Best 3rd movie in a SH franchise?

[co2]

Totally agreed, it is hugely flawed, but the good outweighs the bad so much its ridiculous. Some people claiming it as one of the worst movies ever are just a joke.

My sentiments exactly. It had some moments that make you go "what possessed them to do that?" but overall it had some strengths that overcome that stuff.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

To be honest I think that Spider-Man 3, X-Men 3 and Superman 3 are all decent to good movies. I really don't understand all the hate that people direct towards them. Worse movies ever? Have you guys never heard or Freddie Prince JR?

Sure there are big plot holes in them, but nobody was in the room to hear "Rosebud" either? Why do people only focus on plot holes when they don't like the movie?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

My sentiments exactly. It had some moments that make you go "what possessed them to do that?" but overall it had some strengths that overcome that stuff.

Exactly, I am still sore a bit about Venom's treatment, but the movie has more good moments than all of the other 3rd entries put together IMO.

 

[Spider-Fan]

My sentiments exactly. It had some moments that make you go "what possessed them to do that?" but overall it had some strengths that overcome that stuff.

Exactly, I am still sore a bit about Venom's treatment, but the movie has more good moments than all of the other 3rd entries put together IMO.

Completely agreed

We have plot holes and conveniances, but there are scenes I just love watching in SM3, and I feel for a movie with 3 visions, it juggles them better than a lot of other crowded films do.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

X3 was the one I enjoyed the most out of the poll, Spider-Man 3 in my opinion was just plain bad.

Peter and MJ after 3 movies still sound like the same whining little kids from the first movie, no character growth or maturity whatsoever.

That lame introduction of the symbiote by having a random meteor rock just fall from out of nowhere, and of all the places on the planet Earth it could have fallen it just conveniently lands right in Central Park, right next to Peter and just conveniently hitches a ride on his moped....man please, that's just too convenient.

That ridiculous thing with the butler coming forth with the information about how Norman died, out of the blue and way too convenient.

MJ must be the biggest d*** teasing ****e in comic movie history, she starts out with Flash, then moves to Harry, then puts the moves on Peter, then hooks up with John Jameson, then back to Peter, then in 3 she decides to flirt with (then actually kiss) Harry after twisting her little behind all over his kitchen, she is written as a very selfish unlikeable character.

Do I even need to mention the Saturday Night Fever sidewalk spider- boogie.

Peter actually lets Sandman get away after that ridiculous "I only did it to save my daughter, I've made mistakes" crap. I don't care what his motives are or what his sob story is Marko is still an escaped convict committing acts of robbery and violence. Peter let that one crook run past him in his origin that he regrets and wishes he had stopped, so what does he do?....he let's another one go,...no, I can't accept it, Peter would have more responsibility than that.

And speaking of responsibility...Flint Marko killed Uncle Ben!? WHAT? "With great power comes great responsibility", THAT'S THE WHOLE FOUNDATION THAT SPIDER-MAN IS BUILT ON! He does what he does because of the guilt of allowing that crook to run past him that kills Uncle Ben, by now saying Uncle Ben wasn't killed by that guy it now removes the guilt factor, which then to me says he should feel no reason to be Spider-Man anymore. By using that senseless retcon it completely undermines the entire Spider-Man motivation and driving force for being a superhero, and on top of that it also says that Peter Parker is responsible for confronting an innocent man in a warehouse (whose only crime was armed robbery) and causing him to fall to his death. Terrible, terrible writing and there's no excuse for it.

Spider-Man 3 was terrible and I'm astonished that so many people on this poll found it more enjoyable than X3. People always complaining about "Well they killed Cyclops so the movie sucks". Cyclops has been the least important character of the whole team from the very beginning of the series and whether you like it or not Wolverine is clearly the star of the series. Cyclops just doesn't matter and it makes perfect sense that he would get offed,..get over it Cyclops lovers.

