Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

[Spider-Aziz]

and then somehow couldn't find a way out for MONTHS (do they not have manholes in Gotham?), and THEN when they finally do get out, they're all apparently showered and clean shaven?

And not starved to death.

 

[Travesty]

You guys are all talking about cops in sewers, and I'm just wondering how Robin John Blake knew Bruce Wayne was Batman, just because his orphan senses were tingling.

Goddamn!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

You guys are all talking about cops in sewers, and I'm just wondering how Robin John Blake knew Bruce Wayne was Batman, just because his orphan senses were tingling.

We made jokes about this. Numerous times.

 

[Hammer!]

You guys are all talking about cops in sewers, and I'm just wondering how Robin John Blake knew Bruce Wayne was Batman, just because his orphan senses were tingling.

Goddamn!

You can lose brain cells if you try to figure out that film’s internal logic.

 

[The Joker]

I honestly don't really see how that's a problem, I mean Age of Ultron also had the Avengers smashing apart an army of disposable drones while trying to stop a doomsday device.

They even repeated the same joke of having Hulk do a comical beat down on the villain.

 

[OutOfBoose]

What about the bizarre stock exchange robbery? Or magical Clean Slate, when RJB has a profile on Kyle on paper? Or that incredible plane hijack, that can fool only people with IQ 42 or below? Or nobody noticing supposedly dead Bruce Wayne in "broad daylight"? Or Batman being mildly annoyed by Kyle's use of guns?

 

[Hammer!]

What about the bizarre stock exchange robbery? Or magical Clean Slate, when RJB has a profile on Kyle on paper? Or that incredible plane hijack, that can fool only people with IQ 42 or below? Or nobody noticing supposedly dead Bruce Wayne in "broad daylight"? Or Batman being mildly annoyed by Kyle's use of guns?

Like I said best not to overthink that movie lol

It’s not one to invite progressive thought after watching. Although why would they let Someone into the Wall St. bank wearing a biker helmet covering his face lmao. Ok I should stop before I get into a page long rant about how mind boggling dumb this film is.

 

[DACrowe]

You guys are all talking about cops in sewers, and I'm just wondering how Robin John Blake knew Bruce Wayne was Batman, just because his orphan senses were tingling.

Goddamn!

To play devil's advocate, the movie is making us aware of something that is always a flaw of Batman mythology: how do folks not figure out Bruce Wayne is Batman? He is an uber-funded vigilante who is always driving his fancy car that looks like a lot of Wayne Technology (the military-industrial tech firm that employs a huge percentage of the city) that is always driving into the city from the vague direction of Wayne Manor.

I think College Humor did a parody of this where Jim Gordon yells, "It's a small list of who can own a jet that flies out of a holographic mountain, Bruce!"

When you think about it that way, John Blake is simply the sane mind in a world gone mad.

(They also establish the cops just have no interest in figuring out who is Batman while Blake did, but yeah, that is awfully convenient.)

 

[DACrowe]

P.S. I like Spider-Fan have exhausted a lot of my will to relitigate TDKR (although from the opposing side!). But I will say, folks really dwell on the story "flaws" in that (some I agree with some I think are stretching), but there seems to be a concerted effort to just pile on that movie for it. I believe it is partially because it is perceived as the "weak link" of TDKT, at least among comic book fans, and because as I've mentioned the movie's entire thesis is a kind of rejection of comic book logic.

With that said, we could tear down most other comic book movies, including The Dark Knight, just as easily. I just find Rises getting so much of the ardor is to find the flaw in the armor, if you know what I mean? Because the trilogy just stands so tall above most of the entire genre as a whole.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Not the trilogy. Only TDK.

 

[Erzengel]

Because the trilogy just stands so tall above most of the entire genre as a whole.

Spider-Man 3
Blade Trinity
X-Men: The Last Stand
X-Men: Wolverine Origins
X-Men: Apocalypse
Thor: Dark World
Iron Man 2 or 3 depending on the person

So if TDK's weak link is TKDR and Cap's is TFA, it's much easier to stand tall.

I'm not sure if Avengers can be included because it looks like it's going to be a 4 series movie.

I think GOTG3 would have to be as good if not superior to the original to be able to start comparisons.

