Batman Vs. Superman Who Would Win

[Captain Marvel]

Ah Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. =) I purchased the hardcover which actually extends the Batman scene. Superman just takes the kryptonite and destroys it with his fists, thats the thing with Superman, he can ensure not a single atom/piece of Kryptonite would ever get inhaled to his lungs or wound him criticically, he IS Superman after all.

Brian Azzarello is a great writer, sure in both Luthor and Joker hardcovers Batman is a villain, but the way he writes him, Luthor, Joker and the hero Superman is great.

Yeah, that's the one. I was racking my brains trying to remember what the title was. And the Batman scene's extended? Fantastic. I honestly would've liked to have seen a lot more to it. Not to mention that the fight wasn't really explained, except to lay the groundwork for Bruce Wayne buying into Lex Luthor's anti-Superman plan.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Are you implying Superman has a hard time to use his speed to just take the belt and destroy the kryptonite? What is this? Superman the slowest man of steel?

Yes because the man who can run as fast as speed of light would just stand confused, clearly.

LOL! Yeah, I was going to point that out, too. Even if Batman lines all the pouches in his utility belt with lead, so what? Superman can just rip the belt off and reduce it to dust, or reduce it to ash with his heat vision. Either way, problem solved.

And yeah, I don't get why anyone thinks Superman's going to be going to a fight afraid of even lifting a finger against Batman in case he might hurt him. He fights regular humans all the time in Metropolis when he stops regular crimes. He learned years ago how hard he could hit a regular human without seriously hurting them. He's not going to be going into any fight with Batman wringing his hands and worrying that he might seriously hurt him.

 

[Drz]

Yep agreed Captain Marvel. The Lex Luthor Man of Steel hardcover is entitled "Luthor" kinda like how "Joker" was simpy Joker instead of "Joker: The Dark Knight" which was the original title.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

On the issue of the power disparity, a big factor that I don't see often mentioned in this thread by those in favor of Superman is that his power level and weaknesses varies between incarnation, and overall, he lacks consistency. Not every Superman incarnation can move planets or fly faster than the speed of light. Some have superhuman intelligence, others are of only above-average human intellect. That inconsistency is a big x-factor in the fight. Some of them, such as The Dark Knight Returns Superman, Batman can beat. Others, such as All-Star Superman, I doubt he could.

The same can be said of Batman too. The Batman from The Dark Knight got his butt handed to him by some dogs.

And in the comics apparently there is the JLA version of Batman who is the most powerful being in the universe and the version in the Batman comic who struggles to beat The Penguin, Catwoman, and The Riddler.

Off topic, but what about Lex Luthor: If him beating Superman is utterly impossible (because if it's true for Batman, then it is doubly so for Lex), then is there any point in him being Superman's archenemy? Doesn't that remove any suspense from their battles?

Agreed that Luthor is a terrible villain. Yet another quandary for DC that Lex is the most well-known Supes villain....so they have to use him again and again. Supes should publicly hand him over to Batman. "Here...you take this guy...he's more your speed."

Still, the point of removing the capability gap so that it there wouldn't be such a huge power disparity. They would have the same options in this hypothetical battle, so it would just be down to how they use them, the way they fight and think.

But again...that's not Superman vs Batman if you do that. I do think Bats has a shot if you take away Supes powers....but Batman isn't fighting Superman then.

Also interesting that another way for Batman to "win" is to have Superman choose not to use his powers on Batman. I suppose illogical things like that are the only recourse for a writer to come up with a way for Batman, apparently in possession of a fan base that insists he be utterly unbeatable by anyone, to beat Superman in a fight....a character that Batman fans claim to dislike because he is unbeatable by anyone.

So to the earlier question...what separates Luthor from Batman...and what would make Luthor more capable of challenging or even beating Superman? Well...Luthor is ^%$#'ing evil...he'd let a young child get killed if it helped him, Batman wouldn't. So if it came to something like that, Batman wouldn't cross that line, whereas Luthor would leap it without hesitation.

