Fantasy Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 3

Funny that you bumped this thread.

Friday I started watching Buffy Season 5 for the billionth time. I never get tired of Glory.

Glory's a fun character but she never had that serious evil vibe Angelus, Spike, Drusilla and the Mayor exuded. Even after she did the brain thing to Tara.

It's amazing to see how the show evolved over the seven seasons.
 
Glory was my fave. The thing with Angelus, Spike and Drusilla for me is that they were great fun to watch, and certainly brought the personal drama, but I never found them legitimately threatening. The Mayor I did a little bit. But when Glory showed up at Buffy's house, I gasped. Like I legitimately feared for our heroine, in a way I never had throughout the show. And because of how unbeatable a threat she seemed to be, the last few episodes of the season were tensest I've ever been in terms of the stakes. That, plus I loved her ultimate motivation. It was jarringly human.
 
What I like About Glory is, she dont want world domination or end the world. She just wanna find a way back home.
 
I think Glory is probably the only Big Bad that truly never feared Buffy and she would have easily squashed Buffy if she took Buffy seriously.
 
I still love Darla's arc and feel it was perfect for her character, but agreed on the other two.

I don't think Fred's death fits the claim all that well either tbh, for a few reasons: It had nothing to do with the character/actor being pregnant for one, it was an excuse to give the actor a new role rather than write them out, and it was also a story-line cut short that would have would have likely seen Fred return in future.

Still a disappointing pattern though. The Cordy butchering is my big gripe with the show. She really went down hill, though I'd say earlier than Season 4. Things started getting weird in the back half of season 3.
 
Just finished Something Blue and Hush while I was on the treadmill.

Willow doesn’t do too well when relationships fall through. Kind of a dick move for Oz to clear out like he did though.
The whole Buffy/Spike thing didn’t appeal to me and I know from here they become a thing later in the show but eh. Spike is just comedic relief this season it seems. Him not being able to harm anyone is interesting but no one takes him seriously at all.

As for Hush, I really liked that episode. The silence was very cool and I like how it didn’t use subtitles so you had to really look at what was going on and read what they were saying. I also liked the brief nod to the guy selling dry erase boards for crazy prices. People love to turn a profit on a tragedy and this was no different.

The gentleman were so creepy, but I enjoyed them. I’d never heard of the fairy tale before if it’s actually a real one lol but I would’ve liked to know what they needed the 7 hearts for. Their henchmen in the straight jacket were creepy too. The gentlemen were so smiley! I think that’s why they stick with me.

Also, I wish they’d do more with Buffy’s premonitions. Maybe they will, I dunno. But I remember the big convo about them from season 3. Do most slayers have these visions? Seems like she has a little touch from the Powers That Be. Sorry, just saw them introduced on Angel lol
 
Just finished Something Blue and Hush while I was on the treadmill.

Willow doesn’t do too well when relationships fall through. Kind of a dick move for Oz to clear out like he did though.
The whole Buffy/Spike thing didn’t appeal to me and I know from here they become a thing later in the show but eh. Spike is just comedic relief this season it seems. Him not being able to harm anyone is interesting but no one takes him seriously at all.

As for Hush, I really liked that episode. The silence was very cool and I like how it didn’t use subtitles so you had to really look at what was going on and read what they were saying. I also liked the brief nod to the guy selling dry erase boards for crazy prices. People love to turn a profit on a tragedy and this was no different.

The gentleman were so creepy, but I enjoyed them. I’d never heard of the fairy tale before if it’s actually a real one lol but I would’ve liked to know what they needed the 7 hearts for. Their henchmen in the straight jacket were creepy too. The gentlemen were so smiley! I think that’s why they stick with me.

Also, I wish they’d do more with Buffy’s premonitions. Maybe they will, I dunno. But I remember the big convo about them from season 3. Do most slayers have these visions? Seems like she has a little touch from the Powers That Be. Sorry, just saw them introduced on Angel lol
Yeah, the premonitions are meant to be part of the Slayer package. She and Faith both had those shared dreams. You definitely haven't seen the last of them. My favorite episode of the entire show is kind of devoted to one, lol.

