Batgirl 'Batgirl' movie? - Part 1

[Abudefduf]

As Oracle,she's quite amazing and inspiring. A paraplegic who overcome her disability, and used her sheer brainpower to become to go-to tech/information hub of DC universe heroes. She commanded far more respect (from fans and within the DC hero fraternity) in a wheelchair than she did wearing yellow boots.

What's stopping them from making a movie where Barbara is still Batgirl, yet she already displays those qualities and skills you mentioned?
As for your claim that she is a mediocre fighter... huh? I'm sorry but that's demonstrably false.

Being Batgirl and Oracle are both part of Babs history. There is no versus, Oracle is nothing without her being Batgirl first. One leads to another

Oracle is Batgirl, she was just forced by the circumstances to continue her crusade FOR JUSTICE! in a different way.

 

[Enlil]

Actress Lindsey Morgan confirmed having auditioned for the role of Batgirl !
https://www.facebook.com/Skriptfr/photos/a.142342515969957.1073741825.139870992883776/765669596970576/?type=3&theater

 

[Silvermoth]

I didn't even know there was a script?

 

[Jordacar]

Actress Lindsey Morgan confirmed having auditioned for the role of Batgirl !
https://www.facebook.com/Skriptfr/photos/a.142342515969957.1073741825.139870992883776/765669596970576/?type=3&theater

She's my #1 choice, no joke

 

[Juan1193]

You said Babs only has a solo because of Cass even though Babs has sold comics without being Batgirl unlike Cass. You made a categorically false statement.

Except it isn't false. Barbara has been around since the 60's, yet never held her own title until 2011? Cassandra was the first Batgirl to hold her own title, and proved to TPTB that Batgirl could sell, not Babs.

And how can you even say Cass hasn't sold comics outside of being Batgirl, when DC hasn't even given her the chance to do so!? She literally just returned for Rebirth, after Didio let up on his ignorant bias, though not entirely.

Her primary gimmick was her ability to beat up people because she was trained by some mook who only her writers considered great. The amount of mental gymnastics her writers had to pull to sell Cain as some Deathstroke level character was truly impressive but they still failed spectacularly.

Spoken like someone who has probably never even read Cass' tenure as Batgirl. If you think that's the reason why she's so revered then I don't know what else to tell you...

Some writer wrote a bad story or two with her? Shocker welcome to comics where garbage stories are written all the time. If Cass folded after one bad writer then she's a shaky character and therefore must be avoided. As for editor, Babs is the one who was paralyzed because the editor wanted it , that can be backed by facts instead of conspiracy theories Cass fans make.

Except it wasn't just one writer, or one or two stories, it was an entire two years and a company wide event of character assassination for Cass. The title that you claimed "failed" spun out of that mess. You're naive if you think fans would willing support a book that furthered an OOC Cassandra. Vol. 2 of Batgirl failed because of DC's inneptivity not because of Cassandra or lack of interest in the character from fans.

She got her book because Babs wasn't avilable. The editorial introduced a new creation and backed her with the Batgirl mantle not because she won some popularity contest. Characters dont neccessarily just get books because they're popular and Cass got hers immediately after creation. Its the same thing as those characters from DCs Dark Matter line or Mother Panic. They had an idea they ,backed said idea, the idea fumbled in the long run they moved on

Cassandra was introduced prior to Batgirl #1 and didn't spin off from some event with an all-star team, so comparing her to NAOH or Young Animal is moot.

Babs New 52 book wasn't cancelled because of sales either so whats your point? But it was influential enough during the Stewart/Tarr era that DC went in to a movement called Batgirling. Its how you got books like Black Canary for example. Cass never acvomplished anything close to that.

They say numbers don't lie...

Batgirl # 1 - 64,296K
Batgirl #73 - 26,536K

Batgirl #1 - 34,404K
Batgirl #6 - 20,747K

Batgirl #1 - 51,670K
Batgirl #24 - 22,695K

Batgirl #1 - 81,489K
Batgirl #52 - 26,492K

Batgirl #1 - 96,177
Batgirl #19 - 18,887

Cassandra's first run started with strong sales but stabilized in the 26K to 28K range, and could have easily made it to 100+ issues before cancellation. Those numbers may not look ideal but it's the best of any of the Batgirl volumes. The second volume is an example of the consequences of character assassination.

