Bought/Thought for September 1st - SPOILERS

[TheCorpulent1]

The Hulks don't bother me because, again, they're easy to avoid. Don't like 'em? Don't read things with "Hulk(s)" in the title. Simple.

 

[JewishHobbit]

True! Save for Avengers, which Red Hulk will soon be in.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but Bendis' writing was enough to get me to ditch Avengers after a few issues anyway.

Hey, JewHobs, are the X-Men still militaristic *****ebags in X-Men? People seem pretty keen on that title and I've been thinking of trying it out, but I don't want to deal with the more militaristic bent the X-Men have taken lately. I prefer them as superheroes promoting an idealistic future rather than a small army promoting survival at any cost.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Thats how I feel about Wolverine, his kids, Hulks, and Deadpool. I fail to see how they are "being shoved down our throats". There isn't 4 different Atlas ongoings every month. Sure, there is a mini every now and then, but thats it. They aren't showing up in crossovers or main titles

I'm glad I can blame "casual fans", whatever that is, for the demise of a book I really enjoy. But hey, at least there are a few Hulk, Wolverine, Deadpool books I can pick up every month in its place. Theres nothing like a lack of variety and quality.

But, your examples are a case of Marvel shoving those characters down our throats. My example is Jeff Parker shoving the Agents down our throats. For a while there, it seemed if a comic had Jeff's name on it, it would have some appearance by the Agents. For the most part, that wasn't so bad; but, these solo adventures are doing nothing to promote the group. They just haven't been that spectacular.

Personally, I wouldn't gripe if Parker did write some of those overused characters that you give as examples. His Hulk stories made what Loeb had done actually seem interesting. He's a fantastic writer...it's just the Agents as characters aren't that interesting. (Kind of like how Slott's Mighty Avengers never seemed that "mighty." I wish he could have had some big names, and I felt the book suffered because of that.)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The Agents aren't interesting to you. I happen to enjoy every single use Parker finds for them. Granted, I preferred their previous series with the internal politics and such over this current one with the 3D Man everywhere, but they're a damned fine team.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Of course it's to me. Nowhere does it say that my opinion is directed towards the group as a whole. And, as I've said, the main title I find interesting...it's these solo books that have bored me to tears.

Did you like Gorilla-Man?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I loved it. It had the feel of an old pulp comic or '30s movie serial. Ken Hale is every bit the old morally ambiguous hero of those types of things, and they did a nice job of tying it into his modern adventure. It's probably the strongest of the ancillary Agents stuff I've read.

 

[Dread]

It is funny how with AGENTS OF ATLAS, it seems to some of you, Marvel can't win. Not a week goes by on the forums when many fans don't bemoan, "why, oh WHY won't Marvel give anything that isn't a top selling franchise a chance?" And then when they do give something a good, honest push, many of those same fans then whine, "Why can't they stop shoving this down our throats and give us more of the same old top selling rubbish?" Fans like that, frankly, are why Joe Q has zero respect for them, and why he's staked his career to deliberately avoid trying to please them. They can't be pleased.

The fact of the matter is that if you want any new franchise to get "important", you can't just give it one book and call it a day. It has to appear in as many places as possible. Bendis didn't just elevate Luke Cage overnight. First he was popping up in ALIAS, then THE PULSE, then NEW AVENGERS and damn near every story Bendis wrote, even issues of DAREDEVIL. At no point has anyone ever complained, "Oy, enough with Power Man already!" Even Iron Fist didn't get his franchise run on IMMORTAL IRON FIST with Fraction & Brubaker out of thin air; he had to pop up in NEW AVENGERS and pose as DAREDEVIL for a while to get there.

Taste is always subjective. It was probably predictable that nearly anything Jeff Parker wrote for a while would include the Agents. But what did he write, besides their ongoing and mini's? THUNDERBOLTS? Oh, heavens, that sure lights the Top 65 chart on fire, doesn't it? It isn't like they popped up in NEW AVENGERS or SIEGE at all. Steve Gerber did that all the time with characters he created and/or loved in the 70's and 80's, and everyone says that's a great approach.

