Fantasy Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 3

[Shinobi Shaw]

I’m just like.... wow.

Joss your chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It’s good to see the cast finally coming out in full force, though. I don’t recall them backing up Charisma like this before.

While at times I can understand general complaints about cancel culture and stuff, I think it is important to note that the recent shift in the tide in allowing people to speak out, has lead to an environment that makes people more comfortable doing just that. How is that not a good thing?

 

[Kev4000]

Im really sad to read those statements. I know, I should be proud of the cast to come out with the truth but that my most favorite show I grew up with and (its not
exaggerated) characterize me a lot being a ******** behind the scenes destroys me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Im really sad to read those statements. I know, I should be proud of the cast to come out with the truth but that my most favorite show I grew up with and (its not
exaggerated) characterize me a lot being a ******** behind the scenes destroys me.

It's alright Kev, we got you.

 

[TheFuture]

I said in the JL forum that Michelle's words have left me so sad. To think of what she went through with the fan base back in the day (I include myself in that, me being a dumb teenager not liking change and all)....just the thought of Joss adding to that by treating a kid badly on set is just too much.

As Shinobi put it best to leave it at saying the chickens have come home because I'll probably be banned if I said what I really thought right now.

 

[Slick]

Damn Sarah Michelle Gellar showed her support on Twitter now. Good for all them for speaking out. I will always respect Joss for giving me Buffy and Angel and the first two Avengers films but man I will never stand for any kind of abuse.

 

[henzINNIT]

What happened to Charisma Carpenter has always been a black eye to Whedon's reputation and while she didn't say a whole lot of new information here it is still damning to see it laid out and in more detail. A real bitter pill to swallow that so many young women who were designed to be idols, and who were to me, could have suffered trauma 'for the art'. Through all of the horribleness of these allegations, I do hope there is some catharsis for Charisma for being heard and publicly supported on a level we haven't seen before. And for the others too of course. It's bittersweet to see these ladies together again in solidarity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If there is anything good to come from all this, it is that we now know how brave a lot of these people are. There is no changing Whedon's part in bringing Buffy to life, but that also applies to everyone else, including these courageous women.

 

[SiegePerilous]

This is disappointing as a BtVS/AtS fan, but I'm glad Carpenter's statements have finally gained support after it had been an open secret in fandom for years. Benson and Trachtenberg are surprising, the latter's statement is especially disturbing, but it's great to see them all support each other.

Ever since the Kai Cole letter came out, I'd been saying that if Gellar ever said something, as the actress of his best creation and main reason he has the "feminist" reputation as a writer, it'd be a big nail in his coffin. People have criticized her statement as non-committal, but I think even what she said is pretty damning. Other co-stars like Emma Caulfield and David Borenaz liking the comments is small, but speaks volumes.

 

[Silvermoth]

Of course I stand with charisma, I feel so ashamed how many times I suggested Joss for comic book movies before I knew about all this. What charisma was talking about was genuinely awful and I’m certainly not going near a joss property again

 

[Mani-Man]

This is disappointing as a BtVS/AtS fan, but I'm glad Carpenter's statements have finally gained support after it had been an open secret in fandom for years. Benson and Trachtenberg are surprising, the latter's statement is especially disturbing, but it's great to see them all support each other.

Ever since the Kai Cole letter came out, I'd been saying that if Gellar ever said something, as the actress of his best creation and main reason he has the "feminist" reputation as a writer, it'd be a big nail in his coffin. People have criticized her statement as non-committal, but I think even what she said is pretty damning. Other co-stars like Emma Caulfield and David Borenaz liking the comments is small, but speaks volumes.

Boreanaz is a bit of a surprise, doesnt he too have a less than flattering track record? Something about cheating on his wife with a fan or so? Wasnt there something?

Anyway, cool to see that the cast is turning against Whedon, it feels like many were pretty quiet over the years maybe because they felt like they own it to Whedon for their careers or so.

To me the worst is seeing Michelle Trachtenbergs statement, because she didnt had it easy.
The fandom wasnt kind to her back in the day, and even now the fandom has often a tough stances on Dawn.
Having this ****ing bully around too, making things hard for her...makes me super sad.

Does whedon still own the rights to buffy? I hope not, would be a shame.
There is so much life left in the franchise, no need for it to die because whedon is scum.

 

[batdude]

This is disappointing as a BtVS/AtS fan, but I'm glad Carpenter's statements have finally gained support after it had been an open secret in fandom for years. Benson and Trachtenberg are surprising, the latter's statement is especially disturbing, but it's great to see them all support each other.

Ever since the Kai Cole letter came out, I'd been saying that if Gellar ever said something, as the actress of his best creation and main reason he has the "feminist" reputation as a writer, it'd be a big nail in his coffin. People have criticized her statement as non-committal, but I think even what she said is pretty damning. Other co-stars like Emma Caulfield and David Borenaz liking the comments is small, but speaks volumes.

Yeah. Carpenter was kind of known, but SMG and especially Trachtenberg were the big surprises. Don't know if Whedon is done but this looks horrible.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Boreanaz is a bit of a surprise, doesnt he too have a less than flattering track record? Something about cheating on his wife with a fan or so? Wasnt there something?

