Shazam Box Office Thread $

DCEU tried to hang their hat on "we're dark and edgy" at first...but is that something you want to be known for? That doesn't really help with mass appeal which you need for a blockbuster. Now they're trying to bank on star power with The Rock, Ben Affleck, plus James Gunn and Henry Cavill somewhat. But it's just not working so far.
Objectively speaking, BvS was the only film that's arguably "Dark and Edgy". On the other hand it was more of a Batman film more than anything else. But even then I'd argue BvS was more straight faced than necessarily "Dark". A Dark superhero film to me is something like The Crow and Blade. I think DCU can differentiate themselves with a tone that's serious about itself. That doesn't necessarily means dark.

If anything DC's issue is that the base is fragmented, in addition to them having too many separate universes with wonky continuity. There's been no stability due to behind the scenes politics. Not to mention again the broken fandom.
 
Objectively speaking, BvS was the only film that's arguably "Dark and Edgy". On the other hand it was more of a Batman film more than anything else. But even then I'd argue BvS was more straight faced than necessarily "Dark". A Dark superhero film to me is something like The Crow and Blade. I think DCU can differentiate themselves with a tone that's serious about itself. That doesn't necessarily means dark.

If anything DC's issue is that the base is fragmented, in addition to them having too many separate universes with wonky continuity. There's been no stability due to behind the scenes politics. Not to mention again the broken fandom.
BvS effectively fragmented the DC Fandom in a way I haven't seen before. The cult of personality around Snyder sure didn't help.
 
Objectively speaking, BvS was the only film that's arguably "Dark and Edgy". On the other hand it was more of a Batman film more than anything else. But even then I'd argue BvS was more straight faced than necessarily "Dark". A Dark superhero film to me is something like The Crow and Blade. I think DCU can differentiate themselves with a tone that's serious about itself. That doesn't necessarily means dark.

If anything DC's issue is that the base is fragmented, in addition to them having too many separate universes with wonky continuity. There's been no stability due to behind the scenes politics. Not to mention again the broken fandom.
Man of Steel had
-Someone questioning whether Clark should've let a bus full of children die
-Purposefully invoked 9/11 imagery in city destruction scenes
-Had a hero who spent a majority of the movie brooding, sad and moping.
-Had little to no levity in it

It seems to me like they were trying to be darker/edgier. Funny to say, but darkness isn't a black or white thing. Sure I'm not saying MoS is dark on the level of The Crow, Joker, or even Logan. But clearly it was made with the intentions of being dark and edgy rather than just serious. And reportedly that's what they said they were going for: Man of Steel to be 'Edgy' Like The Dark Knight. You can make a serious movie that isn't necessarily dark. For example, I don't even consider TDKS or some of the Craig Bond films as "dark." I would just call those more serious.

And I'm counting Suicide Squad 2016 as an attempt to be dark because if you remember Ayer's original take and even the initial marketing showed it as being dark and edgy. They only changed it to being DC's answer to GotG after BvS's reception with audiences went left. They clearly greenlit it to be a darker movie when initially shooting and Ayer along with others have said as much.

So even if you take out MoS, 2/3 of their first 3 movies were made with the intention of being dark. That's clearly what they were going for with the DCEU from 2012-2016.

"Straight laced" is more how I'd describe Villaneuve's blockbusters like Blade Runner 2049 or Dune. Not really what I'd call the first 3 installments of the DCEU.

But honestly I don't really care about the terminology. Whatever you want to call it. Straight laced, dark, edgy, mature, whatever. Cool. I don't really care to discuss that particular point further as I'm not tryna get hung up on that.
My point is that the DCEU tried to hang their hat on, or have their differentiator be, something that isn't necessarily commercially viable for big budget blockbuster movies or at least that hadn't been commercially viable in a while. And that was a bad decision.