I was never on board with Buffy/Spike, either. Though to be fair, you've got a ways to go before they go there, and their relationship does evolve A LOT.

"Hush" is one of my favorite episodes of the show. It's funny though - Season 4 has a few of what I consider "series best" episodes ("Hush" being a big one), but the main season arc is one of their weakest, imo.
 
When I finish the season I will want to know what the other eps from season 4 are among the best for you

I wish you’d do a Buffy/angel episode countdown like your Hitchcock films
 
When I finish the season I will want to know what the other eps from season 4 are among the best for you

I wish you’d do a Buffy/angel episode countdown like your Hitchcock films
Dammit, I gotta finish that Hitchcock one. Thanks for the reminder. :argh: :oldrazz:

I’ll happily do a Buffy/Angel one, though. Hell I know the show so well I could easily do a Buffy top 10 just off the top of my head, lol.

As for my other faves in S4, let’s just say aside from Hush, you haven’t gotten to any of ‘em yet.:awesome:
 
Ok @ComicChick , this is for you (and therefore keeping the reviews as vague and non-spoilery as possible)!

FC's Top 15 Buffy Episodes Countdown (because 10 didn't seem like enough)


15.) "Lies My Parents Told Me" (Season 7, Episode 17)

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First let's get one thing out of the way: I LOVE the vampire flashbacks on this show. Regardless of the less-than-convincing period production values (or David Boreanaz's horrific "Irish" accent), the writing in these flashbacks often featured some of the best character work in the Buffyverse, and this episode is exemplary of that. If there's a such thing as "therapy at gunpoint," that's basically what this episode is for Spike. With out getting too spoilery for CC's sake, I'll just summarize by saying that someone is seeking revenge against Spike, has locked himself in a room with said vampire, and is playing a song that has been acting as a sort of musical "trigger" to bring out Spike's demon side in order to properly meet that demon and slay him for good. But in the process, through flashbacks we get to the root of why that song is Spike's trigger, and in the battle for his life, Spike actually gets to work through a lot of his issues. This episode explains a lot about why Spike is the way he is, and while some of it is played for laughs, it also gets pretty dark, twisted, and, well, sad. it's hard not to feel for Spike by the end of it. There's also the other plotline dealing with the matter of Buffy's position on all this, and as that plays out we see a huge moment that signals a change in her dynamic with certain members of the Scoobie Gang. This episode is basically a pseudo-sequel to another one of the episodes higher up on my list, as it shows certain major events featured in that episode in a whole new context. I generally find Spike to be one of the characters a bit overrated by the fandom, but I still find him interesting, and I can't deny, the episodes where he was the focus were series highlights. This is also the first of three episodes on my list either written or co-written by Drew Goddard, and considering he only worked on the show for one season, that's a pretty great track record, and the reason he quickly became one of my favorite Buffyverse writers. When he finally found breakout success in Hollywood several years later, my only thought was, "it's about damn time." There's a great little instance of bookending here with the line "the mission is what matters," that in context is just *chef's kiss* perfection. Beautiful, clever, tragic, poignant - all of the above.


14.) "Tabula Rasa" (Season 6, Episode 8)

