BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 8

[JtheDreamer]

Most fan reviews are positive, but almost all of the critic reviews are negative. Here's why: Superman's one of the most well-known characters in the world and there are more expectations and preconceptions with him than there are with any other superhero. Marvel has put out so many movies that have a light tone, most of which are great, and so many people only have a passing familiarity with a cartoonish Superman, that it's created a bias in our current movie climate against a more serious and adult Superman movie set in a world where there's real consequences to superheroes.

MOST OF THE CRITICISM OF THIS MOVIE IS COMPLETE BOLOGNA. People shouldn't expect this to be Iron Man, it's not trying to be. And that's a GREAT thing. I give it a 4.5 out of 5.

Bologna? My god man. Teenagers read these threads. Did you have to be so scathing?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Most fan reviews are positive, but almost all of the critic reviews are negative. Here's why: Superman's one of the most well-known characters in the world and there are more expectations and preconceptions with him than there are with any other superhero. Marvel has put out so many movies that have a light tone, most of which are great, and so many people only have a passing familiarity with a cartoonish Superman, that it's created a bias in our current movie climate against a more serious and adult Superman movie set in a world where there's real consequences to superheroes.

MOST OF THE CRITICISM OF THIS MOVIE IS COMPLETE BOLOGNA. People shouldn't expect this to be Iron Man, it's not trying to be. And that's a GREAT thing. I give it a 4.5 out of 5.

I completely disagree. This movie is rather horribly paced, edited and all together slapped together. Purely as a film, it is a mess. Scenes running into each other for no reason, scenes that have no relevance to the plot.

 

[third3ye]

The only line Zack Snyder will be leading is the unemployment line

If this dude can keep his job after Sucker Punch, he's more untouchable than a Goldman Sachs executive.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Bologna? My god man. Teenagers read these threads. Did you have to be so scathing?

agreed, lets tone down on the salty language, wouldn't want to send the wrong message to our youths

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Ok I saw this earlier today with my friends. Just home now. Had plenty of time to process this movie as my friends and I went for a few beers and a proper chat about the movie afterward. I went in open minded but on my guard for potential awfulness. The movie was a hot mess. A rushed, sloppily edited, badly characterized, and very depressingly boring movie. Since my review contains spoilers, read at your own risk if you haven't seen it yet;

Spoiler

Starting with the good. Ben Affleck's performance. He played a great haunted Batman. I liked his chemistry with Irons. And when ever he was on screen he generally out acted and out classed them all with ease. He looked truly great in the Bat suit, although I thought he looked ridiculous in the dream sequence in a trenchcoat over the bat suit. Sometimes he suffered from 'teh puffy' look. But otherwise he was a feast for the eyes. His fight scenes were glorious. Truly like the Arkham games.

However his character is totally brought down by being a murderous swine of a Batman. What sticks in my throat even more is we are given no reason why he has become so murderous. Alfred hints that he wasn't always like this, or maybe he was just talking about things in general as the "It wasn't always like this" line is so vague. But either way it's a bastardization of Batman, and I hated every second of it. Made worse by the fact that nobody, not even Alfred, pulls him up on it. Making Alfred look as bad for letting it slide and still supporting a murderous vigilante.

Speaking of Alfred, Irons was solid, and had good chemistry with Affleck. But I never got that emotional bond feeling that you should get between Bruce and Alfred. They didn't feel close, or that they shared a personal connection or history. I'm not judging too harshly because hopefully it will be done more so in the Batman solo movie (if we get one).

Cavill's Superman in this is hands down the worst Superman we've had in the movies. Even Routh out classes him. He is a stoic character, who shows little emotional range other depression and self doubt. Cavill was so wooden in so many scenes, he failed to evoke any proper emotion in scenes that should have been emotion filled, and he was completed acted off the screen by Affleck. I feel like he had the same expression on his face for most of the movie. I don't entirely blame Cavill. The script and direction also share the blame for turning Superman into a wooden depressing bore.