There is that...but still....I wish there was a way to hand Luthor over to Batman and let Supes deal with the cosmic problems.

 

[Godzilla2014]

The same can be said of Batman too. The Batman from The Dark Knight got his butt handed to him by some dogs.

And in the comics apparently there is the JLA version of Batman who is the most powerful being in the universe and the version in the Batman comic who struggles to beat The Penguin, Catwoman, and The Riddler.

True.

Agreed that Luthor is a terrible villain. Yet another quandary for DC that Lex is the most well-known Supes villain....so they have to use him again and again. Supes should publicly hand him over to Batman. "Here...you take this guy...he's more your speed."

I have to say that Lex Luthor is a great arch-nemesis for Superman on a philosophical level. That said, it might be interesting if he did become Batman's villain.

But again...that's not Superman vs Batman if you do that. I do think Bats has a shot if you take away Supes powers....but Batman isn't fighting Superman then.

Also interesting that another way for Batman to "win" is to have Superman choose not to use his powers on Batman. I suppose illogical things like that are the only recourse for a writer to come up with a way for Batman, apparently in possession of a fan base that insists he be utterly unbeatable by anyone, to beat Superman in a fight....a character that Batman fans claim to dislike because he is unbeatable by anyone.

It is ironic. The difference is that Batman beats opponents using his mind, while Superman does it with brute force. Batman defeating Superman is a triumph of strategy and tactics over raw physical power, while Superman defeating Batman is a triumph of raw physical power over strategy and tactics.

There is that...but still....I wish there was a way to hand Luthor over to Batman and let Supes deal with the cosmic problems.

Might be interesting.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Whoever the writer prefers.

 

[psylockolussus]

Superman, he can just throw asteroid-size rock to Batman and Batman will be defeated.

 

[Green__Lantern]

Batman wins easy. Brains beat Brawn. Not only does he have a shard of Kryptonite, he would be able to examine the molecular structure of it and create duplicates of it and mass produce it through Wayne Enterprises. Can you imagine what would happen if a Krypto-Batarang caught Supe upside the head?

 

[bugman]

i agree that superman's intelligence is often underrated. really, most of his primary villains are brilliant--lex luthor, braniac--so i think, if he's in the right frame of mind, no one is going to outsmart him. but yes, batman is cunning, dirty, and ultimately willing to go farther. i think back to superman's killing of general zod back in the day; supes can find the mentality if he needs to. now, i like batman better (slightly) than superman, and i certainly enjoyed seeing bats kick his ass in the dark knight, but, at the end of the day, i think supes would prevail. i think nowadays he knows what to expect from batman, and i think he would rise to the occasion.

 

[Donut]

Batman wins easy. Brains beat Brawn. Not only does he have a shard of Kryptonite, he would be able to examine the molecular structure of it and create duplicates of it and mass produce it through Wayne Enterprises. Can you imagine what would happen if a Krypto-Batarang caught Supe upside the head?

That would pretty much mean Batman does not win in a fair fight using Kryptonite. That is pretty much cheating using Kryptonite. When in a fair fight Superman would win easily

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Superman could just outrun the Batarang ya know.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

In a movie? Batman would win on a physical level, due to kryptonite and some creativity, while Superman would win on an emotional and conceptual level, winning Batman to his cause... and then they'd go hand some poor villain his ass...

Like Magpie!

 

[Captain Marvel]

Batman wins easy. Brains beat Brawn. Not only does he have a shard of Kryptonite, he would be able to examine the molecular structure of it and create duplicates of it and mass produce it through Wayne Enterprises. Can you imagine what would happen if a Krypto-Batarang caught Supe upside the head?

Umm... did you even read the thread? If not, look upthread and you'll find this.

Superman outright pulls a chunk of kryptonite out of Batman's utility belt and crushes it.

