The Dark Knight BOF Report 4/17

[Two-Face]

You forgot Sin City Socko.

 

[The Fallen]

That's just not even true. Out of the comic movies since 2000 I put it in a close 6th behind Begins, the 2 Spideys and the 2 X-Mens. It was way better than Daredevil ever even tried to be. (I'm not even going to mention Elektra or the travesty that was F4...somehow they got a franchise out of that) and if you ask me Hulk was way better than the old Superman movies.

Different strokes for different folks. I just feel that they droped the ball with Hulk as it is one for Marvels big characters and the movie wasn't as big as it could have been.

Anywho here are my fave comic book movie in order. This is my opinion,

Batman Begins
Superman: The Movie
Batman '89
Superman II
X-Men 2
Spider-Man
Batman Forever
X-Men
Sin City
V For Ventetta
The Punisher
Spider-Man 2
Batman Returns
Constantine
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace
Hulk
Batman & Robin
Superman III

I haven't seen Daredevil, F4, Electra so I can't judge.

 

[Two-Face]

EDIT I see it.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Different strokes for different folks. I just feel that they droped the ball with Hulk as it is one for Marvels big characters and the movie wasn't as big as it could have been.

Anywho here are my fave comic book movie in order. This is my opinion,

Batman Begins
Superman: The Movie
Batman '89
Superman II
X-Men 2
Spider-Man
Batman Forever
X-Men
Sin City
V For Ventetta
The Punisher
Spider-Man 2
Batman Returns
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace
Hulk
Batman & Robin
Superman III

I haven't seen Daredevil, F4, Electra so I can't judge.

I can't believe you think Hulk is so bad!

I forgot about Sin City and V for Vendetta. They aren't exactly superhero films. I've only seen each once and I don't know how I'd feel upon watch them again. I really did like them, but they got over-loved, which created in me a feeling of animostity towards them.

 

[ultimatefan]

I found Bana/Lee's Banner very relatable. I never watched Incredible Hulk the show religously, When I see it I enjoy it but I never found "David" Banner all that interesting. I did like that he was kind of a drifter, though. And you can tell from the ending that if there had been a sequel to Lee's Hulk they would have incorporated that element.

Also notice I also said "close" 6th place. Depending on my mood I would often prefer to watch Hulk over X-Men or Spidey at times.

PS. The DD director's cut is way overhyped and not even that good. It is better than the TC, but adds very little to the story/character development.

On the pilot, I think Bixby´s Banner is very relatable, he´s more sympathetic than Bana´s Banner and seems much more genuinely concerned with Hulk´s potential damage, even though it´s a phyisically weaker version of the monster. Bana´s Banner seems to me much more attracted to being a monster than scared of it.

Well, to me the director´s cut adds a lot to the story, it emphasizes that Matt is someone who fights for the little guy, for the unprotected of Hell´s Kitchen, and we see his "blind detective" skills a lot more. Not to mention the murder subplot covers the biggest holes the plot had in the TC, especially Kingpin´s arrest.

 

[KALEL114]

I hope they aren't talking about Seymor Hoffman. Penguin yes, Joker no.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Different strokes for different folks. I just feel that they droped the ball with Hulk as it is one for Marvels big characters and the movie wasn't as big as it could have been.

Anywho here are my fave comic book movie in order. This is my opinion,

Batman Begins
Superman: The Movie
Batman '89
Superman II
X-Men 2
Spider-Man
Batman Forever
X-Men
Sin City
V For Ventetta
The Punisher
Spider-Man 2
Batman Returns
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace
Hulk
Batman & Robin
Superman III

I haven't seen Daredevil, F4, Electra so I can't judge.

You have yet to see Constantine

 

[ToddIsDead]

Constantine was really good. I'd put it in my top ten favorite comic book movies. It probably would have been cooler if it stuck to the comics some more though.

 

[DV8]

so . . . . . do you guys think that if this is all true, that it's possibly Brad Dourif who's the new Joker contender? After all, he's very menacing, not a huge name; and a very experienced character actor . . . I don't think that's too bad a choice . . .

