BvS Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 2

[Flint Marko]

I can all but guarantee this movie won't be looked back upon as anything other than a misfire. Maybe the extended edition will be recieved better, but the theatrical cut isn't going to grow on people as time goes on.

 

[The Joker]

I agree. Time will not be kind to this movie. It sure wasn't to Man of Steel either, and that is a better movie than this turkey.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I think at the very least the movie will gain a cult following. Similar to Hulk and Superman Returns, thought it's made far more money than those 2.

Incidentally both get re-watched and re-evaluated by people at times. Not to the point where they are suddenly massively popular movies, but where they are better thought of than when first released. I think the same could happen with BvS. But that's just me, time will tell.

 

[javonstokess]

No need to defend it to people. They'll like what they like. But next time an argument starts, tell them what I said. JJ had a tough ass job. Tougher than people give him credit for. He essentially had to launch twenty years of Star Wars movies in one shot. And he only had one shot to take. It's like the Marvel movies. Aside from Iron Man 1 the rest of their Phase 1 stuff was ok but forgettable. But it had to be done. Walk before you can run. And now both Star Wars and Marvel can run full speed ahead.

Which is what royally pisses me off about WB and these movies. They try so hard to "not be like Marvel" when they have no idea what that even means. I don't think even DC fans know what that means. They use it to make fun of tone. The Marvel way isn't making stuff light and funny, it's about anchoring your franchise is low risk, widely appealing movies so that THEN you earn the right to take risks. Once your audience trusts you. If BvS had been the fifth film in the franchise it would have been received so much better. But WB is in such a rush to get these movies out they're not thinking long term. They're building a house of cards with a wet deck. Why why why why would you do that? You want a decade of DC movies? Then do it right and you'll have TWO decades of them.

THIS sums up exactly how I feel. Pitch perfect.

 

[rogue trooper]

​

Hahaha. Ha.

Oh wait, you're serious.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I enjoyed other aspects of it quite a bit. Superman's portrayal was just its Achilles heel.

I get that. You're a Superman fan to the same degree that I am a Batman fan. That's your guy, you want him to be done a certain way because he's your favorite. That's totally fair.

There were a number of things that bothered me about that scene:

- Superman didn't notice the bomb. One could make the argument that superman thinks the best of people and therefore didn't think anyone would blow the place up. Fair enough, but Superman is also supposed to be smart, in addition to having super powers. It seems like quite a stretch for him to be completely oblivious to so many things occurring around him. This happens in the "bat is dead. Bury it" scene too. Superman just admonishes batman and then flies off. He doesn't even bother to listen or take any interest in what he just flew into. He gets punked multiple times because he just doesn't pay attention, despite all the gifts he has to make "paying attention" ridiculously easy. It doesn't make him paranoid or distrustful of humanity as as a whole if he just looks into things (especially when people he suspects of wrong-doing are already involved).

I would also make the case that this is a Superman who hasn't had any experience with bombs. It's one thing to notice sounds or anything, it's another thing to know what they are. Now, I get that this isn't going to change your mind, but this is one of the reasons I don't mind it. Now on the other hand, I would never want someone to be able to pull the same stunt on this version of the character ever again. Now he would not only be more aware, but he would recognize certain sounds or anything, that he remembers from this incident (and I expect this incident would be tattooed on his brain now, considering it's an awful thing and it really did disturb him).

- Superman didn't talk much in the movie and this scene was the most glaring example. Other characters get to give their opinions on superman and yet he gets no chance at rebuttal. This scene would have been a great opportunity to show him reassuring people, being charming, and acting confident. It would have helped us get more of his personality.

I feel this one, to an extent. I agree with you that we didn't get enough access to him as a character in this movie. I would have liked to get into his head a little bit more, to see him interacting with people. I think it's the fact that he's so stoic that makes a lot of viewers feel that he's aloof. Like, we see how much he truly does care, but we rarely hear him say it, except to Lois.

