Batman Begins Batman Begins Vs Superman Returns

[CConn]

That's one of the plotholes i didn't wanted to talk about

It was also a plot hole in BB.

and the sad thing is that nobody care that clark kent left for so many years.

Which was also a plot hole in BB. Hell, at least in SR, Ma Kent and Jimmy are estatic to see Clark back. Bruce Wayne got no such reception in BB. Not that I minded greatly.

Another problem i had with superman returns is that

Spoiler

In superman 2, superman lost his powers and slept with lois lane, The kid in superman returns is superman's kid but he has powers and when clark slept with lois clark didn't even had powers!

Spoiler

Who knows how Kryptonian/Human mating works, who knows how the losing the powers thing worked, who knows how he got them back worked. Singer really could go anything he wanted with that, as it's just so unknown.

 

[The Only Woj]

they did mention Gotham, just wanted to throw that out there

Begins wins in that it focuses almost exclusively on Bruce. Superman is too much Lois Lane Returns for my liking. Routh was great, but he hardly had anything to say or do.

 

[StorminNorman]

Superman Returns is every bit as good as Batman Begins. They are of the same caliber which is a true credit to both films.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

well thats a bad definition cause there are actually people out there who like those movies. If you really wanted a bad superhero movie the best example is Batman & Robin or Superman 3 & 4.

those arent real movies...

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

those arent real movies...

They were all just a bad dream right?

 

[Nightwing92]

SR looks pretty badass but their is only one reason i abhor it the most, and that reason is that the whole franchise can't happen in reality.... batman begins is believable..... but SR is going to be a great movie by the looks of it...

 

[The Kid]

Except Alfred? Alfred knows because Bruce told him......that hardly counts as "wondering".

To explain myself in reply: that's why I said "except alfred." cuz He already knew... I don't really get where your going with that, friend.

As for everyone else wondering where he went....well, he's a rich playboy who went out to party....and didn't stop rocking til he felt like coming back 7 years later. I'm sure Alfred and the Wayne money could help create excuses too.

He was declared dead though. It's actually all over the news, a dead guy returning from the grave. I'd expect someone to wonder where he was all that time but it just never happened for whatever reason.

Bruce acting like a richboy dutz....it's why nobody puts 2 and 2 togeter....it worked wonders for Don Diego.

ok. but forgive me, I can't stop myself from challenging that a little by saying I've never witness don diego being declared dead and then returning while some zorro guy makes an appearance some time later. Did this happen to don too?

And, yeah batman44 is right. You could say the same, and give a better argument, for Superman Returns.

what would it be? I'm not yet sold on the idea that not one person gave a second thought about clark's five year soul searching journey somehow possibly being linked to superman's, or even them both returning in about the same week/month of time. I'm Not sure though about all the details. I haven't seen it yet, I might just go see it today.

Plus, the 7 year absence is part of the myth.

Indeed, my good man. Now you make me wonder how accurate begins is in representing the myth's story.

Mmmm sausages.

 

[Anita18]

Sorry peeps, my Mac has turned to molasses on me. And weirded out in the process....

 

[Anita18]

Okay, now it's Take #0283498346918374 or whatever it is...

I really liked SR, but something was missing. It didn't move me as much as BB, not by a mile...and after mulling it over in my head I think I've finallly got it.

We were led to believe that SR was going to be about Supes finding his place in a world that had learned to live without him. We did not see that. We saw him trying to find his place in Lois's life because she had learned to live without him. Small potatoes in comparison. That was a huge disappointment for me.

We were led to believe (thanks to trailers heavily featuring old Marlon Brando voiceovers) that Supes was supposed to represent good, and his purpose was to inspire good in other people. We did not see that. He inspires awe, like he should, but not much else. The entire good-evil conflict is between him and Lex Luthor. Same old superhero story stuff.

For me, BB was so much bigger than what SR was. It was about a man who could have had anything he wanted, thanks to a vast inheritance. Anything. But he gave it up to understand a world that was completely foreign to him, and all because he felt so much anger and guilt from the death of his parents. It was about a man singlehandedly taking on an entire city rotting with corruption and hate. At the end of the movie, he doesn't go as far as inspiring goodness. But he inspires hope, and that is all the people of Gotham could wish for at this point. And we see the inklings of Batman inspiring people like Gordon, Finch, and Rachel to take a stand.

