Breaking Bad - Part 14

[Mrs. Sawyer]

While I don't disagree with how you characterize the finale here, I kind of do disagree on how essential it ultimately was in the end. I think most of this was spoken through his actions, shown to us, throughout the series. I don't think the finale painting this for us so bluntly was needed, even if it made it more...finalized?

Possibly. Would you care to elaborate?

 

[Tyrell Wellick]

I disagree that Walt did not care for his family and my last post said it all, especially given the fact that Walt had given up the meth business for his family before Hank found out he was Heisenberg.

He gave up the meth business, cause chances were high that Skyler would break under the pressure of living without her children. Walter knew that things could not go on like that because at some point everything would have come out and he went for the safe way. He knew that Todd wont be able to cook as good as he did. Noone will match Heisenberg. I can guarantee you that if some other person would have started meth cooking with the same quality like Walter, he would have returned. He's too pride to let go of this. See the final, when he got angry regarding Jesse cooking for the Nazis.

I'll add another thing. When he goes to stroke Holly's head and saw Walter Jr for the last time, does that sound like a man who doesn't care for his family.

Let me say it this way, his family didnt come first for him. Do you really think he would have change everything, if he could? I dont think so. We have seen many proofs during the show, that Walter enjoyed his doings, and didnt really care about the consequences for his family. His desire came first.

 

[giveyourself12%]

Ozymandias was the episode that where he pays the full price. The guy witnesses his brother-in-law who despite being on opposite sides always tried to protect, loses most his money, and his family for the most part wants nothing to do with them.

The guy may have liked meth, and liked being Heisenberg, but he loves his family more. It may not have always shown, because he kept convincing himself he had to be Heisenberg in order to provide what's best for his family, when in truth he continued because he liked it. He wanted his cake and wanted to eat it to by providing for his family and cooking meth (though in 5th season Skyler finally got tired of it). But even at his worse as Heisenberg, he loved his family, and as the beginning of Ozymandias shown, he would have done anything to keep them out of harm.

It's why when Skyler shown him how much money he had, he realized he didn't have to be Heisenberg, especially when at the time, he didn't think he had any loose ends. It's why in Ozymandias, he tries to Skyler off the hook. It's the whole reason why he came back was to keep his family protected.

It's the reason why Walter White is a character who's fans opinions of him is so divded. Most of his reasoning for doing the worst things (Letting Jane die to get Jesse off Heroin, Poisoning Brock in a Batman Gambit to save his family, killing 10 witness because he hated lose-ends though he probably could have just continued paying them) was for his warped version of the better good.

The finale had emphasized that despite everything, despite all that happened, Walt in his heart is a family man first, not Heisenberg, even if he lost his way in the 5th season.

Beautiful post.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

He gave up the meth business, cause chances were high that Skyler would break under the pressure of living without her children. Walter knew that things could not go on like that because at some point everything would have come out and he went for the safe way. He knew that Todd wont be able to cook as good as he did. Noone will match Heisenberg. I can guarantee you that if some other person would have started meth cooking with the same quality like Walter, he would have returned. He's too pride to let go of this. See the final, when he got angry regarding Jesse cooking for the Nazis.



Let me say it this way, his family didnt come first for him. Do you really think he would have change everything, if he could? I dont think so. We have seen many proofs during the show, that Walter enjoyed his doings, and didnt really care about the consequences for his family. His desire came first.

And you don't see that as him caring for his family? Caring for the well-being of Skyler?

And about the second part, I've talked about this in an earlier post about his last scene with Skyler. He doesn't regret cooking. It's like what Sawyer said earlier in this thread. Sure, he would like some things to be different (like everything with Hank), but he doesn't regret cooking. It also doesn't he doesn't care for his family.

Walter is a complex character who Happy Jack said, was both a family man and selfish bastard. I don't think we can simplify his character the way both you and also I have done.

 

[Tyrell Wellick]

And you don't see that as him caring for his family? Caring for the well-being of Skyler?

And about the second part, I've talked about this in an earlier post about his last scene with Skyler. He doesn't regret cooking. It's like what Sawyer said earlier in this thread. Sure, he would like some things to be different (like everything with Hank), but he doesn't regret cooking. It also doesn't he doesn't care for his family.

Walter is a complex character who Happy Jack said, was both a family man and selfish bastard. I don't think we can simplify his character the way both you and also I have done.

I dont simplify the character, I'm just saying that "his desire (meth cooking, being the best at something, building an empire)" came first. We have seen too many proofs during that show that underlines this. There have been too many mistakes in his life, that's why he became so reckless during the show.