Point is, it's pretty clear you don't have a clue how kryptonite works. It doesn't instantly kill/cripple Superman the moment it touches him. It takes time to work on him. Superman can certainly act fast enough to completely crush Batman before he even starts to feel the effects of the kryptonite.

Secondly, your scenario is, to put it bluntly, idiotic. You just presume that Batman will fling a kryptonite batarang at Superman, hit him on the head, and knock him out. That's beyond stupid. As I said, it takes time for kryptonite to work on Superman. So bopping him over the head with a kryptonite batarang won't do much. It certainly isn't an automatic "I WIN!" button for Batman.

And even if just having it graze his forehead was instantly deadly, there're a million things that Superman could do to avoid getting hit by it. He's faster than the speed of light. You don't think he can dodge out of the way before it hits him? He flies, so he can easily stay out of Batman's throwing arm range. He could shoot the batarang out of the air with his heat vision. He could blow the batarang back at Batman with his super-breath. He could rip a chunk of rock out of the ground and block it. Either way, if Superman doesn't want to get hit by Batman's batarangs, he could easily avoid it.

Moreover, he's superfast. In the time it takes Batman to even think about using a kryptonite batarang at Superman, much less grabbing it, Superman could move at light speed and beat Batman senseless. He could burn him to ash with his heat vision. He could freeze him with his super-breath. He could punch the ground so hard that the quake will knock Batman flat, and maybe even create a fissure in the earth that'll swallow Batman. He could fly up into space, grab an asteroid or a satellite, and chuck it at Batman from orbit.

Either way, there's no way at all that your scenario would ever result in a Batman win. Even a brain damaged Superman with the mental capacities of a two-year-old could still easily beat Batman under that set of circumstances. Hell, that Superman would be even more dangerous, as he'd have less control, and would probably just kill Batman, as opposed to knocking him cold.

 

[Drz]

It is ironic. The difference is that Batman beats opponents using his mind, while Superman does it with brute force. Batman defeating Superman is a triumph of strategy and tactics over raw physical power, while Superman defeating Batman is a triumph of raw physical power over strategy and tactics.

Again you not only show your lack of knowledge on Superman, but also ignoring other peoples' posts, again i'll use All Star Superman as a good example, because really it's sucha definite Superman book: Lex Luthor has become as powerful as Superman and withouth his weaknesses, Superman is about to die and what does he do? He outsmarts Luthor by using the gravity gun on him, because the gravity mass makes time move faster for Lex Luthor, thats simple science right there and when Superman wins Luthor he simply states: Brain beats brawn, everytime:

Batman wins easy. Brains beat Brawn. Not only does he have a shard of Kryptonite, he would be able to examine the molecular structure of it and create duplicates of it and mass produce it through Wayne Enterprises. Can you imagine what would happen if a Krypto-Batarang caught Supe upside the head?

I can imagen Superman just not ignoring the radiation he would feel and allow himself to get attacked, why doesn't he just destroy the object? Brain beats brawn everytime, and Superman is smarter than this.

 

[Green__Lantern]

Umm... did you even read the thread? If not, look upthread and you'll find this.

Superman outright pulls a chunk of kryptonite out of Batman's utility belt and crushes it.

Point is, it's pretty clear you don't have a clue how kryptonite works. It doesn't instantly kill/cripple Superman the moment it touches him. It takes time to work on him. Superman can certainly act fast enough to completely crush Batman before he even starts to feel the effects of the kryptonite.

Secondly, your scenario is, to put it bluntly, idiotic. You just presume that Batman will fling a kryptonite batarang at Superman, hit him on the head, and knock him out. That's beyond stupid. As I said, it takes time for kryptonite to work on Superman. So bopping him over the head with a kryptonite batarang won't do much. It certainly isn't an automatic "I WIN!" button for Batman.

