Bought/Thought 1/26/11

[hippie_hunter]

Still would rather pay $2.99.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Still would rather pay $2.99.

I'm sure that's what DC is hoping for. They are actually making more money from us suckers per page. It's like the food companies that proclaim, "Still only ____," yet, they've DRASTICALLY reduced the size of whatever food it is, like candy bars. It's like going out with a gal who only will give you a tug, when before you were getting everything else!

Oz the Magnificient is still working his magic.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Onto the other subject: DC being praised for their cheaper comics. Can the praise just end already? I feel like I'm being majorly ripped off!!!

DC gives us 20 pages of material. (Didn't comics used to be about 22 pages before?) That's 15 cents per page. Let's compare that to Marvel!

Marvel, at their worst, charges readers $3.99 for 32 pages of material. That's still cheaper than DC, coming in at 12 1/2 cents per page!!! Since Marvel wanted to compete with DC and lower some of it's comic prices, a $2.99 comic at 32 pages is 9 1/3 cent per page. NOW, quite a few $3.99 comics by Marvel are 40 pages long, which comes to about 10 cents a page.

Look at that!!! DC is ripping us all off!!!! The few DC books I've been reading are over pretty darn fast, and I feel as if things are either being rushed or I'm not getting much story. (I just read Teen Titans conclusion to their first storyline with Damien; and, except for the brief scenes with him in it, the book is pretty darn worthless.)

I'm real sorry I jumped on the "Marvel be damned for not lowering your prices more" bandwagon; because the alternative that DC offers is much, much worse. AND, more costly to YOU!

You are correct, 2 pages were lost in the price cut. Now, the average for a DC published book is 20 pages of story, as opposed to 22. There was some eyebrow raised about it before hand. However, I find it strange that you keep referring to Marvel as having 32 pages of material, when they've always had 22 pages of story, as well, just like DC. The difference is there, but not to the extent that you should be breezing through DC's comics any faster than you were before. Though, many writers didn't know about the page cut until we did, which lead to some rewrites (Jason Aaron shed some light on that in his CBR column), so some clunkiness could have come from that, but I know in the DC books I've read, it doesn't seem it has.

Also, just as a subscript to that, I'm not 100%, but from what I can tell in solicitations the vast majority of Marvel's $3.99 comics are still 32 pages (22 pages of story) like usual. Outside a couple of exceptions, almost every ongoing and mini they price at that point isn't oversized. The page cut is definitely something to look at from DC, but Marvel's still price gouging like a son of a *****.

- Because Marvel and DC are 70% of the direct market, they have too much invested in it and won't do anything competent or reasonable to undercut it with digital sales, thus stifling the potential.

True. And also, something to consider, it's not quite as profitable over print as many seem to think. Mark Millar gave an interview talking about some of the lesser known hidden fees of digital distribution.

I think digital distribution will still be important in the future but have doubts it'll be the savior of the market like some seem to believe. Maybe that's just my cynic side talking, but I don't see comics booming to amazing heights again just because they go digital.

And apparently DC is following suit. Last week it was revealed they are trimming their trade department budget and are taking many trades out of print and canceling publishing others.

Where did you hear this? DC would have to just stop publishing trades to get any crappier than they are now

 

[Phaedrus45]

Son of a #^%@!!! You're right! When I saw Marvel advertising 32-pages and 40-pages, I didn't imagine they would be adding in the dang ADS!!!

Forget about all the praise I just gave them. They all suck! I've just been tugged, too! (That's like going to a restaurant, ordering a 16 oz. prime rib, and when it comes to the table, a good 1/3 of it is fat!)

Ok...so that means that DC is 15 cents a page. Marvel is about 18 cents for a (cough, cough) 32 page book, which is actually 22 pages, and for a 40-page book, which is really 30, comes to about 13 cents.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Son of a #^%@!!! You're right! When I saw Marvel advertising 32-pages and 40-pages, I didn't imagine they would be adding in the dang ADS!!!

Forget about all the praise I just gave them. They all suck! I've just been tugged, too! (That's like going to a restaurant, ordering a 16 oz. prime rib, and when it comes to the table, a good 1/3 of it is fat!)

