BvS Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 2

[TheFlamingCoco]

Seeing all the positive reviews Civil War is getting, is making me upset that WB didn't seek out the proper talent to direct this film.

That could have been all the difference had WB found their own Russo brothers instead of selling the farm to Zack Snyder.

To be fair, that would be finding good TV writers. Give Barlanti/Guggenheim a shot at directing?

 

[Spider-jedi]

Can someone explain the bomb scene to me please?

I thought Lex did it as a way to make superman look guilty in the eyes of the public and of batman but they were able to find out that he didnt cause it. it was the guy in the wheel chair.

Also did lex plant the bomb in the chair or did the guy do it himself? i remember he already had parts in his apartment when lex showed up.

Why just kill off mercy was that having fun with the character like jim olsen

I actually want someone who like the movie to answer this questions. they have been bugging me. perhaps understanding it might raise my rating

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Can someone explain the bomb scene to me please?

I thought Lex did it as a way to make superman look guilty in the eyes of the public and of batman but they were able to find out that he didnt cause it. it was the guy in the wheel chair.

Also did lex plant the bomb in the chair or did the guy do it himself? i remember he already had parts in his apartment when lex showed up.

Why just kill off mercy was that having fun with the character like jim olsen

I actually want someone who like the movie to answer this questions. they have been bugging me. perhaps understanding it might raise my rating

1) It was to simultaneously take out the senator who was blocking Kryptonite coming into the country and stopping Lex creating a counter measure against Superman. And also to show people didn't like Superman and to some he wasn't the hero he was made out to be. To make him look worse in the public eye to see the damage he is causing.

2) I would need to see the movie again as can't remember

3) Killing Mercy would help Lex absolve himself of the crime. If he was ever suspected he could point to Mercy being one of the ones who died and why would he kill his assistant/friend. It also gives Lex more reason to demand a counter measure against Superman with government officials.

 

[KidwiththeGold]

Can someone explain the bomb scene to me please?

I thought Lex did it as a way to make superman look guilty in the eyes of the public and of batman but they were able to find out that he didnt cause it. it was the guy in the wheel chair.

Also did lex plant the bomb in the chair or did the guy do it himself? i remember he already had parts in his apartment when lex showed up.

Why just kill off mercy was that having fun with the character like jim olsen

I actually want someone who like the movie to answer this questions. they have been bugging me. perhaps understanding it might raise my rating

Basically Lex did it to make Superman look bad, his main objective was to prove Supes was a fraud to the public.That hes not a god that can save everyone. The didn't really blame supes , but beacuse supes left & went away the public wanted to know if he had something to do with it (mainly ppl that didnt trust him from the beginning, hence the snippet of Nancy Grace on the tv screen)

Lex planted the it,it was a set up.. Wallace was the perfect candidate b/c what he did with the statue.. he knew he could convince him..

Killing Mercy i think was a way to show just how diabolical Lex was, that he really didnt care about life & the extremes he would go.Plus they may not suspect him if his right hand was there.

The whole court room scene had diff meanings to both Lex & Supes ..t hats why its 1 of my fav scenes

 

[Spider-jedi]

1) It was to simultaneously take out the senator who was blocking Kryptonite coming into the country and stopping Lex creating a counter measure against Superman. And also to show people didn't like Superman and to some he wasn't the hero he was made out to be. To make him look worse in the public eye to see the damage he is causing.

2) I would need to see the movie again as can't remember

3) Killing Mercy would help Lex absolve himself of the crime. If he was ever suspected he could point to Mercy being one of the ones who died and why would he kill his assistant/friend. It also gives Lex more reason to demand a counter measure against Superman with government officials.

thanks for the answers.

After that the movie doesnt answer if people liked or hated superman more. It just drops that plot line.

 

[KidwiththeGold]

thanks for the answers.

After that the movie doesnt answer if people liked or hated superman more. It just drops that plot line.

