your enemies would also be pretty hitler esque, not that cyke has ever set up his own brown coats to kill his enemies or anything.

Most of the X-Men's help for san franciso wouldn't have been needed if they weren't there causing the problem. Scott's also made sure one good missile strike can now kill almost all remaining mutants. How the hell is he considered a good leader?

Jean Grey school is a right move. Wolverine has shown to be a better person than cyclops. Never thought that day would come but he's doing it.

 

[Havok83]

it was a stretch but that's the road he's heading down. He's becoming like Magneto who basically was the mutant hitler.

Yes it is a stretch. Ive compared him to Magneto myself but not for the reasons you have. Magneto DID hate humans as a race and felt they were opressive to humans. He did feel mutants were superior and was about killing any human life bc it had no value compared to a mutant. That is not the same ideologies that Scott believes in. He doesnt have humans at all nor does he feel that his mutant race is superior. Thats a fundamental difference between them.

He made san francisco a mutant ghetto. He's also made sure all those mutants could basically be targetted at once upping the threats against them significantly. He's just been too stupid for far too long.

I hated the idea of Utopia for this reason but he did have good intentions. He felt it was about giving the mutants protection and sanctuary. Bastion was targeting mutants and those on their own with no one to back them up like Beautiful Dreamer were killed off. Had she been with the X-men, things might have been different for her. And then there was Selene who was rounding up her own troops for her own evil needs. Again, those she went after could have benefited from being in the company of the X-men.

Eventually humans will become mutants, maybe current mutants die but others will rise. Instead of being so worried about mutant vs. human he should just consider them in the same pool and fight in that way. He started down the road of Martin Luther King Jr and found himself Malcolm X.

With less than 200, thats not the case anymore. Like 90% of them were nearly wiped out in Second Coming. All it takes is another Legacy Virus like outbreak to kill them all off. Evolution is not on their side anymore. Theres too few of them and mutant births again, arent happening all that often

Which split which time?

I already said Schism

Cyclops is still a massive *****e.

Thats debatable but the guy has been trying to change that. I give him credit for that as he hasnt been acting like or doing *****ey things lately.

Oh, they need to shut up about that. If I had laser eyes I wouldn't care how many people wouldn't except me cause you know what? I've got freaking laser eyes! And yes it does work out like that. Oh poor you, being a rockstar or pro athlete or naturally talented actor and your incredible gifts have made people nervous and jealous, cry me a river mutants. Any crippled person in the world would gradually trade places then you could understand pity and uselessness and give up hate and fear would that be better? Life just isn't that bad for them.

and thats a very close minded way to view things and not how things actually have been working out. We've had countless stories of teens beaten and nearly killed bc of who they are. Families that have disowned and turned their back on their children. Kids are completely loss bc they can not comprehend the changes that are happening to them. Not every mutant ability is a gift. Many are a curse and its quite understandable why being around those like yourselves is such a relief

Well they thought no more mutants could be born. Hope changed that so the magic or whatever you want to call M-Day either wasn't complete or is fading. So if new mutants can be born mutants won't ever die out, they've just encountered a setback not a stop in their evolution.

and exactly how many mutants have been born since Hope was? Im drawing a blank but to the best of my knowledge, she's been the only one. There's still ALOT of answers they dont have

 

[jonathancrane]

No it hasnt. Hope's birth wasnt associated with a spike and hasnt done anything to change the dwindling numbers. Its given them hope (no pun intended) that the more mutants will come in the future but its still a very rare phenomeneom

Wher are you getting that from? The Xmen are NOT about hate or discrimination of anyone thats not a mutant. They are welcome and accomodating to everyone. Several humans joined up with them following the move to San Francisco like Moonstar, Prodigy, Kavito Rao, Dr. Takiguchi among others. Lets not forget Scott gave out an open invitation to all former mutants and their human families, opening up their home as an open sanctuary. And the X-men were helping the citizens (most of whom are human) of SF and the surrounding areas. Plus the Jean Grey school consists of many students that are non-mutant. Wolverine opened it up to welcome any powered being who wants help and being a mutant isnt a prerequisite for admission

Another recent example is the inclusion of the offspring of Krakoa. While Wolverine saw the tactical advantage of having grounds that could serve as a defense, he also maintained the standard you mentioned. If the inclusion of a sentient mask of rock and earth is not a manifestation of the aforementioned kindness and openness, I do not know what it is.

