The Dark Knight Batman is a loner...

now i understand we all want Comm Gordon to be faithfullly adapated and not like how Burton portryaed him as just some "cop"


but the one thing i always liked about Burtons idea for Batman and to me it makes the most sense


is that Batman is a complete loner... sure when hes bruce wayne hes taking nice broads out for dinner and he has this playboy bachelor life but when hes Batman he doesnt want alot of friends


thats why i think him and Gordon should have a good friendhsip


but not everytime Gordon is on screen should Batman be on screen


it seems alot of you want Gordon and Batman to be lke best friends and always there for each other

well thats stupid imo Batman doesnt need Gordon...Gordon needs Batman

yeah sure there should be a couple scenes of them togther but other than that let Batman do his own thing


same goes for Harvey Dent.... yes they should be on the same side...but should they meet on a rooftop everytime Batman has info.......NO other wise it will seem that Batman is working for Harvey Dent.... this also applys for Gordon as well




one example is that in TLH theres the famous scene were they all get on the rooftop circle up and agree to take down crime


now in a comic book thats cool... but in a movie it would look amazingly cheesy... yeah sure they should all want to take down crime but come we dont need some cheesy get together on a rooftop were th ey put there hands in and say " lets do this together and we can fight crime" it would look ****ing corny as ****




i jsut thought id get that out there


again iam very aware that people are going to give me **** for this but i just wanted to get this out there and see how you all feel about Batman not being so damn close with Gordon and dent


again obviousl;y they should be friends and have a couple scenes together but not a **** load like alot of you want


You have sort of a point, but you're forgeting crucial things in the Batman mythos. First off, no man is an island. Batman always needs someone to give a little support, be it Robin, Batgirl, or Gordon. Also, Gordon isn't just some cop Batman thinks is cool, Gordon is the ONLY person that Batman admire's and considers an equal. Also don't forget that while Harvey Dent and Batman never interacted too much, Bruse Wayne and Harvey were very close friends. Batman is brooding and diistant; he likes to work alone. However, that doesn't mean he only works alone. Those people who support Batman like Gordon, Robin, Nightwing, Oraclle, and even Superman are a crucial part of the characters mythology, and that aspect of Batman should make it on film in one way or another.
 
i agree with the OP. plain and simple, batman is a loner. one of the reasons i dont like the comics is he has too much help from too many ppl, inlcuding lucious, oracle/batgirl, robin (take your pick), then nightwing, different police cops from various stories, etc. i like batman when he is self reliant, not haveing all these ppl around him. tis why i like the burton batman more. in begins, there were way too many ppl "helping" him out, the lamest one being morgan "shouldnt be such a" freeman.

plus, i never found gordon all that interesting of a character. i always thought of him as just another sidekick for batman. my opinion still hasnt changed.

I don't get it. You guys are basically trying to turn Batman into a loner when he's not. If he's not a loner in the comics, and has never really been that way since the late 30's, then it's against the character's mandate to make him that way. What I hated about Burton's films is how they portrayed Gordon as a useless old geezer. Gordon is Batman's "Man on the Street". Gordon can pull string after string for Batman to make his job all the more easy. Access to Arkahm? Gordon can grant that. Access to police files and evidence? Gordon's got it. Call of the cops most recent Bathunt? Gordon can do that too. In Begins (which I just got done watching again) all the supporting characters did only what was neccessary of them. It was also a good example of a situation when Batman can't do it all alone. He's only one man, sometimes that's not enough.
 
Even when Batman does need others and works with them (Alfred, Fox and Gordon in B Begins) he's a loner in the sense thnat he lives like one. Doesn't care for other people liking him, he states that he can't allow himself "the luxury of friends" and stop Gordon from saying "thank you" to him, which, even when it can be reasonably and intellectually explained, it's a sign of how he rather being alone by setting a distance between him and Gordon. He behaves distant even with Alfred. The only person that kind of broke that distance was Rachel, but then she decided to set a distance between her and Bruce.

