Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

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Having just watched all of Doyle's episodes, I don't think he was ever portrayed as being a borderline alcoholic. There were a few references to him drinking a lot, but not enough to suggest that he was addicted. Plus, episodes like "Beer Bad" and "Something Blue" make a pretty clear argument against abusing alcohol.

As did Willows arc at the end of season 6, even if it was shrouded in Metaphor.

As for Glen Quinn being kicked off because he wouldn't stop the drugs... Well it's horrible if it's true. His death was such a tragedy, and makes the two times in the latter years of the show that they revisit him all that more upsetting :(
 
Having just watched all of Doyle's episodes, I don't think he was ever portrayed as being a borderline alcoholic. There were a few references to him drinking a lot, but not enough to suggest that he was addicted. Plus, episodes like "Beer Bad" and "Something Blue" make a pretty clear argument against abusing alcohol.

You don't have to be addicted to alcohol to have a problem, and if someone was in my circle of friends who drank like Doyle did, I'd say they had a problem with alcohol.
They made it an amusing part of his character that he drank to excess, and drank a lot.

edit: If you want to read into it like a lot of people do with these kinds of things, you could say that Doyle was using the booze to escape from the reality that he was part demon. It would actually have been an interesting way to go in the series, but they played it for laughs. If you use alcohol to escape from reality, it is a problem.

Just because they did a couple of so-so episodes in Buffy dealing with alcohol abuse, does not mean they didn't play with the Irish stereotype that Irish people get drunk all the time and it isn't an alcohol problem because they are Irish and that is what Irish people do.

edit: and I always thought it was very clear that the season 6 arc with Willow's addiction to magic was dealing with issues of illegal drug addiction, not alcohol. I mean, you know this already, anyone can ascertain this if have watched the episdode 'Wrecked', as she goes to a dealer's house, and y'know, gets pretty damn tripped out.
Marti Noxon said she based all all of that on a friend of hers who was addicted to drugs.
 
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You don't have to be addicted to alcohol to have a problem, and if someone was in my circle of friends who drank like Doyle did, I'd say they had a problem with alcohol.
They made it an amusing part of his character that he drank to excess, and drank a lot.

edit: If you want to read into it like a lot of people do with these kinds of things, you could say that Doyle was using the booze to escape from the reality that he was part demon. It would actually have been an interesting way to go in the series, but they played it for laughs. If you use alcohol to escape from reality, it is a problem.

Just because they did a couple of so-so episodes in Buffy dealing with alcohol abuse, does not mean they didn't play with the Irish stereotype that Irish people get drunk all the time and it isn't an alcohol problem because they are Irish and that is what Irish people do.

edit: and I always thought it was very clear that the season 6 arc with Willow's addiction to magic was dealing with issues of illegal drug addiction, not alcohol. I mean, you know this already, anyone can ascertain this if have watched the episdode 'Wrecked', as she goes to a dealer's house, and y'know, gets pretty damn tripped out.
Marti Noxon said she based all all of that on a friend of hers who was addicted to drugs.

As I said, though, I don't really think they portrayed Doyle as a heavy drinker. There were a few offhand references and one or two instances of him actually drinking (one of which was after he had a vision, perhaps suggesting that he was using it to cope with the pain of receiving them) but nothing to really imply that he had a real problem.

I can't reply to what you said in your edit because I didn't read it once I saw "Season 6 arc" in case it had any spoilers - so sorry if you made any other points in there.
 
Him :cwink: And it definitely did shock me. I didn't really think he was going to die until he actually did.

On another note, "Hush" was amazing. The idea of having an entire episode with almost no dialogue was ingenious, and the Gentlemen were creepy as hell. One of my favourite Buffy episodes so far...just brilliant.

This is a Joss Whedon show, expect the unexpected!

Yeah, Hush is fantastic, it and Earshot are the eps I'd show to people to convince them of the series genius, it's many peoples favourite ep and it certainly makes my top ten

Guess who's back in Sunnydale?:woot:

DIRTY GIRLS

The Good;
Faith back in Sunnydale, what could be wrong?
The Bad;
What a shame this is the ep they get Nic Brendon to comment upon, with all the other great Xander centric eps he's been in. Again, Caleb doesn't finish them, he just lets them run?
Best line;
Xander; "Everything has eyes" (Oh dear)
Women good/men bad;
I don't think I've ever felt such visceral hatred for any villain as I do for woman-hating Caleb. I want to crush his skull in my bare hands. At least the nerds were funny and the Mayor charming and polite (for the most part).
Jeez!;
Caleb torturing Shannon, Molly and Colleen killed, Xander maimed.
Kinky dinky; (I may just have to extend this subject now Faith's back)
Xander dreams of threesomes with nubile teenage potentials and the rest pillow-fighting in their skimpy underwear. Of course the reality of living in a house filled with teenage girls is not quite so sexy (to my shame I didn't get the leg-cramp gag first time around). Faith puts the moves on Spike. Scott Hope. Angel, Riley, flirting with Giles and now Spike, the girl just can't help it, she's always stealing Buffy's boyfriends. Faith talks of dressing up as a horny cheerleader (Bring it on?), naughty nurse and sexy schoolgirl for her past lovers. Mayor Wilkins? Wesley? She's also quite ok with the sight of Spike's chains "Each to their own". Her phrasing is quite ambiguous "I used to run with this guy who liked me to dress up as a schoolgirl then take this bullwhip...". Now does she mean she whipped him or he whipped her? Or maybe they took turns? To judge by her later comments about 'looking up the guy with the bullwhip', having had enough all female company for a while, having been the toughest girl in a woman's prison for the last 3 years it seems inevitable that she was the one being whipped. Remember we've seen her self-harming a couple of times and the naughty schoolgirl is invariably the one being punished in S&M scenarios (probably be the strict schoolmistress if she was doing the whipping?). "If you can't beat them..." Spike comments that the schoolgirl thing is old hat which may be a subtle dig at Britney Spears and the outfit Buffy wears to seduce RJ in Him. One popular fan theory is that Faith is referring to Spanky who Angel meets in the frist ep of Angel Season 5 and who likes to spank women and certainly has a bullwhip. (If you like the idea of Eliza Dushku with a whip check out this scene from Dollhouse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCOGkxg_QA now if you'll excuse me I need to sit down) Faith seems pleasantly suprised that Buffy has had a wild affair with Spike, maybe not so stuffy after all?
Captain Subtext;
Obvious tension between Dawn and Faith, one wonders if Dawn always resented this rival for Buffy's affections or liked her only to feel betrayed when she went evil? Faith notes of Dawn 'Brat's all woman sized'. Note when Xander and Kennedy are hurt it's Xander Willow goes to rather than her girlfriend. Xander's fantasy has the girls being with each other as well as him and loads of sapphic sex-play between them. Faith says she's "had her fill" of all female relationships in prison. The choir girl The First poses as for Caleb to stab is very reminiscent of Darla in 'Inside out'. Buffy seems jealous that Faith has been inside Angel's mind which she wasn't able to do in Earshot. Andrew cries at Xander's speech. Spike still very anti-Angel, getting a soul didn't change that!
Guantanamo Bay;
So, is Buffy's plan rash or sound? Hard to say, she's right that they just can't sit around waiting and now that they have Faith it might be the time to go on the offensive.
Scoobies to the ER;
Xander and Rhona very badly hurt
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 4

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy and Spike
Buffy: 22
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 6
Tara; 1
Spike; 3
Kennedy; 1
Kills: 1 vamp for Faith plus her kills from her appearances on Angel.
Buffy: 125 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 19 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 11 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 16, goodbye Molly. Also Colleen who was one of the girls from Xander's threesome fantasy.
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe, Molly, Jonathon.