I've enjoyed AGENTS OF ATLAS, and ATLAS, and GORILLA-MAN completely. I liked X-MEN VS. AGENTS OF ATLAS well enough, it was amusing for two issues. The AVENGERS VS. ATLAS mini wasn't as hot, a bit hit or miss. As as THE URANIAN's mini. NAMORA's one shot was alright. But, sales haven't held up and it seems at this point that Marvel is cutting bait with the Agents, for those of you who don't like seeing anything clog up those waters that isn't Hulk, Wolverine, Deadpool, or soon to be Thor. Marvel's strategy with anything these days is to crank out as many titles as they think they can get away with and beat it flat. Jeff Parker will be writing HULK and it remains to be seen if the Agents will pop up there. From the cover at least, Iron Man will (and there's a character who shows up too rarely these days, Iron Man. I surely can't pick any Marvel comic at random and have a 1:3 chance of having Iron Man in it).

Every time a book with unique or original characters die, something mundane takes it's place. I do agree that Marvel's price scheme doesn't help new or lessor known titles; people may be willing to pay $4 for an Avengers title, but for a D-List franchise? At this point, though, Joe Q charges $3.99 for the staff bathroom, so I don't think that'll change.

 

[Tron Bonne]

It is funny how with AGENTS OF ATLAS, it seems to some of you, Marvel can't win. Not a week goes by on the forums when many fans don't bemoan, "why, oh WHY won't Marvel give anything that isn't a top selling franchise a chance?" And then when they do give something a good, honest push, many of those same fans then whine, "Why can't they stop shoving this down our throats and give us more of the same old top selling rubbish?" Fans like that, frankly, are why Joe Q has zero respect for them, and why he's staked his career to deliberately avoid trying to please them. They can't be pleased.

You know, I find this claim kind of interesting, because I don't many see fans bemoaning that really. The few I do, usually they do pick up the series and stuff you're referring to.

I can't remember who, but I know someone said this too recently, that there was so much call for 'new things' on these forums, but I'm kind of curious where those calls are. I don't see them much. Sure, they pop up occasionally, but I see way more of the latter of what you're talking about than I ever do the former

 

[Dread]

You know, I find this claim kind of interesting, because I don't many fans bemoaning that really. The few I do, usually they do pick up the series and stuff you're referring to.

I can't remember who, but I know someone said this too recently, that there was so much call for 'new things' on these forums, but I'm kind of curious where those calls are. I don't see them much. Sure, they pop up occasionally, but I see way more of the latter of what you're talking about than I ever do the former

My Hype "straw pole" sort of indicates that the only book that features new characters that many buy is AVENGERS ACADEMY. Unless you count AVENGERS: THE CHILDREN'S CRUSADE. I mean, I think more people were reading AGENTS stuff than read YOUNG ALLIES. I was usually the only person talking about ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL.

The former usually comes up whenever some "fan favorite" (as in, "can't sell their own title") guest stars in some mini or issue somewhere, or one of those, "what characters are your fave/get no respect" topics pop up every few months. Hell, the UNCANNY X-FORCE topic for a while got hijacked by people showing their love for Sleepwalker. Maybe I exaggerated how often it comes up, but it does come up regularly.

 

[Phaedrus45]

It is funny how with AGENTS OF ATLAS, it seems to some of you, Marvel can't win. Not a week goes by on the forums when many fans don't bemoan, "why, oh WHY won't Marvel give anything that isn't a top selling franchise a chance?" And then when they do give something a good, honest push, many of those same fans then whine, "Why can't they stop shoving this down our throats and give us more of the same old top selling rubbish?" Fans like that, frankly, are why Joe Q has zero respect for them, and why he's staked his career to deliberately avoid trying to please them. They can't be pleased.

The fact of the matter is that if you want any new franchise to get "important", you can't just give it one book and call it a day. It has to appear in as many places as possible. Bendis didn't just elevate Luke Cage overnight. First he was popping up in ALIAS, then THE PULSE, then NEW AVENGERS and damn near every story Bendis wrote, even issues of DAREDEVIL. At no point has anyone ever complained, "Oy, enough with Power Man already!" Even Iron Fist didn't get his franchise run on IMMORTAL IRON FIST with Fraction & Brubaker out of thin air; he had to pop up in NEW AVENGERS and pose as DAREDEVIL for a while to get there.

Taste is always subjective. It was probably predictable that nearly anything Jeff Parker wrote for a while would include the Agents. But what did he write, besides their ongoing and mini's? THUNDERBOLTS? Oh, heavens, that sure lights the Top 65 chart on fire, doesn't it? It isn't like they popped up in NEW AVENGERS or SIEGE at all. Steve Gerber did that all the time with characters he created and/or loved in the 70's and 80's, and everyone says that's a great approach.