 

[hellblazer103]

walt's motivations/emotions were always very ambiguous to me. it always seemed like deep down he hated hank's guts and envied him ( the scene from season 2 when he forces walt jr. to drink and when hank tries to take the bottle away from him walt gets in his face is an example ) yet his devastation towards hank's death says otherwise. and it seemed like alot of what he said at the beginning of the phone call at the end of ozymandias was truly how he felt ("you know, you never believed in me ! you were never grateful for ANYTHING i did for this family ! " ) yet almost the entire time he's fighting back tears flowing down his face. one moment he's arrogant and downright sociopathic, the next moment he sems to feel total remorse. he's one of the most morally ambiguous characters i've seen really.

 

[DyeLorean]

walt's motivations/emotions were always very ambiguous to me. it always seemed like deep down he hated hank's guts and envied him ( the scene from season 2 when he forces walt jr. to drink and when hank tries to take the bottle away from him walt gets in his face is an example ) yet his devastation towards hank's death says otherwise. and it seemed like alot of what he said at the beginning of the phone call at the end of ozymandias was truly how he felt ("you know, you never believed in me ! you were never grateful for ANYTHING i did for this family ! " ) yet almost the entire time he's fighting back tears flowing down his face. one moment he's arrogant and downright sociopathic, the next moment he sems to feel total remorse. he's one of the most morally ambiguous characters i've seen really.

The phone call was basically Walt's way of letting the police know (he knew they were listening) that he forced Skyler all this time. He was trying to blame himself and nobody else, clearing her from any illegal activity.

As for that scene in season 2, I think he just wanted to be in control of the situation and his son.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[corby]

From reddit

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Fly had some freakin' cartoon comedic genious

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Vince: "How do you think we broke rules this year?"
Bryan: "Oh, we are bad. We were so bad."

 

[TheNextNolan22]

"Cheer up, beautiful people. This is where you get to make it right."

 

[Sawyer]

Growth Decay Transformatiooooooon!!!

 

[TheNextNolan22]

"And that's what you're gonna sell out for?! Pennies? Why?"

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I dont simplify the character, I'm just saying that "his desire (meth cooking, being the best at something, building an empire)" came first. We have seen too many proofs during that show that underlines this. There have been too many mistakes in his life, that's why he became so reckless during the show.

You said he loved himself and didn't care for his family. That's simplifying the character, not to mention he didn't always put his desire first. Him saving Jesse from dealers even though it would get him in hot water with Fring; Hank in season 4 and again in season 5.

Also, you mentioned that Walter was angry when he found out Jack was selling meth, but that's moot point considering Walt planned to kill Jack way before he found out about the meth when he talked about it in his last conversation with Saul.


Anyway, we're moving away from the main point of this, which is if the finale was too nice with the way Walter's story ended. I don't think it was too nice because Walter always staddled that line of moral ambiguity until season 5, and he paid the price by losing his brother-in-law, the respect of his family (along with the whole the Alberquerque community and others who didn't know he was a meth dealer), and his previous achievements with Grey Matter discredited on National TV.

Happy Jack said it best when he said multiple facets of the character were all put on display in the final episode.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Possibly. Would you care to elaborate?

Basically, I felt like all those things described was something shown through his actions throughout the series. We didn't need to really be told, "I did it for me" or anything like that in the finale. It felt a little too much like the writers were painting a big "Hey, see, he did it as much for himself as them, see, SEE!" It made it more final in that Walt finally admitted to it, but I don't know, I guess it just didn't feel as natural to me in the narrative as, say, when Vic had to do something similar in The Shield.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Ah. Part of me agrees with that, and part of me doesn't. I do agree that the whole 5th season itself was proof that he didn't need to say that because at that point it was obvious to us as an audience, but on the other hand, I find that scene to be a powerful scene. I think the scene was more for the charaters than the audience, though I wouldn't say it completely wasn't for us also. Both Bryan and Anna, nailed the acting in the scene.

I think Walt wanted Skyler to be more at peace at herself. He's never seen her so low, and that despite him not regretting cooking meth, I still think he felt guilty about what he had put her through. Also, for the first time in a very long time, he was honest to her, and for us as an audience, it was the first time in a very long time that we had seen Walt be so sincere.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well, I don't know about that. I think Walt was sincere about wanting to help Jesse out, right until the point he gave him up to the Nazis

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

To some degree, but he never got that chance to be sincere to Jesse since Jesse had no interest in meeting him after finding out Walt poisoned Brock.

 

[Sawyer]

[YT]m_KXbRqGJ7M[/YT]

WUT IS THIS, I DON'T EVEN...

 

[TheNextNolan22]

You saw that JUST now??

 

[Sawyer]

I only got the DVDs a few weeks ago.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Loser.