With that said, having been somebody who was a manager and had his decisions questioned a lot, I think having a character like Superman feel it necessary to explain himself to anybody, could just be perceived as weakness in the eyes of his detractors, because it puts him on the defensive. The only time you really want to see Superman on the defensive is when he's defending somebody else. But I realize that's just my opinion, formed due to my personal experience of what happens when I try to explain myself to people.

- That scene of him just standing there in the fire was weird. It would have been better if he'd been show trying to rescue people or simply looked more distressed.

The only way he could have tried to save anybody is if he'd had more time to react, or if they slowed time down, but again, all of that would negate the drama of the moment, which is meant to be a total shock. I thought he looked pretty upset, though, and as others have pointed out, he is them shown on Lois' hotel balcony talking about how upset with himself he is that he didn't see it.

I should note that superman is my main issue with the scene. I liked the moment of tension when the Senator realizes what's happening.

I liked that, too. Holly Hunter was fantastic in that scene.

 

[MrsKent26]

I would also make the case that this is a Superman who hasn't had any experience with bombs. It's one thing to notice sounds or anything, it's another thing to know what they are. Now, I get that this isn't going to change your mind, but this is one of the reasons I don't mind it. Now on the other hand, I would never want someone to be able to pull the same stunt on this version of the character ever again. Now he would not only be more aware, but he would recognize certain sounds or anything, that he remembers from this incident (and I expect this incident would be tattooed on his brain now, considering it's an awful thing and it really did disturb him).



I feel this one, to an extent. I agree with you that we didn't get enough access to him as a character in this movie. I would have liked to get into his head a little bit more, to see him interacting with people. I think it's the fact that he's so stoic that makes a lot of viewers feel that he's aloof. Like, we see how much he truly does care, but we rarely hear him say it, except to Lois.

With that said, having been somebody who was a manager and had his decisions questioned a lot, I think having a character like Superman feel it necessary to explain himself to anybody, could just be perceived as weakness in the eyes of his detractors, because it puts him on the defensive. The only time you really want to see Superman on the defensive is when he's defending somebody else. But I realize that's just my opinion, formed due to my personal experience of what happens when I try to explain myself to people.



The only way he could have tried to save anybody is if he'd had more time to react, or if they slowed time down, but again, all of that would negate the drama of the moment, which is meant to be a total shock. I thought he looked pretty upset, though, and as others have pointed out, he is them shown on Lois' hotel balcony talking about how upset with himself he is that he didn't see it.

I can see your point, about the manager thing and appearing defensive. However, they could have circumvented that by having him simply explain his purpose and outline the good he's done (and he should maintain a confident and concise manner throughout). In essence, he's not reduced to someone who's exceedingly apologetic or appears to be some shrinking violet; he's a great man outlining what he can and will do for the world. The other people in the hearing are providing the "cons" to having a superman in the world and he could present the "pros." He's giving people a reason to be on his side and he words are not empty: He's a man of his word and does what he promises. He could admit to things like "I can't be everywhere at once," but only because he wants people to still be aware and try to help themselves.

Superman, as I imagine him, is one the few people that can make a grand statement and not only make it true, but can say it without sounding like a stodgy founding father giving a patronizing "I will show you the way" speech. He doesn't need to tell people which way to go and he's humble enough to know that. He can, however, choose to live and present himself in a way that people will feel compelled to emulate.

A sample:

Senator: "Why have you stayed here on Earth? What do you want from us?

Superman: "I want to offer you something. I just wan to help as many of you as I can."

Senator: "That's really all you want?"

Superman: "Yes. Just that." *cue sincere superman smile*

That's just something I cooked up on the fly, but I'm sure you get my drift. He's not lecturing anyone and he's not shrinking away and apologizing for anything. He's simply saying: I am offering you a savior that doesn't judge, persecute or control. He's not even really asking them to accept him because he knows they will in time and he knows he has something that must be shared with the world.

As for the rest, I understand what you mean with how it was meant to be a shock and he might not know about bombs. That's all valid and reasonable, but it's just not...ideal, IMO.