I know that a lot of people hate the Narrows kid, but I think (especially after being disappointed in SR) that he has a fairly important role. The kid, from what we have seen, is trapped in an abusive family. He's seen many horrors thanks to living in the Narrows, and he has no hope. He sees Batman, and immediately lights up. When he and Rachel are in danger, he believes Batman will save him. The same thing could certainly be attributed to Gordon. He's frustrated by the corruption around him, but he doesn't have a way of working around it until Bats comes along. At the end of the movie, he has hope, and that was something SR could have really instilled in the story. Unfortunately, it didn't.

Sure, BB had plot holes that SR had 100000x more of (at least Bruce had a month or two to ready up Bats while Clark just jumped right back into Superman mode). But for me, the heart of SR could have been so much bigger, on par with BB and even beyond, and I'm really disappointed that it wasn't.

Not to say that SR doesn't have beautiful shots like BB did. It was a gorgeous film, but for me, every moment of BB was done perfectly.

 

[Bat Attack]

I enjoyed Batman Begins a bit more than Superman Returns. But they're both great film, IMO.

 

[batboy86]

To me, it seemed SR lacked a plot. It seemed more like a love story. Don't get me wrong, I had high expectations but what I saw on screen didn't impress me.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

My only question about SR is, wont' people notice when Clark left, Superman left? And when Superman Returned, Clark returned?

lol, well........disbelief suspensed...

It was also a plot hole in BB.

Which one, the returning part?

Which was also a plot hole in BB. Hell, at least in SR, Ma Kent and Jimmy are estatic to see Clark back. Bruce Wayne got no such reception in BB. Not that I minded greatly.

Well, Alfred cared. Rachel care. His return did make an impact on on Wayne Enterprises as well, and his return was announced on the front of newspapers. He actually did get alot of lovin', although Earle's was obviously Bull****.....but, hey...it's the thought that counts.

To explain myself in reply: that's why I said "except alfred." cuz He already knew... I don't really get where your going with that, friend.

Well, just that we didn't actually see Alfred wondering is all. We didn't see anyone wondering at all, that's all I'm pointing out. We don't see Gotham at all when Bruce is away.

But...the adapted novel kinda covers that, it's a nice read.

He was declared dead though. It's actually all over the news, a dead guy returning from the grave. I'd expect someone to wonder where he was all that time but it just never happened for whatever reason.

Well, we don't know when exactly it happened. My guess, since Earle's making his move once Bruce returns, that he returns immediately after being declared dead- and plays the dumb rich boy card. I think it's just something people could fill the blanks on they're own though.

ok. but forgive me, I can't stop myself from challenging that a little by saying I've never witness don diego being declared dead and then returning while some zorro guy makes an appearance some time later. Did this happen to don too?

Well, he wasn't declared dead.....but he did make a kind of journey.

The other thing is that his money could really help cover his tracks on this, even having to go back and create one.

Playing the party boy having fun card, easy like pie.

what would it be? I'm not yet sold on the idea that not one person gave a second thought about clark's five year soul searching journey somehow possibly being linked to superman's, or even them both returning in about the same week/month of time. I'm Not sure though about all the details. I haven't seen it yet, I might just go see it today.

Yeah, me neither.......the reason I say you COULD give a better argument against SR (I haven't seen the film yet, so I'll get back to you on this after tomorrow) b/c he works in a news room....around 2 great reporters, Lois and Perry, and then there's Jimmy-boy who takes all the pics.....my argument would be that those people should be able to put 2 and 2 together.

But, again....I only THINK you can give that argument, but I'll let you guys know after I watch the movie.

Indeed, my good man. Now you make me wonder how accurate begins is in representing the myth's story.

Pretty on the money, actually. I did prefer the BEGINS one, b/c there could be no trails whatsoever to his journey. He went on the travel with no money, without leaning on his family name, essentially living like a bum and fighting to survive. I think in that respect, it trumps the story last (it might be retconned, but....who the **** knows anymore...) story of the myth.

Mmmm sausages

Wait.

What kind of sausages....?

