Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[Marvolo]

Wow, this is my opinion exactly. LOVE season 5. And s3. And s2. And all except s1. But 5 and 3 are constantly flip-flopping as my fave.

Marvolo, you have no idea what you're in for. t: As I just stated above, I hated s1, yet I completely love this series because the later seasons were that much of an improvement. I've since developed a certain appreciation for s1, but it truly can't compare to the others. Just out of curiosity, are you planning to watch Angel as well? Because once you get to season 4 of Buffy (which is when the spin-off started), the two shows ran parallel to each other and contained several interweaving storylines. It certainly makes for a more complete viewing experience. Plus, Angel's a great show in it's own right, so I highly recommend it.

I'm on episode 6 of season 5. I'm not sold on this season yet, but that's mostly because I don't like Dawn. That could change tho. I was watching Angel with Buffy but decided against it for various reasons. I'll go back and watch it after Buffy.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

It was more the characters that made me enjoy it more, not the stories. Wesley Windham ****ing Price is all that is manhood.

 

[flickchick85]

I actually liked Angel more than I liked Buffy.

I think that's actually a pretty popular opinion. I personally prefer Buffy, mainly because it had some of the most uniquely creative episodes I've seen on TV. I love how Joss constantly used that show as his own personal writing experiment ("let's do one where no one can talk!" "Ok, now let's try a Lynch-ian dream ep!" "How 'bout a musical?"). To me it just had more standout individual eps - even the ones Joss didn't write, like "The Zeppo," "The Wish," "Fool for Love," "Conversations with Dead People," etc.

Plus, with the way both shows ended, while I preferred Angel's final episode to Buffy's, when I step back and look at the Big Pictures of the two, Buffy felt like a more complete experience (which makes sense since everyone was planning for another season of Angel). Joss once praised Veronica Mars as "The Harry Potter of TV shows," but honestly, I feel like that title much more accurately describes Buffy (I say this as a huge Veronica Mars fan). It was a very complete coming-of-age saga.

All that said, while Buffy may have had more memorable episodes, I do think Angel had the most memorable arcs, so I can certainly understand why many people prefer it. I think they're both on a pretty even playing field of greatness, tbh.

EDIT: And Wesley is my favorite character in the entire Buffy-verse, so points to Angel for making that happen, lol.

I'm on episode 6 of season 5. I'm not sold on this season yet, but that's mostly because I don't like Dawn. That could change tho. I was watching Angel with Buffy but decided against it for various reasons. I'll go back and watch it after Buffy.

Wow, you're really speeding on through! I'm not gonna hold my breath on your feelings about Dawn improving. I certainly never warmed up to her. But I did love her role in the plot for that season.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Plus, with the way both shows ended, while I preferred Angel's final episode to Buffy's, when I step back and look at the Big Pictures of the two, Buffy felt like a more complete experience (which makes sense since everyone was planning for another season of Angel). Joss once praised Veronica Mars as "The Harry Potter of TV shows," but honestly, I feel like that title much more accurately describes Buffy (I say this as a huge Veronica Mars fan). It was a very complete coming-of-age saga.

I hated Angel's last episode. Vehemently. The combination of the show's cancellation, which kinda snubbed a proper ending on top of what I thought was a rather cheap and lazy cliffhanger just made me want to pound my head against a wall.

 

[Sawyer]

Cheap? Lazy? No no no...

 

[Scarecrow_King]

It may have just been the fact that they didn't get another season (for all I know, they were planning on resolving it).

Spoiler

But the way they end it with the team heading toward a huge mob of demons felt very lacking to me. I couldn't see a possible way of them coming out of it.

I took it as the creators throwing their hands up in the air saying "fine, you don't want us to finish it, we'll leave it like this".

 

[flickchick85]

I hated Angel's last episode. Vehemently. The combination of the show's cancellation, which kinda snubbed a proper ending on top of what I thought was a rather cheap and lazy cliffhanger just made me want to pound my head against a wall.

See, I didn't watch either shows while they were still airing, so the bitterness over its cancellation wasn't a factor for me. I knew that its ending was controversial before I watched it, and when I did, I was pleasantly surprised. Without getting too spoilery for Marvolo, I'll just say I felt like that ending perfectly summarized the main theme of the show and was therefore a nice statement to go out on, even if the creators weren't ready to go out just yet.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I think it was fitting for the theme, sure. But they could've tied things up much more neatly and still conveyed the thematic meaning of the show.