 

[matt47]

I can see your point, about the manager thing and appearing defensive. However, they could have circumvented that by having him simply explain his purpose and outline the good he's done (and he should maintain a confident and concise manner throughout). In essence, he's not reduced to someone who's exceedingly apologetic or appears to be some shrinking violet; he's a great man outlining what he can and will do for the world. The other people in the hearing are providing the "cons" to having a superman in the world and he could present the "pros." He's giving people a reason to be on his side and he words are not empty: He's a man of his word and does what he promises. He could admit to things like "I can't be everywhere at once," but only because he wants people to still be aware and try to help themselves.

Superman, as I imagine him, is one the few people that can make a grand statement and not only make it true, but can say it without sounding like a stodgy founding father giving a patronizing "I will show you the way" speech. He doesn't need to tell people which way to go and he's humble enough to know that. He can, however, choose to live and present himself in a way that people will feel compelled to emulate.

A sample:

Senator: "Why have you stayed here on Earth? What do you want from us?

Superman: "I want to offer you something. I just wan to help as many of you as I can."

Senator: "That's really all you want?"

Superman: "Yes. Just that." *cue sincere superman smile*

That's just something I cooked up on the fly, but I'm sure you get my drift. He's not lecturing anyone and he's not shrinking away and apologizing for anything. He's simply saying: I am offering you a savior that doesn't judge, persecute or control. He's not even really asking them to accept him because he knows they will in time and he knows he has something that must be shared with the world.

As for the rest, I understand what you mean with how it was meant to be a shock and he might not know about bombs. That's all valid and reasonable, but it's just not...ideal, IMO.

Not a fan of that to be honest. You are making him sound too alien. Remember he was born and raised here, Jor El even says, "You are as much a child of Earth than you are of Krypton". I loved the way Superman responded to the Government in MoS when they treated him like an alien. "How do we know you won't one day act against american's interests?" "I grew up in KANSAS General...I'm about as America as it gets!".

 

[DeadStroke]

wrong thread.

 

[MrsKent26]

Not a fan of that to be honest. You are making him sound too alien. Remember he was born and raised here, Jor El even says, "You are as much a child of Earth than you are of Krypton". I loved the way Superman responded to the Government in MoS when they treated him like an alien. "How do we know you won't one day act against american's interests?" "I grew up in KANSAS General...I'm about as America as it gets!".

I thought they spread that on a little thick, to be honest. I don't think he should hide his American-ness, but there's no need to give people specifics, unless they're people he's closer with. I think he should be more of a citizen of the world for the wider public.

 

[matt47]

I thought they spread that on a little thick, to be honest. I don't think he should hide his American-ness, but there's no need to give people specifics, unless they're people he's closer with. I think he should be more of a citizen of the world for the wider public.

Oh absolutely, I just meant it was a great response to a government official asking him if he would try anything. He's just like, "Oh come on man...I just did a whole save the world mission with your army! Trust me!" t:

 

[Flint Marko]

I think at the very least the movie will gain a cult following. Similar to Hulk and Superman Returns, thought it's made far more money than those 2.

Incidentally both get re-watched and re-evaluated by people at times. Not to the point where they are suddenly massively popular movies, but where they are better thought of than when first released. I think the same could happen with BvS. But that's just me, time will tell.

It's inevitable that some people who didn't get around to seeing it after hearing the initial reviews, or kids that are too young, will eventually watch it and enjoy it. I just don't think it's going to amount to a wide-spread re-evaluation amongst the larger fan community.

 

[MrsKent26]

Oh absolutely, I just meant it was a great response to a government official asking him if he would try anything. He's just like, "Oh come on man...I just did a whole save the world mission with your army! Trust me!" t:

Oh, I see. I did like it too, for the General, because it seems like he and supes are somewhat acquainted and have some history (he said it in the drone scene, I believe?). At the hearing in BvS, he didn't have that with Finch. Not yet, anyways.

 

[Neno_Kos]

I finally watched BvS. I'll just say it nicely in puzzles analogy. Scenes if you take them individually they work. They are pretty good scenes, and fun and enjoyable. There isnt anything wrong with them. But if you watch it as complete picture of scenes put together, movie is abnomination. Long time I didnt see something similar to this. There is such a obvious lack of flow between scenes, moving from 1st to 2nd to 3rd act. How movie is progressing and pacing itself. It felt like 1st and 2nd act are same and suffering from same problems, and somehow abruptly 3rd act begins and hell start to rain.

