Batman Vs. Superman Who Would Win

[Ultra Lantern]

Given time to prepare, Batman. In a straight up battle no time to prepare, Superman.

I agree.

 

[Drz]

What? Is this a common power?

It's an invention that he build.

In the comics he does.

You have failed to prove this time after time, you can't even make a single fictional fight withouth making Superman the underdog and Batman the perfect human being while cheering for him.

And writers keep bringing it up.

Point me a fight where they're both giving it all and fightning for real.

Fine, I haven't read every issue of every character. Sue me.

And you pretend you know so much about these and keep getting corrected while being stubborn and ignoring context.

Yes, both believe in similar things, but they are very different characters. Batman is a dark, grim character, but Superman is a light, cheery character. Superman is a very powerful character, but Batman is only human. Ironically, they have similar costumes:

Again you're talking about stuff you have no information whatsoever about. Read a comic book for pete's sake.

No. Batman is the underdog because he has to fight tooth and nail to do what Superman could do without even paying attention. Superman flattens things that give Batman trouble. Batman fights smarter because he has to.

But your Superman has no common sense whatsoever, he doesn't know how to save himself whatsoever againts the mighty overlord Batman. He's the underdog of the story until he becomes
1) Self aware
2) Acknowledges the situation
3) Knows how to use his body
4) Has his brain fixed
5) Knows how to think.

Superman is the underdog in your fictions. ROOT for the Underdog.

Could you point me in the direction of some great examples of the rivalry between Superman and Lex Luthor, preferably that I could find in a TPB?

How about the Luthor trade which we've been talking about and you ignoring for a good while now? Thats a good example of a single solid self-contained story. Superman: Red Son which we've also used as an example in this debate reminding you that Superman is faster than thought and thus things such as a Green Lantern ring are useless. Also All Star Superman which we've also told you about multiple of times and you've chosen to ignore.

I remember Batman once made an armor to fight Bizarro alongside Superman and Wonder Woman in a Trinity comic? Granted, the throat armor was dented in and Batman nearly choked, but I know he's done it.

When you say "i remember" you mean you saw this comic in person or you read about it the internet? I mean is this Matt Wagner's trinity or the trinity series? Wagner's trinity had Bizarro break loose from the lasso of truth (you can't do that) him attacking Wonder Woman faster than speed of light. Batman comes with a special electric rod, jumps at him and Bizarro doesn't use his super speed to dodge, but just allows himself to get defeated because the story sucks and it's biased.

 

[KneelBeforeZod]

EDIT: Gah my message was so poorly spelled and even in accurate, here i go again:

Batman at his heart does hold back, he's not willing to murder but he is willing to use a gun if it helps crippling the god of evil and saving the human he's using as a host. Superman however has been showing murdering people such as Zod, Darkseid, Doomsday and putting criminals into the Phantom Zone where they cannot escape, and yeah guys don't even think Superman would let Batman be put into the zone with any gadgets, he'll take them out of him.

Clark wouldn't hold back if he had no choice, he is a fighter not a martyr saint like in Superman Returns, thats just Bryan Singer making Superman into a wuss. TDKR is a good example of Superman holding back, he even lets Batman escape his death because of respect and friendship, in TDKSA he meant serious business, but Batman wans't alone anymore, he was ready to defeat anyone with his Justice League that Superman ultimately even helps.

That's kinda my point. In both Hush (when Superman was Ivy-possessed) and TDKR, Clark held back to an even greater extent than Bruce did. Bruce won't kill anyone. Other than that, he has no code. Bruce has allies, but few friends (and he's even suspicious of his "friends"). And, he is so single-minded that he won't hesitate to steamroll a friend (short of killing them) if the situation calls for it.

Clark won't maim a friend -- even if the situation calls for it. He'll be brutal with Doomsday, Zod, etc., but he won't crack Bruce's spine over his knee. I think Bruce might crack Clark's spine over his knee given the opportunity, and if it served his purpose. Superman doesn't always fight for a stalemate ... but he does when he's fighting with Bruce.