Batman might be surrounded by people in the movie but hehas a loner's soul.
 
I don't get it. You guys are basically trying to turn Batman into a loner when he's not. If he's not a loner in the comics, and has never really been that way since the late 30's, then it's against the character's mandate to make him that way.
While I see your point, I don't know where you got the notion that Batman was never a loner. He certainly has multiple times in the comics.

Granted, he has had some help here and there, but his image is most definitely not a "people-person".
 
I consider myself a bit of a loner but I have a solid group of friends. Sure, Batman is a loner in much the same way. The real crime that Burton committed was his depiction of Gordon as Jabba the Hutt's cousin.
 
There is so many things wrong with your post, I'm not even going to explain it to you.

Simply put, pretty much everything you said is wholly and grossly comic inaccurate, irrational, illogical, or just plain dumb.

I suggest you read a lot more Batman comics before you start trying to correct other, more knowledgeable people on the proper characterization of the character.

batman has been interpreted in more ways then one, so no, his post is NOT wrong, its simply choosing one version over another. seriously, just because you dont agree with someone doesnt make there opinion wrong. i happen to agree with him, along with other posters on here.
 
now in a comic book thats cool... but in a movie it would look amazingly cheesy... yeah sure they should all want to take down crime but come we dont need some cheesy get together on a rooftop were th ey put there hands in and say " lets do this together and we can fight crime" it would look ****ing corny as ****
i agree with this statement. everyone says how that was a great moment, and while it does work in the comics, in the movie that whole thing was corny, especially the line "i never said thank you" "grrand youll never have to grr", nuh uh he didnt just say that, what a load of corn that is.

he states that he can't allow himself "the luxury of friends"

this was also a load of bull, since he had about 4-5 other "friends" helping him, even if they didnt know it. sorry but i like batman a real loner, not some guy who is bumming off other ppl like bale did.
 
The real crime that Burton committed was his depiction of Gordon as Jabba the Hutt's cousin.

The Gordon in B89 may not be the one we know of today (popularized by YO, TLH, and Begins) but it stayed true to Bob Kane's version of the character (which much of the movie is based on).
 
While I see your point, I don't know where you got the notion that Batman was never a loner. He certainly has multiple times in the comics.

Granted, he has had some help here and there, but his image is most definitely not a "people-person".

I don't argue that he's not exactly people friendly, he was probably at his worst after the murder of Jason Todd. However, Batman was always the type to allow people to be around as long as it in service to his goals. While I think Batman works best as a solo act, others aiding him in his fight for justice doesn't automatically make them his sidekicks. Also it would be a little boring if Batman rarely interacted with normal people. Someone has to provide a counter balance to his extreme behaviour.
 
The Gordon in B89 may not be the one we know of today (popularized by YO, TLH, and Begins) but it stayed true to Bob Kane's version of the character (which much of the movie is based on).
While YO and TLH didn't provide the original depection of Gordon, they did provide the classic depection of him. I'd take the hard-nose, roscoe-packing Gordon over the fat, old and useless Gordon any day of the week. That's the Gordon that we should've had from the get-go.
 
While YO and TLH didn't provide the original depection of Gordon, they did provide the classic depection of him. I'd take the hard-nose, roscoe-packing Gordon over the fat, old and useless Gordon any day of the week. That's the Gordon that we should've had from the get-go.
You do realize TLH was written years after B89 came out, right?

Hell, even YO was pretty new when B89's script was being written.
 
well thats stupid imo Batman doesnt need Gordon...Gordon needs Batman


Correction. In a city run by corruption a vigilante trying to bring down that corruption ABSOLUTELY needs an ally in the police department, especially one that will eventually head the PD.
 
the key to any superhero is that they have to be relatable (sp?), they have to be HUMAN despite thier powers. That's the great conflict for any super.

Now with Batman I think the dyanamic is a little different seeing as how he doesn't have super powers so in some ways he's actually trying to make himself less human and more of a symbol (as he states in BB). But still for any of us to really see him as a hero he needs to have the relationships that ground him in the human realm. Otherwise you dont have anything plotwise, because there's nothing for batman to fight for. So although he may be a loner, he has to have relationships with people both professional and personal in order to drive him.