The third volume is Stephanie's tenure as Batgirl. While not as strong as Cass's numbers, they're still not the worst Batgirl numbers either. Plus it was a fun book.

Volume 4 & 5 are Barbara's tenure as Batgirl. The high starting numbers are a result of spinning out of a company wide reboot and relaunch respectively. New 52 would have eventually been cancelled before it reached Cass' numbers, unless DC rebooted it again to keep it afloat, like they had already done with issue 35 onwards. New 52 bled readers, as it lost 8k in the span of 2 issues. Rebirth is just pathetic! It'll probably be the first Batgirl comic to sell at 10K since it has 3 more issues solicited and sales for February's issue haven't even been revealed yet.

And for the last time TKJ had nothing to do with Oracle which in turn has nothing to do with Cass or Steph. Babs didn't get crippled to become Oracle and she didn't become Oracle so that we could be blessed with Cass. You keep bringing up Oracle again and again as if it means anything. Babs is Oracle and Batgirl, these are parts of her history and character. They have no correlation with Cass and since WB HAS adapted Oracle multiple times in the past without bothering with other Batgirls confirms it. It doesn't matter if you think Oracle is better than Babsgirl ,it means jacksquat with reference to Cass. You just want her to be Oracle simply because you think it leaves the door open for Cass to be Batgirl. WB is more than welcome to show Babs evolution from Batgirl to Oracle. But it should be done for her character, her arc, her journey.

I like Barbara as Oracle, I don't like her as Batgirl. WB can do whatever they want, but like I said earlier, I'm a patient young man, and I'm well prepared to wait to get the quality versions of each character (Babs as Oracle and Cass as Batgirl).

DC has butchered plenty of characters with bad writing, I've been through this, welcome to the world of comics Cass and they DID undo it anyway.

Yes they did undo it, after fan outcry, but they also shipped her off to limbo and made her off limits to writers that wanted to use her.

Successful minority led book lol, way to make it sound more impressive than it is. The market doesn't care if you're a minority and she was using an established mantle to begin with. These statements say nothing whatsoever. She's a bottom tier character with zero comics to her name without being called Batgirl. A Batgirl book lasted 73 issues not a Cassandra book or an Orphan book.

That's a damn lie and you know it! If that were the case than DC would not be launching all these new imprints, with diversity being a huge selling point, both to the direct market (Wildstorm, Milestone, Young Animal, NAOH) and outside of it (Ink, Zoom, Black). There would not be cries of PC/liberal agenda screamed at books starring females and minorities. There wouldn't be people calling out DC on lack of diversity...etc

Also how would you know if she wouldn't sell outside of Batgirl? DC has never tried! Plus those same arguments could be made about Barbara, since there was never an Oracle book.

By the way Cass has held that record for a good 12 years now, against the likes of Green Lantern (John, Jessica, Simon), Blue Beetle, Firestorm, Atom, Steel, Static...etc. Quite impressive.

Babs on the other hand is published twice monthly in the form of 2 Batgirl books. Almost 50 issues in a mere 2 year period is impressive. But leave it to you to use the natural attirition resulting from having 2 Batgirl books as an indicator of her failings LOL. Either way she's outlasted both Cass and Steph in comics and destroys them in mainstream media. Meanwhile Cass is standing in the background over in Detective.

Lol you do realize BOP is a team book and was recently canceled right? Last issue sold 18K. Only a matter of time until Batgirl is cancelled as well, since it had similar sales. Hmm so much success lmao

Batgirling which I've mentioned was a trend during the Tarr/Stewart era.

Yeah but Cass fans want her to be shot and assaulted so that their girl can be a thing again.

If you think they're going to mess up then why are you intently arguing ? LOL.

Batgirling was a disaster and led to the mess the Batgirl franchise is currently in.

And no, I just want Cass to stop being treated like garbage, just because some biased asshat in charge of DC doesn't like her. Couldn't care less what they do with Barbara. Keep her as Batgirl and give Cass a title as Black Bat or some cool alias (Not Orphan, that name sucks). Fine by me.

I stated a fact, yes they are nobodies next to Babs. That's easily provable. You keep saying that Babs isn't interesting over and over as if anyone but Cass and Steph fans believe it.