I think the court scene is suppose to be 2 or 3 days apart from the climatic end... I think the public never blamed Supes because they already acknowledge the bomb was in the wheel chair.. I just think some were trying to stir controversy ..But by the end of the movie we can see that the public for the most part forgave superman & saw the hero that he was.(the diff memorial scenes)

 

[The Guard]

Lex likely killed Mercy to cover up all his other questionable activities, which she was present for and party to. He was tying up loose ends. She couldn't have known about the bomb, or I doubt she would have stayed in there.

The issue put forth in the film is not that people think Superman was responsible for the bomb (it's quickly discovered that Wallace Keefe had the bomb) it's that people think he should have done something and are blaming him for not saving people. There are news reports about this after it happens. This is what causes him to say he's afraid he didn't see it because he wasn't looking.

In other words, the world, at least the media portion of it, is starting to tear down their hero. And that was Luthor's plan. To show that Superman is flawed.

I think the movie makes it pretty clear how the world feels about Superman after all is said and done. Not only is he a hero, but he's also considered one of them.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Can someone explain the bomb scene to me please?

I'll try.

I thought Lex did it as a way to make superman look guilty in the eyes of the public and of batman but they were able to find out that he didnt cause it. it was the guy in the wheel chair.

It wasn't to make Superman guilty. Lex wanted to destroy Superman's godly reputation. Remember the phrase - all-powerful/not all-good, all-good/not all-powerful? By showing how he can't save everyone. Deconstructing his public image and turning him into just a man with absurd power. Not a savior.

Also did lex plant the bomb in the chair or did the guy do it himself? i remember he already had parts in his apartment when lex showed up.

Looks like Lex planted the bomb. He gave it as a present to the guy, who didn't receive financial help from Wayne (it was intercepted by Lex).

Why just kill off mercy was that having fun with the character like jim olsen

We don't know it as this point. Maybe to remove accusations from himself. Maybe Marcy will return as a cyborg in future films. Who knows...

 

[Legendver2]

No need to defend it to people. They'll like what they like. But next time an argument starts, tell them what I said. JJ had a tough ass job. Tougher than people give him credit for. He essentially had to launch twenty years of Star Wars movies in one shot. And he only had one shot to take. It's like the Marvel movies. Aside from Iron Man 1 the rest of their Phase 1 stuff was ok but forgettable. But it had to be done. Walk before you can run. And now both Star Wars and Marvel can run full speed ahead.

Which is what royally pisses me off about WB and these movies. They try so hard to "not be like Marvel" when they have no idea what that even means. I don't think even DC fans know what that means. They use it to make fun of tone. The Marvel way isn't making stuff light and funny, it's about anchoring your franchise is low risk, widely appealing movies so that THEN you earn the right to take risks. Once your audience trusts you. If BvS had been the fifth film in the franchise it would have been received so much better. But WB is in such a rush to get these movies out they're not thinking long term. They're building a house of cards with a wet deck. Why why why why would you do that? You want a decade of DC movies? Then do it right and you'll have TWO decades of them.

So you're telling me, if this was the exact same film, flaws and all, but was released as the fifth film in the DCEU following the Marvel formula, it would've been better received? Tell me, how is there not a bias again?

 

[Visualiza]

So you're telling me, if this was the exact same film, flaws and all, but was released as the fifth film in the DCEU following the Marvel formula, it would've been better received? Tell me, how is there not a bias again?

Not to speak for Poni, but I think the implication is that had BvS been the 5th movie in the franchise, it would have been different in the first place. Even it were the same, context goes a long way, but I personally don't believe it would have helped much, as it's terrible on a very fundamental level anyway.

There is bias, btw, but it isn't coming from who you think it is.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I finally watched BvS. I'll just say it nicely in puzzles analogy. Scenes if you take them individually they work. They are pretty good scenes, and fun and enjoyable. There isnt anything wrong with them. But if you watch it as complete picture of scenes put together, movie is abnomination. Long time I didnt see something similar to this. There is such a obvious lack of flow between scenes, moving from 1st to 2nd to 3rd act. How movie is progressing and pacing itself. It felt like 1st and 2nd act are same and suffering from same problems, and somehow abruptly 3rd act begins and hell start to rain.