I agree and would've loved/would love for DCEU movies to be more serious to MCU's "fun" and "bright" takes, while still having an element of fun to them. I would also like MCU movies to be more serious while still being fun, but that's another thread.
Kinda like in 2008. You had the serious TDK that still was fun. But then you had the fun but still serious take with Iron Man. That's great. DC being more in tone to something like Mission Impossible Fallout sounds awesome to me with the MCU doing their thing. But DC kinda screwed themselves there.
They thought serious/dark meant to completely shying away humor and making movies for "adults" because I guess they thought adults don't like humor and just like brooding and level 1 philosophy. Which was just odd thinking. That's the main point of what you quoted.
Why did they have this thinking? Idk. There are plenty of serious or dark movies that have a good amount of fun and levity in them. Even the pretty bleak movie Logan (or even using The Crow example) had levity, likable characters, and heart amongst the futility, violence, weariness, and darker elements.

Semi TL; DR: Straight laced, dark, etc. whatever you want to call it; DC/WB wanted their differentiator to be something that wasn't commercially appealing. And the lack of appeal can be seen in the critical or commercial results for their first 3 movies. Stumbling out the gate like that didn't help them at all and left them without a proper identity which they are still struggling with finding today.
 
Last edited:
BvS effectively fragmented the DC Fandom in a way I haven't seen before. The cult of personality around Snyder sure didn't help.

Maybe, but you certainly can't blame them for Black Adam. Which a few loons on twitter might actually do lol.
 
Semi TL; DR: Straight laced, dark, etc. whatever you want to call it; DC/WB wanted their differentiator to be something that wasn't commercially appealing. And the lack of appeal can be seen in the critical or commercial results for their first 3 movies. Stumbling out the gate like that didn't help them at all and left them without a proper identity which they are still struggling with finding today.
I personally think Marvel colored people's perception of what Comic Book blockbusters should be for better or for worse and people expect that now. Remember there were people whining about how dark MoM was. I also think Transformers did it too for other non Comic Book genre films, but that's a different rabbit hole. I've said this before but Hollywood is going back into a Sci-Fi Ghetto with movies imo.
 
Last edited:
Maybe, but you certainly can't blame them for Black Adam. Which a few loons on twitter might actually do lol.
It's the same with TSS, people blame Ayer's version for the second one under performing while over looking the fact people saw it but just didn't like it on it's own merits. Me personally I didn't like either Film. I love the characters and and even the actors. I just didn't care for either of those films. I guess the animated movies will remain my favorite adaptations of SS. It is what it is.
 
BvS effectively fragmented the DC Fandom in a way I haven't seen before. The cult of personality around Snyder sure didn't help.
I'm more of a Marvel girl, but from what I've seen DC Fandom has always been fractured. I personally think this was always going to happen among core fans regardless of Snyder.
 
Maybe, but you certainly can't blame them for Black Adam. Which a few loons on twitter might actually do lol.

Let us not act as if the "boycott" this and tag hashtags are just a small thing.
When there is a coordinated hashtag spamming done everywhere, it is effective if we like it or not.
Review bombing etc are very real things too.
The way their behaviour affects even the General Audience negative, can not be ignored.

But we cant blame it all on Snyderfans, its not all just because of them.
When you hear that Black Adam would have needed to make 600 Million to break even...thats insane.
Even with The Rock as lead.
How do you expect a for General Audience relative unknown character to make 600 Million to just break even...especially after the mess WB is/was in?

However, i think the single biggest problem that not just Comic book movies face, is that they get too expensive.
If you have to make 800 to a 1 Billion to be considered a success...then thats insane.
With all that is going on in the world, this is demanding too much.
We still havent fully recovered from COVID, there is a War going on that has global consequences etc...that is not even tackling possible superhero fatigue.
 