 

[storyteller]

Read your history before you bring up Malcolm X folks. Cyclops gathered all the mutants and put them into one spot. Why? While it makes it easier to take them all out at once, its still not as easy as picking them off around the globe. Their enemies will find them one way or another. Outside of leaving the planet, they are screwed. At least together they have a better defense. Now is Wolverines plan really better? He intends to keep Xforce active. Beast and Kitty are well aware of it. Unlike Cyclops, Wolverine sugarcoated it with a "think of the children" pitch.

The mutant race currently doesn't look like it will bounce back. Very few mutants are getting activated and its unlikely that any mutant will give birth to more. Right now its hard to make sense of because the X-gene's disappearance is weird. Magneto shouldn't even count as a mutant anymore. Rictor got his powers back via Scarlet witch. All the activated mutants needed hope to get under control and Hope herself in controlling them.

 

[Havok83]

The New Avengers #24
Story by Brian Michael Bendis
Art & Cover by Mike Deodato
Avengers Art Appreciation Variant By Joe Quinones
• Avx Tie-In!
• The New Avengers Have Received The Call To Duty By Captain America To Go To War Against The X-Men.
• Wolverine Will Be Forced To Choose A Side.
32Pgs./Rated T …$3.99

 

[runawayboulder]

Wolverine is on his own side if you ask me, between the new school and Uncanny X-Force. He should just say F both of you guys, stay out of Westchester. He's cool again that way.

 

[moraldeficiency]

If it's between steve and scott that's an easy choice for logan.

 

[KangConquers]

Wolverine will side with the X-Men (or has he already; I'm behind...) but I'd trust Steve over Scott any day of the week.

 

[Sebastos]

New Avengers #25
Brian Michael Bendis (W) • Mike Deodato (A)
• Avx Tie-In!
• Iron Fist Discovers The Shocking Connection Between Himself And The Cosmic Phoenix Force...!
32 Pgs./Rated T ...$3.99

Holy ****!

 

[Anubis]

Seriously?

 

[runawayboulder]

Marvel just doesn't get it.........

 

[moraldeficiency]

Of course he does.

 

[JewishHobbit]

FREAKIN AWESOME HECK SAUCE!!!!

I've been kinda looking forward to this event for a little while but that cover and description has me more stoked than anything that's come before it! WOW!

 

[runawayboulder]

If it ain't broke - don't fix it. This is something not practiced at Marvel. I'm all for giving Danny a major push but this is silly....

 

[JewishHobbit]

It says there's a connection. It never says he becomes the Phoenix and covers can never be trusted so you never know.

 

[runawayboulder]

But yet there's a giant Phoenix logo on his chest.....

 

[Sebastos]

Yeah I don't see Danny becoming the host, only discovering that there's a connection between him and the PF like he solicit says. In Chinese mythology the Dragon and Phoenix represent the yin and the yang.

Phoenix being Yin - Darkness, Night, Feminine

Dragon being Yang - Light, Sun, Masculine

Danny, as we know, got his power from a mystical dragon. So this is a logical reason and and great choice, will be interesting to see how they connect the two.

 

[Sebastos]

Also i'd like to say that cover is just ****ing awesome. Deodato's work is always fantastic.

 

[Havok83]

I noticed IF was wearing a variation of Jean's costume and I was wondering if it was just a coincidence

 

[runawayboulder]

He's had the white costume since New Avengers relaunched. The cover just swapped out the dragon symbol for a phoenix.

 

[Havok83]

 

[bored]

As long as there isn't some stupid ret-con where it turns out that Shou-Lou is himself secretly the Phoenix, I'll be happy.