Breaking Bad - Part 14

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Well, Breaking Bad was like a morality play than anything else. The show was about actions and reactions, the consequences of decisions. And more often than not, it was in a more personal, even spiritual level. I think that's why the catharsis for us comes from the final fates the show have stored for the characters.
 
James said:
You don't say? :o

]If it doesn't interest you, ignore the discussion. We're interested, so we'll keep talking about it.
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Hit a nerve, did I? How is what I said not part of the discussion? The validity of the point of view is just as important as the interpretations of it.
 
I don't know man, he seemed like he was just giving out Life Pro Tips. I know annoyed. Annoyed was my friend. He is not annoyed.
 
Uh...yeah. I dunno, I'm not really the type of person to let my nerves be hit by something a stranger says on the computer.

Anyway. We were discussing whether or not various characters 'deserved' their fates. Under the law, certainly, most of the cast would be up for lengthy prison sentences. But morally speaking, I guess that comes down to each individual's personal view -and how much they liked each character. Mike was a loveable character, cared for his family, intelligent, he told that charming story about threatening an abusive husband -but this was only the side we saw. We can safely assume he'd done some pretty abhorrent stuff in his time. Which begs the question, does a character deserving to die in the eyes of the audience come down purely to perspective? If we're only shown the good things, as in the case of Mike, do we ignore the bad? If Mike had been a big jerk, we would have been happy to see him go, right? Yet his actions could (in theory) remain the same.
 
I guess what made the show great is that we are put in a situation in which we don't condone the characters actions, but we can understand them. Something that is a must in a show were the protagonist became the antagonist.
 
So, with the series now finished and some time passed to allow for hyperbole to settle, where would people place Breaking Bad in the pantheon of great TV shows? Although I personally wouldn't place it above HBO heavyweights The Wire or The Sopranos, I know there was talk of that nature around the finale.
 
It's still at the top for me, just slightly over The Wire.
 
I dunno, I'm not a huge Wire fan. I thought it was ok, but I won't ever watch it again. I've seen The Soprano's 3x, and I have no idea how many times I've rewatched this?
 
Right now I'm in the middle of the second season of The Wire and so far Breaking Bad is still above that show IMO.
 
The Wire is really good (except for the second season), but it lacks the rewatchability of Breaking Bad or The Sopranos.
 
The second season of The Wire has been pretty boring so far compared to the first season.
 
Lorus said:
So, with the series now finished and some time passed to allow for hyperbole to settle, where would people place Breaking Bad in the pantheon of great TV shows? Although I personally wouldn't place it above HBO heavyweights The Wire or The Sopranos, I know there was talk of that nature around the finale.
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I would put it pretty high, though not nearly as high as some people seem to. As wonderfully subtle as the series can often be, it does lean towards Hollywood-ish, especially with how the characters (particularly Walt) develop in rather over-the-top ways and some of the silly stuff that happens. Not that that is bad, per say, but there was a feeling at times that it was trying to decide between being a meditative character drama and a "**** yeah, Science, Mr. W!" mini blockbuster. Most will argue that it married these two perfectly, I'm sure, but I did feel disconnect at times, like when we're see the soul-barring consequences in contrast to Walt becoming Science **** Yeah McGuyver to solve a problem.

Was not a fan of how it ended, either. Not that I hold it as a big slight, and endings can be polarizing anyway (I think it's beyond stupid that anyone would think a final episode or final season would ruin a whole show). Didn't really care much for the final episode (final two, really) the first time I watched them, and upon rewatching I just found it all to be too...safe? Too by the numbers? Something about it lacked the ambitious or potent feel I think a good end should have to any work. I especially came to hate the line that so many raved about: "I did it for me." Gilligan going out his way to shred any ambiguity about Walt as a character and making him a closed box just didn't work for me.

Now, having said all that, I really did love the show overall. I honestly don't think there was a bad episode, which is saying a lot for a show that ran for 6 years. The acting was, for the most part, top notch, and the cast all seemed to have great chemistry, played off which other well. Though I prefer characters to develop more akin to something like Mad Men or The Sopranos, almost novel-like in their subtly, the more over-the-top developing in BB was, at least, very entertaining. Loved a lot of the cinematography, the way shots were repeated a lot through the series, and the dark humor was always delivered incredibly well. I'm not one to make top ten lists, but I could see BB being within that list. It's definitely a show that I'll rewatch at some point in the future and keep in general good regard.
 
Tron Bonne said:
I would put it pretty high, though not nearly as high as some people seem to. As wonderfully subtle as the series can often be, it does lean towards Hollywood-ish, especially with how the characters (particularly Walt) develop in rather over-the-top ways and some of the silly stuff that happens. Not that that is bad, per say, but there was a feeling at times that it was trying to decide between being a meditative character drama and a "**** yeah, Science, Mr. W!" mini blockbuster. Most will argue that it married these two perfectly, I'm sure, but I did feel disconnect at times, like when we're see the soul-barring consequences in contrast to Walt becoming Science **** Yeah McGuyver to solve a problem.

Was not a fan of how it ended, either. Not that I hold it as a big slight, and endings can be polarizing anyway (I think it's beyond stupid that anyone would think a final episode or final season would ruin a whole show). Didn't really care much for the final episode (final two, really) the first time I watched them, and upon rewatching I just found it all to be too...safe? Too by the numbers? Something about it lacked the ambitious or potent feel I think a good end should have to any work. I especially came to hate the line that so many raved about: "I did it for me." Gilligan going out his way to shred any ambiguity about Walt as a character and making him a closed box just didn't work for me.