JB

 

[Godzilla2014]

Because they're all equally as human as he? This is an incredibly asinine comment. Because a bunch of villains with normal human strength can't beat Batman, you think a guy who punches out gods can't likewise overcome him?

What I am saying is that your argument was a bad one. Many of the villains that use Superman's weaknesses against him, like Metallo does with Kryptonite, are sufficiently powerful enough to give him trouble without Kryptonite. Likewise, Batman's villains do try to shoot him (exploiting his human non-invulnerability), but it fails as well. Just because it doesn't work, doesn't mean that it couldn't.

He doesn't.

Often he does.

Once again, look upthread. Scans were put up where Superman beat Batman like a rented mule.

Ok.

You have it backwards, chief. Batman doesn't compare at all to Lex Luthor. This is what we're talking about, after all.

The argument that Luthor is weaker than Batman is as silly as saying that Tony Stark is weaker than Daredevil. Sure, in a barehanded fist fight Tony Stark would be at a disadvantage, but Tony Stark doesn't go into fights in a business suit. He goes into them wearing his Iron Man armor. Likewise, when Luthor goes into a fight, he wears his battlesuit. And when he wears his battlesuit he's far beyond anything Batman can do.

Of course Lex Luthor uses a battle armor, he's going up against Superman. Batman is no stranger to robotic armors either. From The Dark Knight Returns to Trinity, he has employed them on different occasions. What I meant is that, if Batman were to sneak into Lex Luthor's mansion, and they got into a confrontation, Batman would kick his ass, so yes a barehanded fist fight.

Um, no. Why? Because they're not the same character. One's Batman, the other's Lex Luthor. Why should Batman be using the same resources as Lex? Moreover, Batman isn't the power armor type. After decades as a superhero, he's remained primarily a martial artist and gadget guy.

I never said they were the same character. Batman does have access to similar resources, as rich and powerful as he is. As I mentioned before, Batman is very willing to wear a powered armor suit if the situation requires it.

So you concede that Batman can't take Superman. I accept your concession.

Him going up against Superman without either backup of similar power levels and/or some serious specialized gear? Not very likely and, assuming he has the opportunity to procure these things, somewhat out of character.

 

[batpirisss]

Batman always wins get serious.

 

[Union Jack]

like Stan lee says if its circumstantial in the fight any hero or villian can beat any hero or villain,it depends who's writing it..all the batman fans here say batman..superman fans say superman.
how ever in this fight if it were to the death then batman would lose instantly..superman can hear him coming,can see him in any light,is faster the the speeding kryptonite bullet,if you compare them both side by side that batman must lose again a person who can do all the superman things he does.
bats can only prep against the superman he knows..against a superman he doesn't know he doesnt stand a chance..he always uses clarks integrity against him.

Oh and i also thinks wolverine would serve batman his ass too..

 

[Drz]

That's kinda my point. In both Hush (when Superman was Ivy-possessed) and TDKR, Clark held back to an even greater extent than Bruce did. Bruce won't kill anyone. Other than that, he has no code. Bruce has allies, but few friends (and he's even suspicious of his "friends"). And, he is so single-minded that he won't hesitate to steamroll a friend (short of killing them) if the situation calls for it.

You realize in Hush Superman is fightning himself and Batman is trying to save him? The very same writer Jeph Loeb has a reverse situation in Superman|Batman: Vengeance arc where Batman is possessed and has a kryptonite aura on him, it's Superman's job to save his friend while Batman is fightning him and himself.

Clark won't maim a friend -- even if the situation calls for it.

Prove it. Even a possesed Superman has gone with no issues of getting Batman ass kicked when the situation calls for it, if Superman has to stop a threat, he will. He is a fighter, not a martyr like saint.