Cheating on your wife and abusing your power to create a hostile work encounter are 2 different things. Im sure that half the cast aren't perfect angels but doesn't excuse Joss going 3 for 3 on Buffy/Angel (Cheating, abuse of power, hostile work environment)

Disney owns Buffy but Joss will always get credited and paid for it for whatever is produced. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the final nail in the shows coffin and that any form of revival/reboot is doa.

 

[Mani-Man]

Cheating on your wife and abusing your power to create a hostile work encounter are 2 different things. Im sure that half the cast aren't perfect angels but doesn't excuse Joss going 3 for 3 on Buffy/Angel (Cheating, abuse of power, hostile work environment)

I dont remember the whole story with Boreanaz, might be abuse involved but dont quote me on that.
For that i remember too little.

Dont get me wrong, i dont excuse Whedon at all...not for a second.
Maybe i worded this wrong, i dont want to say that they both are equally as horrible people.
What Whedon did is far worse.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought Boreanaz’s problem was that he just couldn’t keep it in his pants. He was constantly cheating on his wife, not necessarily being abusive? But again, correct me if I’m wrong.

And I really hope Michelle Trachtenberg gives details about her experience. A grown man bullying/harassing a 14/15 year old girl is just unacceptable. I’m sure SMG did her best to shield her, they’ve been tight since the All My Children set.

Still can’t believe Joss asked Charisma if she was going to keep her baby. Smh.

 

[Mani-Man]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought Boreanaz’s problem was that he just couldn’t keep it in his pants. He was constantly cheating on his wife, not necessarily being abusive? But again, correct me if I’m wrong.

And I really hope Michelle Trachtenberg gives details about her experience. A grown man bullying/harassing a 14/15 year old girl is just unacceptable. I’m sure SMG did her best to shield her, they’ve been tight since the All My Children set.

Still can’t believe Joss asked Charisma if she was going to keep her baby. Smh.

Could be yeah, i might mistake him for someone else where Abusive tactics were involved.
Something about him promising a role on his show for sex or something, but again...i could be wrong.
I dont want to make accusations here if he "just" cheated on his wife.

Yeah thats really messed up.
Who would ask a woman even if she keeps the baby? Or who fatshames a pregnant woman, that is so messed up.

 

[henzINNIT]

I know this isn't the biggest factor in all this, but something that has always bugged me about the whole Cordelia/Charisma pregnancy situation is: The show had already written the character out. Cordy had "ascended" and could not be reached, so if real life pregnancy interfered with the story you had planned next she could have just hung around there a little longer and you do it later. Season 4 has a few episodes of disembodied Cordelia face in the clouds, and while I have no doubt that is not ideal, that would have kept her around in a capacity more fitting for a pregnant woman.

 

[TheFuture]

From what I can remember Boreanez got married quite young. Not that it's an excuse for cheating but they probably both entered into something before they were ready.

No doubt he's a dick for doing it repeatedly but at the end of the day he was, and the women he had affairs with, were consenting adults.

 

[DarkKnight88]

From what I can remember Boreanez got married quite young. Not that it's an excuse for cheating but they probably both entered into something before they were ready.

No doubt he's a dick for doing it repeatedly but at the end of the day he was, and the women he had affairs with, were consenting adults.

Cheating in Hollywood? 99% of Hollywood would be cancelled for that.

 

[henzINNIT]

Problem with David's horn-doggery is in the context of this toxic environment, suddenly you have a bunch of really young ladies around older men and it is creepy af.

I shudder to think if Eliza Dushku has any more skeletons in her closet after experiencing trauma before landing Buffy.

 

[henzINNIT]

Tony Head commenting on it

Buffy star "gutted" after Whedon toxic behaviour claims

 

[SiegePerilous]

Cheating in Hollywood? 99% of Hollywood would be cancelled for that.

Yep. When we live in a world where Armie Hammer is a cannibal, we are lucky if cheating (while crappy) is all he did.

Boreanaz was sued for sexual harassment a decade or so ago by an extra on Bones, but it was settled out of court. So I think consensus is 50/50 on him being guilty or if it was someone taking advantage of the bad press surrounding his affair to get money out of him Nothing else before or since from what I've seen, so I kind of hope he is innocent. Mostly because Angel is a top 5 character and I'd hate the actor ruining things. But if more happened, it should come to light.

But either way, skeletons in his closet or no, he seems to get along well with Carpenter and Gellar and has seemingly no love for Wherdon, so it's not surprising he's backing them (albeit more passively than I think he should)

 

[Sithborg]

Michelle Trachtenberg Says Joss Whedon Wasn’t Allowed To Be Alone With Her On Buffy Set

So, Trachtenberg had one more bit to add to her statement, which she says will be the last. There was a rule that Joss was not allowed to be alone with her. Which... can only be for career endingly bad reasons.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Just marking this as a spoiler for those in this thread who haven't finished the shows and considering what we know now about Joss...

Spoiler

I can totally see him writing Dawn's character into a wall out of spite because of whatever happened between him and Trachtenberg behind the scenes. If he did it to Charisma/Cordelia, I can see him instructing the writers to take it out on her too in the later seasons.

But I would hope she had a chaperone or a parent on set regardless. This is Hollywood, no underage kid should be on a set alone with whomever.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I feel like that mustve happened pretty early on since he wasnt around much for S6 and I dont think as much in S7 as he was in S5.