(my thesis proposal is due tomorrow...0 words written...1 hour spent on SHH!...I think I see a correlation)
 

is that Batman is a complete loner..
.

There are over 60 years of comics to back up the contrary.

Dick Grayson/Robin/Nightwing
Alfred Pennyworth
James Gordon
Harvey Dent
Henri Ducard
Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Jason Todd/Robin 2
Tim Drake/Robin 3
Superman/Clark Kent
Barbara Gordon/Batgirl/Oracle
Cassandra Cain/Batgirl
Jean Paul Valley/Azreal
Leslie Thompkins
Silver St. Cloud
Talia Head
Helena Bertinelli/ Huntress
The entire JUSTICE LEAGUE of AMERICA
Stephanie Brown/Spoiler
Lucius Fox
Crispus Allen

So on and so forth........Batman has had had hundreds of allies...he is not alone. He is not a loner. He knows he needs help, just because he doesn't jump at the chance to receive it or ask for it, doesn't mean he's a loner.

Don't use the defense that "he was originally conceived as a loner but then the parents screwed that up" B.S. either.

If that was "the character" there have been over 60 years to reckon that...it hasn't been.

Done.


-R
 
I'd still consider most of those people "work associates". Very rarely does Bruce ever hang out with them during his spare time. Therefore, it doesn't count as him not being a loner imo.
 
There is so many things wrong with your post, I'm not even going to explain it to you.

Simply put, pretty much everything you said is wholly and grossly comic inaccurate, irrational, illogical, or just plain dumb.

I suggest you read a lot more Batman comics before you start trying to correct other, more knowledgeable people on the proper characterization of the character.



what is up with people on this forums acting like complete *******s to people everytime they post something and you dont agree with the person?


a simple " i dont agree with you " than explain in a mannerley way would have been nice



ever heard of constructive criticsm??????? try using and dont resolve to calling me dumb.


I dont know how old you are but honestly GROW UP if your going to reply like that.


no need to throw insults out there
 
and how am i so inaccurate?



i stated i knoew that Batman and Gordon were always allies

and iam aware of Batmans family(Robin,Nightwing,Oracle ,Batgirl etc)


i just simply stated that i feel Batman has always deep down inside been a bit of loner....
 
No it's not.
Yeah, it is. His main argument is that three people talking on a rooftop for one scene is "amazingly cheesy" and overly friendly. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure three people can have a conversation without getting all touchy feely and being best friends.

I don't really mind if people want Batman to go it alone, but what burns me is when they make this "Batman is a loner" argument. Really? When was this? For roughly two of his 65+ years? Yes, Batman is lonely because he cannot have a normal life and normal relationships, yes he is a solitary individual, but he also has allies, a support group, and a surrogate family. He has always had these things.

Giving Batman these things does not diminish his lonely, solitary nature in any way. Quite the contrary: it enhances these qualities. Personal relationships are always the vehicle through which a character's nature is illustrated. If Batman was a guy rattling around a cave by himself, that'd be probably the worst way of showing him to be a loner. It doesn't say "Batman is obsessive, solitary figure!" No, it says "There's nobody around for Batman to interact with, which would demonstrate his solitary nature!" How unimaginably boring.

What tells me he's a lonely, solitary individual is when he rejects his surrogate family one moment, and scrambles to keep them at his side the next. He is a very conflicted man when it comes to personal relationships. His better judgment tells him he cannot risk having a family, but his humanity demands one. Because he was not raised normally, he is socially crippled and finds normal human interaction difficult. Batman probably has abandonment issues, too: he doesn't want anyone getting too close, for fear of losing them the way he lost his parents. At the same time, he can never bring himself to shake loose of these people. Accordingly, he comes off as a prick, most of the time, and he prefers it that way because it helps him keep these people at arms length. Conversely, his family finds caring for him difficult because he doesn't know how to reciprocate. In Denny O'Neil's excellent "Knightfall" novelization, there was a moment between Bruce and Tim, where Tim was extremely upset because Jean Paul Valley had just murdered a man, and Tim had been unable to stop it. Bruce recognized that Tim was probably in needing of comfort, but having never learned about healthy familial interactions--due to the early death of his parents--he had no idea what to say or do that might comfort Tim. As such, he said the wrong thing, so Tim got angry and left. This demonstrates Batman's nature and his tragic loneliness better than a guy sitting alone in a cave ever could.