What I am saying is that your argument was a bad one. Many of the villains that use Superman's weaknesses against him, like Metallo does with Kryptonite, are sufficiently powerful enough to give him trouble without Kryptonite. Likewise, Batman's villains do try to shoot him (exploiting his human non-invulnerability), but it fails as well. Just because it doesn't work, doesn't mean that it couldn't.

And yet you've not managed to write a any proper fight scene withouth making Superman the underdog first and Batman the brilliant overlord, theres that too.

Often he does.

Prove it.

Of course Lex Luthor uses a battle armor, he's going up against Superman. Batman is no stranger to robotic armors either. From The Dark Knight Returns to Trinity, he has employed them on different occasions. What I meant is that, if Batman were to sneak into Lex Luthor's mansion, and they got into a confrontation, Batman would kick his ass, so yes a barehanded fist fight.

Implying Luthor's nanite inventions or Lois Lane Robot wouldn't blow Batman to smithereens.

I never said they were the same character. Batman does have access to similar resources, as rich and powerful as he is. As I mentioned before, Batman is very willing to wear a powered armor suit if the situation requires it.

Oh more willing based off what again? Once again you act and behave like you know comics, so now you're telling me Superman close to never wears any protective armor if the situation asks for it, but again if you'd just read some comics like All Star Superman, whoop be doo you can see how wrong you are.

Him going up against Superman without either backup of similar power levels and/or some serious specialized gear? Not very likely and, assuming he has the opportunity to procure these things, somewhat out of character.

Irrelevant since Superman knows about it with his time machine so he stops Batman beforehand, comics!

Batman always wins get serious.

Oh you.

 

[Godzilla2014]

You realize in Hush Superman is fightning himself and Batman is trying to save him? The very same writer Jeph Loeb has a reverse situation in Superman|Batman: Vengeance arc where Batman is possessed and has a kryptonite aura on him, it's Superman's job to save his friend while Batman is fightning him and himself.

Also, in Hush, wasn't Superman also being poisoned by Kryptonite?

Prove it. Even a possesed Superman has gone with no issues of getting Batman ass kicked when the situation calls for it, if Superman has to stop a threat, he will. He is a fighter, not a martyr like saint.

True. Fortunately, most of the time, the situation wouldn't call for a friend to be maimed.

And yet you've not managed to write a any proper fight scene withouth making Superman the underdog first and Batman the brilliant overlord, theres that too.

My skills as a writer (or lack thereof) have nothing to do with this.

Prove it.

Sometimes he wins.

Implying Luthor's nanite inventions or Lois Lane Robot wouldn't blow Batman to smithereens.

He took them out beforehand by uploading Windows 98 onto their hard drives. Any questions?

Oh more willing based off what again? Once again you act and behave like you know comics, so now you're telling me Superman close to never wears any protective armor if the situation asks for it, but again if you'd just read some comics like All Star Superman, whoop be doo you can see how wrong you are.

What? Where the **** did I say that? I wasn't talking about Superman, I was talking about Batman and Lex Luthor. I know that Superman uses armor sometimes, such the anti-Kryptonite suit from Superman: The Animated Series, but I wasn't referring to Superman other than that Lex Luthor built his robotic suit to fight him.

Irrelevant since Superman knows about it with his time machine so he stops Batman beforehand, comics!

If Superman has a mother ****ing time machine, why doesn't he use that **** more often? He should be able to prevent nearly anything bad from happening on Earth, or at the very least anything that required planning first. Lois Lane would never be kidnapped, and all of Lex Luthor's evil schemes would be stopped in advance.

 

[Drz]

Also, in Hush, wasn't Superman also being poisoned by Kryptonite?

So you don't even read Batman comics? Good grief, why do you keep rooting for your fictional Not-Batman-but-overlord-Batman and Not-Superman-but-Gimp-Superman in a thread about Batman and Superman?! He wasn't poisoned by kryptonite, Batman had the ring which helped fight the Ivy control, but to break it off they needed to risk a civillian live for Superman to break loose, because Jeph Loeb chose so.

