Bought/Thought January 2nd, 2009

Spider-Man got Crisised, but he didn't get one of the neat Superman or Wonder Woman Crisis reboots. He got Batman's "we're going on like nothing happened, and will change the past when we see fit" reboot. Frankly, Marvel would be fools not to cash in by giving Spider-Man an equivalent to DC's "Year One" books, where they retell old school Spidey stories to let us know how they turned out in the new canon.
 
Incorrect. What has changed is in fact the marriage which outright never happened, Peter and MJ don't recall being married because they never were. Additionally the recollections of Spider-Man's identity have been changed in some not yet described way.

It all still happened. It's just that no one remembers things the way that they occurred. What's interesting is seeing who actually remembers things as they really were. Despayre made an interesting comment about this in Avengers/Invaders.

Spider-Man got Crisised, but he didn't get one of the neat Superman or Wonder Woman Crisis reboots. He got Batman's "we're going on like nothing happened, and will change the past when we see fit" reboot. Frankly, Marvel would be fools not to cash in by giving Spider-Man an equivalent to DC's "Year One" books, where they retell old school Spidey stories to let us know how they turned out in the new canon.

Yeah, they tried that. It was called Chapter 1. :shudder:
 
Elswick, I can't wait till you piss off the right person an' get yer sorry ass banned. Every post I've seen from you here has been nuttin' but an attack on another poster. Seriously, get a f***ing life or get the f*** out.


http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/elswick1979/******_prize.jpg
 
Reviews presented in alphabetical order...

All things related to Ink aside, I actually like this book. However, I recently heard that it's been cancelled, and its final issue will be #12. Over in the Young X-Men thread in the X-Men forums, I said how launching this book was a bad idea to begin with. Not because of any creative reasons, but because this book wouldn't be getting canned if it was still New X-Men. Prior to Messiah CompleX, New X-Men was selling fairly decently. It wasn't cancelled due to low sales, but merely so they could relaunch it as Young X-Men with a new issue #1. Young X-Men clearly hasn't been selling nearly as well as New X-Men, and I think if they had simply switched creative teams, they would've retained most of their readers, and Guggenheim's story would still be going strong. Basically, Marvel's gimmicky relaunch did the exact opposite of what they wanted.

I totally agree with you dude, 100%. New X-Men was doing just fine, why didn't they just change the name from New X-Men to Young X-Men and just keep the same numbering. Recently having new #1's has usually helped with sales and gaing new readers; Captain America, Ironman, New Avengers, Thor, etc..., but this is not one of those cases. Marvel should've just did what they did with Inc Hulk/Herc and just change the name of the book, without making a new #1. Increible Herc is awesome and has a great fanbase, but others have said that if Inc Herc started with a new #1, it would've been more risky and could've cost the book it's current success, this is what happened with Young X-Men. Plus they got rid of a great cast of characters, they didn't fall into limbo but they were good where they were.

Surge
Hellion
Rockslide
Mercury
Dust
Elixir
X-23
Prodigy
Anole
Pixie
 
This story's only five parts long, actually.

I see. Well, I think most of INCREDIBLE HERC's stories have been about 4-5 parts, haven't they?

Spider-Man got Crisised, but he didn't get one of the neat Superman or Wonder Woman Crisis reboots. He got Batman's "we're going on like nothing happened, and will change the past when we see fit" reboot. Frankly, Marvel would be fools not to cash in by giving Spider-Man an equivalent to DC's "Year One" books, where they retell old school Spidey stories to let us know how they turned out in the new canon.

Yeah, I agree. Basically in the memories of everyone, Peter & MJ were just "living together" for a period of time, not actually married. At most they were "engaged" for a while. Of course, trying to make a lot of stories work in that frame-rate doesn't happen. The marriage itself was stressful and was canon for a lot of stories. The fact that it has been over a year real time with some 3-4 writers on ASM and they STILL have no clue how to explain everything is a clear sign to me they are making it up as they go along, with one eye towards the sales numbers, wondering if they should bother.

