BvS Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 2

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I wish WB had an online poll on whether Batman should kill or not.

That should clear things up for WB :/

 

[rogue trooper]

So, Dad finally saw Batman v Superman on Tuesday (April 19th), and I went along with him.

He absolutely loved it. He considers it to be incredible and doesn't get the hate (he's read many reviews, including my spoiler-free one at my blog). He preordered the Blu Ray box set (with the Theatrical and Extended Cut) as soon as we got home, and he's thinking of seeing it again.

As for me...

A few others here said that a second viewing redeemed the film for them. I don't think I can go that far, but I absolutely liked it better the second time around. It seems that to get BvS, you have to watch it twice.

See, with the exception of the acting, I hated BvS after my initial viewing. That was, in part, because of how it failed to match my expectations. But I was prepared for that on my second viewing, and decided that instead of focusing on everything I hated (which I should say was a lot), I should just watch the film for what it is.

And that actually helped... a lot.

I was able to focus on the stuff I did like (mainly the acting). Gal Gadot and Ben Affleck impressed me even more this time around. I was able to watch past the sloppy editing to see the story underneath. The positive reviews (including Keyser Sushi's great 17-page write-up) helped a bit, I think, as I was able to see more clearly what others liked about this film, and so I was able to fill in the stuff I simply couldn't during my initial viewing.

I still can't say that I love the film. However, I can now say that I liked it for what it was. And, this time, I can say that I am okay with Zack Snyder staying on, on the condition that he either be watched very carefully or be made the head visual director of the DC Cinematic Universe, with somebody else directing the story and characters. I have already accepted that he'll be directing the first Justice League film, and so my expectations for that are in check (I'm much more hyped for Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman).

If you feel like you're able to, and you haven't, yet, definitely go in for that second viewing.

When you already know exactly what you're getting, the movie is indeed better. It is definitely more palatable, at the very least.

Incidentally, it also sort of justifies my feelings about spoilers. See, I read the full, spoilered synopsis posted in the Unabashed Spoiler thread before my first viewing, and the film still failed to match my expectations, even with them being based around that spoiler-filled, detailed synopsis. I'm still glad I read that, and I always will be, and so I will continue to seek out spoilers whenever I can (trust me... I'll be spoiling myself for Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman, and proudly).

So, in short, I'm still disappointed, but I'm no longer angry. I was able to find a few more things to like (I actually liked Lex, Senator Finch, and Doomsday better this time around, actually). I was actually able to buy into Batman better, as well. I was capable of seeing the broken Bat that they were trying to show, and can accept that arc for what it is. To be fair, Ben Affleck did a great job of making me hate Batman in the BvS fight the first time around, and this was even more true the second time around (and yes, that's a good thing, and a major reason I have so much praise for Ben's acting in this).

And I actually cried at [BLACKOUT]the death and funeral of Superman and Clark Kent[/BLACKOUT] this time around, which I really didn't on my first viewing. It hit me a lot harder this time, which I wasn't prepared for. But I think it's because I let myself just sit back and be told a story, and so got caught up in it this time, which I absolutely could not do the first time.

I do still have most of my complaints and nitpicks (the Knightmare, Diana watching Lex's files, the sloppy editing [though yes, that can be explained with the extended edition], etc), but I found it generally more enjoyable this time.

So... you know... there's my reaction to my second viewing of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

A very solid read here, Nate. Glad your dad loved it and I'm glad you liked it better this second viewing. Hope this can be the case for others as well. Indeed, Keyser Sushi's draft was quite something!

 

[Lily Adler]

Wait, what? Everyone is already dead when Supes shows up. KGBeast and his cronies are gone too.

Basically KGBeast killed them to make it look like the military job to spy on the war lord got botched due to Superman's interference of saving Lois. It's convoluted I know.

 

[javonstokess]

Basically KGBeast killed them to make it look like the military job to spy on the war lord got botched due to Superman's interference of saving Lois. It's convoluted I know.

You misspelled "Idiotic".

 

[NateHevens]

You misspelled "Idiotic".

I honestly think it'd be less idiotic if we got more time with it to see how it developed. It was edited so poorly that we don't really get a sense of what's supposed to be going on.

I could see what was going on the second time around, but that's because I knew what was happening and had read multiple write-ups from people who liked the film that included explanations for what was going on...

I still think the HISHE, Honest Trailers, and CinemaSins videos are going to be amazing and I cannot wait for them, though...