True. Fortunately, most of the time, the situation wouldn't call for a friend to be maimed.

Not that Batman needs it, he can knocked out so easily.

My skills as a writer (or lack thereof) have nothing to do with this.

If you can't come up with a good way outside of your fictionla overlord-Batman and Gimp-Superman while you claim to be rooting for the underdog (which you aren't, because Superman is the underdog in your story) then why do you keep trying to claim you're right? You know close to nothing about Batman and Superman.

Sometimes he wins.

Citations.


He took them out beforehand by uploading Windows 98 onto their hard drives. Any questions?

If Superman has a mother ****ing time machine, why doesn't he use that **** more often?

The same reason Batman doesn't do drugs or super armors to become your fictional Batman, but we're here to talk about comic Superman and whatever argument you throw at, let me remind you he can see it beforehand and stops it by putting Batman to cell while he was taking a nap, suck on that. Comics! Not fan fiction, buddy boy.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Why is this even a argument. Im a Batman and Superman fan and even I know that if Superman wanted to he could destroy Bats in a instant. I mean Bats could be on the toilet minding his own damn business and next thing he sees is him being thrown into the sun.

 

[Godzilla2014]

So you don't even read Batman comics? Good grief, why do you keep rooting for your fictional Not-Batman-but-overlord-Batman and Not-Superman-but-Gimp-Superman in a thread about Batman and Superman?! He wasn't poisoned by kryptonite, Batman had the ring which helped fight the Ivy control, but to break it off they needed to risk a civillian live for Superman to break loose, because Jeph Loeb chose so.

I read Batman comics. I remember that Ivy had put Kryptonite on the mind control thing so that it would work. Granted, it was a small amount (like a powder or dust), but it was there, and he was affected by it.

Not that Batman needs it, he can knocked out so easily.

Even if he were hard to knock out, there would be no point to taking limbs off.

If you can't come up with a good way outside of your fictionla overlord-Batman and Gimp-Superman while you claim to be rooting for the underdog (which you aren't, because Superman is the underdog in your story) then why do you keep trying to claim you're right? You know close to nothing about Batman and Superman.

Why do you insist that Batman is the overlord and somehow Superman is the underdog? Batman has had to work his ass of to become the best at what he does, while Superman was born with superhuman abilities as a part of his Kryptonian heritage. But mostly, I just like Batman better. Always have, always will. So I admit my bias.

The same reason Batman doesn't do drugs or super armors to become your fictional Batman, but we're here to talk about comic Superman and whatever argument you throw at, let me remind you he can see it beforehand and stops it by putting Batman to cell while he was taking a nap, suck on that. Comics! Not fan fiction, buddy boy.

Batman doesn't do drugs because winners don't use drugs. Anyway, what comics does Superman actually use this time machine in?

 

[Godzilla2014]

Why is this even a argument. Im a Batman and Superman fan and even I know that if Superman wanted to he could destroy Bats in a instant. I mean Bats could be on the toilet minding his own damn business and next thing he sees is him being thrown into the sun.

Why would Superman throw him into the sun? While he's on the toilet no less? Also, assuming it is Mexican food night at Wayne Manor, the stench would kill Superman instantly before he could throw Batman into the sun. All Batman would see is a hole busted into the bathroom wall, and Superman laying dead at his feet.

 

[Drz]

Why do you insist that Batman is the overlord and somehow Superman is the underdog? Batman has had to work his ass of to become the best at what he does, while Superman was born with superhuman abilities as a part of his Kryptonian heritage. But mostly, I just like Batman better. Always have, always will. So I admit my bias.

Because in your fiction Superman isn't born with normal human reflexes or brain activity. That makes him the underdog as he can't process the situation and the mean mighty Batman is using this at his advantage, your argument is pretty much a bully picking on a invalid. Your hero.