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This episode ranks so highly for me for one simple reason: it's ****ing hilarious. This is hands-down one of the funniest episodes in the Buffyverse. It's sort of a spiritual sister/predecessor to an episode of Angel that came a year later ("Spin the Bottle") - the episodes were unconnected outside of their basic premise - but while the Angel one was written/directed by Joss Whedon himself and was also quite funny...this one is better. That basic premise is right there in the title: after one of Willow's spells goes wrong, all of our main characters get a memory wipe and become, essentially, blank slates (eg, what "Tabula Rasa" is Latin for). Watching them try to piece together the clues and figure out both who they are and what happened to them, constantly coming to horrifically wrong conclusions (while under attack by a gang of vampires, of course!), is absolute joy. The other thing this and the Angel episode have in common is that they both came during seasons that were widely considered the most depressing of their respective shows. So the comedy in both instances served as welcome reprieve from the otherwise dark and dreary plotlines. In the case of this episode, the timing was perfect as it directly followed the iconic musical episode, "Once More With Feeling," in which a bunch of stuff happened that left everyone in a funk. And so of course, in true Whedonesque fashion, when this show gets you laughing too hard at something, that means heartbreak is just around the corner to pull the rug out from under you. Sure enough, when reality inevitably comes crashing back down upon our heroes toward the end of the episode, it crashes hard. There are multiple gut-punches at the end of this episode, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
dont hide spoilers for my sake. i don't want to affect your awesome reviews! i'll look at the title, and if i haven't gotten to that season yet, then i will skip over until i get there

edit: and i take it you'll do a buffy and an Angel list?
 
Copy that!

And yes, I shall do a separate list for Angel.
 
So I realized my list will seem very Season 7-heavy at the moment, but do not be fooled! These are actually the last ones on here from that season, save for one. As I've mentioned before, aside from S1, the weaker Buffy seasons tended to have some of the stronger individual episodes, imo. Whereas two of the seasons that I consider two of the best will seem a bit underrepresented (but not absent!) on this list, largely because the overall arcs of those seasons were what made them so strong to me, and they just had straight runs of really strong episodes throughout.

13.) "Chosen" (Season 7, Episode 22)


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In my mind, there are generally two types of series finales - there's the type that goes for pure viewer satisfaction, giving the viewers everything they wanted (or in many cases, the things they didn't even know they wanted) and ties everything up in a nice, lovely bow, and then there's the type that goes for a bit more ambiguity and aims to challenge the viewers and/or leave them thinking long and hard (either in frustration or intrigue) about what it all means long after the credits roll. I enjoy both types, and thankfully, the Buffyverse was kind enough to give us one of each. Angel went the second route, doing the whole "cutting to black in the middle of a scene and making people mad" thing well before The Sopranos did. And to be honest, I prefer Angel's finale overall to this one, but I'll go into more detail into why I love that finale so much when I get to my Angel list. But of the two, this is the one written/directed by Joss Whedon himself, and it's largely the reason I knew The Avengers were in good hands when he was hired for that gig in 2010. Because Buffy's finale goes out with as much of a full-on Traditional Hollywood Blockbuster Bang as any show on the WB in 2003 could've possibly ever hoped to do. All the characters get their nice touching goodbye scenes and glory moments and we get our big climactic spectacle that's far more epic than anything the show had produced previously. Of course, there are a couple of moments that don't sit well with me (one major death in particular feels like The Obligatory Whedon Death that's only there because he felt was expected of him), but in the grand scheme, I found this finale immensely satisfying. Not only do the most of the characters get great, poignant conclusions to their arcs, and not only are there multiple rousing, fist-pumping moments, but Buffy has always been about the metaphor, and I can't think of a more fitting thematic metaphor to cap off this show than Buffy & Co. empowering a whole new generation of Slayers around the world. This was always a coming of age saga first and foremost, and we got to see Buffy go through the heartbreak of first love, graduating and surviving high school, discovering the isolation that comes with the freedom of college, losing her parent and being forced to become an independent adult, declaring her own agency free of the patriarchy she'd been subjected to, becoming responsible for the care well-being of another person, battling depression, and finally, becoming a leader and inspiring the next generation of heroes. The closing line of "What do we do now?" and the smile that crosses Buffy's face when she hears it is a moment I think a lot of us can relate to when we reach that certain moment in our lives when we realize, despite whatever hell we've been through, that we've still got the world ahead of us, and we're just getting started. Also, shout out to Robert Duncan, the composer on this episode. Previous series composer Christophe Beck (best known now for his work on Ant-Man and Frozen), did some fine scores on the show, but Duncan's work on this episode was so rousing and epic I still often hear his music from the final battle in promos for other things, which is rare for TV scores. Buffy the Vampire Slyer had its ups & downs, including in this final season, but it was a hell of an epic journey, and this finale somehow managed to live up to it.