A very solid read here, Nate. Glad your dad loved it and I'm glad you liked it better this second viewing. Hope this can be the case for others as well. Indeed, Keyser Sushi's draft was quite something!

Thanks! And yeah, Keyser Sushi's draft was epic... ... and informative.

 

[javonstokess]

Honestly, if they wanted to do the "frame Superman" deal, they should have had those African's killed by laser guns.

Then it would at least make sense: "Superman fried everyone with his heat vision".

 

[Lily Adler]

I honestly think it'd be less idiotic if we got more time with it to see how it developed. It was edited so poorly that we don't really get a sense of what's supposed to be going on.

I could see what was going on the second time around, but that's because I knew what was happening and had read multiple write-ups from people who liked the film that included explanations for what was going on...

Thank you.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Honestly, if they wanted to do the "frame Superman" deal, they should have had those African's killed by laser guns.

Then it would at least make sense: "Superman fried everyone with his heat vision".

But that wouldn't be "realistic."

Spoiler

Who cares.

 

[Jaxon]

^ I wish WB had an online poll on whether Batman should kill or not.

That should clear things up for WB :/

The GA doesn't care tbh

 

[Jaxon]

Honestly, if they wanted to do the "frame Superman" deal, they should have had those African's killed by laser guns.

Then it would at least make sense: "Superman fried everyone with his heat vision".

Oh how many times. No where does anyone believe Superman killed those men directly. But his interferance in an Africa resulted in gun fire and deaths. So very clearly Senator Finch said he was responsible for that outcome, not that he is a murderer.

 

[Marvin]

Oh how many times. No where does anyone believe Superman killed those men directly. But his interferance in an Africa resulted in gun fire and deaths. So very clearly Senator Finch said he was responsible for that outcome, not that he is a murderer.

Indeed,
Biggest problem with this film
people seeing different movies then criticizing those. Now I'm reading they should have framed him for heat vision? Easy to hate a film that makes no sense.

 

[shauner111]

The GA doesn't care tbh

They should since it would be a fan poll. You know, since they're ignoring critics and box-office, and only thanking the fans for going to see the movie. They choose to only pay attention to the fans and the first weekend of box-office, yet when a fanpoll comes around, they'll probably ignore it and act like the fans opinion doesn't matter.

 

[Flint Marko]

Biggest problem with this film
people seeing different movies then criticizing those.

Oh, that's the biggest problem with BvS? It's not the film maker's fault for making a movie that fans and audiences find largely unsatisfying, it's that us detractors just didn't watch it right.
Keep blaming us and not them.

 

[Marvin]

The dangerous alien, who, with even the most rudimentary of research, Batman could have discovered was not actually responsible for the destruction of Metropolis?

I love how Man Of Steel takes great pains to show that Superman is the good guy, but then presents us with a Batman in the next film who's too moronic to also understand that.

The truth is, these two had to fight in a movie because WB thought they would earn more money from it. All other considerations - plot, character history, sense - were thrown out of the window. That's why this film fails, and that's why Marvel is kicking DC's ass.

There is some great irony to the idea that 3 years worth of detractors even with the insight of being a part of the viewing audience somehow couldn't figure out that the #manofmurder wasn't responsible for that destruction and was actually a hero. At least batman here was shown to be clouded by baggage and loss(unlike alfred who did see it, or at least even tried).
Still, a great irony.

as for earning more money, if scored correctly, at two films in I'm not sure the much would be kicking that much ass.

 

[Marvin]

Oh, that's the biggest problem with BvS? It's not the film maker's fault for making a movie that fans and audiences find largely unsatisfying, it's that us detractors just didn't watch it right.
Brilliant. Keep blaming us and not them.

Biggest problem yes.
Never said it was the only one.

As for and audiences, I suppose it's the same mans fault for making a film that fans and audiences find largely satisfying as well for I've seen plenty of both, like the detraction there are plenty of reasons people find to love or hate something. However I was actually referring to the constant stream of crying foal at plot holes that derive from poor reads.
The other day I saw someone moan about bruce's dad daying in that building. The first thing my friend said to me coming out was since when does young bruce float this is strange..., now africa. I find these things the biggest problem tbh.
And I'll "keep blaming" anyone in particular that puts one forth.

 

[Flint Marko]

Biggest problem yes.
Never said it was the only one.

As for and audiences, I suppose it's the same mans fault for making a film that fans and audiences find largely satisfying as well for I've seen plenty of both, like the detraction there are plenty of reasons people find to love or hate something. However I was actually referring to the constant stream of crying foal at plot holes that derive from poor reads.
The other day I saw someone moan about bruce's dad daying in that building. The first thing my friend said to me coming out was since when does young bruce float this is strange..., now africa. I find these things the biggest problem tbh.
And I'll "keep blaming" anyone in particular that puts one forth.

