Batman Begins Batman Begins Vs Superman Returns

[thedarks0ldier]

I dont know if you guys notice this but Perry White asked Jimmy Olsen how the "Birthday Clown Massacre" pictures are coming along.

 

[Two-Face]

I dont know if you guys notice this but Perry White asked Jimmy Olsen how the "Birthday Clown Massacre" pictures are coming along.

Hightlight to read:

Spoiler

It's about Joker?

 

[Cain]

Another problem i had with superman returns is that

Spoiler

In superman 2, superman lost his powers and slept with lois lane, The kid in superman returns is superman's kid but he has powers and when clark slept with lois clark didn't even had powers!

Spoiler

He lost his powers but his genetic make up is still Kryptonian. Therefore his kid would end up with Kryptonian DNA. Don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand this

Anyway for me it's like this Superman Returns was the better film. Now keep in mind that 80% of my post count on this site was aquired through remaining exclusive to this section of the hype. Keep in mind that I own all the Batman films and enjoy certain elements of each one (even B&R) a great deal. I have been reading Batman comics for over 16 years. There are very few people in my age group that understand the in's and out's of the Batman canon like I do. I'm talking about from the Kane/Finger era to present. However when I went to see BB opening weekend on IMAX it left me a little cold.

Most of that had to do with people hyping it up before hand as being faithful to the maximum and nonsense like that. So I made the error as approaching it as a comic book fan first and film fan second. I went in expecting a direct translation as opposed to an adaptation and becasuse of that when I walked out of the theater I had a lot of problems with it. I've watched it on DVD more times than I could count now and have learned to appreciate it more even though it's still not touching Mask of the Phantasm.

I didn't make the same mistake of playing "wannabe critic" and trying to be overanalytical this time though. I went in there expecting what they ended up accomplishing, "honoring Donner's original" nothing more nothing less. As opposed to "the most faithful comic book movie ever" like some people told me about BB before a couple of days before I saw it. Because of that it took me one viewing of SR to praise it as a great movie.

Like BB it makes lots of changes to the canon to fit the movie world, like BB it has plot holes, like BB it wasn't the film I wanted to see based on that particular character. I grew up during "Marvelization" of Superman so the Byrne/Jurgens/Waid era holds a special place with me. So a film more along the lines of that interpretation and having Supes facing someone like Mongul would've been my preffered choice. However unlike BB by the end of the film I felt like a complete kid again.

I'm not a fan of X-Men (the film not the comic) and I thought X2 was just ok but Singer has finally gained my respect and proved to me that he could handle genre filmmaking with the big dogs. The plane sequence is one of the most breathtaking things I've seen in a theater. Right up there with the T-1000 and the dinosaurs in Jurrasic Park. The audience I saw it with agreed too cause by the time Supes asked "Is everybody alright?" they erupted in applause. Nothing like that happened when I saw BB (though like with SR there was applause by the time the credits rolled) so I guess the exprience also had something to do with my opinion.

Routh completely won me over and like Bale I can't see anybody else in the role now. The movie had a lot of heart and while I just saw the 35mm I'm very much looking forward to catching it again in IMAX 3D. It was a great way to bring the character back despite it's flaws and I'm very much looking forward to the sequels and the eventual World's Finest movie now more than ever. Hats off to Bryan Singer and company for actually making a remake/sequel that matches up in more ways than one to the original.

Despite me liking it more than BB though we all win in the end because Warner has proven that they're not playing around with this new regime of DC films. I mean they dropped "quality over quantity" two years in a row already with films that weren't really action driven but were excellent character based pieces that actually made the audience connect on an emotional level with the story being told as opposed to insulting them. They were also great set ups for things to come.

I hope they use the same care they've used overseeing BB & SR with the upcoming Wonder Woman and Flash adaptations. Especially The Flash. I'm just glad that after all these years "Superman V" did not end up sucking all sorts of ass.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

that was BAD in batman begins that no one had much to say about bruce waynes return as if they didnt give much of a sh t and that feeling lingered through out the whole movie.

Well, he has no friends......so, why would anyone really care to begin with? He's nothing but some silk shirt wearing rich boy.

Doesnt SR have more negative feedback than BB at the time of its release? Im pretty sure all critics loved BB but SR is getting a mix...