 

[The-Night]

so . . . . . do you guys think that if this is all true, that it's possibly Brad Dourif who's the new Joker contender? After all, he's very menacing, not a huge name; and a very experienced character actor . . . I don't think that's too bad a choice . . .

I think he's too old for the younger Joker that Nolan is looking for. I mean Batman and Joker pretty much started being who they are wround the same time, didn't they?

 

[DV8]

yeah . . . . that's the ONE major drawback . . . he's like 50 or something . . .

 

[The-Night]

yeah . . . . that's the ONE major drawback . . . he's like 50 or something . . .

well hopefully Bettany is not out of the race.....yet. I mean jjst the thught all the new threads saying "Gyllenhaal looks more liek the joker than HULME, he should get it" will make me vomit all over my nice ivy leauge suit!!1

 

[DV8]

oh god!!! I know . . . Gyllenhall CANNOT be Joker!!!!

 

[The-Night]

oh god!!! I know . . . Gyllenhall CANNOT be Joker!!!!

He won't...........but I must admit he would make an awesome Black Mask!!

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Gylenhall deserves to be in the Batman franchise in some sort of shape or form

 

[The Fallen]

You have yet to see Constantine

Yeah I have actually, forgot about that one. It was good, not great.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Different strokes for different folks. I just feel that they droped the ball with Hulk as it is one for Marvels big characters and the movie wasn't as big as it could have been.

Anywho here are my fave comic book movie in order. This is my opinion,

Batman Begins
Superman: The Movie
Batman '89
Superman II
X-Men 2
Spider-Man
Batman Forever
X-Men
Sin City
V For Ventetta
The Punisher
Spider-Man 2
Batman Returns
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace
Hulk
Batman & Robin
Superman III

I haven't seen Daredevil, F4, Electra so I can't judge.

Wow, that's weird. See, my favorite comic movies look much different.

1.Batman Begins
2.Spider-Man
3.Spider-Man 2
4.Hulk
5.Hellboy
6.Sin City
7.Punisher (Tom Jane version)
8.X2: X-Men United
9.X-Men
10.Superman: The Movie

That's my top ten. If I list any others I'd be listing ones that don't mean anything to me, really, except, in some instances, for nostalgia's sake.

On the issue of finding Banner relatable - the idea is that Banner is a man who grew up with an abusive father and that's where his deep-set, repressed anger comes from. This is an angle that Peter David wrote for the character back in the early 90's, and, frankly, I think it's the most dramatic tact to take with the character.

If you don't find that relatable, you just haven't lived enough yet.

 

[The Fallen]

Wow, that's weird. See, my favorite comic movies look much different.

1.Batman Begins
2.Spider-Man
3.Spider-Man 2
4.Hulk
5.Hellboy
6.Sin City
7.Punisher (Tom Jane version)
8.X2: X-Men United
9.X-Men
10.Superman: The Movie

That's my top ten. If I list any others I'd be listing ones that don't mean anything to me, really, except, in some instances, for nostalgia's sake.

On the issue of finding Banner relatable - the idea is that Banner is a man who grew up with an abusive father and that's where his deep-set, repressed anger comes from. This is an angle that Peter David wrote for the character back in the early 90's, and, frankly, I think it's the most dramatic tact to take with the character.

If you don't find that relatable, you just haven't lived enough yet.

It's not that I don't find it relatable, it's just that I'd not a big Hulk person and have never gotten into the character. I'm not saying Hulk is a bad movie, it just that I expected it to be more 'Spider-Man like' in is aproch, and got a more psychological and emotionally driven movie. It just goes to show that I don't know jack about Hulk! I best stick to my DC stuff....

 

[Ronny Shade]

YES! Keyser likes Hulk! I feel validated.

He does, however, like The Punisher better than X-2 . Weirdo.

As for the TV show, I should like to watch more of it, I've never really gotten a chance and I haven't seen the pilot. As for the movie, the fact that he likes the power is part of--to me--what makes Lee/Bana's Banner interesting. I mean he's this guy who's scared of his normal life, but then he gets this power and...who wouldn't enjoy that a little bit, even in a guilty kind of way? My favorite scene is after he defeats the dogs and then almost kills Betty. That was so terrifically acted.