Sunnydale deaths; Molly and Colleen
107

Total number of scoobies: 35 or so, there now seem to be about 20 Potentials plus Faith. However no Anya whatsoever and no one even comments upon it. No Vi either.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew, Faith plus an indeterminate number of potentials.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: I think we can safely add Bullwhip guy to Faith's total?
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:3 ;Xander, Riley, Bullwhip guy
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Plenty of fic elaborating on Faith's stories of dressing up as a naughty nurse, horny cheerleader and sexy schoolgirl who gets whipped. Spaith also a pretty popular pairing. Willow and Faith's drive to Sunnydale also common, normally featuring them both apologising to each other for their evil deeds then stopping off at a motel for a night of lesbian sex. Fillow?
Questions and observations;
Spike says he reformed long before Faith did, no he didn't! He didn't truly reform until season 6 whilst she turned herself in by season 4. Caleb says that the Bringers DON'T serve Satan meaning the First isn't the Devil. But is he kidding himself? Amazed they let them use the Star Trek refs although I'd always thought Faith's dagger looked very Klingon. You feel sorry for Buffy losing her job, she obviously loved having something normal in her life. People are fleeing Sunnydale, a clear sign that this is the end for the town. Why not just shoot Caleb? I would suspect that the Potentials would be far too young to remember Falcon Crest.
Nic Bredon lists his favourite eps as OMWF, Hushed, The Body and Restless, all firm fan favourites
Marks out of 10; 8/10
EMPTY PLACES

The Good;
Spike and Andrew's road trip, the girls shaking their stuff at the Bronze.
The Bad;
So harrowing watching Buffy cast out after all she's been through. Again why doesn't Caleb take Buffy prisoner or something when he knocks her out? Anya says Buffy is 'luckier' than everyone else to be the Slayer but it hardly seems to be much of a prize? The Hellmouth influenced cops also seem a very handy contrivance.
Best line;
Rhona (on Buffy leaving) "Ding dong, the witch is dead!"
Dawn; (rounding on her) "SHUT YOUR MOUTH!" (about time someone slapped Rhona down!)
Women good/men bad;
More misogyny from Caleb
Jeez!;
Hardest thing to watch is Dawn telling Buffy to leave (as she states, Revello Drive is her home too). Equally the scenes between Willow and Xander in hospital are so sad. Faith get's some nasty beatings although Angelus claims she's actually still looking for someone to beat the evil out of her.
Kinky dinky;
Anya refers to her and Xander's break-up sex to the Potentials, Faith reminds everyone she had him first. Speaking of which Faith starts putting the moves on Wood, who if not a boyfriend Buffy was attracted to and had at least one date with. Caleb speaks of the 'sweet pleasure of taming Buffy' which is odd phrasing for a guy who claims to abhor women especially in the sexual sense.
Faith flirts with the cops who've come to arrest her, she must have a thing for the uniform (and maybe the handcuffs, nightsticks and fast cars?) as we've seen her do this before in Bad Girls ("I like him, he's butch"). Interestingly she later refers to Buffy as a cop even after recieving a thorough nightsticking and punch on the jaw.
Captain Subtext;
Giles hints that Buffy's partiality for her vampire boyfriends costs lives, alluding to Jenny Calender. Spike and Andrew bond on their road-trip over bar food. Spike threatens to bite Andrew which he has done before. With Willow away Kennedy chooses to dance with Dawn at the Bronze. Dawn seems to have lost her antipathy towards Faith and they seem tight from now on.
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy and co have a long talk about how they're not a democracy, that it takes one strong individual leader to be effective.
Scoobies to the ER;
Faith nastily bashed up but Slayer healing takes care of it all.
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 4

Scoobies knocked out: poor Buff
Buffy: 23
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 6
Tara; 1
Spike; 3
Kennedy; 1
Kills:
Buffy: 125 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 19 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 11 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 16,
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe, Molly, Jonathon.

Sunnydale deaths;
107

Total number of scoobies: 35 or so. Anya back but no Vi again. We never ever actually get to see all the recurring potentials (those with names and dialogue) together until the final ep.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew, Faith plus an indeterminate number of potentials.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:3 ;Xander, Riley, Bullwhip guy
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Caleb's phrase 'the sweet pleasure of taming Buffy' makes you wonder if he reads Mr X/conquered superheroines fanfic? Read an interesting fic once where we discover that Caleb's mother was Slayer who was sired and he was forced to kill her as a young boy as she tortured him. It was very well written, actually made you feel sorry for this screwed up monster.
Questions and observations;
It's Dawn who makes the breakthrough regarding the mission, her junior Watcher role really coming along, Giles even teaching her like his pupil. Andrew wears the same football helmet as Dawn wore when she rode on Spike's motorcycle (is it Hanks? I can't imagine Joyce, Buffy or Dawn playing American football?). Faith stops Amanda drinking alcohol at the Bronze, already adopting the leadership role. Last appearance of Clem on the show although he's back in the comics as Harmony's 'friend'. If you can't pierce the UberVamps sternum with your stake why not stab then upwards under the ribcage so you don't have to? Holy Water does affect them (Showtime)but not as much it does ordinary vamps. SMG hoarse again, both as Buffy AND The First. The SDPD have changed their uniforms but not their cars. Actually I would rate Jaws 3D as the second best in the series although a LONG way behind the fabulous original. Buffy doesn't want to talk about Xander not because she doesn't care but because she finds it too painful. Note Buffy doesn't actually object to Faith taking the girls to the Bronze, she just doesn't want them drunk and fighting.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
 
I read recently that a Buffy/Angel writer would be working on the new series of Torchwood, anyone know who that might be?

I'm not so sure Doyle was an alcoholic as just a guy with problems who often drank, his issues seemed to be more reconciling his demon and human halves rather then his addiciton. The whole thing is tragic for both character and actor made all the more so by Andy Hallet's untimely death from heart failure after the series ended. A bit more of this and they're going to start talking about the 'curse of Angel'.

Still, on a lighter note, here's the best Angel ep EVER!:yay:

ORPHEUS
The Good;
Fabulous, the wonderful flashbacks and Faith and Willow working together with AI, just amazing!
The Bad;
All too wonderful for anything like that. A bit stupid that they put Ally's name in the opening titles, spoils the suprise of her appearance somewhat.
Best line;
Faith; "Dust in the wind. Candle in the wind. There'll be a general wind theme"
plus
CC; "Oh sh...!"
and flapper "Pound snow you mook!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
2 headed foetal pigs? Yuck!
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage: Angel chained up at the end
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Faith in a coma, again! Gunn knocked out by Connor
Cordy: 15
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 5
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+4 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 13 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC, Connor, Faith

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 1
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly The Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
CC accuses Connor of liking the way Faith 'cracked her whip' and thinks he wants to be in her 'leather clad lap'. Wes tells Willow about having a woman chained in a closet, she seems more intrigued than shocked. Angelus refers to keeping Faith's thighs warm. CC and Connor's relationship is described as 'icky'. Faith says of Connor 'Break me off a switch, there's going to be a whipping!". Angelus refers to 'eating' his mama!!!!
Captain Subtext;
Willow describes Connor as handsome and androgynous, hmmmm? Plenty of Fred/Willow subtext, even Wes gives a little look when Willow strokes Fred's chin, especially when Willow asks 'What's Fred's story?' and speaks of 'The call of Fred'. Fred wants to discuss Baachanals with Willow. However she later tells Fred 'I'm seeing someone' by which she means Kennedy back in Sunnydale. Faith calls Angelus 'princess'.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Not much fic on this ep itself but quite a lot on Willow and Faith's drive back to Sunnydale which must have been a pretty awkward trip. They normally go along the lines of Faith apologising for what she's done followed by Willow forgiving her and explaining her own dark deeds. Then they stop at a motel and have a night of lesbian sex. After all, Willow says that she 'got a Slayer' out of helping Angel Investigations.