Of course, you can also see it another, blunt way; the stories are what they are, and Mephisto has literally mesmerized an entire planet, maybe even a chunk of a universe, to make sure a love that happened never did. Given the choice of his elderly mother or his wife, Peter was still too immature to choose, so MJ chose for him, chose to make the self sacrifice for Peter that Peter was struggling to make for her. And then, boom. All the allies Peter made now suspect him because of his secret ID. The person waiting up for him for countless battles now is dating someone else and trying to forget it herself. And Peter's a happy mesmerized fool, out in college living with his aunt having 70's style bachelor stories. It's a big tragedy of inhuman levels. It's like trying to enjoy Morph in EXILES knowing full well that is simply Proteus wearing Morph's corpse and being tricked into acting like Morph, and all of Morph's friends just act like everything is normal. It doesn't come off as human or genuine. It comes off as a comic book level farce, and that is why I can't swallow it.

Granted, if they wanted the Parkers split, the more human approach would have been an outright divorce. But, that way the entire shebang couldn't be undone via an adventure with Loki & Dr. Strange if in SPIDER-MAN 4 Sam Raimi decides to marry the two, and Joe Q has to pull a 180. Because you know darn well that would happen. Hell, when Joe Q became EIC in 2000, Mackie had effectively split the couple up. MJ had been kidnapped and traumatized and could no longer deal with Peter's Spider-life. A split then was inevitable. But then 2001 came, hype for the movie came and Joe Q (and Bill Jemas) knew that keeping the two together in the comics would help bridge things, so new writer JMS got tapped to rekindle the marriage. Then, well, after a successful sequel or at least an idea that no marriage would occur in SPIDER-MAN 3, well, then Joe Q claims it was all about principle, all about doing what past EIC's wanted to do. And to a degree he was write; the Clone Saga was an attempt to write off the Parkers in exchange for Reilly as a younger single Spidey. But my only point is that if it really was all about principle, then Joe Q would have played the hand he was dealt in 2000-2001 and allowed them to split as Mackie intended. Instead, he reunited them for a movie. In the end it was all about the benjamins, and if a marriage became about that, too, then it would be remade.

In a way, what happened with NEW X-MEN/YOUNG X-MEN is a microcosm for what has happened to Spider-Man, or in a way even M-Day. My point is that Marvel in both instances looked at a situation that did need some minor tweaks or fixes, and instead completely overreacted and overdid things.

After the end of the Morrison run, there were millions of mutants and they had all but become mundane. Now, while I and others thought that such things finally allowed the mutants to become a genuine metaphor for race relations in the 21st century rather than before the end of the Civil Rights movement in the 60's, I also could understand wanting to try to make mutants more "rare". But instead of a minor tweak (perhaps a minor massacre or two), we got M-DAY which literally reduced the amount of mutants to fewer people than show up at a typical Comic Con. They used a nuke to kill a fly. And in a way NEW X-MEN was the same. Before Kyle & Yost got aboard the whole ACADEMY X thing, the book had a ton of characters and more teen soap than action. It needed a mild kick in the keester to improve. Instead, Kyle & Yost went on a 1-2 year long SLAUGHTER FEST killing off supporting characters left and right like a cheap FRIDAY THE 13TH movie and then feeling that good writing is, basically, depicting people as miserable after terrible things have happened to them. Instead of a patch up of drywall, they demolished the house. Then, after all they, they ended NEW X-MEN and pretty much left every good and worthwhile character out in YOUNG X-MEN in exchange for lessor characters, and then spent the first arc doing nothing but killing time before MESSIAH COMPLEX. Predictably, sales fell, and the book is canceled.

Maybe we need less "group-think" in Marvel editorial and more connections to reality.