I've enjoyed AGENTS OF ATLAS, and ATLAS, and GORILLA-MAN completely. I liked X-MEN VS. AGENTS OF ATLAS well enough, it was amusing for two issues. The AVENGERS VS. ATLAS mini wasn't as hot, a bit hit or miss. As as THE URANIAN's mini. NAMORA's one shot was alright. But, sales haven't held up and it seems at this point that Marvel is cutting bait with the Agents, for those of you who don't like seeing anything clog up those waters that isn't Hulk, Wolverine, Deadpool, or soon to be Thor. Marvel's strategy with anything these days is to crank out as many titles as they think they can get away with and beat it flat. Jeff Parker will be writing HULK and it remains to be seen if the Agents will pop up there. From the cover at least, Iron Man will (and there's a character who shows up too rarely these days, Iron Man. I surely can't pick any Marvel comic at random and have a 1:3 chance of having Iron Man in it).

Every time a book with unique or original characters die, something mundane takes it's place. I do agree that Marvel's price scheme doesn't help new or lessor known titles; people may be willing to pay $4 for an Avengers title, but for a D-List franchise? At this point, though, Joe Q charges $3.99 for the staff bathroom, so I don't think that'll change.

The problem with this is 1) what I'm talking about is personal opinion, NOT about Jeff Parker's writing, but about my lack of interest in these characters. I have every single issue of Agents and every appearance they've been in. In fact, I would venture a guess that I might have every comic that Jeff Parker has written...or, damn close to it. Just because this isn't my cup of tea doesn't mean I don't think other characters are being rammed down my throat even more. Also, 2) while I might say I don't like this title, which you find refreshing with all the other books people usually buy, I'm still purchasing many, many titles that aren't the usual Wolverine, Hulk, and the like. And, I give them mad props..like with Terry Moore's excellent series, Echo.

Plain and simple, Agents have a track record. They are simply doomed for failure, because the team is not interesting to enough readers for a variety of factors. I don't place that blame on Jeff Parker's writing; because, to me, he's one of the five best Marvel currently has. That said, I don't mind if after Atlas fails if another series or mini gets pitched to me. But, I cannot understand the thinking that says "we have a tough time selling Atlas to the fans; so, lets give them solo books of the characters." (Heck, the first issue of The Uranian bored me enough that I haven't read the next two issues that have been sitting in my box.)

This all said, Agents and their minis still beat the one comic I have disliked by him more than all others: The Age Of The Sentry. (Maybe Sentry needs to join Atlas? That could actually fit together rather nicely.)

 

[Themanofbat]

I think over time, unfortunately, Dread has come to the realization that all comics he likes are considered "good" comics, and all those that he dislikes are "bad" comics, and that we should all be reading the good comics and not buying the bad comics.

This type of holier-than-thou attitude (which usually happens in the mid-20's) about comic books is nothing new... I knew people like that in 1978, and apparantly, I still know people like that in 2010...

Fortunately, most of these kind folks will gain some maturity over time and learn to appreciate that any comic book reader has their own personal tastes and that any and all comics that they buy, regardless of personal opinion, are as good (or possibly as bad) as the people who buy them think they are.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The Uranian was unfortunately probably the weakest of those minis and one-shots. It's a shame 'cause Bob's a pretty cool character.

And bite your tongue, sir. What the Sentry needs is to keep on laying in his shallow grave where he's been since Siege. I expect the Agents will stay together in the background or have a few cameos here and there, and I can't stress enough how much they don't need the Sentry dragging them down. Dude doesn't even fit with the team's theme anyway.

 

[Dread]

The problem with this is 1) what I'm talking about is personal opinion, NOT about Jeff Parker's writing, but about my lack of interest in these characters. I have every single issue of Agents and every appearance they've been in. In fact, I would venture a guess that I might have every comic that Jeff Parker has written...or, damn close to it. Just because this isn't my cup of tea doesn't mean I don't think other characters are being rammed down my throat even more. Also, 2) while I might say I don't like this title, which you find refreshing with all the other books people usually buy, I'm still purchasing many, many titles that aren't the usual Wolverine, Hulk, and the like. And, I give them mad props..like with Terry Moore's excellent series, Echo.