And even if just having it graze his forehead was instantly deadly, there're a million things that Superman could do to avoid getting hit by it. He's faster than the speed of light. You don't think he can dodge out of the way before it hits him? He flies, so he can easily stay out of Batman's throwing arm range. He could shoot the batarang out of the air with his heat vision. He could blow the batarang back at Batman with his super-breath. He could rip a chunk of rock out of the ground and block it. Either way, if Superman doesn't want to get hit by Batman's batarangs, he could easily avoid it.

Moreover, he's superfast. In the time it takes Batman to even think about using a kryptonite batarang at Superman, much less grabbing it, Superman could move at light speed and beat Batman senseless. He could burn him to ash with his heat vision. He could freeze him with his super-breath. He could punch the ground so hard that the quake will knock Batman flat, and maybe even create a fissure in the earth that'll swallow Batman. He could fly up into space, grab an asteroid or a satellite, and chuck it at Batman from orbit.

Either way, there's no way at all that your scenario would ever result in a Batman win. Even a brain damaged Superman with the mental capacities of a two-year-old could still easily beat Batman under that set of circumstances. Hell, that Superman would be even more dangerous, as he'd have less control, and would probably just kill Batman, as opposed to knocking him cold.

So basically what you are saying is that the smartest mind in all of comics could not use Supermans one weakness to defeat him. The batarang thing, while amatuerish, was just a whim. He could invent a Bat suit laced with Kryptonite so Supe couldnt touch him, or a lead suit so that that he couldnt be seen in the shadows. So he crushed the rock from his utility belt? Does that mean that Batman hadnt already copied its molecular structure? You say my scenario is stupid but wow! How stupid is it to say that Superman could not be beaten by his one weakness? I guess you dont understand that Superman has been beaten hundreds of times with Kryptonite. That is what makes him beatable. Why didnt he just stop anyone that has ever used it before? Why, since it has no immediate effect and he is faster than the speed of light, does he not use his super speed, strentgh, heat vision and super breath to just fly around the whole world and destroy every peice of Kryptonite within a matter of minutes? Then he would be unstoppable. To argue that Batman could not beat Superman because Kryptonite would not work is stupid. A batarang is an exapmle, perhaps a lame example, but use a little deductive reasoning. He wouldnt only develop batarangs.

 

[Green__Lantern]

That would pretty much mean Batman does not win in a fair fight using Kryptonite. That is pretty much cheating using Kryptonite. When in a fair fight Superman would win easily

So a fair fight would be Superman being able to use all of his powers, but Batman cant use his brain? Whats fair about that?

 

[Green__Lantern]

i agree that superman's intelligence is often underrated. really, most of his primary villains are brilliant--lex luthor, braniac--so i think, if he's in the right frame of mind, no one is going to outsmart him. but yes, batman is cunning, dirty, and ultimately willing to go farther. i think back to superman's killing of general zod back in the day; supes can find the mentality if he needs to. now, i like batman better (slightly) than superman, and i certainly enjoyed seeing bats kick his ass in the dark knight, but, at the end of the day, i think supes would prevail. i think nowadays he knows what to expect from batman, and i think he would rise to the occasion.

Legit argument. Batman is a really dark hero, but at the end of the day, he is human, Supe aint. Push comes to shove, and Batman is whipping him to bad, he could threaten an number of human lives and fights over. I dont think Bats would sacrifice that much.

 

[Captain Marvel]

He could invent a Bat suit laced with Kryptonite so Supe couldnt touch him

Once again, Superman has both heat vision and super-breath. He can also fly and has superstrength. He doesn't need to touch Batman. He can carve Batman right out of his kryptonite armor from miles away with his heat vision if he so chose, or freeze him with his breath. Or he could hurl all sorts of massive objects at Batman.

or a lead suit so that that he couldnt be seen in the shadows.

LOL! Lead doesn't make you invisible to Superman. He just can't use his X-Ray Vision to see what's behind something made of lead. Superman would see Batman in his dinky lead suit just fine.

So he crushed the rock from his utility belt? Does that mean that Batman hadnt already copied its molecular structure? You say my scenario is stupid but wow!