Missing scenes;
According to the commentary we have an extra scene where Faith and Angelus see Angel discovering the Hyperion? Why not include that on special edition DVDs?

Questions and observations;
Willow makes her 3rd appearance on Angel. This is actually quite momentous as it means she's actually the 2nd most prolific character in the Buffyverse. Angel is number 1 with 167eps (57eps of Buffy and 110 eps of his own show), Willow is 2nd with 147eps (144 eps of Buffy and 3 appearances on Angel) and Buffy herself is joint 3rd with 146eps (144 eps of her own show and 2 guest slots on Angel not counting archive footage taken from Buffy or the movie) with Cordy who also has 146 appearances (57 eps of Buffy and 89eps of Angel). Then comes Xander with 143 eps of Buffy (he's in every ep of Buffy except 'Conversations with Dead People'), Giles with 123 eps of Buffy, Spike with 120 (97 eps of Buffy and 23 of Angel) and Wes with 107 (6eps of Buffy and 101 of Angel).
I'm sure most Xena fans will recognise Adrienne Wilkinson who played Xena's daughter Livia/Eve as the flapper whose dog Angel saves. Met her at a convention once and she's beautiful and charming. Gina Torres, another Xena/Hercules alumni will turn up in a few eps time and Orpheus is the name of an early Xena ep.
The flashbacks help us track the various stages of Angel through the years. They basically fall down to;
1. Post resouling daze; (as seen in Darla)
2. Try to get back with Darla in Peking;
3. Coming to America; ('Orpheus')
4. Brooding loner; (up until the events of 'Are you now or ever have been?')
5. Hedonism aka The Manilow Years; (up until feeding on the guy in the doughnut shop in Orpheus)
6. Street tramp; (up until meeting Whistler in Becoming pt2)
7. Sunnydale
CC refers to Willow as Glinda, the good witch from The Wizard of Oz (Cordy herself doing a good impression of the Wizard behind the screen). If you haven't seen Wicked go immediately, it's great and you'll never watch TWOO the same way again. What a shame we never get Barry Manilow to guest star as he did on Will and Grace. Gunn once again tells Connor off, once again playing the father role to him. The guy who walks past Angel in the doughnut shop may have been doing cocaine and that's why his blood is racing. With the exception of flashback this will be the last time we see Angelus begging the question is he actually gone for good after Angel and Angelus' epic face off in the dreamworld.
Maybe I've been watching too many Michael Jackson tribute shows but everytime I see the 1920s sequence with it's flappers and zoot-suited fedora wearing wiseguys playing dice outside the speakeasy I keep expecting them to break into 'Smooth Criminal'?
Marks out of 10; 10/10 Faith AND Willow in the same episode of Angel, makes you want to cry with happiness! Rewatched this one 4 times! I know I previously said 5 by 5 was my favourite but actually this is my favourite although the Wes drops the knife bit is still my favourite moment ever

PLAYERS

The Good;
I like this ep, nice to see that Gunn isn't just 'The Muscle', he's suave as well as tough. The best Gunn-centric ep and you could see J. August as James Bond. Love Gunn's little look when Wes goes 'Well the last time this happened..."
The Bad;
Quite humdrum in places, actually drags a bit
Best line;
Gunn describes the last few months of AI as a 'Turgid supernatural soap-opera'.
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; the little girl isn't in danger, Gwen has screwed Gunn over
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 5
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+4 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 13 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC, Connor,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 1
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Packing heat; Wes with his shotgun again
Wes; 9
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Gunn and Gwen, Gunn presumably not only having sex with her but taking her virginity if he's the first person ever able to touch her?
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Lorne refers to a female friend Wanda as a 'peach'. Gwen in her customary tight PVC outfits. Wes explains his tryst with Lilah to Fred, he was lost and cut off from those he loved as indeed was she.
Captain Subtext;
Gwen calls Fred a babe and honey, obvious tension between the 2.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;

Plenty of demon pregnancy fanfics, a subsection of fanfiction called GOT-fic, beautiful women being ravished and impregnated or sometimes consumed ('Vore') by monsters, aliens, mutated plants etc (think Princess Leia and Jabba the Hutt, The Evil Dead or Alien vs Predator; Requiem). Also of course Willow having sex with snake demon in the comics. Plenty of fic out there where Gwen joins AI or if the original gang is destroyed helping the new champion form their team or she (and the Groo) show up to save everyone from everything

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Only a few weeks after becoming a dad Angel is now faced with becoming a grandfather! 'Dramarama' is referred to, an old supernatural British kids TV series which Joss Whedon may have seen growing up in the UK. 'Clash of the Titans' also referred to. Angel and Wes refer to 'The last time' CC got supernaturally knocked up both in Expecting and Epiphany. 8 million people in LA, didn't think it was that big. Not only did Angelus not kill Lilah he never actually killed anyone but a vamp? Andy Hallet in the titles, hooray! The last time we'll see Gwen whom was obviously supposed to be a possible regular but they went another way. A pity but at least we see her in the comics. For my money after this ep I figure she goes to see her parents and catches up on a lifetime's worth of hugs. Gunn's love of suits foretells season 5. We see Angel's photgraphic memory again. CC refers to the Fortress of Solitude, Xander's influence again. At what point does Angel twig CC's betrayal?
Marks out of 10; 7/10 a lightweight ep but probably what we need after all the power of the last few eps
 
I haven't watched the earlier seasons of Angel in years but wasn't his excessive drinking balanced out by him needing to drink a lot more since he was half demon?
 
I haven't watched the earlier seasons of Angel in years but wasn't his excessive drinking balanced out by him needing to drink a lot more since he was half demon?

Do you mean in a physical or emotinal sense? That being half demon he requires more alcohol to get wasted than a normal human or that the anxiety it creates within him makes him wish to drown his sorrows more?
 
Do you mean in a physical or emotinal sense? That being half demon he requires more alcohol to get wasted than a normal human or that the anxiety it creates within him makes him wish to drown his sorrows more?

I meant the bolded, though I'm sure the second was also true to some degree.
 
Wow, "This Year's Girl" was a great episode and had one hell of an ending. I didn't expect to see Faith this season, but I'm glad she's back.

