Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event

[JewishHobbit]

The problem is that while the members of New Avengers all have close ties, Bendis never plays off that. They all just have a past with each other and that's it, off to fight HAMMER and Osborn again. Most writers would delve into their relationships and what makes them tick when around the other. That's why New Avengers is an inferior book.

He uses it some but not near enough. That's partially why I'm hoping this team stays in tact once he leaves because for as much as I like Bendis' take on the book, there's other writers who could make it amazing.

I just have a feeling that the entire Avengers line is being revamped once he leaves and I hate that. I don't mind Avengers getting revamped but New Avengers is such a good roster that, in the right hands, could be the top Marvel book again.

 

[runawayboulder]

He uses it some but not near enough. That's partially why I'm hoping this team stays in tact once he leaves because for as much as I like Bendis' take on the book, there's other writers who could make it amazing.

I just have a feeling that the entire Avengers line is being revamped once he leaves and I hate that. I don't mind Avengers getting revamped but New Avengers is such a good roster that, in the right hands, could be the top Marvel book again.

Once Bendis goes, Marvel is going to make sure that Avengers remains as the premier title of the franchise. New Avengers, if it sticks around, will most likely always be stuck at number 2 status. Personally, if they don't make it an actual street level team, I'd rather see it dumped in favor of a West Coast Avengers relaunch or the return of a New Warriors book.

The writer is the key. Marvel undoubtedly will put a big name writer on the main Avengers book and rising star Rick Remender is getting a lot of buzz already on Secret Avengers even though his run hasn't even started yet. The writer following Bendis will have to try something radical or against the grain to keep up with the revitalization of Avengers and Secret Avengers.

JH, you as a big NA fan could be in a lose-lose situation. They aren't exactly "New" anymore, that adjective was appropriate on the heels of Disassembled when the main Avengers team was defunct. Those days are long gone now and the New Avengers could be left out in the cold.

 

[Sebastos]

Probably something with Hope finally Phoenix-ing out, causing everyone to put aside their squabbles and work together to at least contain her as a threat.

Hope is just one of five characters confirmed to have a key role in all of this so we'll see. Others include Scarlet Witch and Iron Fist:

Alonso: All I can say is that Iron Fist -- and, indeed, K'un-Lun -- will play a key role in 2012's "Avengers Vs. X-Men." Danny Rand's profile in the Marvel Universe is about to get a whole lot bigger. I've loved this character ever from his first appearance in "Marvel Premiere" #15 to Ed Brubaker, Matt Fraction and David Aja's masterful handling of him in "The Immortal Iron Fist." If you're dying for your Iron Fist fix, check out "Defenders" #6.

I'm left wondering what K'un-Lun's inclusion will turn out to be, possible HQ for the Avengers or something more? Can't wait to find out.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Hope is just one of five characters confirmed to have a key role in all of this so we'll see. Others include Scarlet Witch and Iron Fist:



I'm left wondering what K'un-Lun's inclusion will turn out to be, possible HQ for the Avengers or something more? Can't wait to find out.

I bet they stick Hope there...maybe the monks can help her keep the Phoenix force in check or whatever....

 

[JewishHobbit]

Once Bendis goes, Marvel is going to make sure that Avengers remains as the premier title of the franchise. New Avengers, if it sticks around, will most likely always be stuck at number 2 status. Personally, if they don't make it an actual street level team, I'd rather see it dumped in favor of a West Coast Avengers relaunch or the return of a New Warriors book.

The writer is the key. Marvel undoubtedly will put a big name writer on the main Avengers book and rising star Rick Remender is getting a lot of buzz already on Secret Avengers even though his run hasn't even started yet. The writer following Bendis will have to try something radical or against the grain to keep up with the revitalization of Avengers and Secret Avengers.

JH, you as a big NA fan could be in a lose-lose situation. They aren't exactly "New" anymore, that adjective was appropriate on the heels of Disassembled when the main Avengers team was defunct. Those days are long gone now and the New Avengers could be left out in the cold.

Honestly, I'd be happy if they made a few small changes and promote the team as their own team, not an Avenger team. I've never liked the "New" part of the name from the beginning.

Hope is just one of five characters confirmed to have a key role in all of this so we'll see. Others include Scarlet Witch and Iron Fist:

What? When was this revealed about Iron Fist? This is the first I'm hearing about it.

 

[Sebastos]

I bet they stick Hope there...maybe the monks can help her keep the Phoenix force in check or whatever....

I can see it now.

What? When was this revealed about Iron Fist? This is the first I'm hearing about it.

In the December 23rd edition of AXEL-IN-CHARGE:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=36090

He says he has to stop talking about it, but this is the third time he's said Danny will have a big role haha.

 

[bored]

Works for me. Iron Fist has been one of my favorite characters since Brubaker's run on "Immortal IF".

 

[Sebastos]

Yeah, Danny's really risen as a fan favorite these last few years and of course Brubaker and Fraction's run on Immortal Iron Fist is still regarded as one of the best. This is definitely his time.

 

[Sebastos]

Cover for #1:

 

[JewishHobbit]

Man, they just cannot get Angel right can they?

