Best of Each Bond?

[Dark Raven]

was it the same of the previous films from the 60's/70's?

In the 60s, Bond was huge, like the Beatles. In the 70s too, but obviously a little died down. What you see today, and what you see in the US is a fraction of what it was before in previous decades, and in the UK.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, even though Bond has done some record numbers lately, he was still a bigger phenomenon in those years.

 

[jolldan]

It's the same film that Kahran Ramsus was referring to above. In TMWTGG, Roger Moore slaps Maud Adams around and threatens to break her arm after twisting it cruelly behind her back.

No wonder she joined an Octopus cult where they have many more arms.

I had to go back and try and find the clip so I could remember which one I was talking about its in Dr No the one im meaning.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

He also twisted her arm, and when she said he was hurting her, he said he would break it if she didn't talk.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

In the 60s, Bond was huge, like the Beatles. In the 70s too, but obviously a little died down. What you see today, and what you see in the US is a fraction of what it was before in previous decades, and in the UK.

At its peak Bond was HUGE. Adjusted for inflation, Goldfinger and Thunderball both did over $600 million in the US alone. And the merchandise was everywhere. Toys, gadgets, clothing, cologne, cars, you name it.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah man, I can't fault the stealth-boat scene at all. It's dorky and totally over-the-top, but that's what they were going for. That scene's a blast, a whole lot of fun. Staged really well too, Apted seemed to know his action shiz. That parahawk sequence is awesome, even if not entirely original and feeling a little "been there done that elsewhere", still really entertaining.

And yeah, love that opening scene in DaD, honestly one of the better individual sequences in the whole Brosnan era. Of course it all goes downhill pretty damn quickly after the opening credits, but...

Apted's action was pretty dynamic, and with the ski sequence if was a nice throwback to the old Moore Bond's I'd grown up on, so that was an extra tick in the positve box for me, even if it ended up with that silly inflatable ball suit gimmick.

It's amazing that Die Another Day starts out with a classic real stunt work Bond action sequence, and then later in the film we see some horribly staged stuff and some of the worst CGI ever seen in a big blockbuster.

Even Tomorrow Never Dies, which is just kinda...non-memorable for the most part (not that DaD's "memorable" in any positive way ), I kinda dig. It has its moments, and a couple of cool broad concepts. The general ideas of TND but played in a more grounded Dalton-or-Craig-movie manner could have been pretty great I think, certainly timely when it came out. Some of the action-y stuff in the second half with Michelle Yeoh is fun too.

Goldeneye's heads-and-shoulders above everything that came after (and let's be honest, even that has its share of goofy stuff with Boris, Jack Wade, and Minnie Driver's character), but no way TND & TWINE are in that bottom category of Bond flicks overall. Nothing ambitious about 'em whatsoever, but they're competent & entertaining.

I found Pryce so ludicrously camp in Tomorrow Never Dies that he killed the evil media concept for me, but it is actually a decent idea if played a different way, I mean obviously they let him go over the top with his performance but he was like a pantomime villain. Yeah the action aspect with Michelle Yeoh in the mix is cool and the bike chase in particular is one of the best Bond movie chases I'd say.

I'd forgotten about Minnie Driver's character!



Whatever you say about Brosnan's run it produced the greatest Bond game and one of the greatest FPS's ever!

Post lunch carve-up....Roger Moore, not a name, more of an instruction.

Exactly, Boxing Day = leftovers, warmed up Christmas Pud with custard and some Bond, tradition more than choice!

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I thought TND was an entertaining enough action film. It wasn't the greatest Bond film in the world, but it was satisfactory. The best of the non-Goldeneye Brosnan films. Everybody says about how over-the-top Carver was, which is true, but is he really that out of place compared to the all the wackos in news media today?

 

[TheVileOne]

I love the opening for Tomorrow Never Dies, but that's about it.

 

[Aximili86]

I'd put TWINE above TND by quite a bit overall, better villains, a little more grim, a little lighter on the crazy tech-y stuff and a bit more grounded looking. But yeah, TND's no worse than 3 or 4 of the Moore movies, one or two of the Connery ones. I'd watch it over Spectre any day of the week too.

And yeah, Hunter, Goldeneye N64, those were the frickin' days. Makes me feel old, heh, still feel there's no way you'll ever match the multiplayer mayhem of four people cramped around a small CRT TV using different Bond & villain characters in a free-for-all. Enduring the laggy frame rates and blocky graphics and not giving the slightest damn about that. No newfangled hi-def 60-player online game is ever going to match it, it's a different beast.

...I just said "newfangled". *Hangs head in shame* Get offa my lawwwn, ya damn kids.