Nope. You came in all buthurt because some fans wanted to see Cass (or Stephanie) as Batgirl.

And I listed multiple reasons why I think WB should go with Cass as Batgirl. It's Barbara fans who keep saying the same thing over and over again (OMG she's the most iconic OMG).

 

[LTuser]

I notice, no one's commented on my question of "Why go straight into a batgirl film, when we've still not even SEEN robin....?"

 

[Omegabat]

Except it isn't false. Barbara has been around since the 60's, yet never held her own title until 2011? Cassandra was the first Batgirl to hold her own title, and proved to TPTB that Batgirl could sell, not Babs.

And how can you even say Cass hasn't sold comics outside of being Batgirl, when DC hasn't even given her the chance to do so!? She literally just returned for Rebirth, after Didio let up on his ignorant bias, though not entirely.



Spoken like someone who has probably never even read Cass' tenure as Batgirl. If you think that's the reason why she's so revered then I don't know what else to tell you...



Except it wasn't just one writer, or one or two stories, it was an entire two years and a company wide event of character assassination for Cass. The title that you claimed "failed" spun out of that mess. You're naive if you think fans would willing support a book that furthered an OOC Cassandra. Vol. 2 of Batgirl failed because of DC's inneptivity not because of Cassandra or lack of interest in the character from fans.


Cassandra was introduced prior to Batgirl #1 and didn't spin off from some event with an all-star team, so comparing her to NAOH or Young Animal is moot.



They say numbers don't lie...

Batgirl # 1 - 64,296K
Batgirl #73 - 26,536K

Batgirl #1 - 34,404K
Batgirl #6 - 20,747K

Batgirl #1 - 51,670K
Batgirl #24 - 22,695K

Batgirl #1 - 81,489K
Batgirl #52 - 26,492K

Batgirl #1 - 96,177
Batgirl #19 - 18,887

Cassandra's first run started with strong sales but stabilized in the 26K to 28K range, and could have easily made it to 100+ issues before cancellation. Those numbers may not look ideal but it's the best of any of the Batgirl volumes. The second volume is an example of the consequences of character assassination.

The third volume is Stephanie's tenure as Batgirl. While not as strong as Cass's numbers, they're still not the worst Batgirl numbers either. Plus it was a fun book.

Volume 4 & 5 are Barbara's tenure as Batgirl. The high starting numbers are a result of spinning out of a company wide reboot and relaunch respectively. New 52 would have eventually been cancelled before it reached Cass' numbers, unless DC rebooted it again to keep it afloat, like they had already done with issue 35 onwards. New 52 bled readers, as it lost 8k in the span of 2 issues. Rebirth is just pathetic! It'll probably be the first Batgirl comic to sell at 10K since it has 3 more issues solicited and sales for February's issue haven't even been revealed yet.



I like Barbara as Oracle, I don't like her as Batgirl. WB can do whatever they want, but like I said earlier, I'm a patient young man, and I'm well prepared to wait to get the quality versions of each character (Babs as Oracle and Cass as Batgirl).


Yes they did undo it, after fan outcry, but they also shipped her off to limbo and made her off limits to writers that wanted to use her.


That's a damn lie and you know it! If that were the case than DC would not be launching all these new imprints, with diversity being a huge selling point, both to the direct market (Wildstorm, Milestone, Young Animal, NAOH) and outside of it (Ink, Zoom, Black). There would not be cries of PC/liberal agenda screamed at books starring females and minorities. There wouldn't be people calling out DC on lack of diversity...etc

Also how would you know if she wouldn't sell outside of Batgirl? DC has never tried! Plus those same arguments could be made about Barbara, since there was never an Oracle book.

By the way Cass has held that record for a good 12 years now, against the likes of Green Lantern (John, Jessica, Simon), Blue Beetle, Firestorm, Atom, Steel, Static...etc. Quite impressive.



Lol you do realize BOP is a team book and was recently canceled right? Last issue sold 18K. Only a matter of time until Batgirl is cancelled as well, since it had similar sales. Hmm so much success lmao



Batgirling was a disaster and led to the mess the Batgirl franchise is currently in.