 

[flickchick85]

Well, I loved the Sopranos ending too, so I guess that type of approach is just more to my taste, lol.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

yeah, I've always preferred endings with a neat little bow on them. An open ending has to be done extremely well for me to really enjoy it. the Sopranos was one that I liked, though.

 

[Marvolo]

I think that's actually a pretty popular opinion. I personally prefer Buffy, mainly because it had some of the most uniquely creative episodes I've seen on TV. I love how Joss constantly used that show as his own personal writing experiment ("let's do one where no one can talk!" "Ok, now let's try a Lynch-ian dream ep!" "How 'bout a musical?"). To me it just had more standout individual eps - even the ones Joss didn't write, like "The Zeppo," "The Wish," "Fool for Love," "Conversations with Dead People," etc.

Plus, with the way both shows ended, while I preferred Angel's final episode to Buffy's, when I step back and look at the Big Pictures of the two, Buffy felt like a more complete experience (which makes sense since everyone was planning for another season of Angel). Joss once praised Veronica Mars as "The Harry Potter of TV shows," but honestly, I feel like that title much more accurately describes Buffy (I say this as a huge Veronica Mars fan). It was a very complete coming-of-age saga.

All that said, while Buffy may have had more memorable episodes, I do think Angel had the most memorable arcs, so I can certainly understand why many people prefer it. I think they're both on a pretty even playing field of greatness, tbh.
'
EDIT: And Wesley is my favorite character in the entire Buffy-verse, so points to Angel for making that happen, lol.


Wow, you're really speeding on through! I'm not gonna hold my breath on your feelings about Dawn improving. I certainly never warmed up to her. But I did love her role in the plot for that season.

I've lightened up towards Dawn a little since her purpose was revealed, but she is still an annoying kid at times. I can't imagine what fans thought when season 5 premiered and suddenly Buffy had a sister. I would have been like WTF! And Whedon had the balls to go on for multiple episodes without revealing where she came from. He played it straight like she was always there. I cant imagine many shows would even think about doing something like that .

 

[flickchick85]

I've lightened up towards Dawn a little since her purpose was revealed, but she is still an annoying kid at times. I can't imagine what fans thought when season 5 premiered and suddenly Buffy had a sister. I would have been like WTF! And Whedon had the balls to go on for multiple episodes without revealing where she came from. He played it straight like she was always there. I cant imagine many shows would even think about doing something like that .

I know! That's why, even though I never cared for the character, Dawn still has one of my favorite introductions of any character on TV. It was just such a brave, bold storytelling move.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I think that's actually a pretty popular opinion. I personally prefer Buffy, mainly because it had some of the most uniquely creative episodes I've seen on TV. I love how Joss constantly used that show as his own personal writing experiment ("let's do one where no one can talk!" "Ok, now let's try a Lynch-ian dream ep!" "How 'bout a musical?"). To me it just had more standout individual eps - even the ones Joss didn't write, like "The Zeppo," "The Wish," "Fool for Love," "Conversations with Dead People," etc.

Plus, with the way both shows ended, while I preferred Angel's final episode to Buffy's, when I step back and look at the Big Pictures of the two, Buffy felt like a more complete experience (which makes sense since everyone was planning for another season of Angel). Joss once praised Veronica Mars as "The Harry Potter of TV shows," but honestly, I feel like that title much more accurately describes Buffy (I say this as a huge Veronica Mars fan). It was a very complete coming-of-age saga.

All that said, while Buffy may have had more memorable episodes, I do think Angel had the most memorable arcs, so I can certainly understand why many people prefer it. I think they're both on a pretty even playing field of greatness, tbh.

EDIT: And Wesley is my favorite character in the entire Buffy-verse, so points to Angel for making that happen, lol.

I honestly can't choose between the two. I love them absolutely equally.

I hated Angel's last episode. Vehemently. The combination of the show's cancellation, which kinda snubbed a proper ending on top of what I thought was a rather cheap and lazy cliffhanger just made me want to pound my head against a wall.

I hated it at first... literally yelled at the TV

Then I watched a documentary where Joss said something about having the show end as a fight was about to begin echoed the theme of the show. That Angel will ALWAYS be fighting for redemption.

I kind of begrudgingly agreed.