12.) "Selfless" (Season 7, Episode 5)


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I said I loved the flashback episodes, and that includes not just vampire flashbacks, but demon flashbacks as well! Anya was always my favorite side character on Buffy, so her FINALLY getting her own spotlight episode after 4 seasons on the show kinda made me predisposed to love this. But the fact that it was so well-written and executed (the 2nd Drew Goddard-scripted episode on the list) made it an instant fave. This season, after having her heartbroken by Xander in S6, Anya has become a vengeance demon again. At the start of the episode, we see she's been responsible for a grisly massacre, and despite being hailed by her demon friends, is feeling remorse for her actions for seemingly the first time. Buffy & Co. learn what she's done, and despite Xander's protests, Buffy decides she has no choice to but to kill Anya. All throughout the show, Anya's status as a former vengeance demon has always been treated as a gag. And to be fair, it's been a funny one. But this is the first episode to really take into account what that really meant for her and treats her decision to go back to it with the seriousness it deserves. This is the first time they really explored the nature and consequences of that vengeance and the personal cost it takes on the person doling it out. By going back to the origins of how she got into vengeance, we get to the root what makes Anya tick. And tragically, that means realizing that for centuries, she has defined herself through other people (primarily men) and has never known a proper sense of self, hence the title of the episode. The title of the episode takes on multiple meanings, as Spike is dealing with similar existential issues, as a lost soul going mad at the bottom of a basement, losing his own sense of self as he grapples with his newly-acquired soul. The other added meaning of the title here is that in order to undo the horrible damage she has done, Anya is finally prepared to make the selfless move - to sacrifice her own life and bring back those innocents she killed, but her demon boss D'Hoffryn thinks that to be too easy, and takes the life of her demon BFF as payment instead, so that Anya must live with the consequences. Consequences are a big theme here, as Xander feels personally responsible for what Anya has become, and of course, the whole reason Spike's soul madness is that he's facing the consequences of his previous demon life as well. What I love about this episode beyond the powerful themes is the character interactions. There's a lot of what I feel is meta-commentary on the handling of previous storylines, with characters calling out other characters on things that, frankly, were a long time coming and may have been poorly handled previously by the writers - Anya calling out the fact that the Scoobies, her literal ONLY friends on Earth, had barely taken notice of her 'til she murdered a bunch of people, or Buffy calling out Xander for his big lie all the way back at the end of S2 where he did not pass along Willows message about restoring Angel's soul, and instead told Buffy that Willow said "kick his ass" (THANK YOU, DREW GODDARD! That had bugged me for seasons!!!!), and Buffy laying out the difference for Xander between people like Spike and Angel who were murderers because they lost their souls when demons took over their body, and someone who CHOSE to become a murderous demon again, knowing full well what it entailed, now needing to face the consequences of their choices. The debates the characters were having over this situation felt real and long overdue. The other unique thing I adore about this episode was the style in which the flashbacks were told. These were not your straightforward flashbacks like we get in the vamp-focused episodes. While they contain a lot of pathos and darkness, they are still told in an offbeat, quirky, cartoonish way that was just so very Anya. And Anya is joy. Even when she's miserable, or potentially evil.
 
Anyone know if Boom Studios having the Buffy/Angel license means they’ve got the rights to Fray too? Because that book is in dire need of a new edition.
 
So I started watching this again this past week while home from work. I’m about 12 episodes in on both.

Buffy knows who Riley is And he knows who she is. Well I think it was pretty funny that he had no idea what a slayer was. (Thrash band). I really liked the contrast where Buffy explained this was a life time commitment for her and how it was just fun for Riley. He’s kinda arrogant in a way so I like that she’s stronger, faster, more experienced than him.

When Giles was turned into a demon and got out of the car just to chase Walsh, it was pretty great.

Was nice to see Hawkeye the evil Puritan vampire again. Kinda thought he could’ve been interesting enough to be a more than one episode villain. I like that Kate knows and how she put Angel in his place, it did the right thing at the end.