Plain and simple, Agents have a track record. They are simply doomed for failure, because the team is not interesting to enough readers for a variety of factors. I don't place that blame on Jeff Parker's writing; because, to me, he's one of the five best Marvel currently has. That said, I don't mind if after Atlas fails if another series or mini gets pitched to me. But, I cannot understand the thinking that says "we have a tough time selling Atlas to the fans; so, lets give them solo books of the characters." (Heck, the first issue of The Uranian bored me enough that I haven't read the next two issues that have been sitting in my box.)

This all said, Agents and their minis still beat the one comic I have disliked by him more than all others: The Age Of The Sentry. (Maybe Sentry needs to join Atlas? That could actually fit together rather nicely.)

DC follows that reasoning all the time with their struggling franchises; where is all the whining about TEEN TITANS or so on? Their entire strategy seems to be, "when in doubt, give it a spin off, or two". Marvel has started to follow that strategy a bit too often lately, though.

I suppose business wise, those solo mini's didn't make much sense when the core AGENTS OF ATLAS/ATLAS title struggled. But I actually liked the titles and the characters, so I didn't complain. Even if there soon became enough material that Jeff Parker acquired a batting average. It's a bit strange to like a writer yet despise his seminal work. That's like saying, "I adore Bendis' writing, except for NEW AVENGERS, DAREDEVIL, ALIAS, PULSE, or ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN."

Like I said before, Marvel has fallen out of love with the AGENTS. After ATLAS #5 and a Gorilla-Man issue of DEADPOOL TEAM-UP, you won't see them again unless they happen to pop up again in THUNDERBOLTS or HULK.

I admit it probably wasn't wise to launch spin off mini's for solo Agents given how the solo title struggled, especially at $4 a pop. But all Marvel cares about is flooding the market; for everything that ends, 3 more books replace it. Marvel ships about 100 books a month these days. They're clearly not going to publish less books and lower the cover price, so it's either a 3 issue GORILLA-MAN series or it'd just be another Ghost Punisher Pool Verine book. Or another Avengers book.

The Agents will get a rest, though, in the very near future. Your prayers have been answered. Jeff Parker will get his big break on HULK, taking over for Jeph Loeb. Quality will improve, sales will continue to drop. What makes comics sell is a combination of importance, franchise, and creative team, in that order. Quality is almost optional. Usually the better titles are below the Top 50, it seems.

And I happen to like Sentry very much dead, and don't think he would have fit in with Atlas. Maybe if Bendis had never taken a shining to him, but not after. 3-D Man worked, though.

Whenever I mention that Marvel is daffy for pushing a book that doesn't sell well, I'm hit over the head with people who don't think I should obsess about sales figures.

I think over time, unfortunately, Dread has come to the realization that all comics he likes are considered "good" comics, and all those that he dislikes are "bad" comics, and that we should all be reading the good comics and not buying the bad comics.

This type of holier-than-thou attitude (which usually happens in the mid-20's) about comic books is nothing new... I knew people like that in 1978, and apparantly, I still know people like that in 2010...

Fortunately, most of these kind folks will gain some maturity over time and learn to appreciate that any comic book reader has their own personal tastes and that any and all comics that they buy, regardless of personal opinion, are as good (or possibly as bad) as the people who buy them think they are.

Not true. I just admitted that some of the side AGENTS mini's were not all that, like AVENGERS VS. ATLAS or THE URANIAN. I suppose you always miss my reviews for HAUNT, which I rarely lavish with praise. More to the point - when I used to read comics I hated, or at the very least lost interest in, for ages of time, like NEW AVENGERS or ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN or MOON KNIGHT (not VENGEANCE OF THE MOON KNIGHT) or even, lately, INVINCIBLE IRON MAN, people go, "Oh, c'mon Dread, if you don't like it, drop it and just buy the books you like." So when I do, now it's "C'mon Dread, not all the books you read are any good." Which is it, man? Which will make you happy?

Not all of the comics I read are "good", I just prefer "good" comics and try to stick with the comics I consider "good", since I can't afford to buy every comic that comes out just because, and even if I could, I probably wouldn't.

I might mention you, yourself, tend to have a "holier than thou" attitude, or at least displayed it, for people who argue against you about swallowing One More Day/Brand New Day/One Moment In Time/Quesada Spider-Hokum. But I try not to mention that, because I know you're for it, and that's your thing, and that's fine.

I've probably become blunter on Hype, because I write for Examiner now, and that's where I get in my Pollyanna fan writing. What's the point of posting on a message board if I don't shoot from the hip a bit?