Ok...so that means that DC is 15 cents a page. Marvel is about 18 cents for a (cough, cough) 32 page book, which is actually 22 pages, and for a 40-page book, which is really 30, comes to about 13 cents.

Yeah. Though, don't worry, you weren't the only one with raised brows at that page cut. I actually started a thread about in the DC boards based on Jason Aaron's article about the pros and cons of it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm willing to take the two less pages for $2.99. Plain and simple.

 

[Tron Bonne]

You said that already, aquabro

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm in the same boat. I read the comic for the story, not the page count. If I can get just as much enjoyment out of a 20 page comic as a 22 page comic for a dollar less then I'm happy as can be.

 

[Tron Bonne]

It's preferable and something I generally support, but it's unwise to dismiss the latter outright, otherwise you're just getting ripped off in another way if you're too laissez-faire.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Tron Bonne uses big confusing words


And just an FYI... while Geocaching we found 2 out of 5 caches we were searching for. I think 3 were snow covered but the other two were pretty cool. There were only two of us and we each found one so now we're stoked and can't wait to do it agian. I might see if he wants to give it another try tomorrow in a different part of town.

We found one in a black magnetic key holder attached to the bottom of a bench off of a main road (that's the one I found) and he found another one that was a film canister with a magnet inside attached to the back of a plaque of a historic district of our town.

We left our team signatures for the "Kuni Clan" (our old prank group name named after Kuni from UHF) and in one of them (the plaque one) we left a little calling card for anyone who would like to take it as a geo souvinere.

 

[Dread]

Yeah, but Dr. Faustus really doesn't convince Bucky to break out; he just provides him with the means to do it. And, the story is just so damn predictable, that even before Bucky gets into the police van, we KNOW he's going to do it.

Even bigger, Bucky is saying, "I don't trust Steve Rogers to save the day without me," EVEN THOUGH Steve has been doing that very same thing for years and years. (Plus, it's an obvious set up. Barnes is a complete idiot for a) not trusting his mentor, b) being obviously manipulated by Sin and the other bad guys, and c) not caring about all the people who have been working so hard to get him out of the trouble he's gotten himself into. Sheesh, he's already shown bad judgement in the whole Baron Zemo fiasco; now, he's doing it again. This dude was better at being the Winter Soldier than going back to being Bucky.

To be honest, Brubaker's strength as a writer isn't usually by being unpredictable, it is by executing well. I've rarely been surprised by where many of his stories were going, but often pleased with how they got there. I mean when I was reading that first Omnibus, even without knowing stuff online, the story made it seem obvious that Winter Soldier was Bucky, and that Cap would free him by the end of their war. That didn't diminish when it actually happened. It was also no surprise that Barnes would take the mantle for him; what worked was the execution. And so on. That doesn't mean Brubaker is incapable of a turkey (X-MEN: DEADLY GENESIS) or even a work that underwhelms (REBIRTH and parts of the Zemo arc). But it means that I don't hold it against him if I know where a story is heading. I do get bored with some of his tics, such as his fetish for brawls with nameless minions instead of actual villains. The Secret Avengers have a more consistent roster and fight more villains in EVERY appearance but their own book. But, I digress.

It isn't that Barnes doesn't trust Rogers or his allies. He doesn't trust Sin, and it's difficult for him to just cool his heels in a cell when things have to be done, when people need to be saved. There's no way Rogers or anyone can tell him that Sin won't just blow up Falcon and Natasha on a whim, or immediately upon noticing Barnes did not show up, or did not show up alone. If he busts out and they still die anyway, he can at least tell himself for the rest of his life that he sacrificed his own comfort to try his damnedest.

And to be fair, it wasn't Barnes' fault that he was brainwashed as the Winter Soldier for decades, or that Zemo leaked the data about it, or even that Sin was planning this for months, even in the psych ward.

