Batman R.I.P.

[GrendelPrime32]

anyone else notice how the penguin on the cover of the new ish of robin standing over a deadlookin bats with a funny suit y'all've been speculatin about has switched up and become Spoiler standing over him? and it says with bats out of action, tim becomes somebody else to go rumble?
and wTF does the new nightwing have to do with RIP- that synop seems to have nw out of AA, which is a continuity glitch of didiotic proportions if true- i say that because u can't blame Everything on gm

 

[chris moore]

I'm not a Batman reader, or even a DC one for the most part. I just like to kinda keep abrest of what's going on. So I'm afraid the specifics of R.I.P and the arcs preceeding it are a mystery to me in regards to their importance. But only one thing seems to stand out to me from the wiki summary I read a moment ago:

That this is just DC's "Death of Captain America". Like Batman will carry on, but not as Bruce Wayne because Batman's abilities, like Cap's, are learned and not empowered. That he has a host of potential successors who can fill the void but never quite live up to who Bruce really was.

That about right? Or will we (hopefully) see Bruce emerge from all this broken but becoming stronger for it all. If not. If this is just DC's Cap extravaganza. Then its a sorry tale that could well ruin the legend of the Batman for the sake of shock value and marketing. Like I said, I'm not a Batman reader, but I would say that the psychology of Bruce and his life are far more what Batman has always been about than Steve Rogers and Cap. Steve was a legend, and icon to be sure. But it was what Cap stood for and inspired other to do that made him who he was, and thats why someone like Bucky can fill those shoes. Robin, Nightwing etc however are far too different from Bruce as people and as psyches to embrace what being Batman is all about.

Of course, if anyone wants to quickly go over the gist for me than that'd be great. Specifically these black books Tim has read, and how Bruce being drugged and a little nuts temporarily has any bearing on his permanently losing the cowl and cape.

 

[Majic Walrus]

There are plenty of characters who I feel could pass on their mantle and have done so in the past. The Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Robin etc. There are two who cannot pass down their so called mantles. Superman and Batman. They're to well known in the real world and their characters are too integral to the DCU.

On a side note it's interesting how even in DC little characters don't even stay dead. I re-read Quiver the other day and noticed that there was a "Robin" in Heaven when Hal Jordan (as the spectre) was showing the hollow of Ollie around. That was supposed to be Jason Todd.

 

[CaptainClown]

I'm not a Batman reader, or even a DC one for the most part. I just like to kinda keep abrest of what's going on. So I'm afraid the specifics of R.I.P and the arcs preceeding it are a mystery to me in regards to their importance. But only one thing seems to stand out to me from the wiki summary I read a moment ago:

That this is just DC's "Death of Captain America". Like Batman will carry on, but not as Bruce Wayne because Batman's abilities, like Cap's, are learned and not empowered. That he has a host of potential successors who can fill the void but never quite live up to who Bruce really was.

That about right? Or will we (hopefully) see Bruce emerge from all this broken but becoming stronger for it all. If not. If this is just DC's Cap extravaganza. Then its a sorry tale that could well ruin the legend of the Batman for the sake of shock value and marketing. Like I said, I'm not a Batman reader, but I would say that the psychology of Bruce and his life are far more what Batman has always been about than Steve Rogers and Cap. Steve was a legend, and icon to be sure. But it was what Cap stood for and inspired other to do that made him who he was, and thats why someone like Bucky can fill those shoes. Robin, Nightwing etc however are far too different from Bruce as people and as psyches to embrace what being Batman is all about.

Of course, if anyone wants to quickly go over the gist for me than that'd be great. Specifically these black books Tim has read, and how Bruce being drugged and a little nuts temporarily has any bearing on his permanently losing the cowl and cape.

But..the Captain America series was good.

Sorry I am a loyal Ed Brubaker fan haha.

 

[chris moore]

That's what I'm saying. The Brubaker run has been brilliant. Thats why it seems cheap to just try and replicate it with Batman, if that's what it is

 

[Tree27]

hey guys, has #678 come out yet? and if it hasen't, when?

 

[Dark Victory]

hey guys, has #678 come out yet? and if it hasen't, when?

678 came out a month ago. Only about a week until 679 and we can see The Batman of ZUR-EN-HAH(however it's spelled)!!!!!

 

[Majic Walrus]

Does the Robin and Nightwing tie in come in next week?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Does the Robin and Nightwing tie in come in next week?

The Robin tie-in was last week....not sure on the nightwing tie-in.

 

[Majic Walrus]

My local comic store keeps jacking up my subscriptions... But DC jacks them up too.

 

[joke]

I have a question about Detective #847.

Spoiler

There are flashbacks to when Bruce and Elliott were together in some summer camp. Tommy's father was already dead and his mother crippled. Tommy is narrating and says something to the effect of "A few weeks later, I read about Bruce's parents getting mugged and murdered."