Batman doesn't do drugs because winners don't use drugs. Anyway, what comics does Superman actually use this time machine in?

You we're the one talking about Batman creating a serum for himself, that is pretty much a boost enchancement drug. Superman's time watch has been around since the Silver Age and thus far longer then your examples of Batman building himself armor and whatnot, but last time i read a Superman comic and it appeared was during All Star Superman, its also in the movie, so it's public knowledge he has that device.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Because in your fiction Superman isn't born with normal human reflexes or brain activity. That makes him the underdog as he can't process the situation and the mean mighty Batman is using this at his advantage, your argument is pretty much a bully picking on a invalid. Your hero.

Superman is far from an invalid, even in my scenarios. I don't really understand your criticism.

You we're the one talking about Batman creating a serum for himself, that is pretty much a boost enchancement drug. Superman's time watch has been around since the Silver Age and thus far longer then your examples of Batman building himself armor and whatnot, but last time i read a Superman comic and it appeared was during All Star Superman, its also in the movie, so it's public knowledge he has that device.

Ok.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Because in your fiction Superman isn't born with normal human reflexes or brain activity. That makes him the underdog as he can't process the situation and the mean mighty Batman is using this at his advantage, your argument is pretty much a bully picking on a invalid. Your hero.

Hmm...If in any given fight, batman outsmarts Superman, it doesn't mean that Superman is 'dumb'...or that batman is 'genius overlord'.

it's just means that as smart as supes can be, Batman is just smarter.I think you supes fans needs to relax a bit.

I read some post earlier that made comparison that Bts vs Supes= tony stark vs Daredevil.In my opinion, a more accurate comparison would be Tony Stark vs Reed Richards. which then begs the question; just because Tony gonna wear the armor to the battle, does it automatically means that Richards is toast? I would say that even with all the armor, the most brilliant mind on the planet would pose a legitimate threat to tony...regardless of lacks of armor.

And to me, Batman is the DC version of Reed Richards...with ninja skills

 

[Drz]

Superman is far from an invalid, even in my scenarios. I don't really understand your criticism.

He has no good brain activity, he doens't know how to react, he has no common sense or concept... He is brain damaged, thats for certain and you can't really brain damage Superman since his brain cells are undamageable. So yeah this isn't the DC Superman we're talking about when it comes to you Godzilla.

Hmm...If in any given fight, batman outsmarts Superman, it doesn't mean that Superman is 'dumb'...or that batman is 'genius overlord'.

When it comes to Godzilla's examples, it does.

it's just means that as smart as supes can be, Batman is just smarter.I think you supes fans needs to relax a bit.

Superman is smarter, i'm relaxed like Superman. Batman can't do more harm to Superman than a mere ant could.

And to me, Batman is the DC version of Reed Richards...with ninja skills

Batman's isn't as smart or sociopathic as Reed Richards is. You also seem to forget Superman's faster than light (and thought) movements and the fact he doesn't even need to be close to Batman to defeat him.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Hmm...If in any given fight, batman outsmarts Superman, it doesn't mean that Superman is 'dumb'...or that batman is 'genius overlord'.

it's just means that as smart as supes can be, Batman is just smarter.I think you supes fans needs to relax a bit.

I read some post earlier that made comparison that Bts vs Supes= tony stark vs Daredevil.In my opinion, a more accurate comparison would be Tony Stark vs Reed Richards. which then begs the question; just because Tony gonna wear the armor to the battle, does it automatically means that Richards is toast? I would say that even with all the armor, the most brilliant mind on the planet would pose a legitimate threat to tony...regardless of lacks of armor.

And to me, Batman is the DC version of Reed Richards...with ninja skills

Thank you.

He has no good brain activity, he doens't know how to react, he has no common sense or concept... He is brain damaged, thats for certain and you can't really brain damage Superman since his brain cells are undamageable. So yeah this isn't the DC Superman we're talking about when it comes to you Godzilla.