Objectively, every single trial of a Marvel superhero has gone poorly. They are always either convicted falsely (White Tiger) or assassinated before their trial (Steve Rogers), or even after (White Tiger again). I can't think of one court battle in Marvel in which the defendant was a superhero who was genuinely innocent of their charges that didn't end in something horrific, or a conviction. Barnes is probably better on the run. Even the manner in which Justice was convicted of manslaughter over "accidentally" killing his abusive dad was so ridiculous that in no way would it have held up legally. The prosecutor literally drew a gun on him in open court and aimed it at Justice; when Justice was able to disarm her without causing any harm, that implied that part of him had wanted to kill his father. The same legal system that can't keep Rhino in jail no matter how many daylight robberies he commits would sentence a superhero to the electric chair for littering.

Besides, the comic is called CAPTAIN AMERICA. It would be a bit rubbish if the one guy who is still calling himself that decided to sit out the arc and let his buddies have the main action. It's like if Matt Murdock was in prison and Bullseye kidnapped Milla Donovan and Rogers told him, "We totally have this, you just sit tight and do what's right," and he did, in the pages of DAREDEVIL. Hell, Hawkeye shows bad judgment all the time, and that's his main draw.

Onto the other subject: DC being praised for their cheaper comics. Can the praise just end already? I feel like I'm being majorly ripped off!!!

DC gives us 20 pages of material. (Didn't comics used to be about 22 pages before?) That's 15 cents per page. Let's compare that to Marvel!

Marvel, at their worst, charges readers $3.99 for 32 pages of material. That's still cheaper than DC, coming in at 12 1/2 cents per page!!! Since Marvel wanted to compete with DC and lower some of it's comic prices, a $2.99 comic at 32 pages is 9 1/3 cent per page. NOW, quite a few $3.99 comics by Marvel are 40 pages long, which comes to about 10 cents a page.

Look at that!!! DC is ripping us all off!!!! The few DC books I've been reading are over pretty darn fast, and I feel as if things are either being rushed or I'm not getting much story. (I just read Teen Titans conclusion to their first storyline with Damien; and, except for the brief scenes with him in it, the book is pretty darn worthless.)

I'm real sorry I jumped on the "Marvel be damned for not lowering your prices more" bandwagon; because the alternative that DC offers is much, much worse. AND, more costly to YOU!

As others have pointed out, Marvel does NOT have 32 pages of story in every comic. They still have 22 pages in most; they count the 10 pages of ads in their page count. They also count pages of reprints or saga type material. THUNDERBOLTS #150 bragged about being 90 pages long (and charged $4.99), but that included a Thunderbolts saga and a color reprint of THUNDERBOLTS #1, which was longer than the original material. Most comics that Marvel prices at $3.99 offer no additional material and are that price because they're mini's, "important" comics (like AVENGERS, NEW AVENGERS, SECRET AVENGERS, or any event), or to price gouge people who collect new #1 issues. There is no reason for SPIDER-GIRL #1 to be $3.99 when the rest of the issues are going to be $2.99 beyond gouging whoever buys the debut issue because that is the only issue Marvel expects to sell well and they plan for it's demise in less than eight months.

DC's plan to sell 20 pages of story for $2.99 to keep the price down is controversial. On the other hand, few writers these days would really be limited if every issue had two less pages; given how decompressed many are, the issue could be 18 pages and that would merely encourage a tighter pace. And to be fair to DC, they have been honest with what they are doing. They announced at NYCC 2010 that they were slashing all comics to $2.99 in 2011 by cutting two pages from the content, and that's what they're doing.

Marvel, on the other hand, claimed they were cutting prices in 2011, then denied it 3 weeks later when January's solicits showed no evidence of that, then claimed no new ongoing series would debut at $3.99 in 2011 (which, as VENOM will show, is a bold faced lie), then claimed that fans wouldn't even begin to notice price cuts until about April 2011. While Marvel has certainly canceled some low performers, is cutting down on some extra mini's or one-shot material, and lowered the price of INCREDIBLE HULKS (the ONLY major ongoing title that was $4 and got reduced, and probably the last), many of their comics and mini's are $3.99 for no real reason or benefit other than pure, unadulterated greed. Or such desperate fear of sales losses that they're willing to sacrifice their future for the present. Well, the future always comes, true believer, and it is what you've invested into it.