Wow, talk about completely misinterpreting the argument I made. The point I was making was that Batman had kryptonite on him, and not only did it not save him, but Superman outright touched it and then crushed it to powder with his bare hand. Who cares if Batman reproduced it? The end result would've been the same. And given what happened in that fight, had Superman wanted to really make a point, then Batman would've never had the chance to go back and get any more of that kryptonite.

How stupid is it to say that Superman could not be beaten by his one weakness? I guess you dont understand that Superman has been beaten hundreds of times with Kryptonite.

Superman's beaten every single person who ever used kryptonite against him, particularly when used by one of the most brilliant men on Earth (Lex Luthor) who's used technology FAR more powerful and advanced than anything Batman has used on a regular basis, up to and including a suit of power armor which makes him nearly as powerful as Superman and fires kryptonite energy beams. So yes, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that Batman can't beat him, even with kryptonite.

That is what makes him beatable. Why didnt he just stop anyone that has ever used it before?

Umm... he has. That's why he's still alive while they all invariably ended up in prison.

 

[Drz]

So basically what you are saying is that the smartest mind in all of comics could not use Supermans one weakness to defeat him. The batarang thing, while amatuerish, was just a whim. He could invent a Bat suit laced with Kryptonite so Supe couldnt touch him, or a lead suit so that that he couldnt be seen in the shadows.

First, i hope you know that high exposure of Kryptonite would ultimately damage Batman himself if he kept wearing something like that? Also him wearing kryptonite would not stop Superman from using his breath, gadgets or eye beams at all, and also Superman *can* see lead, Batman covering himself in lead would mean he can't see Batman's skin, but he can see the lead. Also how would Batman sneak on Superman? Case in point:

Superman can hear all the heartbeats on the planet and identitfy Bruce's, theres no sneaking around with Superman, he can hear you breath, foot steps your body movement, everything.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that Lead is very poisonious, so you're really endangering Batman here with these costumes.

So he crushed the rock from his utility belt? Does that mean that Batman hadnt already copied its molecular structure? You say my scenario is stupid but wow! How stupid is it to say that Superman could not be beaten by his one weakness? I guess you dont understand that Superman has been beaten hundreds of times with Kryptonite.

Superman beaten? Last time i checked he's the one whos been saving the world countless times.

That is what makes him beatable. Why didnt he just stop anyone that has ever used it before? Why, since it has no immediate effect and he is faster than the speed of light, does he not use his super speed, strentgh, heat vision and super breath to just fly around the whole world and destroy every peice of Kryptonite within a matter of minutes?

The same reason Batman can't simply put Arkham Inmates around Green Lantern Corp prison but has them over Arkham so they can escape over and over again, it's one of the flaws of comics, but ultimately why should Superman waste minutes on that, when he can use those minutes to save those who are in need of saving?

Then he would be unstoppable. To argue that Batman could not beat Superman because Kryptonite would not work is stupid. A batarang is an exapmle, perhaps a lame example, but use a little deductive reasoning. He wouldnt only develop batarangs.

Well tell you what, come up with a better plan how Batman can defeat Superman and we can debate whenever it can work or not, just rememebr all his powers.

 

[Raiden]

Superman should win, unless the editors of DC wanted to keep Batman's mystique about beating anyone given time & preparation intact. Batman's only real hope vs Superman is kryptonite, and Superman is not so vulnerable that he'd lose everytime he comes in close proximity with one. Besides, he can always get away quick using his super speed and flight, then bombard Batman's location from afar. I just don't see how Batman can really beat Superman, but I'm sure writers can come up with some new, unexplained reasoning.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Batman's only real hope vs Superman is kryptonite, and Superman is not so vulnerable that he'd lose everytime he comes in close proximity with one.

Yep. Batman using kryptonite against Superman is hardly a novel concept. Half of Superman's rogues gallery use kryptonite against him, and he still beats them.

