Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event

[Sebastos]

Yep, he got the white costume ever since he got teleported to that white realm with the Eye of Agamotto:

 

[MilkmanDan]

If it's between steve and scott that's an easy choice for logan.

I don't know. After Schism Scott and Logan aren't in the best of terms. Still, it'll feel odd to see him choose an Avenger over an X-Man if that indeed happens.

Wolverine will side with the X-Men (or has he already; I'm behind...) but I'd trust Steve over Scott any day of the week.

Who wouldn't? He's the frigging Captain America after all. But still, Steve is a friend while Scott is family.

 

[Sebastos]

Got this from another board, the phoenix and the dragon are indeed connected:

 

[moraldeficiency]

I don't know. After Schism Scott and Logan aren't in the best of terms. Still, it'll feel odd to see him choose an Avenger over an X-Man if that indeed happens.


Who wouldn't? He's the frigging Captain America after all. But still, Steve is a friend while Scott is family.

The right call in any situation is to go with captain ****ing america, doubly so if the other guy is scott ****ing Summers. Especially if you're logan, he's been acting much smarter and better recently why break the trend?

 

[MilkmanDan]

The right call in any situation is to go with captain ****ing america, doubly so if the other guy is scott ****ing Summers. Especially if you're logan, he's been acting much smarter and better recently why break the trend?

Of course the smart money is on Cap. To win the fight and to be morally right because he's the embodyment of all things good and heroic and Cyke has always been a flawed hero at best and an anti-hero at worst. But to me this isn't a question of the head but of the heart. I find it hard to imagine Wolverine siding with an outsider against a fellow X-Man. Even if that outsider is as righteous as Supeman, Optimus Prime and Atticus Finch all put together. But I guess if they go for the "I'm doing this for his own good"-angle, it might work.

 

[Havok83]

People really need to stop looking at this as an issue of Scott Summers vs Steve Rogers bc this issue is bigger than both of them.

 

[moraldeficiency]

People really need to stop looking at this as an issue of Scott Summers vs Steve Rogers bc this issue is bigger than both of them.

Nah it's the classic future catastrophe trying to be averted by punching people situation or just your standard monday for the X-Men. It'll come down to who do you trust your future with Scott Summer's decision or captain america. It's a really easy call.

Cap isn't an outsider though, he and logan have a lot more in common than he and scott and get along much better. We'll see what the catalyst is but I could complete see some X-Men not just toeing the line cause some future person tells them to.

 

[Havok83]

Cap is an outsider when it comes to the mutant community. He has bigger things to worry about than them as they have been a non-issue to him and I doubt they will remain off the backburner for long.

 

[runawayboulder]

I don't know why everybody seems to think that Cap is going to be the "good guy" in this scenario. Marvel has developed a habit of writing him terribly in big spots like this. Don't be shocked if Scott becomes a sympathetic figure here.

 

[JewishHobbit]

You know, I'll be totally stoked if Bendis somehow had the costume change planned and was just waiting for now to explain it. Dread and others from day one has been criticising the look for being too much like a Phoenix costume. I'm wondering if that was always the intent.

 

[runawayboulder]

He'll say that he had it planned all along but chances are that's probably bulls**t.

 

[MilkmanDan]

Cap isn't an outsider though, he and logan have a lot more in common than he and scott and get along much better.

It comes down to what I said about Cap being a friend and Cyke being family. Logan likes Steve (just like everyone else) but loves Scott. So yes, Cap is an outsider. Now, I'm sure it can be written in a believable way, but the very idea of an "Avengers vs X-Men" story with Logan on the Avengers side rubs me the wrong way.

 

[BoredGuy]

well maybe logan will make a rational decision based on the events and evidence presented in the story.


lol, now wouldn't that be novel.