Season Four has been pretty good so far, but its overall arc isn't reaching the greatness of Seasons 2 and 3. While the Initiative and Riley are pretty cool, Adam - so far, anyway - is just a solid concept with poor execution. He also doesn't have any emotional resonance to make his appearances pack a punch. With Angelus in Season 2, you had the pain of Buffy having to fight the man she loved; with the Mayor in Season 3, you had Faith's downward spiral. With Adam, he's just a big monster that Buffy has to kill. He doesn't have any ties to the emotional character arcs that are developing, at least not yet. Hopefully I'll warm to him as the season draws to a close. I'm still enjoying Season 4 a lot, anyway.
 
Wow, "This Year's Girl" was a great episode and had one hell of an ending. I didn't expect to see Faith this season, but I'm glad she's back.

Season Four has been pretty good so far, but its overall arc isn't reaching the greatness of Seasons 2 and 3. While the Initiative and Riley are pretty cool, Adam - so far, anyway - is just a solid concept with poor execution. He also doesn't have any emotional resonance to make his appearances pack a punch. With Angelus in Season 2, you had the pain of Buffy having to fight the man she loved; with the Mayor in Season 3, you had Faith's downward spiral. With Adam, he's just a big monster that Buffy has to kill. He doesn't have any ties to the emotional character arcs that are developing, at least not yet. Hopefully I'll warm to him as the season draws to a close. I'm still enjoying Season 4 a lot, anyway.

Yeah, Joyce AND Faith in an ep, you just can't go wrong. And the best things is that the second ep in this story is even better!:woot:(and take my advice and keep watching the Angel eps alternatively to the Buffy one's:cwink:)

Into the final 3!

TOUCHED

The Good;
Wonderful scene between Faith and The Mayor/First, so great to see him back. Buffy finally bests Caleb and some Buffy and Spike scenes to set the Spuffer's hearts aflutter. Oh and everyone has loads of sex
The Bad;
I know Spike's trapped in the mission but what about Andrew, surely he can pop out, get a paper? What does Caleb want with the scythe, what good is it to him? Surely the Scoobs must realise that the Bringer will tip off The First allowing it to set the trap?
Best line;
Buffy (tearfully); "I don't want to be the one" does she mean the Slayer or just alone?
but I do like;
Wood; (of The First) "It was just trying to find your Achilles heel"
Faith; "No it just talked to me. It does a heel thing too?" (once this Twilight business is over I think it's night classes for you my dear)
Women good/men bad;
Interestingly Caleb refers to 'brute strength' just before Buffy wipes the floor with him. It's a very female concept, he has strength and speed but she's agile and intuitive, able to anticipate his every move. Once again Buffy shows her strength as a general, playing to her strengths and turning his power to her advantage.
Jeez!;
Giles slits the Bringer's throat
Kinky dinky;
Xander and Anya have ice cream sex on the kitchen floor, Faith plays 'ride'em cowgirl' with Wood, him succumbing to her charms by saying "You're the leader"
Captain Subtext;
Buffy says that she and Spike were never close and he only wanted her as she was unattainable. But actually the sexless scene between her and Spike falling asleep in one another's arms is the closest they've ever been. Note both Faith and Wood lost their mother at a young age, his mother was a Slayer and now he has sex with one whilst her attraction to him has the same 'Electral' (is that how you put it?) elements as Buffy's. Kennedy says she's going to give Willow 'Screaming joy' and 'Unrestrained moaning'. Obviously thinks a lot of herself in the sack, maybe it's the pierced tongue? She also says she'll 'tether Willow down'. She must be pretty impressive as Xander and Anya can hear Willow moaning all the way down in the kitchen. A nice little moment between Faith and Giles when he praises her leadership, just as with Wes in the Angel-'souless'-arc, Watcher and Slayer finally as it always was intended to be. Faith says it's 'been a while' when she seduces Wood, implying since she's had sex or been with a man? Faith admits to Wood that Wilkins was like a father to her. Then she beds Wood, another older man authority figure with a dark side and possibly demonic essence.
Guantanamo Bay;
Torturing the captured Bringer and then Giles slitting his throat in cold blood.
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 4

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 23
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 6
Tara; 1
Spike; 3
Kennedy; 1
Kills: 2 Bringers for Kennedy who seems the best fighter of all the Potentials by some way. Another Bringer for Giles and one each for Vi, Kennedy and Faith
Buffy: 125 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 3 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 19 vamps, 6 demons, 4 humans.
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 11 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 3 humans+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons
Vi; 1 human

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies: possessed Andrew
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2
Andrew; 1

Recurring characters killed: 16,
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe, Molly, Jonathon.

Sunnydale deaths;
107

Total number of scoobies: 35 or so. Again, despite the house teeming with Potentials no Chao-Anh but Vi is back.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew, Faith plus an indeterminate number of potentials.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: Faith beds Wood and Willow and Kennedy finally get it on
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:4 ;Xander, Riley, Bullwhip guy and Wood.
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 3;Oz, Tara and Kennedy
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Kennedy; 1 Willow
Wood; 1 Faith
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;

Questions and observations;
Amanda during the opening argument very reminiscent of Willow during Buffy's 'intervention' over Angel's return in Revalations (in fact Amanda AND Vi are very reminiscent of season 1 Willow in many ways). Dawn very much in the junior Watcher role now and seemingly a confidant for Giles (the closest thing to Buffy for him?). Buffy feels bad about how she's treated the gang saying she cut herself off and always did. Does the First tell the truth when it takes a form? Everything it says comes true just not in the way people think. What is Caleb's agenda? He wants to rid the world of sin yet allys himself with the First Evil? Or does he just want to destory humanity as he's so disgusted in them?The fight scenes very Matrix like, Buffy even doing Neo's backward flailing move. The First yearns to be able to touch once more, is that it's eternal punishment, to never be able to feel the flesh? To walk amongst the living yet not know life? Check out Xander's little turn to the camera as the rest are talking, for a moment you almost think he's going to turn traitor (like Wes in WITW)

Marks out of 10; 8/10
END OF DAYS

The Good;
Even the most ardent Spuffer must cheer at the sight of Angel's return.
The Bad;
The First says once the Hellmouth has opened it will enter all humanity. But wasn't it already there? DB's name in the opening credits, will they ever learn?
Best line;
Faith; "Thank god we're hot chicks with superpowers!"
Buffy; "Takes the edge off"
although I also like;
Caleb; (indicating the scythe) "Unless you can prise that out of solid rock" (Buffy effortlessly does just that) "Darn!"
Women good/men bad;
The Guardians have been looking out for Slayer all this time, protecting them from the male domination of the Watcher's Council (who in fairness do have female members?). Whilst it's fine for Angel to help Buffy out in her final battle with Caleb it's important that she defeats him herself, Buffy isn't the damsel who needs to be rescued, she's the heroine and she beats him on her own terms.
Jeez!;
Anya has the possibly the worst bedside manner ever. Also the poor potential being ripped apart by the Turok-Han and the Guardian's neck being broken.
Kinky dinky;
Willow comments that 'Scythe matters'. Do we count Caleb and the First as sex? Faith comments that Wood doesn't lack for stamina. Spike says that he and Buffy have done things he 'Can't even spell'.
Captain Subtext;
Buffy seems more than a little upset that Faith has bedded Wood. Buffy remarks to Spike that she doesn't need him to be defensive and send mixed signals because 'I have Faith for that'.
Guantanamo Bay;
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 4

