Bone claws!?

[Congo Jack]

I thought Thomas was Howlett. Thomas Howlett. Are you sure Logan's first name was Thomas too?

It's John Howlett and Thomas Logan. I think the grandfather and James' deceased brother were also called John.

 

[various121]

I beleive Stryker said in X-Men 2 something along the lines of "You were an animal then and you are an animal now. I just gave you claws". And Thomas Logan was the name of James' father in Wolverine's so-called Origin; and where was it shown he had bone claws?

It's not his "so-called" origin, it's his origin story in the Marvel Universe. This origin isn't out of contunity.

Where was it show he had bone claws? I'm assuming you mean Thomas. It's isn't shown, but on page 4 of Part II of the story (Inner Child) Elizabeth Howlett is show, very clearly, with scars on her body (the left side of her torso) that match up exactly to what Wolverines claws would do. It is inferred throughout the entire book that Elizabeth Howlett and Thomas Logan had an affair and that James Howlett was the outcome, and that after the affair Elizabeth became a recluse (not even becoming intimate with her husband John Howlett anymore) so put two and two together, those scars were left by Thomas. The way the scars are lined up, it would seem like they came out involuntarily during a moment of ecstasy while Elizabeth was on top of Thomas and his hands were on her sides. I say involuntarily because it would seem that Thomas can't control them (inferred by him having to use a shotgun to exact his "revenge" on the Howlett family and not using his natural claws).

Now, if you mean where was it show that James Howlett aka Wolverine has bone claws, the last page of Part II very clearly shows the bone claws protruding from the hands of a young James.

 

[Savage]

Thomas wasn't the one with claws. I thought it was obvious that James' brother had claws and was killed. That's why his mom is all "Not again" when James has them as well and she freaks out so badly. In fact this loose end of his brother was covered in "Wolverine: The End" (the "The End" books are not in continuity though. Just a look at the possible demise of these characters.).

 

[Congo Jack]

This origin isn't out of contunity.

Is to me!

+ + +

Savage said everything I could have about the 'owner' of those claw marks on momma Howlett.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

It's not his "so-called" origin, it's his origin story in the Marvel Universe.

ok ... so is barry windsor smith's weapon x story.

so, which one is the real one ?

because the origin storyline is recent it has more weight?

bone claws might have a more realistic feel but at the end of the day it's a comic character. one that has its continuity messed up by its publisher...

weapon x storyline came 1st in marvel comics presents. the editors seemed to have forgotten it.

i haven't.

 

[Savage]

They're both in continuity. Read Weapon X again. It never denied the existence of bone claws.

And if you even try to tell me that Weapon X inserted the claws into him then you better race to that book even faster.

 

[various121]

Thomas wasn't the one with claws. I thought it was obvious that James' brother had claws and was killed. That's why his mom is all "Not again" when James has them as well and she freaks out so badly. In fact this loose end of his brother was covered in "Wolverine: The End" (the "The End" books are not in continuity though. Just a look at the possible demise of these characters.).

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, never even thought about that (never read The End). What's the prevailing theory then, that mama Howlett is the one with the gene that has the bone claws and it doens't matter who the father of the children are?

Is to me!

Lol, fair enough.

 

[Savage]

That's the theory, yeah. It's all the mom. All Thomas gave 'im was his looks.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

better race to that book even faster.

and read what exactly ?

not denying and not acknowledging are too different things, no?

how about it wasn't presented in the storyline because it was a bunk idea then as it is now.

kidding. kinda...

Windsor Smith's story doesn't have any mention of bone claws. and not until Marvel ran out of ideas on how to sell the Wolvie comic did they put bone claws into the story line. look how many books, threads have come from it... great for sales.

 

[Savage]

The thing I noticed with Weapon X though was that the claws were not intentional. All of a sudden massive amounts of adamantium was being drained and sent to his forearms and they needed to go into their reserves to keep up with it. So either Windsor Smith was already establishing the idea that there could have been claws in there already or he was saying that it was some kind of accident that these perfectly symmetrical claws formed in his forearms (which is...actually completely ridiculous). Unfortunately I think he was going for the latter so I'm glad someone came up with the bone claws to fill up that...weird impossibility.

 

[Legion]

Windsor Smith does leave the origin of the claws ambiguous, probably so that it can be further explored later by other writers. Weapon X's focus is mostly on Logan's experiences there.

Note that during the adamantium procedure the Professor and the others have no idea what's going on and the Professor is answering to a higher authority who seemed to already know Logan was a mutant and he was holding back information.

Like I said in a old post a while ago, Wolverine was first written as wearing adamantium gloves with retractable claws. An episode of the animated series also shows Logan wielding a pair of adamantium claws before Weapon X.

In the Shiva scenario The Professor explained that adamantium was expensive and they were on a strict budget. Since Logan was a guinea pig the reserve adamantium could have been a pair of gloves w/ claws, after all the original shape shouldn't matter since the metal is suppose to bond on the molecular lvl.