So you're continuing your crusade in insisting that the DCEU films haven't received a fair shake or are harshly judged. Last time it was the audience's fault for having too many preconceptions about Superman, this time it's their fault because it just went over their heads. You are actually claiming that the biggest problem with BvS is that people just didn't seem to understand it.
It's not that Snyder made a bad movie that is muddled and overstuffed, heavens no, it is once again the audience's fault.

 

[The Guard]

People keep coming up with logical, rational reasons Batman shouldn't have wanted to fight Superman.

But Batman's hatred of Superman wasn't rational. He was trying to rationalize it, but his reaction to Superman was very much an emotional response.

 

[The Joker]

I don't think that reasoning makes Batman's idiocy over this any more acceptable.

 

[Marvin]

So you're continuing your crusade in insisting that the DCEU films haven't received a fair shake or are harshly judged. Last time it was the audience's fault for having too many preconceptions about Superman, this time it's their fault because it just went over their heads. You are actually claiming that the biggest problem with BvS is that people just didn't seem to understand it.
It's not that Snyder made a bad movie that is muddled and overstuffed, heavens no, it is once again the audience's fault.

A few things here.
I find it pretty funny that people like you will even play this preconception card anymore. I figured the veil went completely out the window when the green light was given. Now I can't scroll a page or two without 'core of the comic book character' this or that. Every single no kill argument falls apart outside of it..I digress, just a telling observation.
But sure that was last time, this time as well actually(finally heard kevin smith the other day). As for what I'm claiming in this moment, nah I never said two words about the victim card known as asserting it went over your head, or even people didn't understand(martha). I said: "people seeing different movies then criticizing those". For I can say right now, 'I hated this movie cause Lois Lane has telepathic powers'. That has nothing to do with over my head or not understanding.. it has everything to do with seeing a different movie than what's on screen.
The point is simple, criticize the movie, not this other thing I myself wasn't privy to. It makes all these talks more simple.

Lastly, yes I find this sort of thing the biggest problem. Even with great films, even with horrible films. It's a huge problem and in this case the biggest. Never said it's the reason for bad legs or fan outrage. Just that it's the biggest problem. Even if it made the movie money I'd say that. Criticism that results from seeing bruce's dad die in that building is no bueno. Just a waste of time.

 

[Marvin]

People keep coming up with logical, rational reasons Batman shouldn't have wanted to fight Superman.

But Batman's hatred of Superman wasn't rational. He was trying to rationalize it, but his reaction to Superman was very much an emotional response.

Actually I found it a great mix of both.

There is plenty of logic in that, enough to justify and validate character motivation(sans preconceptions). The difference is that Alfred, as seen in that clip, isn't as far gone a bruce and see's past it. Emotions perhaps.
The second part is aces.

 

[Flint Marko]

A few things here.
I find it pretty funny that people like you will even play this preconception card anymore. I figured the veil went completely out the window when the green light was given. Now I can't scroll a page or two without 'core of the comic book character' this or that. Every single no kill argument falls apart outside of it..I digress, just a telling observation.
But sure that was last time, this time as well actually(finally heard kevin smith the other day). As for what I'm claiming in this moment, nah I never said two words about the victim card known as asserting it went over your head, or even people didn't understand(martha). I said: "people seeing different movies then criticizing those". For I can say right now, 'I hated this movie cause Lois Lane has telepathic powers'. That has nothing to do with over my head or not understanding.. it has everything to do with seeing a different movie than what's on screen.
The point is simple, criticize the movie, not this other thing I myself wasn't privy to. It makes all these talks more simple.

Lastly, yes I find this sort of thing the biggest problem. Even with great films, even with horrible films. It's a huge problem and in this case the biggest. Never said it's the reason for bad legs or fan outrage. Just that it's the biggest problem. Even if it made the movie money I'd say that. Criticism that results from seeing bruce's dad die in that building is no bueno. Just a waste of time.

You're looking at a message board to support your argument regarding the existence of pre-conceptions without acknowledging that the type of people who frequent internet message boards are but a microscopic portion of the general population that decides the fate of a film. You can surely find pre-conceptions here, but the general conversation around the movie beyond these walls is much bigger, multi-faceted, and important.
You are also looking at criticisms you've heard from a few friends and people on the internet and labelling it the film's biggest problem. Not the other innumerable, more frequent criticisms which discuss the actual content of the film itself and hack it right to the bone. A lot of people have a lot of problems with BvS; often times I'm finding it's the same general complaints, which certainly has merit. So I'm not sure how you can say a few people not understanding a few story points is the movie's biggest problem.