Now for someone truly terrible in every way - Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. I say whole heartedly with no exaggeration that he is one of the worst CBM villains ever. He was a cartoonish caricature, with paper thin characterization, no clear motivation, and hammed up the movie as a truly annoying character. Why was he doing what he was doing? Why did he hate Superman so much? We get some fleeting mention of his dad hitting him, but it's never elaborated on. If you coughed you'd miss the line. He was always the worst part of the trailers for me, and people kept saying what we're seeing is just a facade act for his real menacing persona, but he was a cartoony ham all the way through.

The last scene with Batman is cringe worthy. The way he got his bald head was really anti climatic and dull. I haven't disliked a CBM villain this much since the trinity of woeful villains in The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

Now for the ladies. Amy Adams was decent. But somewhere between MOS and this what ever chemistry she and Cavill had fizzled out. I didn't feel much between them in this. Maybe it's because Cavill was so stoic and wooden this time around, but Amy was at least trying. But she can't achieve much when the effort was one way. I still really like her as Lois. Along with Affleck and Irons, she felt like she was actually giving a damn.

Gal Gadot was serviceable. The huge exaggeration about her scene stealing characterization is a classic example of fans totally over exaggerating something. Her entry into the movie saving Batman's butt was cool and all, she looked great in costume and kicked ass beautifully, but she was just an action piece. We learn almost nothing about her character, she has very little personality shown, and the bulk of her screen time is her being totally silent just observing stuff and looking hot. I'm sure she'll be a great Wonder Woman in her movie, but her presence here did not warrant the insane praise I've been reading about her.

Doomsday was one of the worst parts of the movie, and should never have been included. Half the time all I saw was electricity and fire and explosions around him, and I didn't know what the hell was going on. CGI characters were flying all over the place in CGI explosions.

It was also WAY too soon to do the death of Superman. Cavill's Superman has not earned that story yet. This is only his second outing, and there was just no emotional impact there, and I didn't believe the world grieving for him the way they did at the end. Only Lois and Martha's grief seemed in any way real.

Now regarding the actual Batman vs Superman conflict, it lasted all of what 7 minutes? They shared so little screen time together, most of it not even them in any conflict. The way it was resolved with the whole Martha thing was absolutely ridiculous. I thought people were half kidding when I read about it, and there was more to it than they were letting on. But no Batman ends the fight and sides with him just because Superman has a mother named Martha who was captured. Lazy and stupid writing wrapped into one. I don't know what they were smoking when they thought that was the way this epic showdown fans have been waiting years to see should end. Not enough face palms in the world to do it justice for how silly that was.

The amount of dream sequences in this was so frustrating and half the time I had no idea what was going on with them. The worst one had to be Batman's one in Mad Max land. Utterly pointless and a total WTF sequence.

The movie was choppy, rushed, badly edited and never gave the audience a chance to breathe and absorb the rapid succession of quick cutting scenes. I feel like it was several movies chopped into pieces and crammed sloppily into one. I hear there is an uncut version coming. There must be at least another 30 minutes of footage to add on.

The JL email cameos did nothing for me. I really didn't like how Flash looked. The fact Superman is still alive at the end makes all the dramatic stuff about his death seem totally pointless. At least the comics showed his loved ones and colleagues live without him, miss him, and mourn him for a long time before his eventual return. There was fall out and consequences explored there.

I want to give this movie a 4/10, but because Affleck's acting was so good, and the visuals were often great, and Irons and Adams made a good effort I am giving it a 5/10.

Zack Snyder needs to go ASAP. The DCCU is going to be crippled by this guy if he keeps directing the major movies like this and JL. He hasn't got a clue.

I won't lie. I give BvS a 0/10.

There are things I liked.

Perry White. Alfred. First 10 minutes. The visuals. Wonder Woman. Supers fighting in space was neat. Didn't see major product placements. Amy Adams was fine in both performance and just her. Affleck did ok but due to issues, I dislike his Batman. That's bout it.

 

[jmc]

I've never felt so much laughter at someone else's expense

Ben please be okay

It's not his fault, and I think some sort of collective online message needs to be sent to him saying so, because he's going to feel like crap for a while.