Let us not act as if the "boycott" this and tag hashtags are just a small thing.
look, either they're a vocals minority, or some kinda large opposing force. They can't be both lol. Also there was plenty of anti-snyder people trashing the film before it even came out. Face it DC Fans are just toxic AF regardless of whether it's Snyder fans or "True DC fans". There's also probably some Marvel stans stirring the pot too.
 
look, either they're a vocals minority, or some kinda large opposing force. They can't be both lol. Also there was plenty of anti-snyder people trashing the film before it even came out.

The only ones who i see claim they are a vocal minority, are the so called "good" snyderfans that somehow never see the bad, despite following the known toxic accounts on social media.
So i do think they are a large opposing force.

Of course you have more groups trashing these movies, be it the comic purists or so.
People underestimate how bad Fandoms can make movies look for Casual Viewers.
Look at the Star Wars fandom that made hurt Andor so much because it has no space wizard in it and all that.
 
Yeah blaming stuff like internet boycotts or whatever is silly. The internet is a small part of the picture of the general public
 
I personally think Marvel colored people's perception of what Comic Book blockbusters should be for better or for worse and people expect that now. Remember there were people whining about how dark MoM was. I also think Transformers did it too for other non Comic Book genre films, but that's a different rabbit hole. I've said this before but Hollywood is going back into a Sci-Fi Ghetto with movies imo.
Not sure why I'm quoted because I don't think that has anything to do with what I said. But in any case I agree and disagree. I agree but it really only applies to internet dwellers and maybe reviewers.
From what I can tell, the GA aren't the ones shocked by the level of violence in MoM or even Joker. Unless they only watch MCU superhero movies. And that's a minority of people.
People on the net who aren't the GA might clutch their pearls and some of the violence in MoM or giggle/make a big deal that She Hulk mentions sex. But again that's even a small minority or people online. It's a bit annoying but eh it is what it is.

In any case, there are too many examples of non MCU or non MCU like superhero movies/properties that have been successful in some way post 2012 to act that, en masse, the MCU has changed perception and audiences only expect one type of thing when it comes to SH movies.

And when the DCEU was getting off the ground in 2013, that problem really didn't exist. The MCU was strong but not all encompassing as it is now. So I don't think that's good reasoning or excuse for the DCEU faltersm
It's DC's own fault by not building memorable takes on the characters. It's not anything to do with the MCU. You can make a mature, serious, dark, explicit, etc. SH movie like Joker or Logan or even TV show like The Boys, Watchmen, or Invincible and have it be successful. MCU or not
And even then DC had all that time pre the MCU to build their film brand and they only stuck with Batman. So I can't even shoot them any bail by saying the MCU has changed perception

Easier said than done, but make the characters make interesting and market them better. Worked with Joker. Worked with Aquaman
 
Just my last long winded post about DC/WB: I also think that, for whatever reasons, a lot of people look deeper than they need to into why the DCEU hasn't been a resounding success.

Either it's a straight nutjob unprovable conspiracy like "Disney paid off critics," a silly easily disproven conspiracy like "People are biased against dark movies," or just easily disproven points like "the MCU has changed the audience perception of superhero movies, so serious DC movies struggle"

People seem afraid to or refuse to just admit that the DC films is where it is because WB has many times failed to:
A) Create good marketing campaigns or even just making good marketing decisions like how to name a movie
B) Keep production budgets in control. There is no reason why The Suicide Squad should've been in the top 3 most expensive R rated movies of all time. There is no reason why Birds of Prey should've cost 85 mill for a first outing
C) Make a world full of rich and interesting characters regardless of film's tone. And YMMV, I'm not saying there are no good characters in the DC or that no one likes them. But I'm being as objective as possible and the audience perception proof is there. Interesting characters with a personality that makes a movie interesting in watching? Pair that with even semi decent marketing and you get Joker and Aquaman. Dull, one-note looking characters with below average marketing? You get Black Adam.

