Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

[Mjölnir]

Someone asked whether we think BB, TDK and TDKR or TFA, TWS and CW are better. That's the core of what this thread is about.

When it comes to the definition of a trilogy I prefer to look at a dictionary. The Oxford Dictionary's first definition reads "a group of three related novels, plays, films, etc". A suitably vague definition for a term that's been used in various ways. Cap's movies fall well within that definition so as long as one recognizes that dictionary you can't say it's wrong.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Time and time again Captain America isn't a trilogy.

Agreed. Only 3 of 5 movies with Captain America.

 

[Travesty]

I guess by definition it is semantics, but that word is usually used as a way of saying you're splitting hairs and derailing the conversation.

lol, are we about to get into a debate of semantics, over the term "semantics"?

Semantiception! Holy ****, maybe Nolan does win this round?

That first part, "can be seen as a single work", is key here.

Yes, but the point I'm making, is BOTH are trilogies. When someone says the Cap trilogy isn't a real trilogy, it's false. You're just wrong. Now, if you say you resonate with one trilogy over the other because you prefer certain qualities within your trilogies, then that's fine. But to deny the reality of certain definitions, in order to try and "win" a debate, just makes you look like an idiot(again, I'm not talking about you in particular).

So when Mjölnir said we should stay away from the semantics, I agree with him. But that doesn't mean you should stop talking about why you like one trilogy over the other. If you prefer your trilogies to be more self contained or whatever, then say that. But to say, "the Cap trilogy isn't really a trilogy" is just foolish. Then we're back into semantics territory, when we shouldn't be there to begin with, because both are obviously trilogies. I mean, seriously, what is the point of doing that?

 

[Flint Marko]

Someone asked whether we think BB, TDK and TDKR or TFA, TWS and CW are better. That's the core of what this thread is about.

When it comes to the definition of a trilogy I prefer to look at a dictionary. The Oxford Dictionary's first definition reads "a group of three related novels, plays, films, etc". A suitably vague definition for a term that's been used in various ways. Cap's movies fall well within that definition so as long as one recognizes that dictionary you can't say it's wrong.

 

[BatLobster]

"a group of three related novels, plays, films, etc". A suitably vague definition for a term that's been used in various ways. Cap's movies fall well within that definition so as long as one recognizes that dictionary you can't say it's wrong.

I never said it was wrong, but I can say that I disagree with it.

Because even if you use the most vague and loose definition, there is still the argument that it's not a group of 3- that the Avengers films are just as essential to the story. And in the case of Civil War, the Iron Man films too.

As I argued earlier, if the only definition we want to use is "a group of three related films", then that means Iron Man/Iron Man 2/The Avengers is a trilogy, The Avengers/Age of Ultron/Civil War is a trilogy, so on and so forth.

Anyway, I think I've made my point so I'll leave it at that.

lol, are we about to get into a debate of semantics, over the term "semantics"?

Semantiception! Holy ****, maybe Nolan does win this round?

It was awfully meta of us, I know.

Yes, but the point I'm making, is BOTH are trilogies. When someone says the Cap trilogy isn't a real trilogy, it's false. You're just wrong. Now, if you say you resonate with one trilogy over the other because you prefer certain qualities within your trilogies, then that's fine. But to deny the reality of certain definitions, in order to try and "win" a debate, just makes you look like an idiot(again, I'm not talking about you in particular).

So when Mjölnir said we should stay away from the semantics, I agree with him. But that doesn't mean you should stop talking about why you like one trilogy over the other. If you prefer your trilogies to be more self contained or whatever, then say that. But to say, "the Cap trilogy isn't really a trilogy" is just foolish. Then we're back into semantics territory, when we shouldn't be there to begin with, because both are obviously trilogies. I mean, seriously, what is the point of doing that?

Fair enough. I've been trying to make it clear that I have no problem if someone considers it a trilogy, but I've been also just been trying to explain my point of view on why I think totally fair to argue some trilogies are more "trilogy" than others.

It's just a different way of arguing the point, rather than comparing the individual films, I prefer to look at them each as a body of work. I promise, it's not just something I'm pulling out my @ss just to prop up TDKT- it's THE reason I've grown to love the storytelling form of a trilogy. Thesis/Antithesis/Synthesis. It all stems back to the original Star Wars trilogy to me, that's the benchmark and when I hear the word "trilogy" that's automatically the thing I'm comparing something to, especially when we're talking about the action/adventure/sci-fi genre. Thematic trilogies are cool and all, but I don't think anyone here is arguing that the Cap films are a thematic trilogy. The only real argument I can see is that they all have the same main character. But again, by that logic the first three Craig Bond films are a trilogy, yet I don't know if anyone really thinks of them that way.

And with that, seriously- I don't want to carry this out any longer, so I'll try not to belabor the point any more than I have.

 

[Kobra]

You must just be referring to TDK. While BB and TDKR may be generally well liked I don't think they are any more acclaimed than Marvel's top movies. Not from my experience anyway seeing as we are using anecdotes as evidence.