 

[Sebastos]

Official press release for New Avengers #25:

As the Phoenix Force continues its crash course towards Earth during the blockbuster comic event of the year, Avengers Vs. X-Men, Iron Fist learns that he has a shocking connection to the all-powerful embodiment of rebirth and destruction! But what does that mean for his team? Find out in New Avengers #25 from the blockbuster creative team of Brian Michael Bendis & Mike Deodato, available in comic shops worldwide and on the Marvel Comics app this April!

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=36479

And cover to #2:

 

[JewishHobbit]

The random group fight covers do nothing for me. I hate generic covers.

 

[MilkmanDan]

well maybe logan will make a rational decision based on the events and evidence presented in the story.


lol, now wouldn't that be novel.

t: Well, now you're just being silly.

 

[moraldeficiency]

It comes down to what I said about Cap being a friend and Cyke being family. Logan likes Steve (just like everyone else) but loves Scott. So yes, Cap is an outsider. Now, I'm sure it can be written in a believable way, but the very idea of an "Avengers vs X-Men" story with Logan on the Avengers side rubs me the wrong way.

I don't think logan sees it like that. I don't see him thinking I'm family with all mutants even the ones I hate. I mean I'm irish. Guess what? I hate some micks. I'm sure there are some mutants that wouldn't just side with another mutant just because. Especially when you just got done almost fighting to the death with one cause he was using children to kill people.

Logan and Steve are both military weapons, both men out of time, both soldiers in a way. Also logan actually respects steve. As for scott, all they have in common is both are mutants with similar tastes in tail.

Just saying you know the X-Men are gonna be in the wrong on this because X-Men are pretty stupid when it comes to blindly following anyone if they start with "listen I'm from the future" and maybe for once logan will wise up. There's a high probability that whomever puts the X-Men against the avengers is in fact trying to kill hope though trickery and that the only way hope will live is if the avengers aren't destroyed. I could be wrong but I see that situation as likely and wolverine has been making too many good decisions to start going the other way.

 

[slim_summers]

I don't know why everybody seems to think that Cap is going to be the "good guy" in this scenario. Marvel has developed a habit of writing him terribly in big spots like this. Don't be shocked if Scott becomes a sympathetic figure here.

I love Cap (doesn't everyone?) but frankly I'd rather this than the more likely alternative, which is making Scott even less likeable than they already have. Marvel haven't shown a great track record of keeping things entirely neutral in terms of who's "right" and who's "wrong" in these superhero vs superhero splits. So it would be nice for someone at Marvel to remember that Cyke may be a flawed hero but he still should be the epitome of selfless good. Reading a few issues from the '70s wouldn't hurt...

And I agree - Wolverine siding with the Avengers against the X-Men doesn't sit well at all, and would likely come across as contrived just to generate additional conflict for the sake of it.

 

[MilkmanDan]

I don't think logan sees it like that. I don't see him thinking I'm family with all mutants even the ones I hate. I mean I'm irish. Guess what? I hate some micks. I'm sure there are some mutants that wouldn't just side with another mutant just because. Especially when you just got done almost fighting to the death with one cause he was using children to kill people.

Logan and Steve are both military weapons, both men out of time, both soldiers in a way. Also logan actually respects steve. As for scott, all they have in common is both are mutants with similar tastes in tail.

It's not a mutant thing. It's an X-Men thing. Before Logan found his way to Xavier's House of Second Chances he was lost; angry at the world and himself. The X-Men gave him not just a worthy cause but a home and a family. And for all their personality clashes, he and Cyclops grew to love each other like brothers, even if that love is often hidden beneath superficial layer of snarky bickering and one-upmanship.

 

[moraldeficiency]

It's not a mutant thing. It's an X-Men thing. Before Logan found his way to Xavier's House of Second Chances he was lost; angry at the world and himself. The X-Men gave him not just a worthy cause but a home and a family. And for all their personality clashes, he and Cyclops grew to love each other like brothers, even if that love is often hidden beneath superficial layer of snarky bickering and one-upmanship.