 

[The Sarge]

*Don't forget the terrible amnesia thing for Harry. That seemed unnecessary, and also had him acting idiotic *"boop!"
I really didn't need to see him get his memories back and all that. It seemed like they wanted to take his character in a different direction than the one they left off with in SM2, but also wanted to open up with a fight between the two.
It just didn't work though.
Everyone and their mother (who's never heard of venom) knows he was thrown in carelessly.
MJ gets kidnapped AGAIN. Seriously? All 3 films really need that? Why would Eddie even kidnap her though? She wasn't even going out with Peter anymore! And wasn't part of the reason he hated Parker that he stole Gwen away? (Was it? Maybe not. . . I haven't watched it in a while) If he didn't then they should've thrown that in there too. Then maybe have him kidnap Gwen. . . or something.
And also, what T-Clipse said.

I don't like X-men 3 either though. I still haven't picked out a 3rd film on the poll. All the ones I've seen are so damn terrible!

 

[CFE]

The only plot point I loathed from "Spider-Man 3" was Harry's "temporary short term amnesia" (???)

 

[T-CLIPSE]

I don't like X-men 3 either though. I still haven't picked out a 3rd film on the poll. All the ones I've seen are so damn terrible!

Yeah and as the poll shows you're not alone 'Sarge',.. but you know what, I believe X3 gets so much crap from comic fans just because they feel the movie wasn't true to the comics, I think Spider-Man 3 is much worse just simply because the movie wasn't even true to the movie. That god awful movie contradicts everything established in the first two movies.

Yeah people may not like that Cyclops died, may not like that Xavier "died', may not like that Phoenix wasn't shown as a big fiery bird destoying planets, may not like that Rogue accepted the cure, but all those elements made sense,

Cyclops died while in the embrace of his lover whom he couldn't live without.....

Xavier died at the hands of the student who became more powerful than the teacher,....

Phoenix wasn't shown as a big fiery bird destroying planets because it would be overkill and would look stupid on film,......

Rogue has hated her powers from the very beginning and naturally she would accept the cure..

...at the end of the day at the very least X3 did maintain consistency with what the previous two films had already established,.....

..Spider-Man 3 did not.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

No it had even worse:
"Magneto:I could use a man of your talents, I wont tell you why or who I am, but I could.
Multiple Man:"Even though I dont know you or what you are doing, am in."
And after all that Magneto uses him to get caught again!
I could go on and on.

Man you have got to be kidding, you find it hard to believe that a mutant being held prisoner by humans would be willing to join up with the guy that just gave him his freedom? And you also find it hard to believe that Magneto would "use" Multiple Man and allow him to get caught?.. he even said it right to his face..."I could USE a man of your talents", Jesus man Magneto "uses" everybody,.... he's been "using" other mutants for his own agenda from the very beginning...

In the first movie he "used" Rogue (and she's just a kid for christ sakes) to power that machine even though he knew it was going to kill her, so you're ready to accept that he's prepared to KILL Rogue but you think it's difficult to believe he would "use" Multiple Man to get caught?.. come on man, Magneto has clearly stated and clearly demonstrated from the very beginning that he doesn't care about the sacrifices or the consequences, all he cares about is accomplishing the mission. I mean for goodness sake he even turned around and dumped MYSTIQUE when she was no longer of any use, and she even saved him from getting shot.

So if he's been shown as willing to kill other mutants and is willing to abandon his right hand girl when she becomes useless, why in the world does it make you uptight because he didn't give a damn about Multiple Man?

Come on man...you got to do better than that.

 

[Timstuff]

Spider-Man 3 gets my vote, although I like X-Men 3 as well. I boil up in side every time I have to listen to one of my roommates or classmates ragging on it endlessly, and then try to make fun of me for liking it. They can't even name a specific reason why it sucks, they just rant on and on about vague things like "the plot is full of holes!" and "there's no character development!" and dumb crap like that. When I ask them to NAME a plot hole, they always change the subject, and if I point out how a character DID get developed, then they just whine that it wasn't enough and that it was untrue to the comic. There is no way to please them, because they WANT TO HATE IT.