In terms of Spider-Man, what Marvel has done is similar to what DC has done with their Crisis moments recently; sacrificed what fans in their 20's are familiar with for what fans in their 30's-40's are familiar with. For a company that claims youth is the future, undoing the dynamic in Spidey's life that pretty much every fan who is about 25-27 years old, or younger, remembers and feels is perfectly normal. And that breeds resentment, and at a younger age, it is easier to walk away. It is a risky gamble.
 
Cap and Green Lantern were great as usual.
 
Before Kyle & Yost got aboard the whole ACADEMY X thing, the book had a ton of characters and more teen soap than action. It needed a mild kick in the keester to improve. Instead, Kyle & Yost went on a 1-2 year long SLAUGHTER FEST killing off supporting characters left and right like a cheap FRIDAY THE 13TH movie and then feeling that good writing is, basically, depicting people as miserable after terrible things have happened to them. Instead of a patch up of drywall, they demolished the house. Then, after all they, they ended NEW X-MEN and pretty much left every good and worthwhile character out in YOUNG X-MEN in exchange for lessor characters, and then spent the first arc doing nothing but killing time before MESSIAH COMPLEX. Predictably, sales fell, and the book is canceled.
Assuming the bolded "they" is in reference to the writing team of Kyle and Yost, a few of your facts are muddled. Kyle and Yost have nothing to do with YOUNG X-MEN, on basis that they aren't writing it. (They're writing X-FORCE and took X-23 along for the ride.) Marc Guggenheim is writing YOUNG X-MEN, so he's the one who exchanged the NEW X-MEN team Kyle and Yost had been using for "lesser characters."

Nor was the first arc of YOUNG X-MEN wasted time before MESSIAH COMPLEX, given that MESSIAH COMPLEX happened before the change-up of X-books, and went through NEW X-MEN, which we have established preceded YOUNG X-MEN.

Rather, it could be said: YOUNG X-MEN started out weak and without much steam. Sales have been low, and the book is canceled.

Just putting it out there.
 
They also took Elixir, eventually, as support.

NXM was the biggest waste of MC; even if Kyle and Yost had to move on (taking their personal favourite with them), they should have kept the basic group going; they had a very strong foundation.
 
Actually, Young X-Men #1 started out in the Top 20 (it was just after Messiah CompleX, and all of the X-books were in the Top 20), quickly dropped down to New X-Men's sales numbers with #2, and continued to fall.

If you mean in terms of story, yes, Young X-Men started out very weak. Even the writer admits this, as he was just trying to waste time until the rest of the X-books officially moved to San Francisco. The book's taken a turn for the better since that first arc (Ink's ridiculous new tattoo aside).
 
Yes, I meant in terms of story. I know I haven't ranted about the values of story over on the X-boards in some time, but... Manic, dear Manic, have you truly forgotten?
 
Forgot who I was talking to, for a second.


I really gotta say, the X-office's decision to avoid the old blue/gold squad format is really going to backfire for a lot of us fans. Young X-Men was the only squad separate from Uncanny's rotating cast, and that cast's idea of rotation is "should we use Karma, Pixie, or Colossus in addition to the same few we always use?" The X-Men are about to have a lot of characters in limbo. A lot more than they already have, that is.
 
Astonishing and Uncanny should go back to that format, 2 teams - 2 books. Now that Young X-Men is being cancelled maybe they could eventually turn X-Men Lagacy into the new book for the New/Young X-Men. X-Force could stay as the secret, underground X-Men
 
I thought the same thing; they've got AXM and UXM using basically the same characters (swap up Armour and Pixie), and tons of reasonably big names and cult favourites languishing.

Now, since UXM is meant to be the flagship, it makes complete sense for the top characters (Cyclops, Emma, etc.) to be there, rather than stuck in AXM like they were through Whedon's tenure. They should have given Ellis Storm and Beast and asked him to pick out a few others for his main cast.

Multiple solo titles for characters can drag on a story level, but the X-Men (and the Avengers, for that matter) actually have more than enough characters for a couple of teams.
 