As for what The Fallen said, I think that's why it did poorly. People wanted to see an action movie and they wanted the TV show. They thought to themselves "The Director of Crouching Tiger?? must be completely action based" and they totally forgot that Crouching Tiger was a very character driven film.


and godDAMMit. I gotta think more clearly when I say Hulk was my #6 comic movie. Cuz I keep forgetting about all these other movies. (I really liked Constantine and Hellboy, but I don't know if better than Hulk) And I might even like Hulk better than one of the Spideys. I'll work it out and get back to y'all.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

YES! Keyser likes Hulk! I feel validated.

It's one of the best comics movies out there, IMO.

He does, however, like The Punisher better than X-2 . Weirdo.

Well, I LOVE X2... but between a movie about misunderstood people, and a movie about an angry man who shoots people... the guy shooting people wins out every time. Punisher is one of those movies that people misunderstand... it's about a dirty rotten bastard who kills people who do bad things. I love that kind of anti-hero. It's an oldschool, low-tech 80's style action movie, and, dammit, it SHOULD be.

The difference between Punisher and Kill Bill is that Tarantino pussed out and got all preachy and moralizing at the end of Kill Bill, which totally ruined the movie. I can draw my own conclusions based on the gratuitous violence. Just let her chop Bill's #@&*in' head off and be done with it. Make sure the blood fills the whole room.

As for the TV show, I should like to watch more of it, I've never really gotten a chance and I haven't seen the pilot. As for the movie, the fact that he likes the power is part of--to me--what makes Lee/Bana's Banner interesting. I mean he's this guy who's scared of his normal life, but then he gets this power and...who wouldn't enjoy that a little bit, even in a guilty kind of way? My favorite scene is after he defeats the dogs and then almost kills Betty. That was so terrifically acted.

I agree. It was a great movie. I used to love that old TV show, too, but luckily I got acquainted with the comics between then and the movie, so I knew what to expect. It's part Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, part King Kong. And dammit, that's awesome.

As for what The Fallen said, I think that's why it did poorly. People wanted to see an action movie and they wanted the TV show. They thought to themselves "The Director of Crouching Tiger?? must be completely action based" and they totally forgot that Crouching Tiger was a very character driven film.

See, that's what I've said all along. Marvel screwed up by promoting the movie as a big Spider-Man superhero flick, and it's not, because Hulk's not a superhero. Hulk's a monster with heart. That's IT. It IS a psychological study because it's about the nature of anger, and violence, and power. It's about what happens when a pure emotion gets a physical manifestation. The Hulk is not driven by anger: the Hulk IS anger. He's a brutal, primal emotion that can do terrible things, but can also drive a person to do heroic things at need. Lee got that, and he made a beautiful movie.

Plus, Nick Nolte OWNS YOUR ash.

and godDAMMit. I gotta think more clearly when I say Hulk was my #6 comic movie. Cuz I keep forgetting about all these other movies. (I really liked Constantine and Hellboy, but I don't know if better than Hulk) And I might even like Hulk better than one of the Spideys. I'll work it out and get back to y'all.

Word.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Well, I LOVE X2... but between a movie about misunderstood people, and a movie about an angry man who shoots people... the guy shooting people wins out every time. Punisher is one of those movies that people misunderstand... it's about a dirty rotten bastard who kills people who do bad things. I love that kind of anti-hero. It's an oldschool, low-tech 80's style action movie, and, dammit, it SHOULD be.

But...but...he didn't kill enough people! He let them kill each other. While parts of this movie were spectacular (the firehydrant in the gym bag, torturing the guy with a popsicle, the gravestone on the golfcourse, the knife through the guy's teeth) I really wanted Castle to be brutally killing more people and trying to justify it. You can go so far with the idea that Frank is really kind of a bad bad man, and he's trying to be bad in a constructive way.

I agree. It was a great movie. I used to love that old TV show, too, but luckily I got acquainted with the comics between then and the movie, so I knew what to expect. It's part Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, part King Kong. And dammit, that's awesome.