It's the same thing with Spider-Man 3, except they also whine about Sam Raimi's style, which was one of the reasons why I LOVE the Spider-Man movies. Some people just like to whine because it makes them look like more legitimate fans, I guess. My room mates don't really have a right to complain about SM3 and XM3 though, considering they thought Punisher Warzone was awesome.

 

[The Sarge]

Angels Story in X3 was really thrown in.
I also remember being disappointed at the lack of Colossus in the final fight.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Man you have got to be kidding, you find it hard to believe that a mutant being held prisoner by humans would be willing to join up with the guy that just gave him his freedom? And you also find it hard to believe that Magneto would "use" Multiple Man and allow him to get caught?.. he even said it right to his face..."I could USE a man of your talents", Jesus man Magneto "uses" everybody,.... he's been "using" other mutants for his own agenda from the very beginning...

In the first movie he "used" Rogue (and she's just a kid for christ sakes) to power that machine even though he knew it was going to kill her, so you're ready to accept that he's prepared to KILL Rogue but you think it's difficult to believe he would "use" Multiple Man to get caught?.. come on man, Magneto has clearly stated and clearly demonstrated from the very beginning that he doesn't care about the sacrifices or the consequences, all he cares about is accomplishing the mission. I mean for goodness sake he even turned around and dumped MYSTIQUE when she was no longer of any use, and she even saved him from getting shot.

So if he's been shown as willing to kill other mutants and is willing to abandon his right hand girl when she becomes useless, why in the world does it make you uptight because he didn't give a damn about Multiple Man?

Come on man...you got to do better than that.

Sorry, but you have got to do better, making excuses for that GOD AWFUL movie. Its nothing to do with him not caring about MM. Why in the frigging world would Multiple Man get his freedom then happily give it away again.

Oh yes, i'll join the man who gave me my freedom and then intends to take it away again and will be happy about it. Complete and utter ****e.

Dont know were you got that I hated that Magneto didnt care about MM, of course he doesnt, just like he didnt wiht Toad, Sabretooth, etc. But MM joining him only to be caught again, stupid, completely and utterly.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spider-Man 3 gets my vote, although I like X-Men 3 as well. I boil up in side every time I have to listen to one of my roommates or classmates ragging on it endlessly, and then try to make fun of me for liking it. They can't even name a specific reason why it sucks, they just rant on and on about vague things like "the plot is full of holes!" and "there's no character development!" and dumb crap like that. When I ask them to NAME a plot hole, they always change the subject, and if I point out how a character DID get developed, then they just whine that it wasn't enough and that it was untrue to the comic. There is no way to please them, because they WANT TO HATE IT.

It's the same thing with Spider-Man 3, except they also whine about Sam Raimi's style, which was one of the reasons why I LOVE the Spider-Man movies. Some people just like to whine because it makes them look like more legitimate fans, I guess. My room mates don't really have a right to complain about SM3 and XM3 though, considering they thought Punisher Warzone was awesome.

SM3 is just cool for fanboys to hate. I think that is a big factor. The movie was hyped, so since it didn't live up to rediculous expectations, it is cool to hate. Movies like Titanic suffer from this in the fanboy community. also. This movie got popular, and when it broke the records it did and won the Oscars it did, it became cool to hate the movie (though I do think better movies came out that year, it is still awesome).

It's just cool to hate SM3.

 

[kedrell]

SM3

Here's my take on the 3rd film curse:

They always start by saying "We need to find something new to say, that we didn't in the previous films. And it's tough finding that new thing to say". I'm para-phrasing of course. But that is exactly what leads them down the wrong path, IMO. They should take a lesson from Bond films. Sure, not all are great but it doesn't suffer from the same "We're running out of relevant things to say" idiocy. Just make a great kickass film and worry about social relevance later. I'd rather have a film deliver on some points and not on others than fail at all of them.

Or maybe it's just that the filmmakers get tired of doing the same franchise after 2 films. I dunno?

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Why in the frigging world would Multiple Man get his freedom then happily give it away again.

Because he's NOT giving away his freedom by helping Magneto, he feels he's ensuring his freedom by helping Magneto.