Scoobies knocked out: Faith by the explosion, Dawn by Xander then Xander by Dawn
Buffy: 23
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 17
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 4
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 7
Tara; 1
Spike; 3
Kennedy; 1
Kills: 3 Turok-Han for Buffy
Buffy: 128 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 3 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 19 vamps, 6 demons, 4 humans.
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 11 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 3 humans+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons
Vi; 1 human

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2
Andrew; 1

Recurring characters killed: 17, alas Miss Kitty Fantastico, we knew her. No wonder Dawn warned Kennedy about messing about with crossbows!
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe, Molly, Miss Kitty, Jonathon

Sunnydale deaths; 3 potentials gone although none are recurring characters
110

Total number of scoobies: 35 or so.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew, Faith plus an indeterminate number of potentials.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:4 ;Xander, Riley, Bullwhip guy and Wood.
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 3;Oz, Tara and Kennedy
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Kennedy; 1 Willow
Wood; 1 Faith
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Common theme in fic is that no matter what befalls the Slayers the Guardians are there to save them. Also when Buffy and Faith finally kiss and make up they do a lot more than just talk.
Questions and observations;
Spike mentions The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch which Monty Python's Arthurian Knights used to finish off the killer rabbit. Bet Anya's a fan! Kennedy is quite the leader with Faith down for the count. For a little while you wonder if Xander is actually going to go evil, little looks and things he says like 'Guess so' when the others suggest going to help Faith. I wonder if the whole kidnap Dawn sequence was filmed out of series, that we were supposed to think he had turned evil? Anya comments that she never makes reckless wishes, certainly not with D'Hoffryn out to get her. Buffy says that she loves her friends but ultimately has to stay alone. Faith ventures that she and Buffy always clash because there's only meant to be one Slayer at any one time.
Wouldn't Xander want to take Anya with him if he's splitting town? The First as Joyce told Dawn when the end came Buffy wouldn't choose her and in a sense that's what happens here.
Spike says he's never been close to anyone, presumably not even Dru but then he didn't have a soul, he could only love 'Quite well'.
In her letter to Dawn Buffy tells her that 'Everything I do is for you', Dawn is the reason for the entire Buffyverse. For a moment at the end you think Spike is going to turn into Iago as he watches Buffy with Angel whilst being goaded by The First as Buffy (just as you thought Wes might in WITW when he sees Gunn and Fred). Is this where Spike finally realises that there's no future for him and Buffy? Despite all they mean to each other?
Marks out of 10; 9/10 would get that for Angel showing up alone!

Oh my god, this is nearly it, after 143 eps I'm nearly there, one more ep to go. Bottle of Bollinger Champagne waiting in the fridge which I shall drink as I watch it. Tonight's the night.
 
I think you epitomise how most people feel about season 4, it doesn't compare to 2 and 3 but is still worth watching, Adam isn't a great enemy, the show works best in high school and CC and Angel are gone and haven't really been successfully replaced yet. But it does get a whole lot better

INSIDE OUT

The Good;
If nothing else the evil CC versus Darla is so powerful it would get this ep an 8 by itself. But AI versus Skip is also great.
The Bad;
The spell seems to require extremely little blood, if they'd just cut her arm they could probably have had enough.
Best line;
Skip; "Well that ain't right!" (as Wes puts a bullet through his brain)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The sacrifices' pleading is just HORRIBLE, she reminds you of Dawn held hostage by Glory ("I just want to go home") but there's no Buffy coming to save her (although in fairness the PTBs do try their best). Can't watch them killing her, this poor girl.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; Connor doesn't save the sacrifice. For once Wes' guns actually work.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Angel, Wes, Fred and Lorne all knocked out
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 1
Kills; 1 vamp for Connor, one demon for Wes
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 13 demons+4 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 14 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: possessed Angel and Connor
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations: Connor and CC out
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: Wes catches a ricochet from his own pistol
Angel: 12
Wes; 2

Packing heat; Wes uses his 45's again, he must be a hell of shot to stick one right in Skip's brain.
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Fred refers to 'whipping' and 'spanked'. Naked Gina Torres plus naked CC doing her Lizzie Borden impression (well Manny wanted to die having a lapdance).
Captain Subtext;
Note Fred's little 'Nice suit' comment when Gunn comes back to the hotel, it IS a nice suit but there's obviously some jealousy there
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Poor Connor, boy he's put through the wringer in this one. Connor doesn't want to believe it's Angel, Skip refers to Buffy. So, is the vision that appears to Connor the real Darla brought from the afterlife by the PTBs or is it the First Evil who doesn't want Jasmine mucking up it's plans? Either suggestion is perfectly valid. So how much has AI been manipulated all these years? Shades of classic Dr Who. Angel's attempt to kill CC is reminiscent of Buffy killing him in Becoming pt2

Marks out of 10; 8/10

SHINY HAPPY PEOPLE
The Good;
Gina Torres is great. Certainly this is an ep that turns things on it's head!
The Bad;
Just because Jasmine's true face is ugly is that any reason to presuppose she's actually evil? I mean Lorne is pretty unconventional looking but he's a good guy?
Best line;
Fred; "There's been too much dismembering going on in that basement recently!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Jasmine's true appearance and severed head bowling.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 1
Kills; 3 vamps and 1 demon for Angel, 1 vamp and 1 demon for Wes, 2 vamps for Connor
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 58 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil: not so much evil as happily enslaved
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: possessed Lorne, Gunn, Fred and Wes
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations: CC out of it until season 5, Connor back in
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Connor

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes;2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Like the way you can spot CC's Sunnydale High cheerleader trophy in her room. Note that Angel now wears a lighter coloured shirt now he's no longer haunted all the time. The bowling scene is reminiscent of Fright Night pt2 (which features Buffy alumni Brian Thompson).
Well, Angel throws us another ball from leftfield, not so great in itself but speaks of interesting things to come.
Marks out of 10; 6/10
 
And so it ends....