So since the scientists didn't have their information straight things didn't go as planned.

In the movies though, this theory doesn't matter as much because they are using to liquid adamantium to coat the bones instead of magnetic bonding. But there's still no reason that they couldn't forge the claws and insert them.

 

[Congo Jack]

The thing I noticed with Weapon X though was that the claws were not intentional. All of a sudden massive amounts of adamantium was being drained and sent to his forearms and they needed to go into their reserves to keep up with it. So either Windsor Smith was already establishing the idea that there could have been claws in there already or he was saying that it was some kind of accident that these perfectly symmetrical claws formed in his forearms (which is...actually completely ridiculous). Unfortunately I think he was going for the latter so I'm glad someone came up with the bone claws to fill up that...weird impossibility.

The claws were definately intentional. Let me present the exact dialogue from Windsor-Smith's work of genius and my own thoughts on the subject.

"There's excess adamantium drain to the minima... flexo...
Hands and wrists - We can't account for it and we're unable to stop it."

You'll notice in Weapon X that the adamantium being pumped onto Logan's bones is controlled by the scientists - 'feed' signals the release of adamantium to be coated to the bone. Therefore they should have been able halt the flow of adamantium, but they weren't. The key line is "we're unable to stop it".

The hands and wrists are clearly NOT demanding more adamantium - it's flow was simply being controlled by someone else (until recently, most evidence seemed to suggest Apocalypse - and I refuse to aknowledge Romulus - ugh), and that 'director' was pumping more adamantium into that area, forging the man into a living weapon.

The scientists didn't have the slightest clue what was really going on with Logan. Heck, even the professor didn't know he was a mutant until after Logan had been abducted.

 

[x-fan]

i like the idea that styker was lying to logan when he said i just gave you the claws, and that he volunteered, they need to keep it as an abduction, shoot i wish they just made it weapon x and didnt go anywhere else the whole movie about logan being abducted and the process , and ending in his escape . but thats just me i guess

 

[Savage]

The claws were definately intentional. Let me present the exact dialogue from Windsor-Smith's work of genius and my own thoughts on the subject.

"There's excess adamantium drain to the minima... flexo...
Hands and wrists - We can't account for it and we're unable to stop it."

You'll notice in Weapon X that the adamantium being pumped onto Logan's bones is controlled by the scientists - 'feed' signals the release of adamantium to be coated to the bone. Therefore they should have been able halt the flow of adamantium, but they weren't. The key line is "we're unable to stop it".

The hands and wrists are clearly NOT demanding more adamantium - it's flow was simply being controlled by someone else (until recently, most evidence seemed to suggest Apocalypse - and I refuse to aknowledge Romulus - ugh), and that 'director' was pumping more adamantium into that area, forging the man into a living weapon.

The scientists didn't have the slightest clue what was really going on with Logan. Heck, even the professor didn't know he was a mutant until after Logan had been abducted.

So you're saying that someone else was responsible for the claws being inserted into Logan (well was implied by Smith anyway)? I don't know. I still find it hard to believe that excess adamantium somehow forms claws. The bones made sense because they were coated but this is something else. This would require a different/separate process unless there were in fact bone claws before. It's why I prefer the bone claw explanation.

 

[Congo Jack]

i wish they just made it weapon x and didnt go anywhere else the whole movie about logan being abducted and the process , and ending in his escape . but thats just me i guess

I don't think it would work. Weapon X works so well because it is in comic book format; you can take your time with it and examine each panel and see the work that was put into it, much like Watchmen. Those amazing subtle little tidbits such as Weapon X's papers about Logan and that Dr. Cornelius is a wanted criminal.

Also, from Fox's point of view, there's no way Weapon X could be made as a PG-13 and a (3 hour?) movie about a guy being tortured and experimented on won't be profitable. I think it's just too hard to be adapted properly.

 

[Congo Jack]

So you're saying that someone else was responsible for the claws being inserted into Logan (well was implied by Smith anyway)?

I'd say it is more than just implied, but yes.

I still find it hard to believe that excess adamantium somehow forms claws.

I honestly can't see how. Metal being moulded into claws is hardly out of the realm of possibility. But it wasn't coincidence that they just turned out looking like knives/claws, they were indeed moulded that way.

sigh...least they woulda been...stupid bone-claws revelation...

 

[x-fan]

I don't think it would work. Weapon X works so well because it is in comic book format; you can take your time with it and examine each panel and see the work that was put into it, much like Watchmen. Those amazing subtle little tidbits such as Weapon X's papers about Logan and that Dr. Cornelius is a wanted criminal.

Also, from Fox's point of view, there's no way Weapon X could be made as a PG-13 and a (3 hour?) movie about a guy being tortured and experimented on won't be profitable. I think it's just too hard to be adapted properly.

actually there is a novel written by marc cerasini, it's called wolverine : weapon x it can be done and they could film without the blood, just like they did the x-men movies, just show the violence and maybe add the blood to the uncut directors release, thats me dreaming

 

[Infinity9999x]

Hey, like I said, I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert on this.