WB also seems to want their cake and eat it too when it comes to the DCEU specifically. They want to give the filmmakers free reign, but that doesn't really work for the budgets they give out or for trying to do a shared universe. I don't think you have to be as strict as Marvel/Disney with it, but you need some level off…"conveyor-beltness" if you want anything like the MCU. And they keep hiring divisive creatives like Snyder, mediocre creatives like Jaume Collete Sera, or just expanding the relationship with people who haven't made a bonafide homerun film for DC like James Gunn (seriously look at the ratings and Cinemascore. Audiences don't really love TSS like that despite critic reception).
I get that people have their blinders on or their biases, but it's just sad at this point when the answers are pretty clear.

I hope they turn it around because I like DC characters way more than I like the non X-Men or Spidey characters. And I think another big gun on the block, SH or otherwise, would bring some positive competition which could help this quality rut I feel blockbusters are in.

But I've been hearing this since like 04-05. DC has been making plans on non Batman and Superman individual movies or crossover movies for at least half my life. And while at least now they're actually making the movies, they're just so much lower than what they can be imo. I don't really have much faith in what they're doing. But fingers crossed



But back to Black Adam box office…
 
Well, Deadline thinks Black Adam will eke out a small profit...

Dwayne Johnson ‘Black Adam’ Movie Stands To Profit: Here’s How – Deadline

Black-Adam-Chart.png


:hmm
 
Johnson's ego must be something else, because that whole article stinks of desperation.

I'm not usually this guy, but ''sources'' and ''someone who worked on the movie'' said??

The PR team cooked the books and called in a favor on this one.
 
Yeah, I saw The Rock's tweet about how he "checked with his financiers" to confirm that they've made a profit and he even compared it to the first Cap movie. LMAO! Wow. This is embarrassingly funny.
 
It’s all smoke screen. The previous article about the loss was on “theatrical run” while the deadline P&L is about everything. Many movies that book losses in theatrical run can turn into profits when other home revenues are included if those losses are that deep.
 
With all due respect to The Rock, Captain America First Avenger is just on a completely different level in terms of its quality and how it made people care about Steve Rogers as a character, and The Avengers also came out shortly afterwards and that also boasted Cap's profile heading into Winter Soldier.

People didn't come away from Black Adam with the same reverence for his character, and there is no Avengers type hit coming that Adam is going to be in.
 
they are not small things. They are so microscopic as to be irrelevant.

Im still surprised that people downplay what Social Media trends etc can do when the Snydercut exists.
So many good and bad things that happened due to social media attention, not sure why people in this case find it so unrealistic.

But okay, not my place to convince people otherwise...if they see it a different way, so be it.

With all due respect to The Rock, Captain America First Avenger is just on a completely different level in terms of its quality and how it made people care about Steve Rogers as a character, and The Avengers also came out shortly afterwards and that also boasted Cap's profile heading into Winter Soldier.

People didn't come away from Black Adam with the same reverence for his character, and there is no Avengers type hit coming that Adam is going to be in.

To be fair, he didnt talk about the influence etc the character had.
Just the Financial Aspect.
Its all either way a rather desperate attempt, but the hell with it, if it made profit then thats all that matters.
If that is minimal and a far cry from what people expected...matters little i guess.
In the face of the newest Rumors, this all could either way matter little...we will see.
 
I liked Black Adam, but I couldn't help but think this is exactly the type of movie people mean when they say they hate superhero movies...
 
They just shouldn't have spent $200 million on making the movie. It's as simple as that. 50 million or possibly even more less and this movie is sitting in profit now.
Maybe this is too much like Scorpion King but I also think it would've been way more interesting if this movie was completely set in ancient Kahndaq.

That could've been a major differentiator as a) we don't have that many superhero movie period pieces b) we definitely don't have one set in ancient Egypt/Persian influenced culture.

I think that would've made it stand out even if the quality was the same...although a period piece like that probably would've jacked up the budget
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
200,559
Messages
21,759,823
Members
45,596
Latest member
anarchomando1
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"