Some of their $3.99 comics are worth it. Both CAPTAIN AMERICA and AMAZING SPIDER-MAN have back-up strips that increase the page count to 30 pages without ads, and for that I don't mind paying it. ANNIHILATORS will offer 44 pages of comic material at $4.99 an issue, or akin to two comics for $2.50 (the price of Marvel comics during the Bill Jemas era). That's fine. But there is no good reason for SECRET AVENGERS to be a $3.99 book, or VENOM #1 to be $3.99 when the rest of the issues will be $2.99.

DC has looked better in terms of the sales figures for November and December 2010 not because they were doing majorly well, but because Marvel's sales drops had gotten very ugly. No end of Marvel comics have 6 month drops of 20% or over, and the 1-2 year drops are even more ghastly. Not even Bendis Avengers comics are immune nor have retained any traction from relaunches. Now, a lot of this can be beyond their control, such as the death of print media and comic shops closing, but Marvel hasn't been quick or imaginative to try to starve this off at all.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I really haven't noticed the diminished page count in DC, but that explains why the books seem to be quicker reads. Not by much, though.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Two pages less doesn't seem like much; but, for some reason, every time I have been reading one of their titles, it just feels rushed. I didn't know they had to cut back, and that's why after reading my first one, I counted the pages and was astonished it came in at only 20 pages. (It also doesn't help that what I've been reading hasn't been that good.) Just like driving your own car, I guess, where you notice the slightest difference with a sound or feel...that's how it was with reading what DC's done.

The big head scratcher is that they still had quite a few comics at $2.99; so, those ones shouldn't have been effected, but are. Seriously, though. A page count with a person trying to tell a story is kind of ridiculous. It must be one of the hard parts of the job to fit everything into that page count each issue. I can't imagine coming up with a great story; then, being told it must be five parts with 22 pages each.

 

[Phaedrus45]

X-Men Forever #16

Well, the end has finally come for this book. I'm happy Claremont got to finish things up with the whole Storm saga that's been going on since the first issue of Volume 1...and, I find the conclusion to that storyline satisfying. The joy of this book was him being able to kill off whoever he liked, even if that character is one of the biggest in Marvel's line-up. (Like he did with Wolverine right off the bat.) The last to die was Havok, and the book ends with his burial. Some plot lines are still left open, like Scott's kid being kidnapped; and, I really hope we might see more of this book in the future. I really enjoyed it more than most of the other X-titles, and it's some of Claremont's best work in years. (Last thing I enjoyed was X-Men: The End; although, I know my sentiment for that one isn't shared by many.)

The biggest downside to this final issue was having a new artist doing the last issue.

Shazam! #1

Decent story, seeing Blaze go up against Shazam. In the end, though, it's all a teaser for readers to continue the story in Titans #32...and, I'm not going to try and get back into book just to find out what happens next. (I have too dificult a time deciding to finally drop a book I'm not enjoying to just pick it back up again....like I've done with Red Robin, Justice Society, and Justice League.)

The New York Five #1

Before I discovered this Brian Wood Vertigo title was a second part to a previous title, called The New York Four, I had called up my comic shop to grab me a copy of the first issue. If I had know that, I wouldn't have made the request, especially since New York Four was published by a comic company I've never even heard of before...and, there is no possible trade collection of that title in sight. (Maybe I can find it at a comic con.) Well, I'm glad I didn't know, because this book is fantastic!!!

This book picks up where the last left off; but, Wood gives a good recap on the first page, and the first issue fills you in well enough with what happens inside. (PLUS, Woods book is still 32 pages, NO ADS!, for only $2.99.) It's in Black and White; but, that might be the real beauty of this book. It's better without color, and the artwork is some of the best I've seen in the black and white format. The story is all about four (soon to be five) girls going to college in New York, and all the drama that goes with it. HUGE recommendation! t:

Thunderbolts #152

I love that we get a tie-in with the monster invasion in Hulk; but, gosh, did this book feel over almost as soon as it begun?? It's a quick read by Jeff Parker; but, the inclusion of Hyperion is a great twist. I still remember the havok this guy caused in Exiles, and things don't look too good for our group of misfits by issue's end. I still have a gripe that we get almost zero advancement of characterization with some of my favorite members of the T-Bolts...namely, Songbird. (This girl has gone through so many changes with the T-Bolts, I'd love an issue devoted to her, what she's thinking, and how she's dealing with it all.) These guys are pretty much two-dimensional. Still, I find Parker's T-Bolts a lot of fun to read.