The last two episode I watched of angel are a bit odd. Expecting and She. They definitely are my least favorite episodes of the season so far but at least they have the Angel dancing montage. Even if it was just a daydream. Wesley is back around. Replacing Doyle I’m sure. Had Quinn not had his issues I wonder if Wesley was still going to be coming back in the capacity he is.

If nothing else, I learned Angel is an awesome artist lol.
 
Buffy knows who Riley is And he knows who she is. Well I think it was pretty funny that he had no idea what a slayer was. (Thrash band). I really liked the contrast where Buffy explained this was a life time commitment for her and how it was just fun for Riley. He’s kinda arrogant in a way so I like that she’s stronger, faster, more experienced than him.
That's just the beginning of Riley's less desirable qualities, imo.

I agree Jeremy Renner's character on Angel should've been used for more episodes. Hell, he could've made for good S1 big bad if they had only played their cards a little differently. Oh well. I really like that they went in a completely different direction with Kate than I had expected when she first came onto the scene.
 
I liked how kate surprised me too. Curious as to where she got her research books though lol

and Penn sneaking into the precinct during the meeting with the police was pretty cool too. He could’ve done way more damage though
 
I still watch Buffy after all these years, it holds up amazingly well. Season 5 is currently airing, all hail the glistening, glittering Glorificus.

After watching the whole series many times I'm saddened they never answered the most burning question of the entire series, what the hell was up with the cheese guy!:D



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So I just started the episode with faith waking from the coma. She was having dreams/nightmares of Buffy chasing her down with the knife. I already know I’m looking for symbolism and hints of the future here so I’m trying to put good attention.

Adam has woken up and killed Walsh. I don’t know why but it bugged me every time Buffy called the Professor Maggie that episode. Like ten times lol. I don’t ever remember her calling her that.

Riley’s still bland. Forrest seems jealous. And the hints about Adam and Riley being brothers sounds a little interesting. Maybe. Riley’s not really interesting lol.
Adams interaction with the boy is a total nod to Frankenstein right?

I’ve also caught up on angel. Kate’s dad just died and the flashbacks with angel and his family and his lovely Irish accent are back lol. the episode with the ethros demon was interesting twist. I remember liking the twist about the boy being more evil when I saw it way back when.
 
So I just started the episode with faith waking from the coma. She was having dreams/nightmares of Buffy chasing her down with the knife. I already know I’m looking for symbolism and hints of the future here so I’m trying to put good attention.

Adam has woken up and killed Walsh. I don’t know why but it bugged me every time Buffy called the Professor Maggie that episode. Like ten times lol. I don’t ever remember her calling her that.

Riley’s still bland. Forrest seems jealous. And the hints about Adam and Riley being brothers sounds a little interesting. Maybe. Riley’s not really interesting lol.
Adams interaction with the boy is a total nod to Frankenstein right?

I’ve also caught up on angel. Kate’s dad just died and the flashbacks with angel and his family and his lovely Irish accent are back lol. the episode with the ethros demon was interesting twist. I remember liking the twist about the boy being more evil when I saw it way back when.

Ooooh, you're onto an awesome two-parter, CC! :up: The Faith dreams definitely contained a lot of foreshadowing, mainly for S5.

And yes, that Adam moment was definitely a Frankenstein nod. With Adam in general, I feel like they leaned a little far into the Frankenstein homage for their own good. And I say that as someone who considers Frankenstein one of her all-time favorite books.

I don't like a whole lot of Angel S1, but that twist with the evil kid was inspired.
 
I’m in the middle of the two-part faith eps now and I’m really enjoying them. Some of the better parts of this season so far for me.
I always enjoyed Faiths interactions with Joyce. Weren’t very many but I liked their dynamics. I think Joyce knows she’s a broken girl and faith kinda hates that Joyce doesn’t see her as a monster like she wants.
I wonder how much fun Sarah and Eliza had playing each other.
 

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