My question is, wasn't it the other way around before? Bruce's parents died, Tommy wanted it, too, so he rigged the car accident.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Does the Robin and Nightwing tie in come in next week?

Part 2 of 2 of the Robin RIP tie-in came out today. Part 1 of the Nightwing tie-ins also start today. Not sure how many there will be. At least three.

 

[The Guard]

Have to agree with Bosef, although I don't know that it's so much about structural issues as it is a simple lack of restraint. There are only so many pages in each comic, and so many pages in each arc, and Grant Morrison often tries to put wayyy too much into his storylines, which hampers the overall execution of his ideas via pacing issues. His ideas tend to be interesting on most levels, but the execution of them is often flawed, and it leaves you with a story that doesn't feel natural, and worse, feels really forced.

 

[Swordmaster]

I have a question about Detective #847.

Spoiler

There are flashbacks to when Bruce and Elliott were together in some summer camp. Tommy's father was already dead and his mother crippled. Tommy is narrating and says something to the effect of "A few weeks later, I read about Bruce's parents getting mugged and murdered."

My question is, wasn't it the other way around before? Bruce's parents died, Tommy wanted it, too, so he rigged the car accident.

Spoiler

No, because Tommy resented Bruce because Thomas Wayne saved his mother and prevented him from inheriting her wealth.

 

[rnewbz]

one thing i really can't understand about all these tie-ins in why can't they be consistent with Morrison's new Joker, its really not that hard. The next ish of Nightwing has the old school Joker. I mean I would love for artists to maintain some continuity at least.

 

[Majic Walrus]

What do you mean Morrison's new Joker? I thought those issues were supposed to be out of continuity.

 

[Nepenthes]

I'm not a Batman reader, or even a DC one for the most part. I just like to kinda keep abrest of what's going on. So I'm afraid the specifics of R.I.P and the arcs preceeding it are a mystery to me in regards to their importance. But only one thing seems to stand out to me from the wiki summary I read a moment ago:

That this is just DC's "Death of Captain America". Like Batman will carry on, but not as Bruce Wayne because Batman's abilities, like Cap's, are learned and not empowered. That he has a host of potential successors who can fill the void but never quite live up to who Bruce really was.

That about right? Or will we (hopefully) see Bruce emerge from all this broken but becoming stronger for it all. If not. If this is just DC's Cap extravaganza. Then its a sorry tale that could well ruin the legend of the Batman for the sake of shock value and marketing. Like I said, I'm not a Batman reader, but I would say that the psychology of Bruce and his life are far more what Batman has always been about than Steve Rogers and Cap. Steve was a legend, and icon to be sure. But it was what Cap stood for and inspired other to do that made him who he was, and thats why someone like Bucky can fill those shoes. Robin, Nightwing etc however are far too different from Bruce as people and as psyches to embrace what being Batman is all about.

Of course, if anyone wants to quickly go over the gist for me than that'd be great. Specifically these black books Tim has read, and how Bruce being drugged and a little nuts temporarily has any bearing on his permanently losing the cowl and cape.

Listen guy, just because you've recently read a Marvel story where the lead character dies, it doesn't somehow mean Batman needs to be compared to that. Brubaker did not invent characters dying. And the RIP story, if you knew anything about it, or Batman, is hardly about a death at all; its about questioning what Batman is and what he does. Careful that you don't view stories too closely through the prism of what you've read before somewhere else. Also I hardly think that Morrison needs to go ripping off ideas from other writers or companies. He craps great ideas.



Bosef, I wish you'd be more specific about the instances of shoddy writing. For one, Batman getting drugged IS shown on the page, go back and check. Apart from what's shown, what else do you really need to see? In this case Morrisons putting us in Bruce's perspective; he's attacked, we see flashes while they injecting him, he wakes up in a bin. You don't like it, fine. But don't say it's shoddy writing, it's a deliberate decision. Likewise with skipping the part with Alfred in the cave. Do you really need to see them knocking him around for a few pages? You know what happens, it's obvious, and there's other things to get to.

Part of Morrisons technique in the most recent stages of this run has been to create a feeling of disorientation and building tension. The pacing and abrupt cutting does that.

It seems crazy to me when people judge a story for not following some standard set of writing rules. That what teachers and lecturers do, tell you about rules. Writers write they're own way. And clearly alot of new Batman readers are having no trouble understanding or enjoying Morrisons run for what it is. Also it's a widely known that Morrison plans the structure of his stories to a degree that other writers would find mind-boggling and unnecessary (fractal structures and all that). Don't say he's doing it recklessly. It's just a structure you don't perceive yet. BTW the Danse Macabre is the Black Glove's whole event/attack, it's still happening, and Joker is allowed to to take a break, so what?