I think it makes sense why, though. Superman has tons of hype surrounding it. ANY film with that much hype can never please everyone. It's statistically impossible. Batman Begins pretty much snuck under the radar with the little hype it had.

The difference between SR and BB, I think, is the fact BB was made to be, y'know, every fanboy's little wet dream, so on top of its actual quality, we all go crazy over it because it's how we imagined such a movie to be made.

Superman Returns however, wasn't exactly what everyone wanted or thought it would be, and I think that, despite it's great quality, upset some people.

Personally, SR wasn't exactly what I wanted either, but it's still a fantastic film and one I think is probably better than BB.

Yeah, totally. I think people, fanboys and all, went into this expecting the "classic ****"....ya know, same 'ol same 'ol, things that we all know have been done in the comics, and the cartoons. I think everyone imagined it'd be like that.

Problem is, it's not. It's a really ballsy film. It takes the mythos and takes them to an all new level, to a level even the comics haven't taken them.....and I think it's just scary for a lot of people to see that happen.

Personally, I loved the film. I think the tone, the scenes, the homages, (the Gotham mention was cool), and the film was just hands down....incredible. It's not the way I would have done it, it's not the story I would have told.....but just b/c it's different doesn't mean it's not good.

I don't think it's better than Batman, but I think it's about par. It's definitely number 2 on my list.

Superman Returns on the other hand, wasn't even that great of a 1st watch because of the glaring plotholes and inconsistencies.

like what? I didn't catch any....

I guess if there's anything that Batman Begins had, that I would have like in Superman Rerturns, is the total focus on the Hero. There was alot of Lex in here, alot more than than I thought there would be. But.....he NEEDED it, so to build up the story.

 

[Jack Napier]

Spoiler

He lost his powers but his genetic make up is still Kryptonian. Therefore his kid would end up with Kryptonian DNA. Don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand this

Anyway for me it's like this Superman Returns was the better film. Now keep in mind that 80% of my post count on this site was aquired through remaining exclusive to this section of the hype. Keep in mind that I own all the Batman films and enjoy certain elements of each one (even B&R) a great deal. I have been reading Batman comics for over 16 years. There are very few people in my age group that understand the in's and out's of the Batman canon like I do. I'm talking about from the Kane/Finger era to present. However when I went to see BB opening weekend on IMAX it left me a little cold.

Most of that had to do with people hyping it up before hand as being faithful to the maximum and nonsense like that. So I made the error as approaching it as a comic book fan first and film fan second. I went in expecting a direct translation as opposed to an adaptation and becasuse of that when I walked out of the theater I had a lot of problems with it. I've watched it on DVD more times than I could count now and have learned to appreciate it more even though it's still not touching Mask of the Phantasm.

I didn't make the same mistake of playing "wannabe critic" and trying to be overanalytical this time though. I went in there expecting what they ended up accomplishing, "honoring Donner's original" nothing more nothing less. As opposed to "the most faithful comic book movie ever" like some people told me about BB before a couple of days before I saw it. Because of that it took me one viewing of SR to praise it as a great movie.

Like BB it makes lots of changes to the canon to fit the movie world, like BB it has plot holes, like BB it wasn't the film I wanted to see based on that particular character. I grew up during "Marvelization" of Superman so the Byrne/Jurgens/Waid era holds a special place with me. So a film more along the lines of that interpretation and having Supes facing someone like Mongul would've been my preffered choice. However unlike BB by the end of the film I felt like a complete kid again.

I'm not a fan of X-Men (the film not the comic) and I thought X2 was just ok but Singer has finally gained my respect and proved to me that he could handle genre filmmaking with the big dogs. The plane sequence is one of the most breathtaking things I've seen in a theater. Right up there with the T-1000 and the dinosaurs in Jurrasic Park. The audience I saw it with agreed too cause by the time Supes asked "Is everybody alright?" they erupted in applause. Nothing like that happened when I saw BB (though like with SR there was applause by the time the credits rolled) so I guess the exprience also had something to do with my opinion.