Man I don't think you watched this movie at all, Magneto..is on a mission...to free all mutantkind from human persecution...forever, do you understand that much? If Magneto succeeds in his mission the last thing Multiple Man has to worry about is being locked up by humans. Did you see the scene where Magneto is standing in front of his people in the forest and he's rallying them with his speech.....

"We shall go to Alcatraz Island, take control of the cure and destroy it's source and then nothing can stop us!

Magneto is telling his people that soon THEY WILL ALL BE FREE of human persecution forever, are you really saying that Multiple Man after hearing all of that he would be concerned about being in jail knowing that this man in front of him is on a mission to free all mutants from humans once and for all. These mutants are willing to KILL AND DIE for Magneto if need be and you find it difficult to believe that Multiple Man would be willing to use himself as bait?.... Are you being serious?

Oh yes, i'll join the man who gave me my freedom and then intends to take it away again and will be happy about it. Complete and utter ****e.

He's not taking freedom away from him, Magneto has told them that he has a plan and with their help very soon... THEY WILL ALL BE FREE FOREVER. They all believe that Magneto can end their imprisonment and persecution......forever....does that make sense?

You should watch it (and this time listen to it) again.

 

[The Sarge]

SM3 is just cool for fanboys to hate. I think that is a big factor. The movie was hyped, so since it didn't live up to rediculous expectations, it is cool to hate. Movies like Titanic suffer from this in the fanboy community. also. This movie got popular, and when it broke the records it did and won the Oscars it did, it became cool to hate the movie (though I do think better movies came out that year, it is still awesome).

It's just cool to hate SM3.

The same could be said about X3. And many on this list actually.

But its not like people can't even come up with examples of why Spider-man 3 was bad- the reasons are clear, and numerous. I think it would be a bad movie on it's own, let alone the third part to two great films.
*not trying to change your opinion of course.

 

[Majik1387]

Cyclops died while in the embrace of his lover whom he couldn't live without.....

And that lover happened to come back so killing him instead of making him accept her death was pointless.

Xavier died at the hands of the student who became more powerful than the teacher,....

That hardly makes any sense.
Did Daniel-San kill Mr. Miyagi?

Phoenix wasn't shown as a big fiery bird destroying planets because it would be overkill and would look stupid on film,......

The big fiery bird didn't look stupid at the end of X2...

Rogue has hated her powers from the very beginning and naturally she would accept the cure..

Yeah, she hated them at the beginning, and started accepting them and responsibility to the X-Men in the second film. I agree she would consider the cure, but reverting her back to the Rogue we were introduced do was a major step backwards.

...at the end of the day at the very least X3 did maintain consistency with what the previous two films had already established,.....

Not at all.

..Spider-Man 3 did not.

Agreed.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Peter and MJ after 3 movies still sound like the same whining little kids from the first movie, no character growth or maturity whatsoever.

How so?

That ridiculous thing with the butler coming forth with the information about how Norman died, out of the blue and way too convenient.

It's not out of the blue. Here is what I always got from the butler. He always knew that Osborn was the Green Goblin, in Spider-Man 1 he is there when Norman finds out about the Goblin suit being missing and is also told he is not well. Then you factor in that Norman was always ranting and raving at himself, in one scene Harry hears him ranting from a good distance away from his room. How could Bernard not know he was the Goblin?

He didn't tell Harry who is father was because that wouldn't make the pain go away, it would just make it worse, then Harry, unknown to Bernard, becomes the Goblin. Finally he comes to the living room to see Harry missing half his face and a secret room filled with Goblin gear. When he over hears Peter talking he finally accepts that he needs to tell Harry the whole truth.

MJ must be the biggest d*** teasing ****e in comic movie history, she starts out with Flash, then moves to Harry, then puts the moves on Peter, then hooks up with John Jameson, then back to Peter, then in 3 she decides to flirt with (then actually kiss) Harry after twisting her little behind all over his kitchen, she is written as a very selfish unlikeable character.

No, she is written like a person who was bullied by her father and now needs constant male attention to have self essteam

Do I even need to mention the Saturday Night Fever sidewalk spider- boogie.

I liked it.