Read Batman & Son collected in the trade, it's a huge difference and IMO the RIP issues need to be read as part of the entire run, this is very important. I count the entire run so far as being 'RIP', and when it's all finished it's going to be redefining. You'll want to give it a chance properly and know it properly, even if you don't personally approve when all is said and done. So get in at the beginning and try with fresh eyes, it really is great set of ideas and events even if the storytelling is not to your taste. Also I wasn't saying that your kind of critiques are puerile at all, they apply to Morrison's writing a great deal. I'm talking about the "omg Batman should never die" kids and the "eww this is too weird, I don't get it, batmite wtf" comments.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Listen guy, just because you've recently read a Marvel story where the lead character dies, it doesn't somehow mean Batman needs to be compared to that. Brubaker did not invent characters dying. And the RIP story, if you knew anything about it, or Batman, is hardly about a death at all; its about questioning what Batman is and what he does. Careful that you don't view stories too closely through the prism of what you've read before somewhere else. Also I hardly think that Morrison needs to go ripping off ideas from other writers or companies. He craps great ideas.



Bosef, I wish you'd be more specific about the instances of shoddy writing. For one, Batman getting drugged IS shown on the page, go back and check. Apart from what's shown, what else do you really need to see? In this case Morrisons putting us in Bruce's perspective; he's attacked, we see flashes while they injecting him, he wakes up in a bin. You don't like it, fine. But don't say it's shoddy writing, it's a deliberate decision. Likewise with skipping the part with Alfred in the cave. Do you really need to see them knocking him around for a few pages? You know what happens, it's obvious, and there's other things to get to.

Part of Morrisons technique in the most recent stages of this run has been to create a feeling of disorientation. The pacing and abrupt cutting does that.

It seems crazy to me when people judge a story for not following some standard set of writing rules. That what teachers and lecturers do, tell you about rules. Writers write they're own way. And clearly alot of readers are having no trouble understanding or enjoying Morrisons run for what it is. Also it's a widely known that Morrison plans the structure of his stories to a degree that other writers would find mind-boggling and unnecessary (fractal structures and all that). Don't say he's doing it recklessly. It's just a structure you don't perceive yet. BTW the Danse Macabre is the Black Glove's whole event/attack, it's still happening, and Joker is allowed to to take a break, so what?

Read Batman & Son collected in the trade, it's a huge difference and IMO the RIP issues need to be read as part of the entire run, this is very important. I count the entire run so far as being 'RIP', and when it's all finished it's going to be redefining. You'll want to give it a chance properly and know it properly, even if you don't personally approve when all is said and done. Also I wasn't saying that your kind of critiques are puerile at all, they apply to Morrison's writing a great deal. I'm talking about the "omg Batman should never die" kids and the "eww this is too weird, I don't get it, batmite wtf" comments.

It's cool that you like Morrison and don't take my post as Morrison smashing but....

Morrison writes like Dickens. His stories might be a 1000 piece puzzle that fits together in the end but that means that you have to wade through all of the crap to get to the point where it makes sense.

That's not always bad and if it's done correctly the story leading up to that big "reward" is totally worth it, but for most of Morrison's work that I've read that's not the case. For most of what I've read I have to muddle through a bunch of puzzle pieces just to get a bigger piece of the puzzle. For alot of people that can take away from the entertainment value.

It's the reason that I hate shows like Lost and books like Great Expectations.

I know alot of people on here are taking for granted what this Batman RIP is about. I've never heard a DC representative say "Rest in Peace" which I think might mean something and I know that there are big things planned. Alot of people just don't want things to change and they're afraid of not having Batman around and they don't understand the whole concept.

That being said I still hate Morrison, while many people (Dan Dido...) love his work just like many people like Lost and Charles Dickens.

 

[Cain]

I always give Morrison the benefit of the doubt cause of his Animal Man run alone that's one of the greatest comic book runs ever. Up there with Neil Gaiman's Sandman and James Robinson's Starman. I haven't liked his last few Batman arcs to the point that I dropped the title picked it back up for this one though and I'm greatly enjoying it next week can't be here soon enough.

 

[rnewbz]

What do you mean Morrison's new Joker? I thought those issues were supposed to be out of continuity.

I dont think so. He's presented that way in R.I.P. which is in continuity. So someone is screwing up either way.

 

[Majic Walrus]

I dont think so. He's presented that way in R.I.P. which is in continuity. So someone is screwing up either way.

Whoa... I must have missed something. Where was the Joker during the R.I.P. stuff?

 

[The Denialist]

Whoa... I must have missed something. Where was the Joker during the R.I.P. stuff?

I think he appeared at the end of the first issue, and he's supposed to make a few more appearances in the upcoming issues as well.

 

[Hole Shot]

There is some annoying writing going on here. The only book in this arc that hasn't driven me crazy so far is Robin 175.

 

[RazTheGreat]

You made, it's the only one that has made any sense and actually done something in the story.

 

[ThreeActRomance]

i gave up on following this story arc. as good as it is, ill wait till the Trade comes out.