Routh completely won me over and like Bale I can't see anybody else in the role now. The movie had a lot of heart and while I just saw the 35mm I'm very much looking forward to catching it again in IMAX 3D. It was a great way to bring the character back despite it's flaws and I'm very much looking forward to the sequels and the eventual World's Finest movie now more than ever. Hats off to Bryan Singer and company for actually making a remake/sequel that matches up in more ways than one to the original.

Despite me liking it more than BB though we all win in the end because Warner has proven that they're not playing around with this new regime of DC films. I mean they dropped "quality over quantity" two years in a row already with films that weren't really action driven but were excellent character based pieces that actually made the audience connect on an emotional level with the story being told as opposed to insulting them. They were also great set ups for things to come.

I hope they use the same care they've used overseeing BB & SR with the upcoming Wonder Woman and Flash adaptations. Especially The Flash. I'm just glad that after all these years "Superman V" did not end up sucking all sorts of ass.

That was really well-put. I too, saw Batman Begins and felt a little underwhelmed when I saw it. When I heard it was the best Batman movie by a mile, I had very high expectations. I remember Batman '89 shot for shot, musical cue for musical cue and I could recite the lines with ease. I was underwhelmed, but I've seen it countless times since, and I consider it as good as Batman '89, but not better.

Superman Returns, on the other hand, I went into with lower expectations. I loved the Donner films, but the scale of special effects I knew Singer was offering would be awesome. Singer is no slouch with story too, so I was pumped for that. Some people think that Singer was a slouch with telling the story, but I disagree. He passed up the chance to do an origin story, because the original Superman did it perfectly, and Smallville is still fresh in some people's minds.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, I think Begins is still king of the charts.....but I could see someone saying it's better. I'm, obviously, bias.

 

[StorminNorman]

Well, he has no friends......so, why would anyone really care to begin with? He's nothing but some silk shirt wearing rich boy.



I think it makes sense why, though. Superman has tons of hype surrounding it. ANY film with that much hype can never please everyone. It's statistically impossible. Batman Begins pretty much snuck under the radar with the little hype it had.



Yeah, totally. I think people, fanboys and all, went into this expecting the "classic ****"....ya know, same 'ol same 'ol, things that we all know have been done in the comics, and the cartoons. I think everyone imagined it'd be like that.

Problem is, it's not. It's a really ballsy film. It takes the mythos and takes them to an all new level, to a level even the comics haven't taken them.....and I think it's just scary for a lot of people to see that happen.

Personally, I loved the film. I think the tone, the scenes, the homages, (the Gotham mention was cool), and the film was just hands down....incredible. It's not the way I would have done it, it's not the story I would have told.....but just b/c it's different doesn't mean it's not good.

I don't think it's better than Batman, but I think it's about par. It's definitely number 2 on my list.



I guess if there's anything that Batman Begins had, that I would have like in Superman Rerturns, is the total focus on the Hero. There was alot of Lex in here, alot more than than I thought there would be. But.....he NEEDED it, so to build up the story.

Very well put CBBatman - as always.

 

[CrimsonMist]

thought Superman Returns was a better film. I was fine with it being the 3rd film to the original two. I think Superman's origin is known by EVERYONE, due to the George Reeves show, Donner's film, the cartoon show, Smallville, the comic revamps. There isnt much to explain, unlike with BB.

In BB, as much as i enjoyed it, i still wish they didnt have the whole Year One Batman taking on terrorists and super villains. It becomes the typical Bad guy tries to destory city, Hero saves the day(and yes, Superman had this as well). I still wish they went with a Year One film...i find the basis much better. Batman saving the city from itself.

I think another factor is that we got Superman from the get go. BB was an origin film.

Both had plot holes, people still debate the 3rd act of BB. The only noticable plot hole in SR that i saw the first time was where he got the space ship to go back into Space...but it didnt bother me.

both were damn good films. But i enjoyed Superman Returns far more. I've been finding Batman Begins kind of boring lately anyway...the last 2 times i've tried to watch the dvd, i couldnt finish it.

but i still think that the BB sequel will destroy. It sounds amazing

 

[trustyside-kick]

Batman Begins is a way better film than Superman Returns.

Even though Batman Begins was an origin film it was still better than Superman Return being 'Superman 3b' and taking so many things that practically made it an echo of the first film. Batman Begins did not only make Batman's origin more defined by showing what happened during that gap of him not being in Gotham (since it was never really done in the comics) but they decided to take a new realistic approach that worked well.