And no, I just want Cass to stop being treated like garbage, just because some biased asshat in charge of DC doesn't like her. Couldn't care less what they do with Barbara. Keep her as Batgirl and give Cass a title as Black Bat or some cool alias (Not Orphan, that name sucks). Fine by me.



Nope. You came in all buthurt because some fans wanted to see Cass (or Stephanie) as Batgirl.

And I listed multiple reasons why I think WB should go with Cass as Batgirl. It's Barbara fans who keep saying the same thing over and over again (OMG she's the most iconic OMG).

Dick Grayson has been around since 1940 but has never had a book as Robin and his first Nightwing solo came after Tim Drake's Robin solo so I guess he now owes Tim Drake. Do you realize how dense and strawmanish your arguments are? The situation in the 90's was far more conducive to a Batman family line of books. TDKR reinvented Batman then the Burton films and BTAS made him a big brand. There were 4 monthly Batman books. Cass wasn't the only person to get an ongoing. Tim did, Azrael did, Catwoman did, Dick did and in his case after all those characters even though he's more popular than all of them. The time was ripe for a Batgirl book as pretty much everyone had a book. Cass just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

And your second argument here exposes your hypocrisy on this subject. How can you make claims about Babs in ability to sell during the Silver Age when she too was never given a chance to be in her own book. Cassandra's second Batgirl on the other hand utterly tanked. Which you'll blame on Didio and bad writing which is par the course for Cass fans. Well Babs has been subject to bad writing too, as is everyone in comics and in her case the editor did want her gone which is easily provable. You have nothing on Didio. He's been at DC in a senior position since 2002(executive editor), a mere 2 years in to Cassandra's existence. If he had something against Cass he could have killed her while she was still in her early stages and this 100% applies to Steph since that character only became Batgirl under him.

She is only revered by a small group of devoted fans.

It was one writer (Beechen) on one book (Robin). Johns fixed her problems in TT by blaming them on Deathstroke.
With that she got a clean slate to move forward. Making Beechen the writer of her book was stupid but no more than say Marvel recently putting Spencer on Spider-Man. She had a clean direction after TT which Beechen capitalized on. Truth is that there was no interest in Cass from that point onwards. Her book failed period, bad writing may well be the cause of it but as I've stated multiple times every character is badly written every once in a while.

She was introduced in the Bat epic No Mans Land so its not moot.

Yeah numbers dont lie indeed, your own numbers show that Cassandra's most recent Batgirl book was effectively performing the same numbers as Babs most recent Batgirl book. Difference is that it took Babs 19 issues to reach those numbers while Cass gassed out at 6, less than a third of Babs numbers lol. Ofcourse you stubbornly cling on to your cinspiracy theory. So your exercise in rationality fails.

At the end of the day the most unbiased statement I can make here after viewing those numbers is that all Batgirl books perform around the same range. Which is kinda what I've been trying to say this entire time. Its a spin off property riding on Batman's coaattails. Babs simply happens to have more exposure in every single medium...or should I say the only Batgirl to have any exposure. She's more connected to the core Bat mythology next to her successors, she's affiliated with a spinoff property and has the best template for a Batgirl story in the form of Year One. As far as adaptability to film is concerned(which is the topic to begin with) Babs handily beats out both her successors. Now you can argue about sales numbers across 2 or 3 different decades while ignoring the context where it suits you, sales numbers of dying monthly comics that reflect the same group of small and limited number of fans next to potential movie goers all you want. I dont really care. Babs has multiple critical and objective advantages over Steph and Cass that have already been stated. She can easily be introduced in a Batman or Nightwing film without making it about her and then move on from there to a solo. Her own solo if it comes out first can introduce and connect her to Batman without jumping through hoops. No Batman director is going to waste their time making Cain or Cluemaster major characters not when they can just go with Deathstroke and Riddler and if they do then they're hacks .

You're gonna have to wait a long time then. Even Babs as Oracle does not guarantee Cass. I can just as easily just see them making Helena Wayne the new Batgirl just to play with the idea of Batgirl being Batman's biological daughter and Robin's sister than I see them touching Cass.

She was shipped off to limbo to cool down.