To put it simply, it's the way Batman acts around his friends and family that makes him a loner, not their absence.

I have always found it curious that certain Batman fans rally against these relationships (Robin in particular). I'll never understand how people think Batman will be more like Batman by removing the characters who define him. How is Batman more like Batman if you take away his son? How is Batman more like Batman if you carve apart his mythos and leave only the bare bones? The conflict between Batman and his pseudo-family is what has made the character who he is. Those who say he should be all alone are not concerned with what Batman is, but with what they wish he was.
 
This is the worst thread ever.



how is this the worst thread ever???


because you disagree with me?????????? iam sorry but you sound amazingly ****ing ignorant to me


and grow up and dont be like a 12 year old and just type" worst thread ever"



ive seen alot worst threads than this.... and you mean to tell me this is the worst ever


my god the people on these forums some of you all are cool but damn some of you are stuck up ignorant jerks
 
and how am i so inaccurate?
Okay, the first comic inaccuracy you had was saying Batman and Gordon aren't best friends, when it's been expressedly stated in the comics (No Man's Land) that they ARE best friends, that they ARE very close-working partners. To say they aren't or shouldn't be is simply untrue.

Saying Batman doesn't need Gordon is also decidedly untrue. There's been countless situations in the comics where Batman relies on Gordon a great deal. Hell, even in Batman Begins, Gordon is an integral part in Batman's plans.

The irrational/illogical part of your post was saying that it'd be campy for Batman, Gordon and Dent to be partnered. There's simply no way you could know whether that'd be campy or not in a live action film. No way. It'd depend purely on how it was written, shot, and produced. As it is with EVERYTHING in film.
i stated i knoew that Batman and Gordon were always allies

and iam aware of Batmans family(Robin,Nightwing,Oracle ,Batgirl etc)


i just simply stated that i feel Batman has always deep down inside been a bit of loner....
Here's how I see it; you're a fan of Burton's very...singular Batman. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm a fan of him too. But comic wise? Nuh uh. While his characterization has changed over the years, Batman has almost always been surrounded by partners...family. While yeah, he can be a prick to them - cut himself off to them - they're still there. And remember, that prick characterization, is only one characterization. Go read the 60s comics and tell me that Batman is a loner. Go read the 70s comics and tell me that Batman is a loner. He's anything but that.
 
how is this the worst thread ever???


because you disagree with me?????????? iam sorry but you sound amazingly ****ing ignorant to me


and grow up and dont be like a 12 year old and just type" worst thread ever"



ive seen alot worst threads than this.... and you mean to tell me this is the worst ever


my god the people on these forums some of you all are cool but damn some of you are stuck up ignorant jerks

Maybe Saint means grammatically... or the fact that you feel Batman is a loner and say that any collaboration between him and other minded folks is cheesy.
 
I'd still consider most of those people "work associates". Very rarely does Bruce ever hang out with them during his spare time. Therefore, it doesn't count as him not being a loner imo.
He made Dick Grayson his legal ward. He did the same with Jason Todd. He's lived with Alfred for years. Gordon is has been an ally of his since Year One. He fathered a child with Talia Head in alternate continuity, but in continuity has had a relationship with both Talia Head and Selina Kyle as Batman and as Bruce Wayne. And in the last year he's adopted Tim Drake as his son.....this is a little more than taking his work home with him. Forget it man, he is not such a loner....he's had more than 5 partners, several love interests, countless allies and more.

-R
 

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