I never intended to make Superman out to lack common sense, or make Batman the genius overlord.

When it comes to Godzilla's examples, it does.


Superman is smarter, i'm relaxed like Superman. Batman can't do more harm to Superman than a mere ant could.


Batman's isn't as smart or sociopathic as Reed Richards is. You also seem to forget Superman's faster than light (and thought) movements and the fact he doesn't even need to be close to Batman to defeat him.

That I agree with. Batman isn't quite as much of a tech wizard as Reed Richards is, but he's not nearly as much of a colossal *****ebag that Reed is either.

 

[Drz]

I never intended to make Superman out to lack common sense, or make Batman the genius overlord.

It's irrelevant what you intended, you made Superman into the underdog of your story, you try to argue that you prefer to root for the underdog but you prefer Batman because you've read about him, chosen not to read about Superman, but you act like you know enough about him to make valid arguments againts him. This isn't the Superman of DC comics at all, this is your fictional character that dresses up s Superman and is getting picked on by a bully named Batman.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

He has no good brain activity, he doens't know how to react, he has no common sense or concept... He is brain damaged, thats for certain and you can't really brain damage Superman since his brain cells are undamageable. So yeah this isn't the DC Superman we're talking about when it comes to you Godzilla.

When it comes to Godzilla's examples, it does.


Superman is smarter, i'm relaxed like Superman. Batman can't do more harm to Superman than a mere ant could.


Batman's isn't as smart or sociopathic as Reed Richards is. You also seem to forget Superman's faster than light (and thought) movements and the fact he doesn't even need to be close to Batman to defeat him.

So..Superman is smarter eh? can you prove an example why you think Supes is SMARTER than bats?..not the prove that Supes IS smart, because we all KNOW that he is, he's not a bufoon,just that he is smarter than Bruce,becuase being highly intelligent...more so than anyone around him has been Batman gimmick for as long as i can remember.

And i'm not saying that bruce is smarter than Richards, it's just that the impression that i get is that in the DCU, if you look up the dictionary for the word 'brilliance' you'll probably see a pic of bruce Wayne beside it.Like i said, other than his bat theme gadgets and whatnot, him being one clever SOB is his other well known gimmick ...wheter you agree or not.

And that whole...Supes would squish him before he knows there's a fight...all i gotta say is i'm glad that most of you don't write Supes comic for DC, coz all we'll get is; 'wheeee... bad guys shows up, supes squeeze bad guys to the cement!..next issue!'

And just for the record, i think supes will win a fight with bats 80% of the time...it's just that Bats being what he is,there's STILL a chance that he can pull a victory somehow..the most brilliat tactician on the DCU, regardless of lacks power, can still pose a threat to Supes IMO.Ask Luthor.

If Supes as smart as you seem to think he is, he'll agree with me

 

[Drz]

So..Superman is smarter eh? can you prove an example why you think Supes is SMARTER than bats?..not the prove that Supes IS smart, because we all KNOW that he is, he's not a bufoon,just that he is smarter than Bruce,becuase being highly intelligent...more so than anyone around him has been Batman gimmick for as long as i can remember.

Because Superman's brain cells will never die and he sees the world in such a different way and is pretty much a superior scientist just like Lex Luthor compared to Batman. Now obviously Batman is a smart guy when it comes to crime research, but even Superman can handle that.

And that whole...Supes would squish him before he knows there's a fight...all i gotta say is i'm glad that most of you don't write Supes comic for DC, coz all we'll get is; 'wheeee... bad guys shows up, supes squeeze bad guys to the cement!..next issue!'

Thats not an counter argument, thats you trying to deny something and moving along. Superman is a very emotional character book (for me) that deals with everyday man things and captures to be interesting because of how relatable Superman is, yeah theres struggles here and there with heroes and villains, but you bring up the whole issue with comics that include Batman. Joker constantly escapes Arkham only to get defeated, yet he's lasted long.