There's a difference between diversity and minority .Zoom and Ink for instance feature the same old cast of characters overwhelmingly. They're diverse but not really about minorities. The only minority character is a GL so even that one is riding on the back of an established brand. Same goes for Young Animal as its not really about minorties which is on life support to begin with.NOAH is already flopping. Milestone is not DC and its been about to " happen" for what? A decade now? Lol. Black Label will be about their big properties much like Zoom and Ink. Wildstorm isn't even a line HAHA, there's only 2 books.

How would you know it'd sell?

She has a record against other low selling characters. Wow how impressive. Never mind the fact that she's BAT while they weren't. The most impressive are Steel and Static. Steel atleast isn't Supersteel and Static has been the victim of Milestone's publishing problems

Its called Batgirl and BOP not BOP. Notice how I didn't count the other volumes. It still outlasted the second Cass book and it along with Batgirl essentially created a situation where the character had 2 books one month. Even if both books get cancelled then Babs would have accumulated almost 50 issues and an annual in a 2 year period. That actually is impressive. Combine that with her 55 issue ongoing plus 2 annuals from New 52 then the number adds up to greater than Cass and Steph's issues put together in about half the time. If this isn't impressive then neither is Cass.

It led to gems like Midnighter and Omega Men and diversified DC montone product line. Strange for someone who cares about diversity to utterly dismiss it.

Once again with the conspiracies...sigh. Orphan is more interesting than Batgirl. I hate Cass as Batgirl but she's a great character as Orphan. See I can play that game too.Black Bats taken already though.

You came in ******** because you cant handle someone calling Cass a nobody. Are we done now?

You have been multiple logical reasons, choosing to ignore them is on you.

But I'll clarify them again:
She's a light character who's the opposite of Batman. Cass is a character which tries to out Batman Bruce. Her tragedy is harsher, her no kill rule is stricter, she's a true loner, she barely talks, she's more badass. She's an exercise in redundancy
Characters like Batgirl and Robin were created to draw in kids which Babs easily can.
The DCEU's gritty and miserable direction has failed. Babs unlike Cass creates a departure from the DCEU of old.
Babs is connected to core Batman characters like Dick and Gordon.
You dont have to spend time and creative energy explaining her as you need to do for Steph and Cass.
The people who're already exposed to Batgirl perceive Babs as being the archetype for the concept. This includes her iconic status, visuals etc.
An introduction in the Batman film is easily accomplished without sacrificing villain spots for the sake of explaining the new Batgirl. Why bother with 2 lame villains like Cain and Cluemaster? Not only are they lame they aren't even unique. Everything Cain is Deathstroke is 1000 times that. Riddler is who Cluemaster wishes he was. Why not use actual heavyweight poular villains?
She can spin off in to BOP alongside Black Canary and Huntress. Her film can introduce them both.
If her Batgirl flops or becomes stale over time she can become Oracle.

Your arguments for Cass:
She's more interesting (your opinion).
Her books sold xyz bombastic numbers 1.5 decades ago. An irrelevant point which is further debatable to begin with.
She's minority.

 

[Juan1193]

I'm so done with this conversation. I don't even care enough about Batgirl to go through another wall of your text point by point. I've said my piece, given my reasons, provided facts...etc. Since neither one of us is going to change his opinion, I'm going to agree to disagree.

PS: The funny thing is, I don't even care about Cass Cain, I just can't stand Babs as Batgirl or people using the they're "nobodies" excuse. And I only care about racial diversity, since you know, you can't hide your race/ethnicity like you can your sexuality (ie Midnighter). Also what do the Omega Men have to do with diveristy?

 

[Omegabat]

Either way I'm not going to debate on any points except the last ones any further. This is about who's more suited for a film not how many comics were sold and conspiring editors.

 

[Rorschach2012]

If they're doing a Batgirl movie, it should obviously feature Barbara. They can and should get to Cassandra Cain down the line, but start with Barbara. She's the classic Batgirl and the most iconic iteration of the character. She's the only Batgirl to get any attention in any media outside of the comics. Cassandra is a great character, but I'm not sure how well her movie would work. Drive is an example of how a mute protagonist can work, but I don't know if Drive should be a movie that a Batgirl movie emulates.

 

[Juan1193]

Either way I'm not going to debate on any points except the last ones any further. This is about who's more suited for a film not how many comics were sold and conspiring editors.