 

[Boy Scout]

Not the trilogy. Only TDK.

I’d have to watch TDKR again to be certain (only seen it once), but yeah, my gut instinct is to agree with you. TDK is fantastic, but BB is...well...”only” pretty good.

 

[Awest66]

What about the bizarre stock exchange robbery?

There was no actual robbery, Bane and his men use a program to make it look like certain trades were made months in advance of the actual attack. Fox even said they'd be able to prove fraud in the long-term.

Or magical Clean Slate,

No more "magic" than the microwave emitter or the sonar device.

Or that incredible plane hijack, that can fool only people with IQ 42 or below?

It's almost like it's a movie or something.

Or nobody noticing supposedly dead Bruce Wayne in "broad daylight"?

"Your Bruce Wayne, prince of Gotham, You'd have to walk a thousand miles to find someone that didn't know your name". I'd say where he and Selina end up is close enough to that distance.

Or Batman being mildly annoyed by Kyle's use of guns?

How dare he not take the time to chew her out for saving his life when theres a bomb about to go off? Where are his priorities?

 

[Awest66]

They even repeated the same joke of having Hulk do a comical beat down on the villain.

Exactly.

 

[Pennywise]

This was a really difficult decision, but I think I preferred TDK Trilogy a bit more

Batman Begins> The First Avenger
The Dark Knight> The Winter Soldier
The Dark Knight< Civil War

 

[Hammer!]

Spider-Man 3
Blade Trinity
X-Men: The Last Stand
X-Men: Wolverine Origins
X-Men: Apocalypse
Thor: Dark World
Iron Man 2 or 3 depending on the person

So if TDK's weak link is TKDR and Cap's is TFA, it's much easier to stand tall.

I'm not sure if Avengers can be included because it looks like it's going to be a 4 series movie.

I think GOTG3 would have to be as good if not superior to the original to be able to start comparisons.

Yeah, this. I don’t like Rises because it’s not a good movie for a multitude or reasons, not because I’m trying to knock the series down from a pedestal; the first two are frickin amazing. Just like I don’t like Spider-Man 3 and X-Men due to them being a positively reviewed franchise, but rather I dislike them they’re bad movies.

 

[Hammer!]

This was a really difficult decision, but I think I preferred TDK Trilogy a bit more

Batman Begins> The First Avenger
The Dark Knight> The Winter Soldier
The Dark Knight< Civil War

I vote this way as well, but had to vote Cap. I’d take the first two Nolan films over first two Cap films, but they’re still relatively close while Cap 3 just blows Nolan’s third Bat film completely out of the water.

 

[fan4stic]

And not starved to death.

I'm pretty sure they show Bane's men sending them supplies to live off of as Bane says that police will live as they're taught true justice, likely to maintain his revolution facade.

 

[Awest66]

Yeah, this. I don’t like Rises because it’s not a good movie for a multitude or reasons

Reason's I've no doubt I'd disagree with.

 

[fan4stic]

No, it's pretty much the same. Use the weapon to create mass fear in Gotham and ultimately destroy the city. It's the same plot, and even devolves into a beat the clock chase the weapon finale. Just like BB.

I don't see it that way at all. The movie seems to be more about the villain using a weapon to create a visage of false hope. Fear isn't really represented much by the plan of the villains at all. Also it's not being used to create it really. It's not the people being effected so much as it's the people choosing an effect. There's not really a beat the clock chase in BB either. More like a beat the clock fight. No matter what happened there, the microwave emitter would've been stopped, whether by Gordon blowing out the tracks or Batman stopping the train.

 

[fan4stic]

"Your Bruce Wayne, prince of Gotham, You'd have to walk a thousand miles to find someone that didn't know your name". I'd say where he and Selina end up is close enough to that distance.

Not to mention that it means nothing. What if someone sees him? It'll be like Elvis sightings. Just a shrug off. Not many people would even care. And even if he's caught, what are they gonna do? All Bruce has to is shrug and say he was out of town partying the whole time. No problem at all really.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Batman Begins vs Captain America: The First Avenger
Winner: Batman Begins, easily takes this even though I love both. Both have compelling protagonists and formidable villains, but I thinkBeginshas so much more heart, and I found myself more invested in the supporting cast as well. Despite being placed in a semi realistic world where they are unable to reach their full potential, Ra's and Scarecrow definitely edge out Red Skull.