And just for the record, i think supes will win a fight with bats 80% of the time...it's just that Bats being what he is,there's STILL a chance that he can pull a victory somehow

And how will he do this? He can't dodge Superman's movements, so what is he going to do? He isn't going to murder him either, he would break his Gun rule, but what good is a bullet when the target moves faster than bullets?

the most brilliat tactician on the DCU, regardless of lacks power, can still pose a threat to Supes IMO

And your opinion is based off what comics again?

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Because Superman's brain cells will never die and he sees the world in such a different way and is pretty much a superior scientist just like Lex Luthor compared to Batman. Now obviously Batman is a smart guy when it comes to crime research, but even Superman can handle that.

I think you missed my point. You just pointed out that Clark IS a smart guy...which we already knows he is. But how does that proves that he is SMARTER than Bruce.
You said he's a scientist..so is Bats.And his intellect isn't limited to crime science either...if we goes by what Grant Morrison established during his JLA run...or even Waid during his tower of bable(sp) storyline. He sees the world in a diffrent way? so what? what does that prove? Deadpool also sees the world in a different way, but nobody will ever mistake him for a genius for example.

Thats not an counter argument, thats you trying to deny something and moving along. Superman is a very emotional character book (for me) that deals with everyday man things and captures to be interesting because of how relatable Superman is, yeah theres struggles here and there with heroes and villains, but you bring up the whole issue with comics that include Batman. Joker constantly escapes Arkham only to get defeated, yet he's lasted long.

I wasn't trying to MAKE a counter argument with that one. Just an observation. ..and i honestly don't know what you're trying to say with the rest of that pharagraph.

And how will he do this? He can't dodge Superman's movements, so what is he going to do? He isn't going to murder him either, he would break his Gun rule, but what good is a bullet when the target moves faster than bullets?

I COULD provide a fantasy scenario where Batman would emerge victorious. But i think other people who actually work in the industry already done that.

And your opinion is based off what comics again?

Based on his rep in the DCU? Him being smarter than most people isnt invented by his fans, it's what the writers over a long periods of time has established and that's what i'm reffering to.If you think in a fantasy match that supes can bring all his known power and other gimmicks that he has...than i think it's only fair that Bats should be allowed the same, and that's included his 'i'm smarter than everybody'gimmick.

 

[Drz]

I think you missed my point. You just pointed out that Clark IS a smart guy...which we already knows he is. But how does that proves that he is SMARTER than Bruce.

Him being a superior scientist pretty much proves it. Who fixed the sun? Superman. Who created a machine that can see in the future? Superman. Who created a serum to create more Supermen? Superman.

What did Batman invent? A batarang?

world in a diffrent way? so what? what does that prove? Deadpool also sees the world in a different way, but nobody will ever mistake him for a genius for example.

Because he sees all the radio signals, live signals and whatnot. He can see things in such a different light, thats what Luthor realizes when he takes the Superman serum:

I COULD provide a fantasy scenario where Batman would emerge victorious. But i think other people who actually work in the industry already done that.

I'd like to see some.

Based on his rep in the DCU? Him being smarter than most people isnt invented by his fans, it's what the writers over a long periods of time has established and that's what i'm reffering to.If you think in a fantasy match that supes can bring all his known power and other gimmicks that he has...than i think it's only fair that Bats should be allowed the same, and that's included his 'i'm smarter than everybody'gimmick.

I'd like to see how Batman can make an reaction to the man of Tomorrow since the fight would be over even before it starts.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Him being a superior scientist pretty much proves it. Who fixed the sun? Superman. Who created a machine that can see in the future? Superman. Who created a serum to create more Supermen? Superman.

i've never read those stories you mentioned..i take it it's from all star Superman? from Grant Morrison? the guy who, when he wrote JLA said in a wizard interview that the one man can take down the whole league is the one member who doesn't have power? is it considered cannon? as in does it takes place in regular DC continuity?