Peter actually lets Sandman get away after that ridiculous "I only did it to save my daughter, I've made mistakes" crap. I don't care what his motives are or what his sob story is Marko is still an escaped convict committing acts of robbery and violence. Peter let that one crook run past him in his origin that he regrets and wishes he had stopped, so what does he do?....he let's another one go,...no, I can't accept it, Peter would have more responsibility than that.

But Marko is not a murderer, he i not out to hurt anybody. If Peter took a moment to look at his actions he would see that Marko has no intention of hurting anyone.

And speaking of responsibility...Flint Marko killed Uncle Ben!? WHAT? "With great power comes great responsibility", THAT'S THE WHOLE FOUNDATION THAT SPIDER-MAN IS BUILT ON! He does what he does because of the guilt of allowing that crook to run past him that kills Uncle Ben, by now saying Uncle Ben wasn't killed by that guy it now removes the guilt factor, which then to me says he should feel no reason to be Spider-Man anymore. By using that senseless retcon it completely undermines the entire Spider-Man motivation and driving force for being a superhero, and on top of that it also says that Peter Parker is responsible for confronting an innocent man in a warehouse (whose only crime was armed robbery) and causing him to fall to his death. Terrible, terrible writing and there's no excuse for it.

Peter didn't cause he to fall to his death, he tripped. If Peter were the cause then no previous act from the burgular. As for the guilt, he let that go in Spider-Man 2 when he confided in Aunt May. Peter is driven by responsibilty not guilt. Just because the burgular didn't kill Uncle Ben doesn't mean he could not have.

Spider-Man 3 was terrible and I'm astonished that so many people on this poll found it more enjoyable than X3. People always complaining about "Well they killed Cyclops so the movie sucks". Cyclops has been the least important character of the whole team from the very beginning of the series and whether you like it or not Wolverine is clearly the star of the series. Cyclops just doesn't matter and it makes perfect sense that he would get offed,..get over it Cyclops lovers.

I love how you go on a rant about everything you find personally wrong about Spidey 3 and then tell Cyclops fans to get over theirs.

 

[The Sarge]

Nah, the butler thing was completely Deus ex Machina. There was nothing before hand to show that he had any knowledge of the green goblins identity, and what the hell was the butler doing cleaning the wounds of a corpse? And is he some sort of forensic scientist or something, since he's so sure about where the wounds came from "Yep, definatley glider spike shaped wounds. Let me remind you that the glider points aren't even exposed on the the thing most of the time.
The thing with writing stuff, is that if you're going to pull something like that out, you need to be able to reference it early on- and making the audience fill in the blanks doesn't cut it.

I'm surprised I never heard complaints of how Callisto was butchard in X3. No Eye-patch? Not even a proper punk chick look? Different powers all together?

 

[Eggyman]

No, she is written like a person who was bullied by her father and now needs constant male attention to have self essteam

To me it doesn't really matter about the excuses, but more about actual character. I'm sorry, but all these sympathetic villains have been given reasons for being how they are... but they are still vilains, just like how MJ is still a ho even though she has reasons for being this way.

But Marko is not a murderer, he i not out to hurt anybody. If Peter took a moment to look at his actions he would see that Marko has no intention of hurting anyone.

Rubbish. He...

• blasted a cop from the sand truck with his big, silly hand
• he then turned huge and blasted the rest of the cops shooting at him
• he then blew down the street, flipping cars and such
• jumped in an armoured van disregarding the lives of everyone on the road when taking control of it
• warned Spidey and then tried to give him a new hole
• left Spidey and the two in the front of the van to crash
• later he turned into the sandmonster and had a game of flatten the spider

Let's not forget that he is a theif. There are a lot of people out there with bad sh** in their lives, but they don't all rob banks. But I suppose I can forgive all of this because he isn't a bad person, he just has bad luck.


Yeh, he's a real gem.

---

As for you defence over the butler revelation, I can't even be bothered to get into that. There are a lot of things I can say about it, but the easiest is to just admit to it being really bad writing.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Because he's NOT giving away his freedom by helping Magneto, he feels he's ensuring his freedom by helping Magneto.