Lex Luthor - He uses a massive suit of power armor which makes him far more powerful than most of the super-heroes in the DCU, and makes him a near match for Superman! And in addition to that power, his armor is equipped with kryptonite energy beams. And yet despite that, Superman still beats him.

Metallo - Another technological monstrosity nearly the match of Superman. And once again, he also has kryptonite, in the form of his kryptonite heart. Not only can he open his chest to expose Superman to its radiation, but I've seen versions where he can fire kryptonite energy beams, too. And yet once again, he still loses to Superman.

Kryptonite Man - This guys name is "Kryptonite Man". That should be a pretty big hint as to what his power is. Forget a kryptonite suit. This guy's walking kryptonite. And yet, once again, Superman has also beaten him like a rented mule.

Right there you have three villains who, along with kryptonite, bring an immense amount of power into the mix in a fight against Superman. Much more than anything that Batman can bring to bear. Not to mention that one of them is one of the most brilliant minds on Earth and, like Batman, has nearly inexhaustible resources (With the difference being that he makes MUCH better weapons. Batman makes Batmobiles and Batarangs. Luthor makes god-like suits of power armor and killer robots), and yet Superman still trounces them all.

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Superman and Wonder Woman have gone at it a few times. I've seen Wonder Woman use magic weapons in some fights, and kryptonite in others.

Either way, Superman still beat her.

 

[Raiden]

You can also gauge how powerful the superhero is by the villains they fight against. Batman primarily fight against crazed maniacs, thieves, criminal masterminds, and some mutants, whereas Superman fight against an intelligent man with almost infinite resources, aliens who can destroy Earth, and other world eaters. You can switch the rogue galleries and see how well Batman can fare against villains like Brainiac, General Zod, Doomsday, and Darkseid, and Superman face off against Joker, Two-Face, Riddler, and Killer Croc. Who do you know will do better in their respective battles?

 

[Captain Marvel]

I remember an episode of Superman: TAS where they did just that. Batman disappeared so, in order to keep order in Gotham and find out what happened to Batman, Robin recruited Superman to pretend he was Batman. It went about as well as you'd expect. A bunch of villains had teamed up to take down Batman all at once. For Batman, that would've been a hard fight, but Superman just steamrolled them all. It was pretty embarassing. As for Batman, you knw what happened to him?

He was possessed by Brainiac and needed Superman to save him.

That episode tells the story pretty succintly. Superman barely notices Batman's villains while Batman is completely helpless against just one of Superman's enemies.

 

[Godzilla2014]

On the issue of this battle, I think a lot of people base it on who they want to win, not necessarily who would win in a real fight.

Sure, Superman could flatten Batman (even with Kryptonite), that would make the Kryptonite entirely pointless. The whole point of Kryptonite is to be a "great equalizer" that could allow even a mere mortal to bring the Man of Steel to his knees.

Batman wins all the time because if he couldn't, Superman becomes terrifying, not inspiring, because there would be no check on his power. He goes from "I'm happy to help!" to "You only live because I allow you to.". Someone must be able to stand up to him if he should go rogue, and Batman is the best candidate for the job.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I remember an episode of Superman: TAS where they did just that. Batman disappeared so, in order to keep order in Gotham and find out what happened to Batman, Robin recruited Superman to pretend he was Batman. It went about as well as you'd expect. A bunch of villains had teamed up to take down Batman all at once. For Batman, that would've been a hard fight, but Superman just steamrolled them all. It was pretty embarassing. As for Batman, you knw what happened to him?

He was possessed by Brainiac and needed Superman to save him.

That episode tells the story pretty succintly. Superman barely notices Batman's villains while Batman is completely helpless against just one of Superman's enemies.

And I am sure most anyone would need help after being possessed by Brainiac. You remember World's Finest? Batman saved Superman's ass from Kryptonite. He's also done well in the Justice League serving alongside Superman. To make him out as totally useless in comparison to Superman is disingenuous. Hell, I have heard Superman doubting he would be as heroic as Batman is w/o his Kryptonian powers.