 

[KevTravels]

I absolutely adored Tomorrow Never Dies as a kid. I was maybe 9. Michelle Yeoh was INSANELY AWESOME.

 

[Aximili86]

She's still awesome!

But yeah, best "Bond girl" of the Brosnan era. I don't think we count Elektra, she's sort of above the "Bond girl" status like Vesper. Not as good, but substantial the same way.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Elektra's the main villain, which I think disqualifies her from being a Bond girl. That's not her role in the plot. I do consider Vesper a Bond girl.

And yes, Wai Lin is by far the best of the Brosnan Bond girls.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I'd put TWINE above TND by quite a bit overall, better villains, a little more grim, a little lighter on the crazy tech-y stuff and a bit more grounded looking. But yeah, TND's no worse than 3 or 4 of the Moore movies, one or two of the Connery ones. I'd watch it over Spectre any day of the week too.

And yeah, Hunter, Goldeneye N64, those were the frickin' days. Makes me feel old, heh, still feel there's no way you'll ever match the multiplayer mayhem of four people cramped around a small CRT TV using different Bond & villain characters in a free-for-all. Enduring the laggy frame rates and blocky graphics and not giving the slightest damn about that. No newfangled hi-def 60-player online game is ever going to match it, it's a different beast.

...I just said "newfangled". *Hangs head in shame* Get offa my lawwwn, ya damn kids.

When weighing up Tomorrow Never Dies vs The World is not Enough, I need to weight up the Bike chase vs the Ski chase, it's a scientific process y'see!?

Agreed, Goldeneye N64 multiplayer Golden Gun mode, everyone racing around trying to get it for the one shot kill, good times!

 

[Aximili86]

Take that, 90s Playstation heathens. I crush you.

**** the N64 was awesome. Good times, man.

 

[Dark Raven]

Elektra's the main villain, which I think disqualifies her from being a Bond girl. That's not her role in the plot. I do consider Vesper a Bond girl.

And yes, Wai Lin is by far the best of the Brosnan Bond girls.

I don't see how that disqualifies her from being a Bond girl. A Bond girl is a female love interest in the Bond franchise.

In any event, Bond didn't know she was a villain, let alone the main one, when he bedded her. For all intents and purposes, she was just another Bond girl to him.

And what do you mean by "best" as far as Wai Lin goes? Most competent? Most developed? Most attractive?

For me, I'd say Xenia Onatopp was the "best" of the Brosnan Bond girls.

 

[Aximili86]

Onatopp's not a "Bond girl". If he's not smacking her around while she's trying to force herself on him sexually, he's trying to kill her. She's as "villain" as it gets. Awesome character, but still.

 

[Dark Raven]

Onatopp's not a "Bond girl". If he's not smacking her around while she's trying to force herself on him sexually, he's trying to kill her. She's as "villain" as it gets. Awesome character, but still.

I don't think you really get the concept of Bond girl. Whether they're a villain or not, they're still considered a Bond girl. Would you say Fiona Volpe wasn't a Bond girl then? She was a villain in Thunderball who tried to kill Bond. She's always been classed as a Bond girl however.

Same with Grace Jones in AVTAK. She might look rather manly and intimidating, but every Bond documentary or book has always considered her a Bond girl. This is also true of Xenia Onatopp.

There's always a good Bond girl and a bad Bond girl. Doesn't matter which side they're on. They're still a Bond girl.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I was not a fan of TND. Honestly, Goldeneye is amazing but the rest of Brosnan's films suck. I don't blame him. The movies around him just are awful.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I think the term 'Bond Girl' is a female that interacts and ends up on the end of Bond's 'libido' bar Moneypenny, who ironically, has the most 'level' and respectful relationship with what effectively is a 'walking armed penis'.

 

[Dark Raven]

I was not a fan of TND. Honestly, Goldeneye is amazing but the rest of Brosnan's films suck. I don't blame him. The movies around him just are awful.

I would actually prefer TND Brosnan in Goldeneye than Goldeneye Brosnan. In Goldeneye, he was a little too slim and his longer hair made him look more like Remington Steele, especially with the blazer and gold buttons. In TND, he had bulked up a little more and his hair was better. Put that version of Brosnan in Goldeneye and it would be a much better film.

I think the term 'Bond Girl' is a female that interacts and ends up on the end of Bond's 'libido' bar Moneypenny, who ironically, has the most 'level' and respectful relationship with what effectively is a 'walking armed penis'.