 

[bored]

Beast and Wolverine back on the Avengers side. Interesting.

 

[runawayboulder]

These are the worst promos/covers ever. They make ZERO sense. It makes me NOT want to buy the comic.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Beast and Wolverine back on the Avengers side. Interesting.

You would think or at least hope a few of the mutants would side with the Avengers.

 

[Havok83]

You would think or at least hope a few of the mutants would side with the Avengers.

Why would or should they side with the Avengers? Unless they have strong ties to the Avengers like Justice and Firestar, I expect most of them to stick with the X-men as they should

 

[moraldeficiency]

Why would or should they side with the Avengers? Unless they have strong ties to the Avengers like Justice and Firestar, I expect most of them to stick with the X-men as they should

Maybe they don't believe the avengers would like kill hope or whatever. Maybe they think the X-Men have become to militaristic in their actions and choices. Maybe they feel they're being suckered to fight the avengers by a manipulator behind the scenes which has been the case for 99.99% of all team battles. Maybe they just think cyclops is a dick.

There are a lot of good reasons.

 

[Doomed_hero]

i expect wolverine and beast to be torn but i really hope this does not split up the jean grey school as i see some there on cyclps side, I have really been enjoying that comic and the last thing we need is yet another overblown crappy event ruining a good book. I am so tired of it.

 

[bored]

I guess we need to get a better sense of what exactly the Avengers want to do regarding Hope/Phoenix to see why Beast or Wolverine would side with them. Bad blood aside, you'd think they'd generally prefer to defend her.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Chances are it'll be something like this...

Future person appears. "X-Men, in the future the Avengers are mean to mutants!"

X-Men: "Oh noes, let's not talk let's just attack them cause future person said to!"

Avengers: "really?"

X-Men: "yes, really, this is how the X-Men operate, we rely 87% of our tactics based on people from different futures telling us what to do"

Fight is massive, both sides take losses.

Future person: "Haha, I was really bad all this time, now you've ensured my future happens! Haha."

X-Men: "Oh noes, how could we have ever saw this outcome?"

Avengers: "really?"

They band together and beat the bad guy.

 

[Havok83]

Maybe they don't believe the avengers would like kill hope or whatever. Maybe they think the X-Men have become to militaristic in their actions and choices. Maybe they feel they're being suckered to fight the avengers by a manipulator behind the scenes which has been the case for 99.99% of all team battles. Maybe they just think cyclops is a dick.

There are a lot of good reasons.

People may hate Cyclops today (me included) but the bottom line is that he does have mutantkind's best interest at heart. He has done alot for the race in the last several years inspite of the shady methods he has employed. He cares about what happens to the race and has been fighting for their survival since deciMation. Plus most of them were there to witness Hope save all their lives in Second Coming so they have reason to back her up

The Avengers? They care about themselves and pretty much have stayed away as mutants have been persecuted and discriminated. They failed to do much in the way of helping them following M-Day. Plus look at the way they handled themselves in Civil War? They were hunting each other down like animals and destroying buildings and risking the lives of innocents in the process. When Wolverine and Cyclops split recently in Schism, it was under very amicable terms and the X-men handled themsleves MUCH better than the Avengers did. They arent anything special to look up to and this comes across as them wanting to control things, and one which they dont understand nor directly concerns them.

If I were a mutant, Id trust the mutants to have a better handle on my well-being and future and not the Avengers whom, mutantkind has been an afterthought. They dont know who Hope is. They definetly dont have the experience and knowledge when it coems to the Phoenix Force or her training since Second Coming. The X-men are best equipped to watch over her as they have been.

 

[runawayboulder]

Chances are it'll be something like this...

Future person appears. "X-Men, in the future the Avengers are mean to mutants!"

X-Men: "Oh noes, let's not talk let's just attack them cause future person said to!"

Avengers: "really?"

X-Men: "yes, really, this is how the X-Men operate, we rely 87% of our tactics based on people from different futures telling us what to do"

Fight is massive, both sides take losses.

Future person: "Haha, I was really bad all this time, now you've ensured my future happens! Haha."

X-Men: "Oh noes, how could we have ever saw this outcome?"

Avengers: "really?"

They band together and beat the bad guy.

So far that's pretty much the plot of X-Sanction.

 

[Doomed_hero]

honestly as for beast and even Logan, they would protect the X-Men if the Avengers attacked even if the Avengers had reason. If the X-men attacked the Avengers they would try to talk both sides out of it. These tend to be rational people in there own comics, but when these events happen, they loose al rationale of trying to find a peaceful solution and just turn into idiots

 

[moraldeficiency]

People may hate Cyclops today (me included) but the bottom line is that he does have mutantkind's best interest at heart. He has done alot for the race in the last several years inspite of the shady methods he has employed. He cares about what happens to the race and has been fighting for their survival since deciMation. Plus most of them were there to witness Hope save all their lives in Second Coming so they have reason to back her up

The Avengers? They care about themselves and pretty much have stayed away as mutants have been persecuted and discriminated. They failed to do much in the way of helping them following M-Day. Plus look at the way they handled themselves in Civil War? They were hunting each other down like animals and destroying buildings and risking the lives of innocents in the process. When Wolverine and Cyclops split recently in Schism, it was under very amicable terms and the X-men handled themsleves MUCH better than the Avengers did. They arent anything special to look up to and this comes across as them wanting to control things, and one which they dont understand nor directly concerns them.

