Black Panther is a movie with no villains. Discuss

[WBwins]

Killmonger is Hitler-esque with his master race plan to conquer with death. No rational human empathizes with Hitler regardless of their horrible past. Killmonger is 100% a villain.

It was even ironic to see all of Wakanda (except for Lupita) being xenophobic and wanting to keep refugees out. Luckily BP realizes that’s wrong at the end of the movie.

Agreed.Killmonger was a Racist.A murdering Racist.Villain point blank

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'll say that unless you have green hair, a purple suit and a winning smile, nobody's 100% villain, but Killmonger does fit into the villain mode. What makes a good villain great is whether he or she plays a role in the hero's journey, not just serving as an antagonist or conflict source, but through conflict helping to reshape how the hero sees the world and/or him or herself.

 

[eon001]

If the title is true, then I guess it shows that a good movie doesn't necessarily need a villain.

 

[Aximili86]

He's the hero of the movie
He changed the protagonists way of thinking through his rational discourse
He made good character believe in his cause because he was right
He legitamately wanted to help oppressed people whereas the heroes sought to do nothing

If Killmonger was never in the movie Wakanda would still be a 100% isolationist nation

Seek help, man.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

with the backstory he was given, and the cause he stood for they definitely ran the risk of him coming across as too sympathetic/relate-able to really be seen as a true villain but, it was through the performance of the actor, an actions of the character that clearly showed him to have a careless disregard for life, tho, he may have had some good ideas, it was his execution of those idea that was wrong and that he was too driven by his hatred and thirst for revenge to see his version clearly

 

[Holiday]

with the backstory he was given, and the cause he stood for they definitely ran the risk of him coming across as too sympathetic/relate-able to really be seen as a true villain but, it was through the performance of the actor, an actions of the character that clearly showed him to have a careless disregard for life, tho, he may have had some good ideas, it was his execution of those idea that was wrong and that he was too driven by his hatred and thirst for revenge to see his version clearly

This sums it up very well. He killed his own people in effort to achieve his goal, not sure how some could question if he were a villain.

 

[FlareKnight]

Yeah, he's definitely still a villain. You get how he got to that point and where he is coming from. He even has some strong general points. But he was about to start a world wide war and get millions or billions killed in the process. He didn't care what even happened to Wakanda in the process so long as he got his revenge.

In fact I doubt the country even would have escaped his rage even if his plans went perfectly. He doesn't lack a hatred for Wakanda itself when it comes to his father's death or not taking action earlier.

 

[jmc]

It's easy to see where Killmonger is coming from, but his ultimate goal is to burn everything to the ground out of revenge, destroying not only those he sees as the people who have wrong him, but also the very fabric of Wakanda itself. It's a selfish action disguising itself as justice.

The question he poses that is the most interesting is where was Wakanda when all these injustices were going on. Is there are correct answer to that? If a nation chooses neutrality does it make them wrong not to intervene? Was Switzerland wrong to stay out of both World Wars? Did they have a responsibility to side with the Allies? Is it wrong for a nation to look out only for itself? These are difficult questions to definitively answer.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't think the movie even necessarily takes a hard position on a lot of its moral dilemmas. After all, it ultimately portrayed basically all the Wakandan cast as sympathetic, and they advocated positions all over the spectrum. Stepping out into the light and helping the world is certainly T'Challa's position, and portrayed as probably the best decision, but that's not the same as saying all other choices are wrong and evil, and always were even into the past.

Note that the one choice the movie went out of its way to declare as wrong was T'Chaka leaving Erik an orphan out in the world. *That* got condemned, pretty explicitly, and even T'Chaka pretty much accepted "Yeah, I screwed that up". The framing really read to me, though, that T'Challa's changing course from past policy wasn't him morally rejecting the choices of his predecessors. It was that, on realizing his father was not perfect, he felt the confidence to step out from the shadow, and make his own decisions firmly as king.

( Which will probably mean, thematically, that future movies will have him making his own, new and innovative mistakes. *eg* )

 

[Chance Jackson]

Killmonger is definitely a villain willing to subject the entire world to endless civil wars in hopes it leads to a black first world empire controlled by Wakanda someone said this makes him hitler and that is wrong this makes him more like Ganghis Khan, Escandhar, and other "sun never sets on our empire" conquerors all of them villains and purveyors of suffering and death

 

[dougal]

Yes the story was complex and the characters were all well developed. Killmongers last line was bitting and really emphasized the complex nature of the movie.

 

[ouroboros]

You're confusing motivations and methods. His goal is to force Wakanda to use their advanced resources to better the way of life for black people everywhere. That is his motivation. His methods are giving them weapons so they can kill women, children, so on and so forth. While certainly his methods are VERY villainous, his core goal is sympathetic. Further based on his backstory, you can see why he may feel that way, even if clearly we want him to lose and see him as a bad person now.

I agree with this, with the additional point that Killmonger is also using the same methods that were used against third-world nations to supposedly improve their lot. There's much made of the fact that he's a rogue CIA guy; that his method of attacking Wakanda during a transition-period is SOP for the CIA. If you believe that the CIA's governmental meddling is immoral when it's directed against third-world nations, then such meddling doesn't magically become moral because it's supposedly going to work to the benefit of People of Color. Ironically, Killmonger is treating Wakanda just like any white CIA spook treats a third-world country in the real world: as a means to an end. I would have liked to see someone in the film point out that Killmonger was duplicating the methods of the "colonizers;" it would have been enough for one of the Wakandans to call him a "colonizer," the same insult that Shuri casually directs against Ross. It also would've been nice to point out that Killmonger's actions would have huge blowback for Wakanda, and that, if the "war dogs" failed to conquer all-- a decisive possibility in a world with superheroes, though the film tries to put that aside-- then Wakanda would be in deep ****. I did like the fact that Killmonger's shown to be blithely uninterested in Wakanda's culture and people; he's an "Ugly American" who just happens to be black.

 

[Pink Ranger]

What's interesting if Killmonger's plan was to be enacted, what it would mean for other African countries, from Wakanda's immediate neighbours and then spreading outward from there. Considering the differences in culture (Wakanda being completely void of Abrahamic religions, for example) would these other African countries have to be "made pure" in order to fit into Killmonger's world order? Sobering thing to think about.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What's interesting if Killmonger's plan was to be enacted, what it would mean for other African countries, from Wakanda's immediate neighbours and then spreading outward from there. Considering the differences in culture (Wakanda being completely void of Abrahamic religions, for example) would these other African countries have to be "made pure" in order to fit into Killmonger's world order? Sobering thing to think about.

I have been thinking about this since seeing the movie. Kilmonger's plan would not just be affecting places with African descendants that are in a minority of the population but also places where those people are oppressed by their own. There are many authoritarian or corrupt regimes led by Africans. And yes, Wakanda would be an alien "other" realistically speaking to many Africans, skin color not withstanding.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I have been thinking about this since seeing the movie. Kilmonger's plan would not just be affecting places with African descendants that are in a minority of the population but also places where those people are oppressed by their own. There are many authoritarian or corrupt regimes led by Africans. And yes, Wakanda would be an alien "other" realistically speaking to many Africans, skin color not withstanding.

Imagine Killmonger with Wakandan technology reasoning that he first has to "civilize" the rest of the continent.