Now, having said all that, I really did love the show overall. I honestly don't think there was a bad episode, which is saying a lot for a show that ran for 6 years. The acting was, for the most part, top notch, and the cast all seemed to have great chemistry, played off which other well. Though I prefer characters to develop more akin to something like Mad Men or The Sopranos, almost novel-like in their subtly, the more over-the-top developing in BB was, at least, very entertaining. Loved a lot of the cinematography, the way shots were repeated a lot through the series, and the dark humor was always delivered incredibly well. I'm not one to make top ten lists, but I could see BB being within that list. It's definitely a show that I'll rewatch at some point in the future and keep in general good regard.
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I think I fall into the same camp as you. I'd place Breaking Bad fairly highly in any list of great TV, but I think it ultimately lacks the ambition and, perhaps precision, of its competitors. I enjoyed the pulpy thriller aesthetic immensely and its model of escalating the stakes every season makes it probably the most exciting of the greats. However, during the later seasons I think it began to get caught up in the whirlwind of increasing conflict and ended up a less refined show as a result.

Surprised to see such a muted response to The Wire here though. That probably still holds the crown for me as the the most ambitious, engaging and successful show I've watched. Hands down the best dialogue too.
 
Tron Bonne said:
I would put it pretty high, though not nearly as high as some people seem to. As wonderfully subtle as the series can often be, it does lean towards Hollywood-ish, especially with how the characters (particularly Walt) develop in rather over-the-top ways and some of the silly stuff that happens. Not that that is bad, per say, but there was a feeling at times that it was trying to decide between being a meditative character drama and a "**** yeah, Science, Mr. W!" mini blockbuster. Most will argue that it married these two perfectly, I'm sure, but I did feel disconnect at times, like when we're see the soul-barring consequences in contrast to Walt becoming Science **** Yeah McGuyver to solve a problem.

Was not a fan of how it ended, either. Not that I hold it as a big slight, and endings can be polarizing anyway (I think it's beyond stupid that anyone would think a final episode or final season would ruin a whole show). Didn't really care much for the final episode (final two, really) the first time I watched them, and upon rewatching I just found it all to be too...safe? Too by the numbers? Something about it lacked the ambitious or potent feel I think a good end should have to any work. I especially came to hate the line that so many raved about: "I did it for me." Gilligan going out his way to shred any ambiguity about Walt as a character and making him a closed box just didn't work for me.

Now, having said all that, I really did love the show overall. I honestly don't think there was a bad episode, which is saying a lot for a show that ran for 6 years. The acting was, for the most part, top notch, and the cast all seemed to have great chemistry, played off which other well. Though I prefer characters to develop more akin to something like Mad Men or The Sopranos, almost novel-like in their subtly, the more over-the-top developing in BB was, at least, very entertaining. Loved a lot of the cinematography, the way shots were repeated a lot through the series, and the dark humor was always delivered incredibly well. I'm not one to make top ten lists, but I could see BB being within that list. It's definitely a show that I'll rewatch at some point in the future and keep in general good regard.
Click to expand...

So, to quote another notable Breaking Bad line, you thought Gilligan pulled a half measure. :word:
 
According to Gilligan, there was no ambiguity about Walt. Since the beginning the show was about this seemingly regular person who becomes a very bad person. You can see glimpses of it, there is a point in the show were you can see that Walt is clearly getting a personal satisfaction in the meth business, one that goes beyond his initial desire of helping his family. For example, because of the Gray Matter issue, we can see that Walt is resentful, he needs to be recognized for his achievements. And with being Heisenberg, he does.
 
Parker Wayne said:
So, to quote another notable Breaking Bad line, you thought Gilligan pulled a half measure. :word:
Click to expand...

Lol, maybe. I think one of the things that makes shows great and long-lasting is the ambiguity of their characters. What exactly did Tony Soprano really want? Did Don Draper really ever change? We could see the selfishness in his actions, we were shown this, but there was still room to interpretate why Walt did what he regardless of how bad he ended up becoming. But no, we have to be bluntly told that Walt did it for himself and only because he liked it. Though, one could argue that Walt is lying, but it'd be hard to argue based on the context of the scene and the rest of the stuff that happened that season, I think.
 
Man, I loved the whole stevedore thing. The characters, their struggle(s), I was hooked.

I'm not sure where exactly I'd place Breaking Bad on the Great TV List. Above Sopranos, below The Shield. The Wire is tough to compare because I enjoy it and Breaking Bad in very different ways.
 
For me BrBa has nailed every aspect of what I want from a tv show, it's got your gripping drama, clever writing, your black comedy, excellent cinematography, great actors, and a terrific score and soundtrack. And out of all the tv show endings, this one always felt right to me. A perfect closure to the series.
 
I don't think Walt sheds ambiguity in the finale. There were always dueling sides to his personality and his motivations, between the pragmatic benefit of his family and the selfish power trip. It is reductive to boil him down to one or the other, he was a complex mixture of both. You can see these in nearly every thing he did throughout the series, that most choices no matter how bad could justified to be some twisted and compromised altruism. Which Walt would of course always fall back on, never admitting that that wasn't the sole reason for why he did it. I read the "I did it for me" line as an admission of the part of himself he denied but what had been so obvious from the first episode, that he was kind of a bastard. It wasn't an apology but it wasn't a denial of the good intentions behind it all either.
 
Yeah, the way I see it is that Heisenberg was the person, Walt was the mask.
 
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