I would agree but it was xavier that took him in, scott's always just been a rival. When did they love each other?

 

[MilkmanDan]

I would agree but it was xavier that took him in, scott's always just been a rival. When did they love each other?

The love grew over the years. I know a lot of people concentrate on the rivalry between the two, but the truth is that it hasn't (in terms of the 616 comics) been a relevant sub-plot since the 70's. There was a mutual dislike and distrust when Logan joined the team. However they later grew to grudgingly respect and even deeply care for each other. The notion of the Cyclops and Wolverine antipathy is one that is mostly based on secondary sources like the cartoon and movies that rehash the the rivalry between the two. There's a deep, but often understated, emotional connection between Scott and Logan and I hate it when writers fail to understand that.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The love grew over the years. I know a lot of people concentrate on the rivalry between the two, but the truth is that it hasn't (in terms of the 616 comics) been a relevant sub-plot since the 70's. There was a mutual dislike and distrust when Logan joined the team. However they later grew to grudgingly respect and even deeply care for each other. The notion of the Cyclops and Wolverine antipathy is one that is mostly based on secondary sources like the cartoon and movies that rehash the the rivalry between the two. There's a deep, but often understated, emotional connection between Scott and Logan and I hate it when writers fail to understand that.

I can't think of an issue where scott or logan loved each other. A grudging respect sure, but love? Not even in fanfic.

Where are you getting this from? What moments have made you think of this? Cause I can think of a million examples of them not liking each other at all, or even practically trying to kill each other but love? I think you're projecting more than basing on anything that's actually happened.

 

[MilkmanDan]

I can't think of an issue where scott or logan loved each other. A grudging respect sure, but love? Not even in fanfic.

Where are you getting this from? What moments have made you think of this? Cause I can think of a million examples of them not liking each other at all, or even practically trying to kill each other but love? I think you're projecting more than basing on anything that's actually happened.

In fanfic they're actually having sex, but that's beside the point. My point is, I think if one looks at their interaction without the preconceived notion of the so-called rivalry one is unlikely to see them as anything else than close friends/family members. Any scene of them arguing is easily outnumbered by scenes of them getting along, or Logan stating how much he cares for the annoying poindexter. Heck, there's even an on panel example of Logan acting on pure animal instinct licking Cyke's face like a dog. Seriously, I can't help but feel that the only people who still see Cyclops and Wolverine as rivals rather than friends/brothers are illiterate imbeciles or people who stopped reading comics around 1979.

 

[moraldeficiency]

In fanfic they're actually having sex, but that's beside the point. My point is, I think if one looks at their interaction without the preconceived notion of the so-called rivalry one is unlikely to see them as anything else than close friends/family members. Any scene of them arguing is easily outnumbered by scenes of them getting along, or Logan stating how much he cares for the annoying poindexter. Heck, there's even an on panel example of Logan acting on pure animal instinct licking Cyke's face like a dog. Seriously, I can't help but feel that the only people who still see Cyclops and Wolverine as rivals rather than friends/brothers are illiterate imbeciles orpeople who stopped reading comics around 1979.

I think the point may be that you know about and have read fanfic with them making sweet sweet mutie love and that's probably coloring your view.

That feral wolverine thing was just weird.

Show me an example or it's all in your head. But thanks for the illiterate imbecile remark I'd counter with something about misplaced pent up sexual frustrations in the projector based solely on wish fulfillment in defiance of reality but that would just be name calling wouldn't it? I mean better and more creative name calling, but name calling all the same.

Grudging respect I'll give you but since they just recently split the mutant group by almost fighting to death I'm gonna say you're kinda outmatched here with the love vs. hate thing.

 

[runawayboulder]

Heck, there's even an on panel example of Logan acting on pure animal instinct licking Cyke's face like a dog.

That feral wolverine thing was just weird.

It happened in Wolverine vol 1 #101. He did it to revive him as part of his newly extreme animal instincts.