 

[ZER0C00L]

that was BAD in batman begins that no one had much to say about bruce waynes return as if they didnt give much of a sh t and that feeling lingered through out the whole movie.

 

[Nightwing92]

i know that sucked.... but you are off topic....

 

[raybia]

I usually hate threads like this but I have to wonder which will be the better movie. As a Batman fan I hope Batman Begins stays as my favourite superhero movie, although I do like Superman.

So far Superman Returns looks like its going to a definate hit and will make more money but im talking more about personal opinions.

I know both movies are very different as in Batman is darker and Superman is lighter themed. But I think the team behind Batman Begins is alot better I mean look at the director, cast and writer its almost like you cant go wrong with that.

Even though they are both superhero movies that may or may not share the same universe, they are two different movies. BB could theortically take place in our world. SR is pure fantasy, right down to how the population and Government reacts to the existence of an "Alien being" with absolute power.

Batman Begins and Superman Returns are by no means the "definitive films" of both franchises. The difference though is that BB is the best of the Batman series while SR is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best of that series.

I am a huge fan of both characters and regardless of the flaws in both films (and SR had more than BB did) they serve as excellent platforms for greater sequels (if treated with the same care by the studio). They make the statement and serve notice that both characters are back!

The best is yet to come for both.

 

[SHF]

Doesnt SR have more negative feedback than BB at the time of its release? Im pretty sure all critics loved BB but SR is getting a mix...

 

[CConn]

BB had 83% positive reviews, SR has 75%. Not too big of a difference. And hardly a "mixed" reception for SR.

 

[Nightwing92]

I really think their gonna have just about the same ratings.... on yahoo movies the critics and the yahoo users gave BB a B+ ..... but on SR The Critics gave it a B and the Yahoo users gave it a B+..... so its not that much of a competition

 

[CConn]

The difference between SR and BB, I think, is the fact BB was made to be, y'know, every fanboy's little wet dream, so on top of its actual quality, we all go crazy over it because it's how we imagined such a movie to be made.

Superman Returns however, wasn't exactly what everyone wanted or thought it would be, and I think that, despite it's great quality, upset some people.

Personally, SR wasn't exactly what I wanted either, but it's still a fantastic film and one I think is probably better than BB.

 

[ABC]

I have to see SR first.

 

[Boom]

I enjoyed the hell out of Superman Returns. It took a couple viewings for me to actually get to like Batman Begins. Superman Returns sold itself to me in one viewing.

This Round: Supes > Bats.

 

[Cats]

Well, I was amazed by Spider-Man 2 first time round, wasn't too impressed with Batman Begins, although it was a good watch. But after repeated viewings of both movies, I found greater depth in BB as compared to SM 2, so now BB is without a doubt, the best comic book movie in my mind - like wine, it just keeps getting better.

Superman Returns on the other hand, wasn't even that great of a 1st watch because of the glaring plotholes and inconsistencies. I don't know if it'll get like BB which will get better with repeated viewings, but I seriously doubt so. The entire storyline is pretty shallow, and acting mere passable (apart from Kevin Spacey who did the best he could with that role).

Of the Big Trio (Superman, Batman and Spider-Man), Superman Returns comes in last.

 

[Katsuro]

We were led to believe (thanks to trailers heavily featuring old Marlon Brando voiceovers) that Supes was supposed to represent good, and his purpose was to inspire good in other people. We did not see that. He inspires awe, like he should, but not much else. The entire good-evil conflict is between him and Lex Luthor. Same old superhero story stuff.

That actually is in there, at least I caught it. The voiceover of Brando where he's talking about inspiring other people occurs when Superman is drowning, right before Richard, Lois, and Jason go back to save Superman. It may have been minor, but it was there.

 

[Galactical]

I like begins more than superman returns. begins, though not perfect or the jesus christ of comicbook films it is to quite a few, keeps the story aimed on batman and everything is about him and why he does what he does. Returns felt like an awkward re-mix of the original superman in which he's a guest star but with a twist in that this time some kid is thrown in who I guess people know by now is the offspring of someone super. Without getting into details, I'll say that in the end, my dvd of batman begins will be alot more worn out than my superman returns dvd...

 

[Green Goblin 1964]

sr and bb are both amazing movies i seriously don't know which one i like better