Teen Titans #91

Oh boy. One minute I'm praising this book for seeming to get back on track, and then things come crashing down with this conclusion to Damien's first storyline. Things are at their best when Damien and Ravenger are fighting and bantering together; and, I can see a nice series stemming out of that. (It would be more fun than what I see in Batman And Robin.) But, sadly, in this issue, we only get a few pages devoted to them, and the rest is the usual Teen Titan garbage. Hell, we even get more of the GOD-AWFUL romance that goes nowhere with Cassie, as Connor breaks up with her. (They've just trashed Cassie's character to no end.)

Green Arrow #8

I don't know if I can hold out to see where Krul is taking this book; because, holy crap, is this issue BAD!!! I mean, it's right up there (or down there) with Fraction's Thor...and, I might hate this book even more than that one. It goes nowhere, each issue is devoted to Ollie talking about the mysterious forest; but, beyond that, Krul gives the readers nothing. And, we all seem to be biding our time until the end of Brightest Day to have ANYTHING remotely interesting going to happen in this title. (Plus, does ANYONE like Gallahad?)

This book just reeks! It's utter garbage that needs to be put to an end. BOY, do I miss Green Arrow/Black Canary.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

New York Four was a graphic novel released from DC's short-lived Minx imprint, which was targeted for women. Mycomicshop.com currently has it for $5 with under $4 standard shipping. Or, you could find more books you want and get the $50 free shipping.

And, you know what? Sometimes the challenge isn't fitting everything into 22 pages...it's FILLING 22 pages. Breaking up a story into parts is actually fairly easy, but ending each part at the appropriate place can be a bit tricky. That's why you sometimes see one or two splash pages in an issue, or pages with large panels. That's a trick either done to enhance that particular scene, or to spread the story out some.

At the start of my legitimate career I did mostly 3-8 page stories. Sure, you can't have all the cinematic nuance of decompression like most comics, but you CAN tell a complete AND good story in that length. Page restrictions force a writer to eliminate all the fluff and get right down to the meat and bones of things. I personally feel if you can do that, it makes you a better writer.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Green Arrow #8

I don't know if I can hold out to see where Krul is taking this book; because, holy crap, is this issue BAD!!! I mean, it's right up there (or down there) with Fraction's Thor...and, I might hate this book even more than that one. It goes nowhere, each issue is devoted to Ollie talking about the mysterious forest; but, beyond that, Krul gives the readers nothing. And, we all seem to be biding our time until the end of Brightest Day to have ANYTHING remotely interesting going to happen in this title. (Plus, does ANYONE like Gallahad?)

This book just reeks! It's utter garbage that needs to be put to an end. BOY, do I miss Green Arrow/Black Canary.

I dropped this comic as of last issue and sold what I had to half priced books. I loved the idea when it started but it's just dragging along like you said. The same with Thunderbolts so I sold those as well.

 

[Phaedrus45]

New York Four was a graphic novel released from DC's short-lived Minx imprint, which was targeted for women. Mycomicshop.com currently has it for $5 with under $4 standard shipping. Or, you could find more books you want and get the $50 free shipping.

And, you know what? Sometimes the challenge isn't fitting everything into 22 pages...it's FILLING 22 pages. Breaking up a story into parts is actually fairly easy, but ending each part at the appropriate place can be a bit tricky. That's why you sometimes see one or two splash pages in an issue, or pages with large panels. That's a trick either done to enhance that particular scene, or to spread the story out some.

At the start of my legitimate career I did mostly 3-8 page stories. Sure, you can't have all the cinematic nuance of decompression like most comics, but you CAN tell a complete AND good story in that length. Page restrictions force a writer to eliminate all the fluff and get right down to the meat and bones of things. I personally feel if you can do that, it makes you a better writer.

