Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event

[TheCorpulent1]

Magneto warning Cyclops that he's starting to sound like him was both funny and sad. Poor Cyclops. He's so terrible now.

 

[Havok83]

AvX #1 clearly showed him as unreasonably obsessed. He's not evil, he's just on the path to Crazytown.

He's passionate. Cable was alot worse in X-Sanction. He was fueled by the dark future that he saw which was allegedly sparked by the Avengers taking Hope out and her not being around to save it. Cable warned Scott that the Avengers will eventually come looking for her and war would come. He showed him a vision of whats to come as the end result of that happening. Scott let it go and didnt act preemptively as Cable had, but sure enough the Avengers came for Hope and it kinda seems like the path to that dark future is starting right here. I also feel that plays a role in why he feels he needs to protect Hope at all cost bc the last few years since MC will have been for nothing. I liked that final scene. He made a promise to his son and it set the stage for why he acted the way he did in #1

Magneto warning Cyclops that he's starting to sound like him was both funny and sad. Poor Cyclops. He's so terrible now.

until Scott starts waging war on humanity, hating and killing them to promote mutant supremacy, he will never be quite like Magneto; not even close.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Warnings from the future never sit right with me. People too often wind up like Cable (obsessed with Apocalypse for years to the point that he was basically ready to kill anything standing between him and Apocalypse) and Bishop (a previously decent, honorable man turned straight-up sociopath by his obsession with murdering Hope). Cyclops seems to be tumbling down that same misguided rabbit hole of trying so hard to prevent a possible, constantly shifting future that he's losing everything that once made him a decent person.

 

[Havok83]

He trusted Cable before and it got him to save mutantkind and the fate of the X-men in Second Coming. I think he has valid reasons to trust him again on this one.

You also have to remember that when Cable was a baby, he was forced to give him up and send him into the future. Thats a decision thats weighed heavily on him over the years. He failed and couldnt protect him. We saw a flashback of that in MC when he made the decision to give Hope to Cable. He did his best to protect them from a distance, trying to stop Bishop and then sending X-force into the future to help them. In SC, Cable came back with Hoep and told him to protect her and he's reinforced that again here. I think protecting and helping Hope is personal for him and in a way its bc of his relationship with Cable. He's a father who made a promise to his son and he's determined not to fail or let him down again

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Every fundamentalist has reasons for being a fundamentalist. I still find it pretty impossible to sympathize with him, especially since he's 'protecting' Hope by smothering her at this point.

 

[Havok83]

Ahhh its nothing she hasnt faced before. Scott and the rest of the X-men have dealt with worse training in the Danger Room at an earlier age. When she's being attacked by a non-mutant and she has no gun on hand, she'll know what to do and remember the lesson Scott gave her. The point of that lesson was to not rely on her powers and resist the urge to use them. When she got angry, she displayed the Phoenix raptor and blasted him. She needs to learn to control that now and not let her temper unleash it. Best to learn that now in a controlled training situation than on the battlefield where all hell will break loose

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's not just the training. I'm talking about the stuff from AvX #0, too. He keeps trying to put her on total lockdown when she clearly needs independence, like any normal teenager. Classic parenting mistakes mixed in with all this pressure about saving mutantkind and his new, hardcore militant philosophy. It's all totally gonna blow up in his face, and it seems the only one who can't see it is him.

 

[Franklin Richards]

If she just joined the Future Foundation and hung out with Leech and Franklin, she'd be alright. She can date Alex Powers.

 

[Havok83]

Well I do think she has freedom and indepedence. She is leader of Gen Hope and travels around the world without his direct supervision. I do think he puts too much pressure on her and doesnt do much to answer her questions when she raises them, but at the same time he is worried about protecting her. Running off at night, being a vigilante without backup is dangerous, although she's not as fragile as he might act like she is. He's worried about the danger that may fall to her but its the people she fights that seem to be in the most danger. I think her problem is she can be a bit too hardcore. She was beating the members of the Serpent Society to a bloody pulp and may have killed that one guy had Scott not pulled her off him. She needs to learn to show more restraint. She's too impulsive to just be running off on her own like that

Its funny bc I think Hope and Scott are alot alike in many ways. She rides her team pretty hard and many of them dont even like her. Laurie pulled a gun on her bc she felt Hope was like a dictator and Kenji tried to kill her bc he's sick of her influence. In AvX #0, she blasted Scott hard with an optic blast when he was talking to hr calm and rationally. At this stage in her life, she's already leading her own team and has problably faced more than he has at the same age. I think the two have an interesting dynamic. Both of them are under a whole lot of pressure. She as the mutant messiah and he as the unofficial mutant ambassador of the world. She's claimed to hate him at times but ultimately trusts and depends on him. She could have left Utopia any time she wanted to but she chooses to stand by him bc she beleives in him and his methods. Yes he rides her hard but she understands its bc she is this mutant messiah. In Gen Hope/Regenesis, she revealed that she feels that if she isnt and if she isnt prepared for whats to come, then her father and everyone else will have died for nothing. Scott can help prepare her and its why she chose to stay with him rather than go with the Wolveine school which is way too passive for her personality and goals

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

So from what I gather, the writing of issue one was just as lazy and illogical as the writing in Marvel's past 5 events - which everyone hated - but for some reason you all liked this issue anyway?

"everyone hated"?

I didn't care much for House of M, but Civil War, WWH, Invasion, and Siege all entertained the hell out of me.

<shrugs> .