What did Batman invent? A batarang?

Funny. You complained a few posts ago that Godzilla was dumbing down Supes to support his argument, and yet you do the same.

I'd like to see some.

What's the point since it's already happened in the actual comics. but since you asked, my fav scenario would involve months in planning...hookers dressed up as super girl..and Kryptonian veneral disease...happy? hehe

Because he sees all the radio signals, live signals and whatnot. He can see things in such a different light, thats what Luthor realizes when he takes the Superman serum

So...that's his abilities...much like his x-ray vision and superspeed.It doesn't say anything about his intellect.

I'd like to see how Batman can make an reaction to the man of Tomorrow since the fight would be over even before it starts.

If it's a mortal kombat style fight..sure...but what if batman already planned for the fight months before supes even knows that there's gonna be a fight? and before you say copout...i seem to remember that Bruce has a contigency plan to deal with each and every member of the JLA should they ever gone rogue? and it's happened in regular DCU continuity if i remember correctly...not a what if scenario like the all star line.

 

[Dr.]

Assuming she had kryptonite, I think Mother Teresa could beat Superman...

 

[Captain Marvel]

What I am saying is that your argument was a bad one. Many of the villains that use Superman's weaknesses against him, like Metallo does with Kryptonite, are sufficiently powerful enough to give him trouble without Kryptonite. Likewise, Batman's villains do try to shoot him (exploiting his human non-invulnerability), but it fails as well. Just because it doesn't work, doesn't mean that it couldn't.

Sorry, but your argument is the bad one. Metallo, Luthor, etc take advantage of Superman's weaknesses while at the same time being powerful enough on their own to pose a threat to Superman while still losing. Batman, however, is not powerful enough on his own to pose a threat to Superman.

Often he does.

Really? Citation needed, then. I'd like to see these victories he "often" wins and where they can be found.

Of course Lex Luthor uses a battle armor, he's going up against Superman. Batman is no stranger to robotic armors either. From The Dark Knight Returns to Trinity, he has employed them on different occasions. What I meant is that, if Batman were to sneak into Lex Luthor's mansion, and they got into a confrontation, Batman would kick his ass, so yes a barehanded fist fight.

Oh, now that's just ridiculous. So Batman only wins when he catches Luthor sitting on the can taking a crap? Give me a break. You argued that Lex Luthor was a weaker opponent than Batman, and I pointed out that you were flat out wrong about that, as Luthor goes into his fights with his power armor. Obviously Luthor doesn't sit on the crapper, call Superman on his cell phone, and challenge him to a fight then and there. He goes into a fight with his armor. And when he does, he far surpasses anything Batman can do.

As for your, once again, idiotic example, if it were that easy to get at Luthor then he would've been dead years ago. Lex Luthor is a guy who created a force field projector that looked like a stick of gum! His security is certainly good enough that he can be given some warning that Batman's on his way. And once Luthor's aware that Batman's there, he'll be in his armor in moments, and then Batman will be crying.

I never said they were the same character. Batman does have access to similar resources, as rich and powerful as he is. As I mentioned before, Batman is very willing to wear a powered armor suit if the situation requires it.

If his armors were so great then why doesn't he wear them all the time? Why doesn't he clean up Gotham as Iron Batman? His armors have never been anywhere near as good as Luthor's power suits. Not even the one from The Dark Knight Returns, and that was set in the future, where he had even more advanced technology to play with.

Him going up against Superman without either backup of similar power levels and/or some serious specialized gear? Not very likely and, assuming he has the opportunity to procure these things, somewhat out of character.

This is a Superman Vs. Batman match, which means it's one-on-one. It's not Superman Vs. Batman/Martian Manhunter/Aquaman/Wonder Woman/Hawkman/Plastic Man/Green Arrow/Cyborg/etc. If you feel that Batman needs all those other people in order to beat Superman then, once again, I accept your concession.