I care more about the story and am willing to suspend my disbelief over the claws because I think the Logan's story is better with them as articficial. And yeah I think they're more plausible as well. Others may disagree, and that's fine by me, but I think they're wrong.

I don't understand how anyone could have thought the artificial claws were more plausible with the explanation that was given in the comics.

In the Weapon X story, they were specifically stated to be a mistake, a side effect. So that means that they didn't put any kind of micro-tech into Logan's arms to operate the claws. Somehow metal claws formed and somehow he could operate them, even though he didn't have any of the necessary muscles to do so, or have any scientists implant technology into his arm that allowed him to do so.

That is much more unrealistic then just saying the bone claws are part of his mutation.

The claws were definately intentional. Let me present the exact dialogue from Windsor-Smith's work of genius and my own thoughts on the subject.

"There's excess adamantium drain to the minima... flexo...
Hands and wrists - We can't account for it and we're unable to stop it."

You'll notice in Weapon X that the adamantium being pumped onto Logan's bones is controlled by the scientists - 'feed' signals the release of adamantium to be coated to the bone. Therefore they should have been able halt the flow of adamantium, but they weren't. The key line is "we're unable to stop it".

The hands and wrists are clearly NOT demanding more adamantium - it's flow was simply being controlled by someone else (until recently, most evidence seemed to suggest Apocalypse - and I refuse to aknowledge Romulus - ugh), and that 'director' was pumping more adamantium into that area, forging the man into a living weapon.

The scientists didn't have the slightest clue what was really going on with Logan. Heck, even the professor didn't know he was a mutant until after Logan had been abducted.

That's all speculation, as far as we all know at this point, the claws were a mistake, which is a poor explanation of them. Not only that, you'd need much more then excess adamantium to allow the claws to work. You'd have to have complicated nano-technology inserted into his forearms and most likely connecting to his brain to allow him to work the claws using only thought.

 

[Congo Jack]

I don't know what BWS intended, but I do know he was smart enough to not make his intentions blatantly obvious. I do think the bone claw theory began with Weapon X, and I think it should have ended there - that way fans could have decided what they wanted themselves.

You'd have to have complicated nano-technology inserted into his forearms and most likely connecting to his brain to allow him to work the claws using only thought.

How much of a stretch is that in a world where time travel is an everyday occurance?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I don't know what BWS intended, but I do know he was smart enough to not make his intentions blatantly obvious. I do think the bone claw theory began with Weapon X, and I think it should have ended there - that way fans could have decided what they wanted themselves.


How much of a stretch is that in a world where time travel is an everyday occurance?

Admittedly not much of a stretch, but I think bone claws would be much easier for the general audience to understand. The movies have already established that there are mutants in the world, and to them it wouldn't seem unusual that Wolverine's claws are bone. I think that the movie producers are probably leaning this way anyways, just from the script review, and from past movies. They could have introduced the idea of advanced cyber-technology with Lady Deathstrike, but instead they choose to make her just another mutant with metal over her bones like Wolverine.

 

[danoyse]

actually there is a novel written by marc cerasini, it's called wolverine : weapon x it can be done and they could film without the blood, just like they did the x-men movies, just show the violence and maybe add the blood to the uncut directors release, thats me dreaming

I've read that novel, and it's still extremely graphic to be toned down to a PG-13 movie.

The other problem with adapting that novel alone is that you really don't have Logan as a character...he's catatonic for most of the book, except for the flashback sequences, which basically end the same way the Weapon X story ends, with Logan going nuts and killing everyone. A movie needs to be more story than that.

There's another novel out called Lifeblood, which flashes back to WWII, and in that you see Logan using his bone claws several times.

 

[x-fan]

I've read that novel, and it's still extremely graphic to be toned down to a PG-13 movie.

The other problem with adapting that novel alone is that you really don't have Logan as a character...he's catatonic for most of the book, except for the flashback sequences, which basically end the same way the Weapon X story ends, with Logan going nuts and killing everyone. A movie needs to be more story than that.

There's another novel out called Lifeblood, which flashes back to WWII, and in that you see Logan using his bone claws several times.

well that would make most people that complained that he had to much screen time in the x-movies, and you just dont film the gore, the violence yes just like in all the x-movies, kill , but no blood, plus as the name suggests its weapon x so its about the project not solely wolverine, it would make an excellent movie plus i love the science of the story really lets you know why he is the best there is at what he does. but so that we are on topic the books say his claws are bone so they should be

 

[Antrax255]

Wolverinee always had bone claws it was part of his mutation it was revealed when he had the adamantium removed

 

[Obi-Ron]

In other words, they made it up when his adamantium was removed.

 

[BMM]

Bingo.