If I were a mutant, Id trust the mutants to have a better handle on my well-being and future and not the Avengers whom, mutantkind has been an afterthought. They dont know who Hope is. They definetly dont have the experience and knowledge when it coems to the Phoenix Force or her training since Second Coming. The X-men are best equipped to watch over her as they have been.

Cyclops has the mutants best interests at heart the same way hitler helped out aryans. Wrong is still wrong and you side against your own group when they're in the wrong or you're just a useless follower. X-Men are supposed to actually be heroes.

Mutant whining about their survival has always happened but as a basic human evolution they should know they don't need to fight to save mutants. People will become mutants with or without their help. Less closed off nonsense more just assimilating with people.

Why would they assume the avengers are gonna kill hope? Do they have a long child killing history? Future person says so and they all jump? Couldn't a few of them show some level of intelligence?

Nah, the X-Men haven't had the best showing of handling such things. Maybe people like Reed Richards and Hank Pym would be better with coming up with solutions even though they aren't mutants. If I was a mutant after seeing how the X-men handle mutant problems I'd get the hell away from san fran and xaviers school right quick. Actually have a nice life without sentinel attacks and school explosions every day. I'd also smile and actually enjoy having freaking superpowers and not whine about it like laser eyes make my life worse. So I'd do the exact opposite of every mutant. Not group together so someone can take us out in one hit and not whine about being a superhuman.

 

[Havok83]

Cyclops has the mutants best interests at heart the same way hitler helped out aryans. Wrong is still wrong and you side against your own group when they're in the wrong or you're just a useless follower. X-Men are supposed to actually be heroes.

The Cyclops/Hitler analogy doesnt work bc he is NOTHING like Hitler. You cant really compare. Cyclops isnt a racist and isnt out and trying to kill or hate anyone that isnt a mutant The worst he's done was forming X-force but he ended that and hasnt been doing anything questionable since. Besides only a small few were even involved with X-force. The vast majority of the X-men dont subscribe to those methods and are true heroes.

Mutant whining about their survival has always happened but as a basic human evolution they should know they don't need to fight to save mutants. People will become mutants with or without their help. Less closed off nonsense more just assimilating with people.

That was true in the past but a little thing called M-day happened which wiped out the vast majority of their numbers. Since then they have needed to fight for survival. Even now that new mutants are forming post-Second Coming, its happening at a very slow rate, and nowhere near fast enough to replenish the numbers which were diminished. Their survival is a constant issue bc they as a race arent where they were several years ago.

Why would they assume the avengers are gonna kill hope? Do they have a long child killing history? Future person says so and they all jump? Couldn't a few of them show some level of intelligence?

No one said anything about killing Hope. We dont even know what will happen to her or what they have planned yet.

Nah, the X-Men haven't had the best showing of handling such things. Maybe people like Reed Richards and Hank Pym would be better with coming up with solutions even though they aren't mutants. If I was a mutant after seeing how the X-men handle mutant problems I'd get the hell away from san fran and xaviers school right quick. Actually have a nice life without sentinel attacks and school explosions every day. I'd also smile and actually enjoy having freaking superpowers and not whine about it like laser eyes make my life worse. So I'd do the exact opposite of every mutant. Not group together so someone can take us out in one hit and not whine about being a superhuman.

The X-men handled their split MUCH better than the Avengers did. Thats a fact.

Maybe in the ideal world but most of the people that joined the X-men is bc things dont work out like that. They sought the X-men for sanctuary and acceptance bc they werent getting it in their everyday lives bc of the hate and prejudice around them. Others joined bc they were a danger to those around them bc they didnt not fully understand their abilities and came to learn more about themselves.

 

[Doomed_hero]

they are not basic evoultion anymore, Mday made them a indangered race and then Norman Osborn tried to inslave them. Cyclops cut them off so he could protect them, and now the world is reupping there sentenal program and hunting mutants. Cyclops goes overboard sometimes, but his motives are always thinking about his race first.

 

[Havok83]

they are not basic evoultion anymore, Mday made them a indangered race and then Norman Osborn tried to inslave them. Cyclops cut them off so he could protect them, and now the world is reupping there sentenal program and hunting mutants. Cyclops goes overboard sometimes, but his motives are always thinking about his race first.

same here and now that he let half of them split off and start the school up again, Im not seeing him as so bad as their is an alternative if mutants dont necesarily approve of his methods or Utopia as a concept. I think he has an awesome system the way he has the team structured now between the Extinction team to handle the big threats, Gen Hope for the new mutants in training, the Street team, to handle smaller threats, New Mutants to handle loose ends and it all works quite well. He's admitted his faults, scaled back and has tried to change and do better. He's shown quite a bit of humility lately which has been good for the character and why some are more apt to have faith in him now. I dont see him as the arrogant dictator he was following Manifest Destiny anymore