Seeing as the character had 2 lines in the movie, how the **** did you come up with this? Oh yes, i'll ensure my freedom by getting arrested and sent to prison for years for aiding and abetting a known terrorist, not to mention what I was in prison for already.

Man I don't think you watched this movie at all, Magneto..is on a mission...to free all mutantkind from human persecution...forever, do you understand that much? If Magneto succeeds in his mission the last thing Multiple Man has to worry about is being locked up by humans. Did you see the scene where Magneto is standing in front of his people in the forest and he's rallying them with his speech.....

"We shall go to Alcatraz Island, take control of the cure and destroy it's source and then nothing can stop us!

Ah yes, that really clever scene were Magneto tells his whole plan while he knows Wolverine is in the crowd, genius film-making once again.

And if Magneto did get control of the cure, whats stopping the humans from attacking Alcatraz with 50 million soldiers armed with plastic weapons, Magneto stupidly lost most of his army in that assault.

Magneto is telling his people that soon THEY WILL ALL BE FREE of human persecution forever, are you really saying that Multiple Man after hearing all of that he would be concerned about being in jail knowing that this man in front of him is on a mission to free all mutants from humans once and for all. These mutants are willing to KILL AND DIE for Magneto if need be and you find it difficult to believe that Multiple Man would be willing to use himself as bait?.... Are you being serious?
He's not taking freedom away from him, Magneto has told them that he has a plan and with their help very soon... THEY WILL ALL BE FREE FOREVER. They all believe that Magneto can end their imprisonment and persecution......forever....does that make sense?

It does make sense, but this isnt what was portrayed in the movie at all. OH yes, Once Magneto has control of the world/country, whatever, he really is going to search for MM and free him isnt he? NO. Not to mention, why is MM willing to die for Magneto after speaking to him once? Come on man, have you seen some 3 hour extended cut we havent or something?

You should watch it (and this time listen to it) again.

I've watched it enough, its a pile of ****.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And that lover happened to come back so killing him instead of making him accept her death was pointless.

That hardly makes any sense.
Did Daniel-San kill Mr. Miyagi?

The big fiery bird didn't look stupid at the end of X2...

Yeah, she hated them at the beginning, and started accepting them and responsibility to the X-Men in the second film. I agree she would consider the cure, but reverting her back to the Rogue we were introduced do was a major step backwards.

Not at all.

Exactly, Rogue was clearly part of the team and had accepted that role at the end of X2, only for her to go back again to a the character she was in X1, great film-making . Also, WHY did Jean kill Scott and Xavier again? And it was in continuity with X1 and X2? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......Oh god, that was a good one!

How so?


It's not out of the blue. Here is what I always got from the butler. He always knew that Osborn was the Green Goblin, in Spider-Man 1 he is there when Norman finds out about the Goblin suit being missing and is also told he is not well. Then you factor in that Norman was always ranting and raving at himself, in one scene Harry hears him ranting from a good distance away from his room. How could Bernard not know he was the Goblin?

He didn't tell Harry who is father was because that wouldn't make the pain go away, it would just make it worse, then Harry, unknown to Bernard, becomes the Goblin. Finally he comes to the living room to see Harry missing half his face and a secret room filled with Goblin gear. When he over hears Peter talking he finally accepts that he needs to tell Harry the whole truth.


No, she is written like a person who was bullied by her father and now needs constant male attention to have self essteam


I liked it.


But Marko is not a murderer, he i not out to hurt anybody. If Peter took a moment to look at his actions he would see that Marko has no intention of hurting anyone.


Peter didn't cause he to fall to his death, he tripped. If Peter were the cause then no previous act from the burgular. As for the guilt, he let that go in Spider-Man 2 when he confided in Aunt May. Peter is driven by responsibilty not guilt. Just because the burgular didn't kill Uncle Ben doesn't mean he could not have.


I love how you go on a rant about everything you find personally wrong about Spidey 3 and then tell Cyclops fans to get over theirs.