 

[shauner111]

People keep coming up with logical, rational reasons Batman shouldn't have wanted to fight Superman.

But Batman's hatred of Superman wasn't rational. He was trying to rationalize it, but his reaction to Superman was very much an emotional response.

Sure. But is that a good idea when introducing a new Batman? You're introducing him as a villainous, idiotic, emotional, rage monster of a character. Then you finish the film off with that guy basically saying "I failed Superman when he was alive, i'll try to do better by him now by looking for the good in humanity. I was an idiot, i might still be an idiot, i might still kill, but i wont brand, ill try not to, you'll just have to see in future installments if i'll do better immediately, or if it's gonna take me a while. But hey, i proved to you Diana, and to Clark, that i have the ability to be the most irrational dumb-ass around. But i want you to trust me that i can lead you two and more once i find them!"

 

[Marvin]

You're looking at a message board to support your argument regarding the existence of pre-conceptions without acknowledging that the type of people who frequent internet message boards are but a microscopic portion of the general population that decides the fate of a film. You can surely find pre-conceptions here, but the general conversation around the movie beyond these walls is much bigger, multi-faceted, and important.

You make it sound like this is the only place I'm basing this on, no I'm not looking at a message board, I'm sounding off on a message board. I do wonder how many of these internet critics on youtube made it through their videos without as much? Moreover you make it sound like nothign said here reflects anything of the real world. Pages and pages read, all time wasted cause this is just a microcosm with no insight into the real criticisms out there. Nah. Secondly the reason why the preconception argument hits so hard in this instance is because 'everyone' knows them and 'everyone' knows a finite version of them. Fans are often fickle when it comes to this in relation to the GA but when you have so many of the GA in a position to do what fans do(even coming out of nolans batman)..It's worth paying attention.

You are also looking at criticisms you've heard from a few friends and people on the internet and labelling it the film's biggest problem..

Gonna stop you right there. I find this to be the biggest problem. And a huge problem when it comes to criticism of narrative art. Before this same conversation falls into the same trap, I should clarify that much. If I were explain what is genearally maybe "biggest problem" in the context you clearly are meaning it may very well be something different(different than you are going on to explain certainly), it also wouldn't be easy to cite the actual biggest, timing, various other things, editing, story, wants vs analysis...etc. However as clarified, I find it to be the biggest problem. Otherwise known as the thing I find the most daming in the grande scheme, for hearing someone sneer over something they themselves put in the film I find a tail chasing slight to the artist. Criticize him for what's there, not some lesser film you conjured up.

 

[Marvin]

Sure. But is that a good idea when introducing a new Batman? You're introducing him as a villainous, idiotic, emotional, rage monster of a character. Then you finish the film off with that guy basically saying "I failed Superman when he was alive, i'll try to do better by him now by looking for the good in humanity. I was an idiot, i might still be an idiot, i might still kill, but i wont brand, ill try not to, you'll just have to see in future installments if i'll do better immediately, or if it's gonna take me a while. But hey, i proved to you Diana, and to Clark, that i have the ability to be the most irrational dumb-ass around. But i want you to trust me that i can lead you two and more once i find them!"

I find it a great idea. Introducing flawed idiots that are often self absorbed has been working wonders for the other guys. It makes for interesting starting points. Batman or no.
I don't see why he needed to stop branding.
Unless you are one of the people who read that as some sort of death sentence. I personally like that old batman was made batter and more hopeful thanks to superman and his sacrifice. But that's me.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I find it a great idea. Inroducing flawed idiots that are often self important has been working wonders for the other guys. It makes for interesting starting points. Batman or no.
I don't see why he needed to stop branding.
Unless you are one of the people who read that as some sort of death sentence. I personally like that old batman was made batter and more hopeful thanks to superman and his sacrifice. But that's me.

You do realize branding does nothing to child predators and human traffickers right? Child predators and molesters get treated the worst out of everybody in prison because prisoners were often abused as kids.

The branding does nothing. Criminals would still find out what someone was in for Bat brand or no.

Besides everyone in the prison was likely arrested by Batman so why would hate other inmates who have a Batbrand when they too likely were captured by Batman?

The Batband is completely pointless to the film and doesn't change anything if you take it out.