Acclaimed in what sense? TDKR has an average rating of 8/10 on RT. How many Marvel movies have more than that? Not even CW or TWS have that.

 

[MarvelFan]

Cap trilogy, of course...

I can watch Cap 1, Cap 2, Cap 3 several times in 1 week but i can only managed to watch TDK Trilogy only 1 time at the time

 

[Havok83]

Captain America. Outside of TDK, I really didnt like the Batman films

 

[ripse]

If cap trilogy is not trilogy why batman nolan is trilogy, where in the title film is so very different batman begins, the dark knight, the dark knight rises . the dark knight just have 2 movie with same title movie so is not tdk trilogy

Cap really have same title where is cap tfa, cap tws, and cap civil war where the title is look same and yes is cap trilogy, so no doubt


and yes again cap trilogy look better

 

[Batmannerism]

If cap trilogy is not trilogy why batman nolan is trilogy, where in the title film is so very different batman begins, the dark knight, the dark knight rises . the dark knight just have 2 movie with same title movie so is not tdk trilogy

Cap really have same title where is cap tfa, cap tws, and cap civil war where the title is look same and yes is cap trilogy, so no doubt

and yes again cap trilogy look better

I mean you no disrespect but what you have said shows that you misunderstand what a trilogy is.

The title has nothing to do with it, at all - if it did, original Star Wars would not be a trilogy - and it's probably one of the most famous film trilogies of all time.

It's more about being a complete story in 3 parts.

Captain America and Iron Man appear in other films together and those other films affect the story of Civil War.

For example, the stuff that happens in Age of Ultron is super important for Civil War - in fact most of the stuff in Civil War wouldn't have happened if Age of Ultron hadn't happened ( because all of Zemo's actions relate to what the Avengers did in Sokovia).

Nolan's trilogy has 3 parts a beginning, a middle and an ending. It does not rely on any other stories and is complete within itself.

By those terms Cap's movies are not really a trilogy. Cap's movies are still awesome but they are not a trilogy.

Personally, I think the whole thread is misconceived and a better comparison would be between Iron Man's film series and Cap's film series (or Thor's films after Ragnarok comes out) because neither of them are really trilogies. That is my opinion, I know plenty will disagree but that is how I see it.

And most importantly, this does not diminish the Cap films in any way - they are fantastic.

 

[Havok83]

If cap trilogy is not trilogy why batman nolan is trilogy, where in the title film is so very different batman begins, the dark knight, the dark knight rises . the dark knight just have 2 movie with same title movie so is not tdk trilogy

Cap really have same title where is cap tfa, cap tws, and cap civil war where the title is look same and yes is cap trilogy, so no doubt


and yes again cap trilogy look better

Huh? A film franchise doesnt have the same main title per movie in order to be a trilogy

 

[ripse]

hmm, maybe ur right, example trilogy with different title like The Divergent Trilogy is Divergent, Insurgent, and Allegiant

But with different title in trilogy movie is look hard to understand for common people, almost

 

[jaymes_e06]

I enjoyed TDK series more than any of the Cap movies outside of TWS which I rank higher than any of them. This being said I still have to go with TDK.

 

[Havok83]

hmm, maybe ur right, example trilogy with different title like The Divergent Trilogy is Divergent, Insurgent, and Allegiant

But with different title in trilogy movie is look hard to understand for common people, almost

I think thats only if you've never seen the films bc it becomes very apparent considering they were released a few years apart, have the same actors and continue the same story threads

 

[DACrowe]

I am going to get hated for this, but whatever, here we go:

Not only do I like TDK trilogy over the Cap trilogy--3 of the best superhero movies ever while, IMO, the Cap trilogy has only 1 of the best superhero movies ever--but on top of that... I think I prefer the X-Men First Class trilogy. [resists the urge to run for the door.]

Before you get your torches, let me explain. First, Civil War is so much better than X-Men: Apocalypse. Civil War might be in my Top 10 superhero movies ever, Apocalypse is nowhere near the top 20. With that said, neither is Captain America: The First Avenger, which I found exceedingly forgettable, mediocre, and absolutely devoid of rewatchability. Meanwhile, I would put First Class and DOFP in my top 10 superhero movies.

So for me, it goes:

First Class >>>>> First Avenger
Days of Future Past > The Winter Soldier
Apocalypse <<<<<< Civil War.

Anyway, that still favors X-Men 2/3. So for me, Cap is at best the third best superhero trilogy. I will now excuse myself as I am burned in effigy on this board.

 

[Erzengel]

I feel the opposite. I liked Apocalypse. Id' give it a 6.5/7 and would rank it the 3rd best CBM trilogy behind Captain America and TDK.

 

[DACrowe]

That is actually around what I would give Apocalypse as well, but since I'd give the first two a 9/10 that is a step down. I would also give Civil War a 9/10. But I agree, Apocalypse hate is getting a little overblown, including by critics.