I mean, I wouldn't have wanted the show to end with his redemption, it would have felt off somehow... and the more I think about it, what would have been a more fitting ending than them going into another apocalypse head on?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The end of Angel was fantastic. The whole point of the show that was hammered at us season after season is that nothing Angel does will ever be enough. Redemption isn't about fighting for a reward at the end of the journey, it's about the journey itself. It's about changing who you are to atone for the evil you've done every moment of every day, no matter the cost, without thinking of some cosmic scale slowly balancing itself. That's exactly what Angel's epiphany in season 2 made him realize, and it's why he signed his rights to the Shanshu prophecy away in season 5.

 

[Havok83]

I've lightened up towards Dawn a little since her purpose was revealed, but she is still an annoying kid at times. I can't imagine what fans thought when season 5 premiered and suddenly Buffy had a sister. I would have been like WTF! And Whedon had the balls to go on for multiple episodes without revealing where she came from. He played it straight like she was always there. I cant imagine many shows would even think about doing something like that .

I loved that. I thought it was genious

 

[Prison Mike]

I absolutely loved the series finale of Angel. I still watch it from time to time.

 

[Marvolo]

Just finished season 5 of Buffy. Its my favorite season so far.

Willows arrogance is really starting to annoy me A LOT.

 

[flickchick85]

Just finished season 5 of Buffy. Its my favorite season so far.

Woo, nice to see you ended up in our camp!

Willows arrogance is really starting to annoy me A LOT.

Yeah...have fun with s6. t:

 

[Sawyer]

I've always been disappointed that all the crossovers between the two shows after the split were always Buffy-to-Angel and never Angel-to-Buffy. I mean, yes, we saw Angel a few more times on Buffy and Faith came back for the final episodes after her arc on Angel, but we never saw Cordy go back to Sunnydale after graduation, the Scoobies never saw what a ****ing badass Wesley became, we never saw any of the characters that originated on Angel guest on Buffy...... come on! Lorne in Sunnydale?! That would've been too good.

 

[Marvolo]

I'm on Once More, With Feeling lol. Uh, this different, but not in a bad way. Makes me wish Firefly had gotten a musical episode.

 

[flickchick85]

I've always been disappointed that all the crossovers between the two shows after the split were always Buffy-to-Angel and never Angel-to-Buffy. I mean, yes, we saw Angel a few more times on Buffy and Faith came back for the final episodes after her arc on Angel, but we never saw Cordy go back to Sunnydale after graduation, the Scoobies never saw what a ****ing badass Wesley became, we never saw any of the characters that originated on Angel guest on Buffy...... come on! Lorne in Sunnydale?! That would've been too good.

Agreed. Lorne would have been fabulous in Sunnydale. I also always wanted to see [blackout]Darla[/blackout] return to Sunnydale even though there was no logical reason for her to. She was just such a lightweight character in her first appearance on the show, it would have been nice to see her get a 2nd go. I think I just wanted to see the FULL [blackout]Fang Gang back together with all new dynamics in modern times. I would have loved to see Buffy and Spike's reaction to Darla's return from dust, since she's the only vampire who has EVER done so in the Buffy-verse[/blackout]. I would also have been interested in seeing them react to her [blackout]being an en-souled human again - for the brief period during which that was the case[/blackout]. I would imagine it would have opened up all kinds of possibilities in Buffy's eyes, regarding Angel. And it still bugs me to this day that we never got Buffy's reaction to [blackout]Angel having a son with her[/blackout], or, as you mentioned, the very different characters [blackout]Cordelia and Wesley[/blackout] became as well.

 

[Sawyer]

I would've loved to see Lorne on Buffy before Dawn's origins were discovered. Just have her start singing and Lorne immediately gives the biggest WTF reaction you've ever seen.

 

[Havok83]

I've always been disappointed that all the crossovers between the two shows after the split were always Buffy-to-Angel and never Angel-to-Buffy. I mean, yes, we saw Angel a few more times on Buffy and Faith came back for the final episodes after her arc on Angel, but we never saw Cordy go back to Sunnydale after graduation, the Scoobies never saw what a ****ing badass Wesley became, we never saw any of the characters that originated on Angel guest on Buffy...... come on! Lorne in Sunnydale?! That would've been too good.

I always wanted to see the Sunnydale gang's reaction to Cordy becoming part-demon, especially Buffy and Xander. She really changed fromher HS and it would have been great if they had seen that. Ditto on Wesley and Buffy seeing him

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ya I was always mad that Cordy is the only original characcter never to cross back over to Buffy before the show ended.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I was bummed with how Cordy was handled in the later Angel seasons. They just kind of wrote her off the show. I know she had kids and that's probably why, but it always bummed me out.