Fair enough. That won't be me though, since I don't like Batgirl, and have spent way too much time and effort in this thread.

If it were up to me, I'd cancel the whole thing.

 

[Fincher]

I notice, no one's commented on my question of "Why go straight into a batgirl film, when we've still not even SEEN robin....?"

Personally, I don't care about Robin. Their reasoning, though, probably has more to do with BvS taking place after Jason Todd and Dick Grayson as Robin and them prioritizing Dick Grayson over Tim Drake. So...TV Titans Grayson Robin and movie Grayson Nightwing.

 

[2kt09]

Babs is also a decent enough way to expand all that has happened when only tidbits have been revealed thus far. Then that Nightwing movie can just cut straight into whatever movie McKay has in mind.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batgirl-movie-back-bumblebee-writer-1101078

Warner Bros. is lighting up the Bat-signal for Batgirl once again.

Two months after Joss Whedon left the Batgirl movie project, the studio is moving ahead on developing a new movie project based on the DC Entertainment heroine. Christina Hodson, who wrote the upcoming Transformers spinoff Bumblebee, has been tapped to pen a new script featuring Barbra Gordon, the daughter of Gotham City police commissioner James Gordon.

Hodson has already written the Batgirl character, having help develop a feature project based on the all-female group Birds of Prey.

 

[Abudefduf]

Dammit Warner Bros, please stop toying with my heart.

 

[Matt.S99]

Yeeesssss!

 

[Vlyse]

I was veering on the pessimistic side, so I ran a quick Google search on Christina Hodson and she was indeed tapped for Batgirl/BOP just recently in 2016 https://www.thewrap.com/harley-quinn-birds-of-prey-christina-hodson/

So WB has been eyeing her for a while. That's a better sign I guess than the usual DC news we get about X writer or Y director attached.

 

[NotNickFury]

Her resume, well, mostly Unforgettable and Shut-In, don't look like the best of films, but I say that merely looking at aggregation of ratings, not what I've seen for myself. Still, it's something for the film, at least.

 

[MbJ]

 

[Silvermoth]

I like what I see!

Can’t wait til we hear casting. Although we were meant to hear nightwing ages ago and that didn’t work out.

 

[mclay18]

According to Mark Hughes, the film has a script and WB is shopping it to directors

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...heroes-with-new-supergirl-movie/#25b7ba0e737a,

That's pretty fast!

 

[atomicbattery]

It was one month ago that Umberto Gonzalez reported that Batgirl was not in Birds of Prey, even though all previous reporting said that she had a very prominent role in the film (Gonzalez also said that while Batgirl was no longer in the film, he didn’t say that Barbara Gordon wasn’t).

Two weeks later DanielRPK tweeted that Warner was looking for a Kristen Stewart ‘prototype’ for Barbara/Batgirl.

About a week ago Mark Hughes said that Batgirl was removed from BOP because ‘plans had changed for that character’.

Now Hughes says that there is a script and they are looking for a director.

This really does sound like Batgirl is happening.

 

[Abudefduf]

^ Yep, seems that way.

https://deadline.com/2018/08/female-director-scorecard-warner-bros-superhero-wonder-woman-1202441259/

It wasn’t long ago that Warner Bros. was shamed for its lack of films with female leads. But after Wonder Woman, the studio has been very vocal about wanting to employ another female director for yet, another strong female superhero — Supergirl. The studio is also developing female superhero characters including Batgirl and another film based on Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn, the scene-stealing character from Suicide Squad

Daniel R @DanielRPK
They are looking for a female director for both Batgirl and Supergirl!

 

[misslane38]

It wasn’t long ago that Warner Bros. was shamed for its lack of films with female leads.

WTF is this? WB was shamed? They made Supergirl in the 1980s (and Catwoman later). They planned their shared universe to include Wonder Woman, and she started appearing by its second movie with her solo being the fourth and the Harley and Waller starring SS the third. So, is this dig from Deadline referring to other WB films, like in general, because it seems unfair to accuse their superhero universe of this.

 

[Micromind]

It wasn’t long ago that Warner Bros. was shamed for its lack of films with female leads.

Who shamed them ? Deadline ? Apart from Supergirl and Catwoman WB also made few fantasy based movies with female lead like -