Scenes are shifting left and right, they dont always make sense, they end up abruptly and something new completley unrelated begins and in minute or two that ends and starts with completely something new. Like "dream sequence".

Whoever edited this movie to release it did too much damage to it. Like I said individually scene works. Batman works, still not fan of this Superman, but this Superman works. I will focus on good things. I like this Bat, I want more of it. I like this Wonder Women I want more of it, I want Supes stand-alone also. For me Wondy was best part of the movie, probably cause she didnt suffer any of those pace problems. Her scenes were best of the movie, specially entrance into Doomsday fight. Her song theme is great and hyped me for stand-alone.

I am neutral on whole "Martha". Movie clearly establish it with Wayne's murder that aspect. And I have no problem with it.

What I didnt like was Lex. I personally knew and expect silly Lex, but this was to silly for me, specially the end "ding, ding, ding". Whole cinema started laughing I started facepalming. Till that point I almost buy it. Didnt personally liked the take on Lex, but I just knew we would never get good Lex in movies. He was almost more Joker than Lex.

There are five acts in this film, not three.

And the dreams always relate to what is happening in the film. I don't really understand the complaint that the scenes don't flow, but I've heard it from a lot of people. I'm just not seeing it at all.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Seeing all the positive reviews Civil War is getting, is making me upset that WB didn't seek out the proper talent to direct this film.

That could have been all the difference had WB found their own Russo brothers instead of selling the farm to Zack Snyder.

See, to me Zack is a much better director than the Russos. The Russos make everything look like a TV show. Like, I want to see Civil War, but purely because I'm invested in the characters and I love Spidey. I didn't like TWS that much at all, and while I enjoyed the trailers for Civil War, all these clips they're releasing are actually pretty lame. I don't get the Russo love, I really don't. I'm worried about the Infinity War films because the Russos aren't fit to light Joss Whedon's farts and even he couldn't save AoU.

If you think the Russos are more talented than Zack Snyder I really don't know what to tell you. But compare the cinematography in any Snyder film to anything the Russos have done. I mean come on. Any frame from BvS is prettier than any frame from CW, even if you hated BvS as a film. Come on.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I can see your point, about the manager thing and appearing defensive. However, they could have circumvented that by having him simply explain his purpose and outline the good he's done (and he should maintain a confident and concise manner throughout). In essence, he's not reduced to someone who's exceedingly apologetic or appears to be some shrinking violet; he's a great man outlining what he can and will do for the world. The other people in the hearing are providing the "cons" to having a superman in the world and he could present the "pros." He's giving people a reason to be on his side and he words are not empty: He's a man of his word and does what he promises. He could admit to things like "I can't be everywhere at once," but only because he wants people to still be aware and try to help themselves.

Superman, as I imagine him, is one the few people that can make a grand statement and not only make it true, but can say it without sounding like a stodgy founding father giving a patronizing "I will show you the way" speech. He doesn't need to tell people which way to go and he's humble enough to know that. He can, however, choose to live and present himself in a way that people will feel compelled to emulate.

A sample:

Senator: "Why have you stayed here on Earth? What do you want from us?

Superman: "I want to offer you something. I just wan to help as many of you as I can."

Senator: "That's really all you want?"

Superman: "Yes. Just that." *cue sincere superman smile*

That's just something I cooked up on the fly, but I'm sure you get my drift. He's not lecturing anyone and he's not shrinking away and apologizing for anything. He's simply saying: I am offering you a savior that doesn't judge, persecute or control. He's not even really asking them to accept him because he knows they will in time and he knows he has something that must be shared with the world.

I have no problem with any of that in theory, it's just that again...if the whole reason for the scene to exist in the film is as a way to make Superman question whether he's really able to save everybody...and indeed that was Lex's goal, as others have laid out above... then there's no point to having him explain anything to a roomful of people who are, cinematically, the walking dead. He could spend all that time explaining himself and then they're all dead, it does him no good. Which might be interesting to explore, but I suspect that many Superman fans would be just as pissed as they already are.

As for the rest, I understand what you mean with how it was meant to be a shock and he might not know about bombs. That's all valid and reasonable, but it's just not...ideal, IMO.