See, that's what I've said all along. Marvel screwed up by promoting the movie as a big Spider-Man superhero flick, and it's not, because Hulk's not a superhero. Hulk's a monster with heart. That's IT. It IS a psychological study because it's about the nature of anger, and violence, and power. It's about what happens when a pure emotion gets a physical manifestation. The Hulk is not driven by anger: the Hulk IS anger. He's a brutal, primal emotion that can do terrible things, but can also drive a person to do heroic things at need. Lee got that, and he made a beautiful movie.

Total agreenatude

 

[The Fallen]

On the topic sorta, I've felt for the longest time that I'm the only one who thought the first Spider-Man was better than the second, everyone else I know seems to think that the second is better! Why? I'm glad to see I'm not alone Sushi!

 

[Keyser Sushi]

On the topic sorta, I've felt for the longest time that I'm the only one who thought the first Spider-Man was better than the second, everyone else I know seems to think that the second is better! Why? I'm glad to see I'm not alone Sushi!

Yeah, I mean, I like the second one, but, it's really a sequel to the first one in every respect, and while it builds on the story, I think it's almost meaningless without the first one, so they have to go in order on the list. Whereas with the X-Men movies, X2 is so far above and beyond its predecessor that I HAD to flip the order.

But...but...he didn't kill enough people! He let them kill each other. While parts of this movie were spectacular (the firehydrant in the gym bag, torturing the guy with a popsicle, the gravestone on the golfcourse, the knife through the guy's teeth) I really wanted Castle to be brutally killing more people and trying to justify it. You can go so far with the idea that Frank is really kind of a bad bad man, and he's trying to be bad in a constructive way.

True, true. The thing is, it really was an origin story, and the way I read it, he didn't really become THE PUNISHER until the end of the movie... I like that they took him to the point of contemplating suicide after he'd squared his beef, but instead he chose to go on and be the guy who carves up criminals wherever he finds them. That to me is the breakthrough for him. He had to get the personal stuff out of the way and now he's just... on a mission.

When they make the sequel, I expect it to be more what you'd expect. The thing is, I don't think Frank has to try to justify what he does. I think the story justifies it as far as is possible, for the character. We know why he does what he does, and it's hard to blame him, even if he's a dirty rotten bastard. It's like a Clint Eastwood character, in that regard.

But having him trying to justify it, as you put it, is one way to handle the necessary thing in the sequel: the audience has to continue to be on Frank's side, no matter what he does. That requires that he retain some measure of humanity, and, therefore, conscience.

 

[The Fallen]

Yeah, I mean, I like the second one, but, it's really a sequel to the first one in every respect, and while it builds on the story, I think it's almost meaningless without the first one, so they have to go in order on the list. Whereas with the X-Men movies, X2 is so far above and beyond its predecessor that I HAD to flip the order.



True, true. The thing is, it really was an origin story, and the way I read it, he didn't really become THE PUNISHER until the end of the movie... I like that they took him to the point of contemplating suicide after he'd squared his beef, but instead he chose to go on and be the guy who carves up criminals wherever he finds them. That to me is the breakthrough for him. He had to get the personal stuff out of the way and now he's just... on a mission.

When they make the sequel, I expect it to be more what you'd expect. The thing is, I don't think Frank has to try to justify what he does. I think the story justifies it as far as is possible, for the character. We know why he does what he does, and it's hard to blame him, even if he's a dirty rotten bastard. It's like a Clint Eastwood character, in that regard.

But having him trying to justify it, as you put it, is one way to handle the necessary thing in the sequel: the audience has to continue to be on Frank's side, no matter what he does. That requires that he retain some measure of humanity, and, therefore, conscience.

I 100% agree with you on The Punisher. He's a down and dirty ash-kicker. I also love the 80's retro action movie feel on the film too. I loves me some 80's action!

 

[Ronny Shade]

I haven't seen that 80s one. Heard terrible things but I still wanna see it.

And Keyser, I think if they made a Punisher sequel it would pwn. Especially if he moves to NY. And I think that you need some sort of internal conflict to have a good flick. Thats why I said all the justification stuff, but you understood that.