 

[Phaedrus45]

DC follows that reasoning all the time with their struggling franchises; where is all the whining about TEEN TITANS or so on? Their entire strategy seems to be, "when in doubt, give it a spin off, or two". Marvel has started to follow that strategy a bit too often lately, though.

I suppose business wise, those solo mini's didn't make much sense when the core AGENTS OF ATLAS/ATLAS title struggled. But I actually liked the titles and the characters, so I didn't complain. Even if there soon became enough material that Jeff Parker acquired a batting average. It's a bit strange to like a writer yet despise his seminal work. That's like saying, "I adore Bendis' writing, except for NEW AVENGERS, DAREDEVIL, ALIAS, PULSE, or ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN."

I only listed two that I didn't like. Atlas main series was always a decent read...though, because of my lack of excitement for these characters, it was always low on my reading list. That first series was pretty good; but, I liked the second most of all. They fit in well with the whole Dark Reign thing. Those solo titles, though, like I said did nada for me. And, the only other title by his I mentioned was Age Of The Sentry. (And, if he can make 3D man work with Atlas, his Age Of The Sentry style of story could easily fit Sentry into Atlas somewhere.)

Now, here are titles that I think Parker did a dang good job on:

Fall Of The Hulks - These books done by Parker actually made me care about all the stuff that Loeb had been doing for the past couple years. It's just like Pak is doing again with Incredible Hulk.

X-Men: First Class - I have a ton of these books signed by Parker. He made old school X-Men fun again; and, this series only went downhill when a new writer came aboard. The comic was still alright; but, nothing compared to Parker's run. (I associate Parker with this book as much as Atlas. Thing is, he didn't have all the spin-offs that would have been overkill for a nice book that came out monthly.)

Underground - Now, this book really displays the talent of Parker. This indie title showed what Parker can do when he gets away from all the superheroes. THIS is what I wish we'd see more of. Sadly, most people ignored it...I'd think even a lot more than Agents.

Thunderbolts - Some of my favorite moments with Thunderbolts came in Parker's run. Now, here is a group book that I would have loved seeing a couple solo stories about. (I never was a fan of Ghost; but, now I want to see more of him.) This shows what great things Parker can do with a title that draws a bigger audience.


Parker also did a few minis that I enjoyed, like Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four...and, one of my biggest surprises, I actually got into the 1602 Universe again with his Spider-Man 1602. (Now, I think THAT is a title only I read on these boards.)

Oh, and before I forget, he wrote a pretty good tale for Wildstorm, called Mysterius. I really like the couple times he's gotten away superheroes.

Like I said before, Marvel has fallen out of love with the AGENTS. After ATLAS #5 and a Gorilla-Man issue of DEADPOOL TEAM-UP, you won't see them again unless they happen to pop up again in THUNDERBOLTS or HULK.

I don't think Marvel has "fallen out of love with (them)." They are gaging the fans reaction; and, they've resurrected this team almost as much as they have Spider-Girl. (I dig me Spider-Girl, and am really sad to see her go.) For me, it seems Marvel has their big guys who get a lot of attention, and we've got these really great writers who take a few years to get noticed...even though they develop a loyal following of fans. (Slott totally comes to mind. Right now, I think Tobin will rise in the ranks, just as Parker has.) For some reason, it just takes Marvel a while to see what we see. Now, Parker is on to "bigger and better things," even if some of us might not agree.

 

[Phaedrus45]

BTW, who knew a little review of Gorilla-Man would solicit such a response? I guess I should have, because Agents seem to get a few people riled up, just as bringing up OMD can do.

 

[Themanofbat]

I've probably become blunter on Hype, because I write for Examiner now, and that's where I get in my Pollyanna fan writing. What's the point of posting on a message board if I don't shoot from the hip a bit?

Well, and I may have been a bit crass in my initial post, but yes, you have become more "harsh" with age... as I mentioned before, I think we've all "been there, done that".

And for the record, I simply try to set the record straight when people make blatant ingnorant posts in regarding the Spider-Books (typically, these are just the people who have a mad-on with JQ because he raped their childhood hero ad nauseum... and will make incorrect statements regarding the new direction), which will put me in a position of "disagreement" with some people... admittedly, ASM hasn't been perfect, but it appears like they are trying to connect the dots... as far as continuity goes.

 

[fifthfiend]

The Agents of Atlas are not a case of, say, wanting to read an Avengers comic but having Bendis' street-level bulls*** with Wolverine, the Sentry, and a few other terrible characters as your only option for the last few years.