I would agree with this definition of a Bond girl. It doesn't matter whether they're good or bad. As long as Bond has some sexual kind of encounter with them. Although he never got sexual with Olga Kurylenko, so does that now disqualify her as a Bond girl? She completely friend zoned him.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I don't see how that disqualifies her from being a Bond girl. A Bond girl is a female love interest in the Bond franchise.

In any event, Bond didn't know she was a villain, let alone the main one, when he bedded her. For all intents and purposes, she was just another Bond girl to him.

And what do you mean by "best" as far as Wai Lin goes? Most competent? Most developed? Most attractive?

For me, I'd say Xenia Onatopp was the "best" of the Brosnan Bond girls.

Competent and entertaining.

As for what a Bond girl is, I view them as desirable girls that Bond (usually) sleeps with and either assists him in some way or dies in order to motivate him. Basically they exist to help Bond and be a love interest. I would not count villains as Bond girls. Their primary role in the story is completely different. They aren't there to be objects of Bond's affection like Bond girls are. The exception would be "villains" that switch sides to Bond partway into the film (ex. ***** Galore, Octopussy).

I would not count May Day, Xenia, Fiona Volpe, Rosa Klebb, Elektra, Irma Bunt, Miranda Frost, and the like as Bond girls.

Olga Kurylenko doesn't sleep with Bond, but she is definitely a Bond girl. She's the main good girl, she's a Bond girl. Moneypenny usually isn't included due to being a recurring character.

 

[Dark Raven]

Competent and entertaining.

As for what a Bond girl is, I view them as desirable girls that Bond (usually) sleeps with and either assists him in some way or dies in order to motivate him. Basically they exist to help Bond and be a love interest. I would not count villains as Bond girls. Their primary role in the story is completely different. They aren't there to be objects of Bond's affection like Bond girls are. The exception would be "villains" that switch sides to Bond partway into the film (ex. ***** Galore, Octopussy).

I would not count May Day, Xenia, Fiona Volpe, Rosa Klebb, Elektra, Irma Bunt, Miranda Frost, and the like as Bond girls.

Olga Kurylenko doesn't sleep with Bond, but she is definitely a Bond girl. She's the main good girl, she's a Bond girl. Moneypenny usually isn't included due to being a recurring character.

But every Bond book and documentary disagrees with your definition of a Bond girl, because they would count all of those in that category. Well, not Rosa Klebb, but all the others.

But then, do you consider M in Skyfall to be a Bond girl? Since you say Bond (usually) sleeps with them, but not all the time, but they help him in some way, then M does exactly that. She is there right until the end and he goes out of his way to protect her. She isn't a love interest, but neither was Olga Kurylenko. And maybe some old men might find her desirable, like that old friend of Bond's at Skyfall lodge who even started referring to her as Emma.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

But every Bond book and documentary disagrees with your definition of a Bond girl, because they would count all of those in that category. Well, not Rosa Klebb, but all the others.

But then, do you consider M in Skyfall to be a Bond girl? Since you say Bond (usually) sleeps with them, but not all the time, but they help him in some way, then M does exactly that. She is there right until the end and he goes out of his way to protect her. She isn't a love interest, but neither was Olga Kurylenko. And maybe some old men might find her desirable, like that old friend of Bond's at Skyfall lodge who even started referring to her as Emma.

Generally speaking, yeah, M would qualify. However, much like Moneypenny she is basically exempt due to being a part of the regular supporting cast.

 

[Dark Raven]

Generally speaking, yeah, M would qualify. However, much like Moneypenny she is basically exempt due to being a part of the regular supporting cast.

Well Moneypenny, before her identity was made official, was marketed as a Bond girl. She could have been another MI6 agent, but that wouldn't stop her being a Bond girl. After all, Molly Warmflash was one.

Moneypenny wasn't part of the regular supporting cast either at this point but had only been introduced for the first time in this film. Do you consider she was a Bond girl at the start of Skyfall, but then stopped being one the moment she officially revealed her name was Moneypenny?

 

[Hunter Rider]

The Bond girl debate is interesting, I've never thought of May Day or Xenia as Bond girls but rather the female versios of the classic henchman like Oddjob and Jaws, even though May Day kinda turns at the end of A View to a Kill.

Elektra King is the really interesting one as she is a classic Bond girl for half of the movie but then is revealed as the actual main villain in the second half, not just a henchwoman. The way Bond disposes of her as well is probably the most ruthless we see him in the Brosnan movies.

Onatopp's not a "Bond girl". If he's not smacking her around while she's trying to force herself on him sexually, he's trying to kill her. She's as "villain" as it gets. Awesome character, but still.

"It depends on your definition of safe sex" line in the scene where she jumps him in the sauna might be my favourite quip from Brosnan's Bond.