Whats up with Surge, Hellion, and Mercury?

Young - Rockslide, Anole, Dust
Force - X-23, Elixir
Uncanny - Pixie

Also why hasn't Onyx ever been used?
 
Because Onyx sucks, and is a redundant character when you've got Rockslide and Nezhno?
 
Because Onyx sucks, and is a redundant character when you've got Rockslide and Nezhno?

Well Nezhno is over in Africa and when it comes down to it Rockslide and Onyx are very different.
 
How so? Rockslide is only slightly less ******ed, sure, but what other differences are there?
 
Power-Wise, they are different. Onyx is more similar to Thing, which is what Rockslide use to be until he started to learn more about his powers and what he is capable of. They are both made of rock, but that doesn't make Onyx redudndent. Does Hercules become redundent just because Hulk shows up? I dont think so.
 
Assuming the bolded "they" is in reference to the writing team of Kyle and Yost, a few of your facts are muddled. Kyle and Yost have nothing to do with YOUNG X-MEN, on basis that they aren't writing it. (They're writing X-FORCE and took X-23 along for the ride.) Marc Guggenheim is writing YOUNG X-MEN, so he's the one who exchanged the NEW X-MEN team Kyle and Yost had been using for "lesser characters."

Nor was the first arc of YOUNG X-MEN wasted time before MESSIAH COMPLEX, given that MESSIAH COMPLEX happened before the change-up of X-books, and went through NEW X-MEN, which we have established preceded YOUNG X-MEN.

Rather, it could be said: YOUNG X-MEN started out weak and without much steam. Sales have been low, and the book is canceled.

Just putting it out there.

"They" probably meant the editorial plan, as I knew Kyle & Yost didn't write YXM.

The problem is that some version of "teen X-Team" book has been done for so long, no one knows why or for what purpose. The X-Line isn't strong enough to support as many spin-off's that aren't WOLVERINE as it used to be. Better to integrate the younger characters into the main X-titles and build them up properly.
 
Power-Wise, they are different. Onyx is more similar to Thing, which is what Rockslide use to be until he started to learn more about his powers and what he is capable of. They are both made of rock, but that doesn't make Onyx redudndent. Does Hercules become redundent just because Hulk shows up? I dont think so.
I can totally take this conversation away from Onyxx's powers, and straight to how ******ed he is, you know.

Onyxx is the idiot who fell in love with Mystique when she created the false identity of a student named Foxx. Even after she was caught and put in a holding cell, Onyxx walked into her cell, declared his love for her, and threatened to hurt her if she didn't turn back into Foxx and say she loved him. If memory serves, they actually got into a physical fight.

And don't give me any of that "it's only because Milligan was writing him" junk. Milligan created the guy. He was a re-re in his very inception.
"They" probably meant the editorial plan, as I knew Kyle & Yost didn't write YXM.

The problem is that some version of "teen X-Team" book has been done for so long, no one knows why or for what purpose. The X-Line isn't strong enough to support as many spin-off's that aren't WOLVERINE as it used to be. Better to integrate the younger characters into the main X-titles and build them up properly.
It'd be great to rotate the kids into the regular X-Men titles, except there are literally too many of them. When "They Who Shall Not Be Named" were writing New X-Men, it had a cast of nearly a dozen kids. Thanks to Guggenheim, we now have two additional teenage X-Men, and a human with tattoo powers that Cyclops wants to keep tabs on.
 
Whether Onyx is a re-re, doesn't mean he shouldn't be used here or there.
 
Preferably there.
 
It all still happened. It's just that no one remembers things the way that they occurred.

Again, incorrect. Spider-man was not married, did not ever get married and has never been married, there was never a wedding at which he got married, he never at any point in his history entered into a state of matrimony. It was wholly and utterly excised from history and from ever having happened. It is in no way whatsoever the case that 'no one remembers things the way that they occured' because they emphatically did not ever occur that way.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"