Or like wanting to read a Spider-Man comic but for some reason instead of Spider-Man, they only feature Spider-man's alternate-reality Satanist doppelganger.

 

[TimBisley]

That is getting so old. Seriously. Stop.

 

[Dread]

I only listed two that I didn't like. Atlas main series was always a decent read...though, because of my lack of excitement for these characters, it was always low on my reading list. That first series was pretty good; but, I liked the second most of all. They fit in well with the whole Dark Reign thing. Those solo titles, though, like I said did nada for me. And, the only other title by his I mentioned was Age Of The Sentry. (And, if he can make 3D man work with Atlas, his Age Of The Sentry style of story could easily fit Sentry into Atlas somewhere.)

Sentry, as Bendis has done to him, is a broken character (and I didn't care for his premise to begin with). Bendis wrote him as a hopelessly insane god-moder who has no definitive origin and has the power to do anything. He's been the loyal lapdog of Iron Man at his worst and Norman Osborn at HIS worst. He's butchered people with a smile. I don't think even Jeff Parker could make Sentry anything more than an insane lapdog if Sentry were resurrected. With Thor back, there seems to be little reason to do so.

To me, Blue Marvel/Adam Brashear is "the Sentry done right", but I know I am a minority of one on that one.

Now, here are titles that I think Parker did a dang good job on:

Fall Of The Hulks - These books done by Parker actually made me care about all the stuff that Loeb had been doing for the past couple years. It's just like Pak is doing again with Incredible Hulk.

X-Men: First Class - I have a ton of these books signed by Parker. He made old school X-Men fun again; and, this series only went downhill when a new writer came aboard. The comic was still alright; but, nothing compared to Parker's run. (I associate Parker with this book as much as Atlas. Thing is, he didn't have all the spin-offs that would have been overkill for a nice book that came out monthly.)

Underground - Now, this book really displays the talent of Parker. This indie title showed what Parker can do when he gets away from all the superheroes. THIS is what I wish we'd see more of. Sadly, most people ignored it...I'd think even a lot more than Agents.

Thunderbolts - Some of my favorite moments with Thunderbolts came in Parker's run. Now, here is a group book that I would have loved seeing a couple solo stories about. (I never was a fan of Ghost; but, now I want to see more of him.) This shows what great things Parker can do with a title that draws a bigger audience.

Only read X-MEN: FIRST CLASS and THUNDERBOLTS out of that. I liked both. I did stay on UNCANNY X-MEN FIRST CLASS after he left, and while Scott Grey did a better job than I expected, I agree it wasn't the same.

Your desire for THUNDERBOLTS solo mini's or one shots is interesting. As of July 2010, THUNDERBOLTS #146 sold 31,501 copies. That's down about 500 copies from June, and while SIEGE boosted sales for the title about 3-5% over a six month period, the title has been declining since Jeff Parker got on it. Quality wise, I love it - I never read T-BOLTS before, and I got onto the book for Jeff Parker. But with sales at 31.5k and dropping (I have little faith a crossover with AVENGERS ACADEMY, which itself sells only about 7,000 copies more, will boost sales much), a spin-off one shot or mini for any of Parker's T-Bolts characters would perform very poorly. Proof? NEW AVENGERS: LUKE CAGE #3 (of 3) sold just over 13k in June. And one could argue Luke Cage is the most popular and well known on the T-Bolts roster right now. One could imagine a GHOST one shot selling far below that. You've just pined for a practice that you lamented about Marvel doing with AGENTS OF ATLAS, just for a franchise YOU happened to like more. I guess we're all subjective, eh?

For the record, while Parker has more than double his ATLAS audience on THUNDERBOLTS, it isn't triple. HULK will be his biggest book to date, and it's a shame that I have no interest in it or trying to research a half dozen HULK characters or status quo's to comprehend it. T-Bolts, on the other hand, was an easier format to hop aboard with a writer change, or at least Parker handled the transition well, spending an issue to re-introduce his cast before, naturally, bringing in the AGENTS OF ATLAS for two issues.

Parker also did a few minis that I enjoyed, like Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four...and, one of my biggest surprises, I actually got into the 1602 Universe again with his Spider-Man 1602. (Now, I think THAT is a title only I read on these boards.)