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Because he rightly assumed that Cyclops wouldn't see reason. That's what being a leader's about: anticipating your opponent's move and being prepared to counter it. Even so, it was a "just in case" move. His first action was still an earnest attempt to talk things out with Cyclops and convince him that it's in everyone's best interest to keep Hope and the Phoenix Force away from each other rather than risk the whole planet on the vague, unsubstantiated hope (no pun intended) that Hope + Phoenix = mutantkind's salvation. Cyclops is basically in religious fundamentalist territory right now. No one can touch his precious messiah because he believes she will save mutants, and anyone who says otherwise must be struck down.

But you have to admit; Cap showing up with an army is essentially like me walking up to you, casually swinging a baseball bat, and telling you to get out of the way. It's kind of an "or else" attitute.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I always thought the X-Men's edge over the Avengers is the number of telepaths that they have, as well as having Magneto on their team right now (who is one of the most powerful mutants on Earth). However, if Hulk rejoins the Avengers, I can see the green goliath causing alot of problems for the X-Men.

Considering he already beat them all by himself in WWH.

 

[The Morningstar]

WWH was basically fan fiction though. Dr Strange should have just dumped him into some obscure dimension or Sentry should have just tossed him back into space

 

[Havok83]

This event proves that they havent learned their lesson. Captain America [blackout]wanting to throw Hope out in space reaks of what the Illuminati did to Hulk[/blackout]. Look how well that turned out for them. I guess next year we will get the World War Phoenix as the main event

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

WWH was basically fan fiction though. Dr Strange should have just dumped him into some obscure dimension or Sentry should have just tossed him back into space

Meh. Strange HAS done that before, and Hulk HAS been left in space. Although Hulk survived both, they were effective in temporarily removing him as a threat.

But then we wouldn't have had a full-issue slobber knocker t:

 

[runawayboulder]

This event proves that they havent learned their lesson. Captain America [blackout]wanting to throw Hope out in space reaks of what the Illuminati did to Hulk[/blackout]. Look how well that turned out for them. I guess next year we will get the World War Phoenix as the main event

You and I must have read a totally different comic because AvX #1 never mentions Cap wanting to throw Hope into space. He wants to put her into protective custody.

 

[Havok83]

You and I must have read a totally different comic because AvX #1 never mentions Cap wanting to throw Hope into space. He wants to put her into protective custody.

That's bc it wasn't revealed yet hence the spoiler warnings. New Avengers 24 shows him rallying the Avengers and planning the arrival on Utopia. He tells them they need to apprehend her and take her off the planet. This tie in takes place during the events if #1 between the scene where Cap goes to the JG
school and Utopia

 

[The Morningstar]

Meh. Strange HAS done that before, and Hulk HAS been left in space. Although Hulk survived both, they were effective in temporarily removing him as a threat.

But then we wouldn't have had a full-issue slobber knocker t:

Very true. Sometimes PIS is a good thing Although i must say, I thought Planet Hulk was better.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Very true. Sometimes PIS is a good thing Although i must say, I thought Planet Hulk was better.

Agreed.

 

[kguillou]

That's bc it wasn't revealed yet hence the spoiler warnings. New Avengers 24 shows him rallying the Avengers and planning the arrival on Utopia. He tells them they need to apprehend her and take her off the planet. This tie in takes place during the events if #1 between the scene where Cap goes to the JG
school and Utopia

Wow really? That's their plan??

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Still sounds like protective custody to me. Just not on Earth. I doubt Cap is going to cast her adrift on a spaceship, all alone with no way to return home the way the Illuminati did the Hulk. There's a reason Cap wasn't part of the Illuminati to begin with; he wouldn't have stood for most of the crap they did, including that incident with the Hulk.

But you have to admit; Cap showing up with an army is essentially like me walking up to you, casually swinging a baseball bat, and telling you to get out of the way. It's kind of an "or else" attitute.

It's a seasoned veteran's attitude. He kept the army hidden and out of sight, hoping not to have to use them, and tried pretty hard to talk to Cyclops first. Cyclops just wasn't having it and then threw the first punch. Would it have somehow been better if Cap walked in stupidly assuming Cyclops would just roll over and accept whatever he said with no plan B? Pretty big oversight for a guy most people consider the best leader and strategic mind in the Marvel universe.

 

[The Morningstar]

They want to kick Hope off the planet? Hmmm what happened the last time they did that to a powerful character?

 

[Havok83]

I put the page in spoiler warnings for those who want to view it. I love how Thing doesnt agree with the plan.

Spoiler

Still sounds like protective custody to me. Just not on Earth. I doubt Cap is going to cast her adrift on a spaceship, all alone with no way to return home the way the Illuminati did the Hulk. There's a reason Cap wasn't part of the Illuminati to begin with; he wouldn't have stood for most of the crap they did, including that incident with the Hulk.

He may mean well but it just goes to show is ignorance and lack of experience with this thing. The Phoenix travels intergalactily and it only takes matter of minutes for it to go from space to anywhere in the galaxy including Earth. Taking Hope to space isnt going to help. If anything, its bringing her closer to the PF. With that power, Hope will just come back to Earth which is home to her. Its not a parasite and not going to take over. It forms a symbitoic relationship with its host. What the heck is Hope going to do out in space? She's going to return to her friends and family. When she does return, she'll most likely be pissed off at the Avengers for what they've done to her, and with that much power in her possession, they better pray she can control her rage and not annihilate them

 

[hippie_hunter]

Since when did Black Panther rejoin the Avengers?

 

[THANOSRULES]

Why didnt they just invite Scott to a table to discuss ideas.

Or offer to have her go with Hope to be her personal guard.