CHOSEN
The Good;
All of it, it's all wonderful. If I was to select 2 scenes I would have to say Vi slapping Rhona and Dawn saving Xander.
The Bad;
None, too wonderful for that. Buffy's cookie dough analogy is silly but it's probably meant to be.
Best line;
I'm sorry if I'm a sucker but I just love shy little mouse Vi coming into her own;
Vi (slapping and shouting at a badly wounded Rhona to keep her conscious) "LOOK AT ME! THIS IS NOTHING! STAY AWAKE! THIS IS NOTHING!"
also like;
Dawn; (kicking Buffy on the shin for trying to send her away) "Dumbass"
Buffy; "If you get killed I'm telling!"
and one for the Spuffers (or not?)
Buffy; (to Spike) "I love you"
Spike; "No you don't. But thanks for saying it" (just as Cassie predicted)
Women good/men bad;
Buffy shares her and Faith's power with thousands of girls all over the world. The Shadowmen created only one Slayer so that they could control her. They can't do that any more. Especially like the battered fat girl standing up to her abuser and the little girl on the baseball plate flooded with confidence replacing her nerves.
Jeez!;
Caleb has to split. And may God have mercy on his soul if he has the stomach! Love the spray of blood, very graphic. Speaking of blood the girls cut their palms again which seems a common thing on Joss' shows.
Kinky dinky;
Faith thinks all men think of her purely in a sexual way. Wood says he wasn't impressed by her sexual performance which outrages her but I suspect he's just teasing to get a rise out of her and try to reach her emotionally. Buffy suggests that Spike and Angel settle their differences with a wrestling match and that some form of oil could be involved, an idea that get's her visibly aroused. When Buffy is making her cookie dough analogy she says she's looking for someone to "Eat m...enjoy me". Joss in his commentary speaks of avoiding portraying Buffy as the '**** queen of ****tonia' by not being able to choose between Angel and Spike. Is that why in the comics she fantasises about being dressed as a sexy nurse and chained between a naked Spike and Angel? Joss says we had no more Buffy/Spike sex in season 7 because he didn't want his heroine to willingly have sex with her rapist (but Tara arguably did?). Who are Luke and Laura?
Faith refers to sex as 'Getting bouncey'. She know's she's hot and thinks she has 'mad' sex skills. She offers herself to Wood who actually turns her down just as Wilkins did. And maybe it's at this point that she thinks he might be a keeper, a man who just doesn't think about her just sexually?
Captain Subtext;
Plenty of jealousy for Angel over Buffy and Spike even if Buffy states categorically that Spike is not her boyfriend (good thing she didn't go into detail about her and Spike getting to fifth base that time on the balcony at the Bronze). Faith's low opinion of men suggests she may be better off with female partners. Spike seems a little too quick to agree to Buffy's idea of Angel and him oil-wrestling. Wood thinks he's pretty which is a weird thing to say. Wounded Buffy handing the scythe to Faith finally settles everything between them. It actually gets passed around between the Slayers which is a nice metaphor. Spike compares himself to Liz Taylor.
Spike dreams of 'Drowning in shoes'. Buffy later says she craves shoes and Spike will later move to LA where as CC commented there are a huge number of shoes.
Guantanamo Bay;
Xander suggests Anya uses Andrew as a human shield
Scoobies to the ER;
Rhona and Wood badly hurt
Missing scenes;
Again to judge by Joss' commentary loads of extra footage left over. Would especially have liked to have seen Buffy's nostalgic walk through the school.
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 4

Scoobies knocked out: Angel, must add that to his total in my Angel reviews
Buffy: 23
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 17
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 7
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 4
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 7
Tara; 1
Spike; 3
Kennedy; 1
Kills: Buffy kills Caleb, good for her! I'll give every Slayer 5 vamps and rest 3 kills
Buffy: 133 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 11 humans, , 1 spirit warrior & a robot- so this gives Buffy 215 kills in all
Giles: 10 vamps, 2 demons, 4 humans/1 god- so 16 kills for Giles
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human-11 kills
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 werewolf, 1 zombie- 5 kills
Faith: 24 vamps, 6 demons, 4 humans- 34 kills
Xander: 8 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 3 humans-15 kills
Anya: 2 vamp and 1½ a demon+1 human-5kills
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons-25 kills
Spike; 16 vamps and 7 demons+1 human-24 kills
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 4 vamps + 1 demon- 5 kills
Kennedy; 3 humans+6 vampires-9 kills
Amanda; 6 vampires
Woods; 8 vamps and 2 demons-10 kills
Vi; 1 human+5 vamps- 6 kills

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2
Andrew; 1

Recurring characters killed: 19-goodbye Amanda, by far my favourite of the Potentials, loved her to bits. And goodbye Anya, a bit character in season 3 who became a huge part of the Buffyverse. I think Joss realised the fans would never forgive him if he killed any of the core four (Buffy, Will, Xander and Giles)or Faith and if Dawn died it would be no victory for Buffy. We expect Wood or Andrew to die but instead he defies our expectations and kills Amanda who we were starting to love and Anya whom we already did, we had to pay some price for victory. I always wondered if Rhona made it until she turns up in the comics. Chao Anh does make it, you can see her walking around beside the bus at the end, don't know about Criadad (the Potential from Xander's threesome fantasy who re-occurs in a couple of other eps).
Frankly I think everyone could have died and it would still have been a victory as long as Dawn made it, that would still mean the good guys won. But I'm so glad that Buffy and Dawn get to walk off into the sunset hand-in-hand with most of their Scooby friends/family following.
In total this means on Buffy we lose one regular or recurring character killed every 8 eps or so, I'm not sure if any other show was ever so ruthless in killing off it's main cast. To all those who played their part and gave their lives for the greater good and those they loved.
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe, Molly, Jonathon, Miss Kitty, Amanda, Anya
And as for Spike...?

Sunnydale deaths; about 20 potentials plus Anya.
130

Total number of scoobies: The first refers to 30 potentials so I figure about Scoobs 20 left?
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Giles, Kennedy, Vi, Rhona(?), Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew, Faith plus an indeterminate number of potentials.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:4 ;Xander, Riley, Bullwhip guy and Wood.
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 3;Oz, Tara and Kennedy
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Kennedy; 1 Willow
Wood; 1 Faith
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 10 finally gets what Willow means about Kennedy's pierced tongue.
What the fanficcers thought;
Some great stuff here. Lovely one where after the final battle Dawn finds the letter Amanda left for her, telling her that she loved her, that Dawn is to have a long and happy life and that Amanda will wait for her in heaven. It ends with Dawn kissing the letter then setting it on fire, explaining to a baffled Faith that it's the only way she could think off to get her kiss to Amanda. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3019594/1/The_Circle
If you like your fic a bit more adult there's a good one where Xander is lying in bed mourning the loss of Anya in the final battle but Buffy, Faith, Dawn, Willow and Kennedy all join him for some group sex to make him feel better. Then Willow slips him some magical viagra and the fun really begins! http://www.t-s-s-a.com/stories/show-story.php?story=Buffy-WhyDoWeWriteThis09.txt
All time favourite has to be The Last Scooby where an elderly Dawn is the last survivor of the Sunnydale gang, a contented grandmother surrounded by her numerous, loving family. She dies in her sleep and is reunited with Buffy, Joyce and everyone she ever loved in heaven, everyone young and beautiful again and in each other's embrace forever. But is she the last Scooby? Who is the white-haired, immortal witch crying tears of sorrow and joy over Dawn's peaceful body? http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3111892/1/The_Last_Scooby
Also a nice one speculating where the actors will be ten years after the show, James Marsters having joined a monastery, Emma Caulfield in prison, Michelle Tractenberg a presidential contender with Britney Spears as her running mate, Amber Benson on CSI;Nebraska etc http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3111782/1/Where_are_they_now
And if you ever need a happy ending to any darkfic you've ever read; http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4643199/1/The_Rape_of_Buffy (don't be fooled by the title)
Questions and observations;
There's another (presumably inactive) Hellmouth in Cleveland which is where Buffy was based in the alternate reality in The Wish. Did WR&H wish to not only defeat the First but trap Spike in case he's the vamp with the soul their prophecy speaks off? But Lindsey got there first.
Dawn refers to herself as Watcher Junior. Joss was going to bring Tara back? The new SDH is rather a bland building compared to the old. Despite all his self-doubt over the years Buffy entrusts Xander with Dawn, the most precious thing in the world to her.
The Turok-Han seem a lot easier to kill now but maybe the first ones were their killer elite and maybe the scythe has given the Slayers an extra power boost. That may also be why Buffy can laugh off her sword wound. The baseball girl is SOOOO young, I thought Slayers at least waited until they were in their teens. The First mentions Joyce when goading Buffy at the end giving her the strength to fight back. The music is very Last of the Mohicans.
So when the Turok-Han outnumber humanity the First will be made flesh? They'll be a long way to go with a few 10,000s of them and 6 billion of us. With nukes...
When Buffy and Spike hold hands and their fingers catch fire it's reminiscent of their discussion of love in season 6 when she dumps him, she tells him that their love would burn until there was nothing left. But Buffy finally breaks away here from their destructive love and goes off to see the world, the endless road ahead which Buffy looks down after the bus stops then looks back at the crater as the Sunnydale sign falls into the wreckage. For the past is history and the future promises great things for them all.
How lovely that the last words we ever hear spoken on Buffy are by our wonderful Dawn.
So Buffy defeats the First Evil, destroys the Hellmouth and shares her power with thousands of girls all over the world, forming a Slayer army to annihilate the forces of darkness. She and Faith can now share the evil fighting responsibilities and look forward to having grandchildren and dying in their beds as happy old ladies. She smiles her enigmatic, hopeful little smile...