Ridiculous.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

And that lover happened to come back so killing him instead of making him accept her death was pointless.

Let me guess, you must be one of the "Cyclops lovers" that I mentioned in my earlier rant?

That hardly makes any sense.
Did Daniel-San kill Mr. Miyagi?

No he didn't....but Darth Vader killed Obi-Wan.

The big fiery bird didn't look stupid at the end of X2...

That was a barely visible image seen underwater, not a blazing fire image shooting across the sky.

Yeah, she hated them at the beginning, and started accepting them and responsibility to the X-Men in the second film. I agree she would consider the cure, but reverting her back to the Rogue we were introduced do was a major step backwards.

She never accepted her powers, she's hated them from the beginning right to the very end.

 

[Majik1387]

Let me guess, you must be one of the "Cyclops lovers" that I mentioned in my earlier rant?

A fan yes, I wouldn't say a lover, thought James Marsden is a hottie. I agree the love triangle works for the movies, but at the end of X2 it clearly showed and said that Jean chose Scott. With that said, I also don't believe Scott could have killed Jean and Logan was the one who needed to do it.

No he didn't....but Darth Vader killed Obi-Wan.

Besides Star Wars sucking, Vader chose to be evil instead of good. Dark Phoenix is pretty much a possession of Jean Grey, Jean wasn't the one who killed Xavier, so technically, not a student killing her mentor.

That was a barely visible image seen underwater, not a blazing fire image shooting across the sky.

The big fiery bird was far from being barely visible, there was a clear outline in the water for a good amount of time to show that the Phoenix was coming. And there were flames around Jean as she fought Cyclops and held back the water for the jet to escape.

She never accepted her powers, she's hated them from the beginning right to the very end.

This is where you're wrong. When Magneto and Mystique were being witty in the X-Jet, she was prepared to use her powers on them, which contrasted to her being afraid of them or hating them. She was ready to use them.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

How so?

Peter and MJ from the first film to the last are just two people who have no clue how to handle a relationship. All that constant "Do you love me?".. "Yes but you don't love me.".. "But I just told you I loved you".. "But I'm not sure I believe you",..., "MJ I'm different now".. "But you once told me loved me"..."Yeah I still do but don't tell Harry" "But that was yesterday do you love me today?"... "Yes but I'm getting married to John"... "But you said loved me"... "No I don't, because you didn't come see my play", "But I'm not an empty seat anymore".. "So who's the girl with her polished nails all over you" "That's a girl in my science class" "So that means you don't love me?".... and it just goes on, and on, and on, and on.
They sound like kids in middle school,.... immature.

It's not out of the blue.

It was completely out of the blue.

He didn't tell Harry who is father was because that wouldn't make the pain go away, it would just make it worse, then Harry, unknown to Bernard, becomes the Goblin. Finally he comes to the living room to see Harry missing half his face and a secret room filled with Goblin gear. When he over hears Peter talking he finally accepts that he needs to tell Harry the whole truth.

I accept this explanation, however it would not have looked so out of the blue if the writers had simply laid that down earlier and had actually shown Bernard on screen listening to the conversation when Peter is asking for Harry's help, that way we as the viewer would at least know why Bernard was compelled to speak at that moment. The way that they shot it he just waltzed in and started talking.

No, she is written like a person who was bullied by her father and now needs constant male attention to have self essteam

And to me a central character with low self esteem is a character who is unlikable.

I liked it.

Oh well, if a man in the 21st century dancing to 70's music imitating John Travolta is your thing...go with it.

But Marko is not a murderer, he i not out to hurt anybody. If Peter took a moment to look at his actions he would see that Marko has no intention of hurting anyone.

His intentions doesn't matter, the fact that he's not a murderer doesn't matter, he's a criminal...and criminals go to jail.

Peter didn't cause he to fall to his death, he tripped.

He tripped because Peter confronted him and attacked him, he caused that man to fall.

As for the guilt, he let that go in Spider-Man 2 when he confided in Aunt May. Peter is driven by responsibilty not guilt.

Which brings me back to letting the Sandman go, where's his responsibility now?