Scenes are shifting left and right, they dont always make sense, they end up abruptly and something new completley unrelated begins and in minute or two that ends and starts with completely something new. Like "dream sequence".

Whoever edited this movie to release it did too much damage to it. Like I said individually scene works. Batman works, still not fan of this Superman, but this Superman works. I will focus on good things. I like this Bat, I want more of it. I like this Wonder Women I want more of it, I want Supes stand-alone also. For me Wondy was best part of the movie, probably cause she didnt suffer any of those pace problems. Her scenes were best of the movie, specially entrance into Doomsday fight. Her song theme is great and hyped me for stand-alone.

I am neutral on whole "Martha". Movie clearly establish it with Wayne's murder that aspect. And I have no problem with it.

What I didnt like was Lex. I personally knew and expect silly Lex, but this was to silly for me, specially the end "ding, ding, ding". Whole cinema started laughing I started facepalming. Till that point I almost buy it. Didnt personally liked the take on Lex, but I just knew we would never get good Lex in movies. He was almost more Joker than Lex.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Seeing all the positive reviews Civil War is getting, is making me upset that WB didn't seek out the proper talent to direct this film.

That could have been all the difference had WB found their own Russo brothers instead of selling the farm to Zack Snyder.

 

[The Joker]

He was almost more Joker than Lex.

That's an insult to the Joker

 

[Neno_Kos]

That's an insult to the Joker

You didnt think it this way? When Bat come to his cell, he was a Joker lvl crazy specially with that ding ding dong. Before it, with that clock timer sitting on helidrome on top of building. How he blow up a Senate. I mean we can argue that's something Lex would do or not. But he was doing some crazy lvl ** all the movie and his behaviour even for eccentric rich man was too much. He must have been crazy or on border of psychopath

 

[The Joker]

Yeah he was really over the top and goofy. Nothing like Lex Luthor should be. It was a horrible characterization, and Eisenberg was completely miscast. He was originally meant to be Jimmy Olsen. How he went from Jimmy Olsen to Lex Luthor I don't know. Especially when they might have had Bryan Cranston instead.

 

[matt47]

Yeah he was really over the top and goofy. Nothing like Lex Luthor should be. It was a horrible characterization, and Eisenberg was completely miscast. He was originally meant to be Jimmy Olsen. How he went from Jimmy Olsen to Lex Luthor I don't know. Especially when they might have had Bryan Cranston instead.

If I remember correctly, Snyder thought that Jesse made him feel uncomfortable or something...

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Because he was, like, really cooky and Snyder thought that would make up for a lack of any coherent motivation.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I feel like if in the Ultimate Cut Superman says something in the senate scene or prior to it, it's gonna turn a lot of people into big admirers of the film. Maybe it's just me, but I hear this complain more often than anything else. Mute Superman.

 

[matt47]

I feel like if in the Ultimate Cut Superman says something in the senate scene or prior to it, it's gonna turn a lot of people into big admirers of the film. Maybe it's just me, but I hear this complain more often than anything else. Mute Superman.

I don't see him saying anything in the Ultimate Cut.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I don't see him saying anything in the Ultimate Cut.

Let's wait and see. My personal impression, the first half of the film was edited the most and it's mostly Clark-Lois material. Batman's arc looks the most complete for me.

 

[matt47]

Let's wait and see. My personal impression, the first half of the film was edited the most and it's mostly Clark-Lois material. Batman's arc looks the most complete for me.

Oh for sure. I just think that if there was some dialogue from Supes in that scene we would have gotten it. But hey, I hope you are right!

 

[OutOfBoose]

I also wonder if UC will alter perception of the film similar to Aliens. One scene, one goddamn scene and the whole film feels different. Scene with Ripley, where she's holding a photo of her daughter, who died from old age, and crying, elevates her relationship with Newt on a whole new level...