And I think this again comes down to me not being the Superman fan that you are. I don't really require him to be perfect in every way. I require him to always do the right thing in the end. But like I said... I'm not a hardcore Superman fan, he's just a character I loved as a kid and still enjoy casually. Batman, I have grown to love more and more over the years, that's my guy.

 

[Visualiza]

See, to me Zack is a much better director than the Russos. The Russos make everything look like a TV show. Like, I want to see Civil War, but purely because I'm invested in the characters and I love Spidey. I didn't like TWS that much at all, and while I enjoyed the trailers for Civil War, all these clips they're releasing are actually pretty lame. I don't get the Russo love, I really don't. I'm worried about the Infinity War films because the Russos aren't fit to light Joss Whedon's farts and even he couldn't save AoU.

If you think the Russos are more talented than Zack Snyder I really don't know what to tell you. But compare the cinematography in any Snyder film to anything the Russos have done. I mean come on. Any frame from BvS is prettier than any frame from CW, even if you hated BvS as a film. Come on.

That you're pleading for Bruce to agree with you here speaks volumes. Personally, I think that Snyder's visual talent is oversold. His techniques and sensibilities remind me of the HDR craze that was so pervasive in photography about a decade ago (and has now crept into the mainstream in the form of social media and mobile phones). There were a lot of people resting on HDR bracketed exposures in an effort to make their otherwise mediocre photos pop. I remember a few people calling BvS "Instagram Filter: The Movie" and, hyperbole aside, I can definitely see where they're coming from. Anyway, this is what Snyder's cinematography is to me - an exercise in excess. He seems to believe that the best way to achieve a desired effect is to assault the senses with as much noise as he can. This is among the reasons why the Bay & Emmerich comparisons are completely warranted IMO, because the guy rarely knows when to rein it in.

Other than that, I think you're selling his cinematography just a little too hard, as that's but one slice of the pie when it comes to a director's responsibilities. From my pov, the Russos have demonstrated a far superior acumen when it comes to character, themes, dialogue, storytelling, and action. For that matter, so has David Ayer and George Miller. Frankly, I'd take just about anybody at Marvel, Fox, or WB/DC over him at this point.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I enjoyed the hell out of this film. Everybody was great in it and the action was superb. Affleck and Irons are by far favourite Bats and Alfred and I'm really looking forward to Wonder Woman's solo film.

My only criticisms be opening with the Wayne murders (we all know the story and maybe the time would be better spent showing Lex's perspective on the battle in Metropolis) and that the final battle was at night-time (my criticism for every action film that does this - Joss Whedon is king for simply putting the main Avengers fights in daylight and say what you like about Michael Bay, but at least he also uses daylight) - though that said it was very well done and easier to actually see than most night battles.

Is Gotham in the comics that close to Metropolis ttgat the Bat Signal is visible? Or has the movie altered the geography of DC America?

Not a criticism, as maybe I'm wrong, but does anyone else think that Lex was a little too nuts in that final scene?

Superman will be resurrected in Justice League but is Clark Kent dead (as far as the world knows) for the rest of these franchise?

 

[Quasimod0]

See, to me Zack is a much better director than the Russos. The Russos make everything look like a TV show. Like, I want to see Civil War, but purely because I'm invested in the characters and I love Spidey. I didn't like TWS that much at all, and while I enjoyed the trailers for Civil War, all these clips they're releasing are actually pretty lame. I don't get the Russo love, I really don't. I'm worried about the Infinity War films because the Russos aren't fit to light Joss Whedon's farts and even he couldn't save AoU.

If you think the Russos are more talented than Zack Snyder I really don't know what to tell you. But compare the cinematography in any Snyder film to anything the Russos have done. I mean come on. Any frame from BvS is prettier than any frame from CW, even if you hated BvS as a film. Come on.

Good cinematography and interesting shots do not make a good film, as we saw with BvS. The Russos know how to get you to care for the characters, and they respect the characters as well.

 

[WBwins]

So envious of Marvel fanbase right now.Here we are fighting over the Flaws of Bvs whilst the Marvel fanbase rejoices in unity at the success of Civil war.
Why Snyder?Why didn't you jus listen?