 

[Erzengel]

Here's the thing. I've been waiting on the a full blown out X-Men/Mutant battle. And when Singer finally gave us a scene in Apocalypse.

Spoiler

Half the time, it's people standing around staring or "gearing" up their powers. I'm all for timing and lead up, but it felt like 10 minutes before Jean actually phoenixed up after Xavier told her to.

These types of scenes aren't Singers forte . He's good at the exhibition of singular powers. Quicksilver running, Magneto doing magnetic things, etc. But when it comes to battle scenes, he needs help.

 

[DACrowe]

Yep, pretty much agreed. I actually did love the buildup and use of Jean Grey going Phoenix on Apocalypse, as well as the Quicksilver moments both in the mansion and against Apocalypse, but everything else about those final fights left a lot to be desired. Cyclops just stood still and shot beams while Magneto or Storm floated in place and shot metal or electricity.

I actually think Vaughn on a much smaller budget, and with C-list mutants, filmed way more kinetic energy in First Class. Still, I will not pretend the Phoenix did not make me smile. But the franchise needs more next time.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

The point should be that TWS and CW wouldn't be nearly as good without the other films in the MCU to lean on. If you take out all three Iron Mans, both Avengers, Ant-man, etc... would TWS and CW be as good? No. Therefore, Captain America's three movies have a distinct advantage over a true standalone trilogy in the Dark Knight trilogy. For those reasons, MCU films shouldn't be pulled out and cherry picked the way they are in this thread.

 

[Havok83]

You guys should probably spoiler tag any talk of X-men. You are ruining arguably the best moment about the final battle

The point should be that TWS and CW wouldn't be nearly as good without the other films in the MCU to lean on. If you take out all three Iron Mans, both Avengers, Ant-man, etc... would TWS and CW be as good? No. Therefore, Captain America's three movies have a distinct advantage over a true standalone trilogy in the Dark Knight trilogy. For those reasons, MCU films shouldn't be pulled out and cherry picked the way they are in this thread.

Yes. TWS is the best MCU film IMO. Its very standalone and doesnt need any other film besides the previous entry, The First Avenger. CW only needs Avengers AoU as it directly follows plotlines from there . IM's trilogy and Ant-Man's films are pretty irrelevant and are recommended but not required material for CW. They dont strengthen and make it better. I dont see how the CW films have an advantage over Batman. Many would argue that being part of a larger MCU is a detriment bc so many threads are drawn from outside

 

[Rowsdower!]

This is a tough one. Both are great. I think I'll give the edge to the Dark Knight Trilogy though, maybe just because I'm more of a Batman fan and BB was a stronger debut than Cap: TFA. But I love both trilogies.

 

[Erzengel]

You guys should probably spoiler tag any talk of X-men. You are ruining arguably the best moment about the final battle



Yes. TWS is the best MCU film IMO. Its very standalone and doesnt need any other film besides the previous entry, The First Avenger. CW only needs Avengers AoU as it directly follows plotlines from there . IM's trilogy and Ant-Man's films are pretty irrelevant and are recommended but not required material for CW. They dont strengthen and make it better. I dont see how the CW films have an advantage over Batman. Many would argue that being part of a larger MCU is a detriment bc so many threads are drawn from outside

I like that though.

When you're reading a comic and there's a * after a comment and it says read Avengers Annual #1.

And I've said this before, I feel as someone who's watched all 13 movies, I'm being rewarded for having kept up. And who knows maybe stuff like this would get people interested in the other movies. Hey I missed the First Avenger, let me catch up on that.

 

[Mr. Forest]

The Dark Knight Trilogy. I love all three films, where I only find TWS of the Cap "trilogy" to be on par with them.

 

[hafizbat]

I am going to get hated for this, but whatever, here we go:

Not only do I like TDK trilogy over the Cap trilogy--3 of the best superhero movies ever while, IMO, the Cap trilogy has only 1 of the best superhero movies ever--but on top of that... I think I prefer the X-Men First Class trilogy. [resists the urge to run for the door.]

Before you get your torches, let me explain. First, Civil War is so much better than X-Men: Apocalypse. Civil War might be in my Top 10 superhero movies ever, Apocalypse is nowhere near the top 20. With that said, neither is Captain America: The First Avenger, which I found exceedingly forgettable, mediocre, and absolutely devoid of rewatchability. Meanwhile, I would put First Class and DOFP in my top 10 superhero movies.

So for me, it goes:

First Class >>>>> First Avenger
Days of Future Past > The Winter Soldier
Apocalypse <<<<<< Civil War.

Anyway, that still favors X-Men 2/3. So for me, Cap is at best the third best superhero trilogy. I will now excuse myself as I am burned in effigy on this board.

Yeah, I do hate this opinion

After Apocalypse, the First Class trilogy shouldn't even be in the discussion for best superhero trilogy. It's no different from the Riami Spider-Man movies, with 2 good/great movies marred by a pathetic threequel. Same goes for the original Singer X-Men movies, for that matter.

The TDKT and Cap trilogy are in a league of their own.