OR

Buffy has destroyed Sunnydale and defeated her demons, sealing the Hellmouth forever, sharing her power with thousands of girls, overcoming herself in the form of the First. Faith tells her from now on she has to live like an ordinary person. "What are we going to do now Buffy?" asks Dawn. Buffy smiles her enigmatic little smile...
...and wakes up in the asylum we see her in during Normal Again, her sanity restored after 7 years. To Hank and Joyce's delight she embraces her normal existence once more, struck by how much her imaginary Sunnydale Scoobies closely resemble her friends from Hemery High, all of whom are still alive as the events of the Buffy movie were all part of her fantasy. She enjoys a long, happy, successful life, writing a series of bestselling fantasy books/TV shows/movies based on her delusion. And calls her children (and Hank and Joyce's beloved grandchildren), Dawn, Rupert, Faith, Willow and Alexander.

Either way she makes it, our girl makes it, good for her!

Marks out of 10; 10/10, the fantastic last ep of the best television series ever. We shall never see it's like again

So fond farewell to Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Went to see the original film all the way back in 1992. Came back to the series in 1997 at a very low ebb in my life. Since then things have got a lot better but this wonderful series has got me through a lot of tough times, whatever happens in life to be able to come home and stick a Buffy VHS/DVD on has made it all better. So goodbye to the Scoobys who all lived happily ever after and gave me great inspiration, it's been an indescribable pleasure.

At the end Joss thanks us for watching his show. No Joss, thank you for making it. And thank you everyone here for discussing it with me, it's been a real pleasure
 
THE MAGIC BULLET

The Good;
All of open mic night is classic but Connor and Angel singing 'Oh Jasmine' to the tune of Mandy is so funny it makes me want to lie on the floor kicking my legs in the air with laughter! Whatever they paid to use the Beach Boys it's well worth it.
The Bad;
So Fred just happens to fall down a slope and into a demon's lair who gives her the idea for defeating Jasmine? I guess we could just put this down to the PTBs. Personally I find the demon scenes boring and gross. Why doesn't Fred try to blow Jasmine's head off? The mind control books seem to burn very fast.
Best line;
Angel; "Someone has to go and get Connor"
Wes; "I'll do it. After all I've kidnapped him before"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Finger food and religious zealots on fire!
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Fred at the shop, possibly Gunn and Wes
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; 1 demon for Fred
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 58 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: possessed Lorne, Gunn, Fred and Wes
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations;
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Connor

Angel Investigations shot: yep, Angel by Fred
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Fred a dab hand with her .357 Magnum she takes from the shop
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The couple who spot Fred at the motel appear to be an amazingly voluptuous hooker and her trick, even Jasmine can't stop the world's oldest profession.
Fred kisses Angel. Angel kisses a sleeping CC (aaaawwwwww!).
Captain Subtext;
Lorne says that Jasmine 'Walked off the street and came into my ass' then hurriedly explains that's where his heart is.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Actually Jasmine is correct, Lee Harvey Oswald did act alone when he killed Kennedy. Holtz used to tie Connor to a tree and then Connor would have to free himself and track Holtz down. Talk about tough love!
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Not much, paradise on earth actually pretty boring

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Lovely idea that the woman Gunn and Wes mistake for Fred got her first ever TV job on Angel, I would have pegged her for AA's stand in. The bookseller rather reminds of the character of Denver from season 2 and Hank Azaria. Lorne refers to himself as Judas just as Lilah said Wes was. Love Lorne's baseball bat. Does CC get paid just to come in to work and lie down and go to sleep? When Jasmine's not at the hotel her power over AI seems to fade a little. You wonder if Angel got his CC's blood idea from Buffy and Dawn in 'The Gift'? When CC grabs Angel's hand is Fred telling him the truth about coma patients involuntary movements or just telling him what she need's him to hear? It's a small line in a big show but Angel seems to finally have forgiven Wes over the whole Connor kidnap. Possibly the longest ep of Angel ever at nearly 42 minutes

Marks out of 10; 7/10 I think
SACRIFICE
The Good;
The Critter in the sewers rather like Golum crossed with a giant tarantula and is truly scary. Gotta say I'm getting a little tired of the Jasmine storyline and I'll be glad when it's over
The Bad;
Jasmine's real face looks obviously rubber although the genuine maggots distract you from that. Again seems a huge coincidence that Angel and co fall into the sewers and discover just what they need. Once again the PTBs at work? I actually think that once they go down the sewers the whole ep withers. But the ending picks it up again mightily. Despite Gunn's comment we see exactly 2 police cars and a spotlight with some helicopter sound effects.
Best line;
Gunn; "I ain't never seen so many (police) cruisers"
Wes; "Well technically we're the only criminals left"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The vamp in the web, especially when it gets it tongue ripped out!
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; when Connor and his troops arrive Gunn remarks 'Time for the big fight scene!' echoing what the audience is thinking. Lorne's 'don't judge by appearances' scene cruelly shot down by the refugees.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Wes by the sewer creature
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; one demon for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations;5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: threatened with guns by Jasmine's soldiers but no
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Whereas the previous people Jasmine consumed were ordinary looking (and the director even commented on it) now it seems to be only pretty young things in their skimpy undies that Jasmine devours.
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
The Catholic Church is now dedicated to Jasmine and the governer (Schwarzeneger yet?) has handed over his administration to her.
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
You almost get the feeling that this was getting towards to the end of the season and the budget was running out so they said 'Hey let's put the entire ep in those old tunnel sets, that'll save us enough money for some Lord of the Rings CGI'. Still some nice stuff with the bug and a great climatic cliffhanger.
Lorne mentions that he heard Belieze was nice which is where Riley has been killing demons in seasons 5/6 of Buffy.
Quite honestly do the words 'and the National Guard' ever signify anything good? When the National Guard turn up it's normally a signal that things really can't get much worse. I suppose if you were under fire in Vietnam and some National Guard troops came to help you then it would be a good thing?
I take it it's Connor's blood on Angel's hands? Unless someone can correct me the last we'll ever see of Angel's convertible? Note that at the beginning of the ep Angel is holding off the horde at the door to enable his friends to escape and at the end the situation is reversed.
Marks out of 10; 7/10
 
Just had a look at your review of the finale...I avoided everything but the score you gave it and I'm glad to see it got a 10/10. I hate it when a show fizzles out towards the end, so it's reassuring to see that apparently Buffy doesn't.
 
Just had a look at your review of the finale...I avoided everything but the score you gave it and I'm glad to see it got a 10/10. I hate it when a show fizzles out towards the end, so it's reassuring to see that apparently Buffy doesn't.