I loved both films...but I would not like a sequel to Superman Returns (unless they change the style and my god please show a villain besides Lex Luthor)...but I would definetly love sequels for Batman Begins (and they are signed for 3 films so my wish has been granted long ago :P).

 

[ReptileOrion]

I watched Superman Returns on Wednesday night. It was an enjoyable movie but in my opinion it doesn't top Batman Begins. I am more of a Batman fan than Superman but the story in SR was a bit lacking. The setup was great. When Superman made his return and averted the launch disaster I felt like Singer is getting it right. He obviously did his research but the second half of the movie simply wasn't as good as the first. I felt like it needed more. Routh is a great Superman and he did win me over. The scene where I felt like "Routh is Superman" was the bank heist scene. Batman Begins on the other end was solid throughout. As a Bat fan I felt like Nolan is the one director to finally give the character justice. Bale topped Keaton and scene where Bats is interrogating Flask I was thinking "Bale is Batman". To put it simply....Superman did return but as usual he can't top the Bat.

 

[batman44]

Personally I liked BB more, but SR was pretty darn good. The sequels for both these films is what I really want to get to.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I felt it was great, better than SPIDEY 2.....Better than X2, But not as good or maybe even with Batman Begins. I think my being a comic book fan has something to do with that.

The homages were great though. I mean, the beginning was exactly like the Superman films before.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Hightlight to read:

Spoiler

It's about Joker?

I think so

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Probably. Not many killer clowns in the world, ya know.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

They were all just a bad dream right?

Yea, and those things in the sky, just, uh, weather ballons.

 

[CConn]

I think so

Actually, I think it had something to do with Brutus having a clown's faced tattooed onto the back of his head.

I'm not sure, but I think it is.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Personally I liked BB more, but SR was pretty darn good. The sequels for both these films is what I really want to get to.

Same here.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Superman Returns had alot of plot holes that will never come to light in the way it was meant to some of the plot holes

- Lex and Stanford was behind the findings of Krypton and Superman leaving. Thinking he would die in space

-Ma Kent has moved on and has a boyfriend leaving Clark/Kal-El thinking he has lost his place in the world

-The return trip to Krypton according to the book plays a some what big part when Superman see New Krypton

I mean they may not seem to big there but if you read the book they are pretty huge moments that makes the story more well round problem is if all these parts were left in the movie we would have over a 3 hr Superman movie.

 

[Mee]

I've seen Returns now, and Begins is still mt favorite comic book movie. Returns had alot of great stuff, and maybe I'm a little bias being a Batman fan since I was a kid, but IMO Begins is better.

 

[Mee]

I dont know if you guys notice this but Perry White asked Jimmy Olsen how the "Birthday Clown Massacre" pictures are coming along.

I also liked the brief mention of Gotham, setting up a World's Finest movie?

+ =

 

[Nightwing92]

I also liked the brief mention of Gotham, setting up a World's Finest movie?

+ =

Ya i liked brief mentioning of gotham too....... If there is a worlds finest movie (which i think there is) it will be BADASS....

 

[Stringer]

I liked BB a lot more than SR. Both have plot hole but Supermans stuck out more to me. Batman Begins had more of an epic feel to it, Superman Returns felt like we were seeing the same parts of Metropolis throughout the entire movie.

The whole expanding continent plot seemed like it was only happening to 4 people with only quick shots of trouble on Metropolis.

Also Routh didnt really dig into the strain and pain of Superman when he got stabbed or when he was lifting the land mass. (for example Spiderman stopping the train in part II or Bruce pulling Ra's up from the Mountain in Begins)

All that said though I think the Superman sequel has the chance to be the best comic to film movie ever.

 

[Mee]

All that said though I think the Superman sequel has the chance to be the best comic to film movie ever.

The same could be said of the Batman sequel.

 

[Nightwing92]

The same could be said of the Batman sequel.

Again i say.... there won't be much competition between both sequels .... both of them will be excellent no doubt about that.....

 

[CConn]

The same could be said of the Batman sequel.

The same is said for the Batman sequel.

Except by TheSlag, but who listens to him anyway.