Often unmentioned is that SPIDER-MAN AND THE FANTASTIC FOUR mini series was the last complete work that 'Ringo did before he died. The WHAT IF - NEW FANTASTIC FOUR one shot, also alongside Parker, was completed by other artists ('Ringo himself only completed about 7-8 pages). It also was the first and, to date, only comic in which Spider-Man was deputized as an actual Fantastic Four member by the founders, complete with a (brief) "4" on his chest. But because it was a side mini, and because the threat was "mundane" (basically a random alien/time traveler), the mini sold poorly and goes unappreciated. Until now, you were the first person to mention it after I bought it. And here I thought no one else gave a spit about that one.

I don't think Marvel has "fallen out of love with (them)." They are gaging the fans reaction; and, they've resurrected this team almost as much as they have Spider-Girl. (I dig me Spider-Girl, and am really sad to see her go.) For me, it seems Marvel has their big guys who get a lot of attention, and we've got these really great writers who take a few years to get noticed...even though they develop a loyal following of fans. (Slott totally comes to mind. Right now, I think Tobin will rise in the ranks, just as Parker has.) For some reason, it just takes Marvel a while to see what we see. Now, Parker is on to "bigger and better things," even if some of us might not agree.

I'd like to see Parker handle an Avengers book. I liked his usage of Slott's Mighty team in THUNDERBOLTS. His Quicksilver vs. Mr. X moment was one of those "scan them and post them because it is awesome" moments.

Technically, ATLAS had a mini, a two year wait before an ongoing attempt, then a few mini's and guest shots before a second stab an an ongoing. SPIDER-GIRL has had far more. Heck, now Marvel is basically using the name to relaunch, essentially, ARANA. I think this is it for ATLAS, at least for now. Parker seemed to imply that he chose to end the book with issue five, rather than wait for editorial to axe it with issue six or so.

BTW, who knew a little review of Gorilla-Man would solicit such a response? I guess I should have, because Agents seem to get a few people riled up, just as bringing up OMD can do.

I've stumbled into quite a few of those situations myself. Insult (or be seen as insulting) a fan of PET AVENGERS or SCOTT PILGRIM at your peril. Heaven help you if you insult the works themselves. Interesting that it seems that AGENTS OF ATLAS has gotten that sort of fanatic cult following 'round these parts. I rarely get to be part of a ravenous mob.

Well, and I may have been a bit crass in my initial post, but yes, you have become more "harsh" with age... as I mentioned before, I think we've all "been there, done that".

And for the record, I simply try to set the record straight when people make blatant ingnorant posts in regarding the Spider-Books (typically, these are just the people who have a mad-on with JQ because he raped their childhood hero ad nauseum... and will make incorrect statements regarding the new direction), which will put me in a position of "disagreement" with some people... admittedly, ASM hasn't been perfect, but it appears like they are trying to connect the dots... as far as continuity goes.

I have technically been on SHH since I was 19. I'm 28 now, and as a person have gotten more experienced, mature, seasoned, cynical, and outright bitter. It is easier to hope for the future at 19. It is ludicrous to do so at 28.

To set my record straight, I don't intent to imply that my tastes are above anyone else's, and quite a few times I state liking something that is unpopular or is a guilty pleasure. Hardly anyone reads DYNAMO 5 or HAUNT. I never mention watching "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD" without mentioning "guilty pleasure" immediately after. I just name dropped ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL and almost everyone hated it, and I don't argue the point and rant like it was a missed Eisner work. I merely acknowledge that new ideas, and lessor known characters, are always a tougher sell than the latest Deadpool Avengers title. And heck, which Avengers title is selling the worst right now? AVENGERS ACADEMY, the one with all those new characters.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I love the Pet Avengers!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Dread hates the Pet Avengers because he is dead inside.

 

[Dread]

I certainly must be, to not get my jollies from watching Thanos lose to a bunch of talking animals. What is he now, Cruella DeVille?

Every time THANOS IMPERATIVE comes out, I try to close my eyes and not imagine that the same Thanos who is the key to destroying the Cancerverse and is considered a threat to a universe once lost to Ms. Lions and some critters who are barely house trained. It had to be a Thanosi, it just had to be...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He lost to the Infinity Gems, you grinch. No shame in that.

 

[Dread]

Really? So if Baron Zemo lost to a hamster with a Cosmic Cube, that wouldn't be the sort of thing you'd quietly try to forget?

Heck, I like Squirrel Girl, but even I try not to remind myself too much that she somehow made Dr. Doom beg for mercy with squirrels.