Don't worry, the show may have peaked at seasons 2 and 3 but the finale is of the same quality as they are and you can't get much higher praise than that!:woot:
 
Nah, Buffy peaked at season 5, it had the most gripping and interesting story arc(or at least on a par with s2 in that regard, although s5 had the advantage of kicking off the story arc from the beginning of the season, as opposed to s2 only truly being a gripping arc halfway through the season with the introduction of Angelus), the best character development in the show(Spike), and some of the best individual episodes of the entire run. It was also the last season that Whedon was showrunner on, so that last time he took a final pass at every episode script.

Season 4 had some problems, the main one being the Big Bad was originally supposed to be Maggie Walsh, and they began building up that relationship between her and Buffy at college, but the actress dropped out for some reason, so it switched to Adam halfway through the season.
Riley Finn was not the greatest of superhero additions either was he? Pretty bland, whereas the rest of the Scoobies all have some interesting and endearing character traits, and he was supposed to be the lead's new sh bf, so took up a lot of screentime. They went with the whole angle of him being the 'safe' boyfriend, who Buffy was not passionate about, but still, even though his blandness played into that characterisation, he did not make for a great character.
So, when s4 did not dwell on these angles, we got a series as good as 2, 3 and 5, lots of great individual episodes. Whereas with s5, they did not have these problems, they got rid of Finn, had a great new big bad, and got the quality back up to scratch.
I would be curious to hear why you think s5 was not on a par with 2 and 3.
 
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You don't have to be addicted to alcohol to have a problem, and if someone was in my circle of friends who drank like Doyle did, I'd say they had a problem with alcohol.
They made it an amusing part of his character that he drank to excess, and drank a lot.

They made a lot of tender subjects on Buffy and Angel amusing. That's why a lot of it was considered taboo - because they were able to create humour from the characters problems.

But they made no allusions to the fact it was fine and dandy to be that way.

They showed how detrimental Doyle's drinking was, especially in the past, they showed how troubled he was. Yes, some of Doyle's lines had him making HIS OWN drinking seem funnier, but that was a defense mechanism of the character more than the direct views of the writers.

It was just in his character to play up to the Irish drinking stereotype to get away from the reality of his drinking problem, and I don't think it was ever showed to be a good example of how to live.

Just because they did a couple of so-so episodes in Buffy dealing with alcohol abuse, does not mean they didn't play with the Irish stereotype that Irish people get drunk all the time and it isn't an alcohol problem because they are Irish and that is what Irish people do.

In fairness, I'm from Britain, and we are big drinkers :p So it's actually quite realistic that someone like Doyle, with the issues he has, would turn to booze.

edit: and I always thought it was very clear that the season 6 arc with Willow's addiction to magic was dealing with issues of illegal drug addiction, not alcohol. I mean, you know this already, anyone can ascertain this if have watched the episdode 'Wrecked', as she goes to a dealer's house, and y'know, gets pretty damn tripped out.
Marti Noxon said she based all all of that on a friend of hers who was addicted to drugs.

Sorry I have this tendancy to see all addiction under the same umbrella, and I think they have handled addiction in general well many time throughout the series.

I don't think Doyle was a full blown addict, he would just turn to drink when stressed or upset, which on the show happened to be quite often.
 
I was trying to think who Parker reminded me off and I now realise it's Barney from HIMYM. When we see him lying in order to bed the bimbo of the week and sometimes even getting Ted, Lily and Robin to help him in his deception (and don't think Marshall ever has? Maybe he's too Minnesota?). And yet Barney is a hero to millions (check out my posting name) and many people's favourite character on the show despite the fact that he's despicable. What's the difference?

I only just saw this, so sorry for the late reply, but I think the key difference is that Barney's lies are so outrageous that he's almost more of a parody than a character. He's hilarious because he's so over-the-top, whereas Parker was more realistically portrayed. What he did could very well happen in real life, whereas the vast majority of Barney's chat-up schemes - dressing himself up as an old man, pretending he's from the future, pretending he's a millionaire, etc. - wouldn't fly in reality.
 
I only just saw this, so sorry for the late reply, but I think the key difference is that Barney's lies are so outrageous that he's almost more of a parody than a character. He's hilarious because he's so over-the-top, whereas Parker was more realistically portrayed. What he did could very well happen in real life, whereas the vast majority of

Barney's chat-up schemes -

dressing himself up as an old man,
pretending he's from the future,
pretending he's a millionaire, etc. -
wouldn't fly in reality.

No offence to straight girls but i've met more than a few who would and have fallen for barney style lines. That said I know a police detective who was rejected by a girl because she didn't believe that was really what he did for a living, even when he showed her his I.d

I rate the buffy seasons as 2/3 as best followed by 7, then 5, then 4, 1 and six. 4 is weak for much the reasons you describe, one is early days and 6 is too bleak. 5 is excellent but I don't like Riley in it or the ending for obvious reasons.
 
5 is excellent but I don't like Riley in it or the ending for obvious reasons.

*a Riley spoiler for s5*

Riley is not a major factor in s5, that's one of the good things about it, but I will say that the episodes leading up to the break up between him and Buffy is the most interesting part of his characterisation imo.

and the final ep of s5 'The Gift', dude, they selected that for the 'Best of' Buffy dvd which only had 4 eps on it, and for good reason, it is a fantastic season ender, and is a stronger finale than the actual one we got in s7. In fact, of course, they were not sure if the show would get renewed, so had that one scripted out as if it might be the final ever ep.
Of course, i can't comment on it further in case the new viewer sees this post in passing, but i will say that I'm glad it did not end on that peak, as we do get some further classic episodes in s6 and 7, even though we don't get an out and out classic series arc again.
s6 is bleak, but I don't think that's why it's weak, I think the writing quality is not up to the previous series, sometimes, yes, but I think Whedon's guiding hand was sorely missed when it came to taking a final writing pass over all the scripts.
 
Damn, "Five by Five" was the best Angel episode so far. Anytime Faith pops up, she seems to automatically up the ranking to awesome. That ending, with Angel holding her while she cried and Wesley looking on, was brilliant.
 
Damn, "Five by Five" was the best Angel episode so far. Anytime Faith pops up, she seems to automatically up the ranking to awesome. That ending, with Angel holding her while she cried and Wesley looking on, was brilliant.

Yeah that is probably one of my favorite episodes of Angel just for that ending alone. Has Wesley began to grow on you by any chance?
 
Yeah that is probably one of my favorite episodes of Angel just for that ending alone. Has Wesley began to grow on you by any chance?

He's great as comic relief, but I like it when he does get a chance to prove himself as a solid member of the team in his own right, too (like creating the key to unlock the bracelets in "The Ring"). He's much more enjoyable to watch in Angel than in Buffy. And the odd couple vibe he has with Cordelia is hilarious.
 
He's great as comic relief, but I like it when he does get a chance to prove himself as a solid member of the team in his own right, too (like creating the key to unlock the bracelets in "The Ring"). He's much more enjoyable to watch in Angel than in Buffy. And the odd couple vibe he has with Cordelia is hilarious.

I believe that starts happening soon if it hasn't already.
 
I believe that starts happening soon if it hasn't already.

Does the team ever grow beyond three members? I like the tight focus right now, but eventually, I think I'd like to see a larger number of allies for Angel to work with.
 
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