 

[NateHevens]

See, to me Zack is a much better director than the Russos. The Russos make everything look like a TV show. Like, I want to see Civil War, but purely because I'm invested in the characters and I love Spidey. I didn't like TWS that much at all, and while I enjoyed the trailers for Civil War, all these clips they're releasing are actually pretty lame. I don't get the Russo love, I really don't. I'm worried about the Infinity War films because the Russos aren't fit to light Joss Whedon's farts and even he couldn't save AoU.

If you think the Russos are more talented than Zack Snyder I really don't know what to tell you. But compare the cinematography in any Snyder film to anything the Russos have done. I mean come on. Any frame from BvS is prettier than any frame from CW, even if you hated BvS as a film. Come on.

But that is quite literally ALL BvS has. It is, without a doubt, a beautiful film. In fact, it's one of the most beautiful-looking films I've seen in a long time.

But the Russos know how to tell a damn story. They know how to make the audience care about the characters. They know how to craft and sustain an arc.

I have seen zero evidence that Snyder is good at any of that.

Now, if Snyder were simply a visual director, with someone like the Russos directing story and plot and characters and arcs, BvS might have even been Oscar-worthy.

Snyder can direct all the visuals he wants. I will collect screenshots of his movies, and I do! He is a brilliant visual director with a masterful understanding of how to make something look cool.

But when you are the head director of a film, you need to be good at more than that... and Snyder isn't.

 

[Flint Marko]

MoS was a beautiful film. BvS, for the most part, looked like a really expensive video game.

But that is quite literally ALL BvS has. It is, without a doubt, a beautiful film. In fact, it's one of the most beautiful-looking films I've seen in a long time.

But the Russos know how to tell a damn story. They know how to make the audience care about the characters. They know how to craft and sustain an arc.

I have seen zero evidence that Snyder is good at any of that.

Now, if Snyder were simply a visual director, with someone like the Russos directing story and plot and characters and arcs, BvS might have even been Oscar-worthy.

Snyder can direct all the visuals he wants. I will collect screenshots of his movies, and I do! He is a brilliant visual director with a masterful understanding of how to make something look cool.

But when you are the head director of a film, you need to be good at more than that... and Snyder isn't.

I think you're over-selling BvS' aesthetics, again I found it to be a huge step-down from MoS, but agreed with everything else here.

 

[STARMAN]

I rather have great characters than great cinematography.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I have no problem with any of that in theory, it's just that again...if the whole reason for the scene to exist in the film is as a way to make Superman question whether he's really able to save everybody...and indeed that was Lex's goal, as others have laid out above... then there's no point to having him explain anything to a roomful of people who are, cinematically, the walking dead. He could spend all that time explaining himself and then they're all dead, it does him no good. Which might be interesting to explore, but I suspect that many Superman fans would be just as pissed as they already are.

And to destroy people's faith in Superman as a savior. I also don't get why people want him to speak in that scene so much. It's useless there. The point of the scene is different.

 

[OutOfBoose]

But that is quite literally ALL BvS has. It is, without a doubt, a beautiful film. In fact, it's one of the most beautiful-looking films I've seen in a long time.

Nonsense.

But the Russos know how to tell a damn story. They know how to make the audience care about the characters. They know how to craft and sustain an arc.

Zack knows how to tell a story too.

I have seen zero evidence that Snyder is good at any of that.

If BvS doesn't satisfy you, what about 300, DotD, MoS?

 

[Legendver2]

I rather have great characters than great cinematography.

 

[The Guard]

And to destroy people's faith in Superman as a savior. I also don't get why people want him to speak in that scene so much. It's useless there. The point of the scene is different.

Because people want what is familiar and comfortable.

And the Superman they are familiar and comfortable does these things

Also, Superman telling the world he's here to help by saving people gives us insight into his character that...showing him helping by saving people doesn't.

Really I think it's mostly that they wanted Superman to take part in the dialogue, rather than being the dialogue.

 

[STARMAN]

I didn't feel got both.