Thank you! (Plus, with my discount code, I got it for only $4.50.) I needed to make an order, too; as, I needed to pick up some extra comics for an upcoming Comic Con.

 

[JewishHobbit]

YAY!!!! I finally got my comics!!! But since pretty much everything's been reviewed I'll just do this:

Avengers 9 - :
New Avengers 8 - Mediocre
Secret Avengers 9 - Mediocre
Avengers Academy 8 - Mediocre
Incredible Hulks 621 - Mediocre
Uncanny X-Men 532 - :
X-23 5 -
Age of X Alpha -
X-Men 7 -
Uncanny X-Force 4 -

Good week for the X-Titles save Uncanny (as usual) and a mediocre to bad week for the Avenger titles (less than usual). And the only one not in those two groups was Incredible Hulks which was decent but nothing special. For me Uncanny X-Force was the best of the week hands down with Fantomex shooting up my ranks of favorite characters. X-Men was also good but I hope it's not getting into that crap with the Lizard and his regression of a character plot. But I've always liked it when Spider-Man and the X-Men team up so that's a good thing, and Bachalo's art's only muddy for a couple pages. Otherwise good. And as for X23, it's good that Mr. Sinister is back but can someone just give the dude a haircut? He's looked stupid with that long hair since he first grew it. Just cut the crap.

As for the bad comics I think Uncanny is hands down the winner here. Bad art, boring story, uninteresting characters, etc. Fraction could use some time over in 20-page DC to learn how to pace a story properly. He's 100X worse than Bendis and that's pretty sad.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Edit: Okay, what is freaking up with all the double and triple posting again of late?!

 

[Themanofbat]

Son of a #^%@!!! You're right! When I saw Marvel advertising 32-pages and 40-pages, I didn't imagine they would be adding in the dang ADS!!!

Forget about all the praise I just gave them. They all suck! I've just been tugged, too! (That's like going to a restaurant, ordering a 16 oz. prime rib, and when it comes to the table, a good 1/3 of it is fat!)

Ok...so that means that DC is 15 cents a page. Marvel is about 18 cents for a (cough, cough) 32 page book, which is actually 22 pages, and for a 40-page book, which is really 30, comes to about 13 cents.

All that aside, Amazing Spider-Man IS 30 pages of original material @ $3.99, making slightly better than 13 cents per page... which is the best deal on the market... in regards to Marvel and DC.

 

[JewishHobbit]

And (I feel dirty defending Amazing Spider-Man even still) the backup features to fill out those pages on ASM are actually good and relevant to the main plot... so it's not quite so bad.

While I enjoy Incredible Hulk and Bendis's Avengers (somewhat) their backup stuff are just filler to justify price. I hate that.

 

[Phaedrus45]

And, I'll say it again. I would not gripe if the comic companies would reasonably raise the price of comics to about $3.50. Gouging us a whole extra buck just was uncalled for.

 

[Dread]

That's the problem with greed, though. Once you up the price by two quarters, it gets easier to up it to four. And every time a Marvel exec claims that lowering the quality of the paper or whatnot would only lower the price by, at best, a nickel, that continues it. As if readers would protest if their comics were $3.95 instead of $3.99. As if they'd demand those extra 4 pennies be taken out of their wallets.

Marvel priced their comics for what was good for them, not their fans or the market. The fact that it got them safely through 2009 was probably a miracle. But as 2010 ended it seemed that the ramifications were coming due. It remains to be seen how 2011 will fare.

What I don't understand, though; plenty of $2.99 comics were 22 pages, from Marvel and DC. Why do they have to cut 2 pages to keep it at $2.99 now? What has changed in under a year to make that happen? Are trees becoming scarce? Is recycled paper not an option? Are creator salary contracts seeming more expensive now that sales are waning line wide?

 

[Themanofbat]

Make the comics out of hemp paper...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Isn't Ted Kord still dead? Or do you mean Jamie?

I meant Jaime. Ted's still dead as a doornail, even though he's appeared in like every other arc of Booster Gold.