The Dark Knight vs Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Winner: The Dark Knight, easily again. I don't like TWS as much as most. I think the first and third movies are way better. Bucky and Pierce don't have anything on Joker and Two-Face. I feel like this one needs little explanation. TDK is on another level.

The Dark Knight Rises vs Captain America: Civil War
Winner: Civil War takes this one for me by kind of a lot. I don't have any major issues with CW. It's the best Marvel movie in my opinion. Despite having a far superior iconic villain, Rises has some big issues that are impossible to overlook. Plus, Spider-Man!

 

[Awest66]

Batman Begins vs Captain America: The First Avenger
Winner: Batman Begins, easily takes this even though I love both. Both have compelling protagonists and formidable villains, but I thinkBeginshas so much more heart, and I found myself more invested in the supporting cast as well. Despite being placed in a semi realistic world where they are unable to reach their full potential, Ra's and Scarecrow definitely edge out Red Skull.

The Dark Knight vs Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Winner: The Dark Knight, easily again. I don't like TWS as much as most. I think the first and third movies are way better. Bucky and Pierce don't have anything on Joker and Two-Face. I feel like this one needs little explanation. TDK is on another level.

The Dark Knight Rises vs Captain America: Civil War
Winner: Civil War takes this one for me by kind of a lot. I don't have any major issues with CW. It's the best Marvel movie in my opinion. Despite having a far superior iconic villain, Rises has some big issues that are impossible to overlook. Plus, Spider-Man!

That's fair I suppose.

 

[DACrowe]

Spider-Man 3
Blade Trinity
X-Men: The Last Stand
X-Men: Wolverine Origins
X-Men: Apocalypse
Thor: Dark World
Iron Man 2 or 3 depending on the person

So if TDK's weak link is TKDR and Cap's is TFA, it's much easier to stand tall.

I'm not sure if Avengers can be included because it looks like it's going to be a 4 series movie.

I think GOTG3 would have to be as good if not superior to the original to be able to start comparisons.

I'm not sure that I follow what you're saying here. Yes, Rises is viewed as a weak link by fans (not that I agree). But given its 87% RT score (and I can't confirm this but I recall it being closer to 90% in 2012), 90% audience score, made over a billion dollars, and the fact that it leaked into pop culture with the way Bane became a popular villain and meme... I don't think it really compares to Thor: The Dark World, X-Men: Apocalypse, XMTLS, TFA, etc.



... My point is that all superhero movie's plots (with maybe not Logan's? I haven't really thought about it until just now... ANYWAY) can be picked at the way Rises is, because it is viewed as weaker. But to use TDK as an example: how did the Joker get explosives inside every floor of that 24-hour hospital without anyone noticing?; Gordon faking his death seemed moot as he was never targeted; why are Gordon and Batman aware of Two-Face's body count? etc.

I feel like Rises, while it has its flaws, is put in the hot seat more aggressively than most superhero movies, never mind the ones that don't take themselves as seriously as Nolan.

The last I'll say about it (as it's late and I think I'm rambling) is that all the things its critics claimed Rises was we got a few years later when Zack Snyder tried to make his big important films Man of Steel and Batman v Superman.

 

[OutOfBoose]

There was no actual robbery, Bane and his men use a program to make it look like certain trades were made months in advance of the actual attack. Fox even said they'd be able to prove fraud in the long-term.

Yeah, because it totally needs to be proved, lol. A bunch of armed terrorists mess with stock exchange data, kill people. Proceed as usual. Wayne totally went bankrupt.

No more "magic" than the microwave emitter or the sonar device.

There's difference between unbelievable technology (time travel etc.) and complete lack of common sense. By the way, the emitter is also quite stupid by comic book movie standards.

It's almost like it's a movie or something.

Weak excuse.

"Your Bruce Wayne, prince of Gotham, You'd have to walk a thousand miles to find someone that didn't know your name". I'd say where he and Selina end up is close enough to that distance.

Someone.

How dare he not take the time to chew her out for saving his life when theres a bomb about to go off? Where are his priorities?

There's enough time for a kiss, though. And listening to the rant before the embarrassing death scene of Talia.