 

[Orba]

Most fan reviews are positive, but almost all of the critic reviews are negative. Here's why: Superman's one of the most well-known characters in the world and there are more expectations and preconceptions with him than there are with any other superhero. Marvel has put out so many movies that have a light tone, most of which are great, and so many people only have a passing familiarity with a cartoonish Superman, that it's created a bias in our current movie climate against a more serious and adult Superman movie set in a world where there's real consequences to superheroes.

MOST OF THE CRITICISM OF THIS MOVIE IS COMPLETE BOLOGNA. People shouldn't expect this to be Iron Man, it's not trying to be. And that's a GREAT thing. I give it a 4.5 out of 5.

So the critics didn't like it because it wasn't like Marvel's films?

Like the 85% Batman Begins, the 94% Dark Knight, and the 87% Dark Knight Rises?

 

[The Joker]

I won't lie. I give BvS a 0/10.

There are things I liked.

Perry White. Alfred. First 10 minutes. The visuals. Wonder Woman. Supers fighting in space was neat. Didn't see major product placements. Amy Adams was fine in both performance and just her. Affleck did ok but due to issues, I dislike his Batman. That's bout it.

Wow LEVI, if there's things you liked how can you rate it a 0?

 

[JtheDreamer]

agreed, lets tone down on the salty language, wouldn't want to send the wrong message to our youths

"Youts".

 

[third3ye]

Wow LEVI, if there's things you liked how can you rate it a 0?

He's using the RT rating system, don't worry about it

 

[bapi]

I won't lie. I give BvS a 0/10.

There are things I liked.

Perry White. Alfred. First 10 minutes. The visuals. Wonder Woman. Supers fighting in space was neat. Didn't see major product placements. Amy Adams was fine in both performance and just her. Affleck did ok but due to issues, I dislike his Batman. That's bout it.

0/10... That's brutal. Ad product placement...

Spoiler

That can of Dr.Pepper in the Cyborg video was quite funny, though.

 

[Lily Adler]

News networks have been panning the film as well.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Wow LEVI, if there's things you liked how can you rate it a 0?

Because those are small things.

Some things I hated

Wonder Woman is good but she does nothing plot wise.

Batman and Superman's characterizations are ****.

All and I mean ALL the actions scenes suck. Why?

Spoiler

Batmobile chase godawful. Batman dragging a car and throwing it into another car with people in both cars is the dumbest thing I've seen ever.

Batman basically kicking Superman's ass wasn't fun to see with how dumb Batman was.

The Trinity/Doomsday fight was just unevent and there was nothing to feel.

Lex is dog****

Jar of piss

JL easter eggs

Knightmare (all it does is show that Supers becomes evil in the future which makes Batman hate him even more. I'd think him trashing your car & wrecking your building is enough to hate Supers)

How the film is edited (do you know what a ****ing establishing shot is Snyder?)

There's more but I'm just sad at how bad this film is.

 

[jonathancrane]

Some of the RT critics are asserting it is worse than Batman and Robin and the F4 reboot.

Hyperbole. Even if it is bad - which I disagree with-it is nowhere close to those films, let alone worse than them. Payoffs seem more plausible, as I read the reviews.

 

[writer0327]

"Youts".

What did you say, son?

 

[TerryBatson]

So how would you guys feel if James Wan ends up directing Justice League?

I don't think WB would ask Snyder to step down but I can see Snyder handing over the job to another director and the only other director that is currently involved in a near future DC project is him. So it wouldn't be hard for Snyder who would still be an executive producer to ask Wan to direct Justice League in his place.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am no James Wan fan.

 

[Boom]

Either way, we need a storyteller. Not a glorified DOP.

 

[JtheDreamer]

What did you say, son?

Two Youts.

 

[jonathancrane]

Snyder is a storyteller.

He did drop the [proverbial film] ball once, and it was not BVS.

It was MOS. I've made peace with the film, but, yeah...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Snyder is a storyteller.

He did drop the [proverbial film] ball once, and it was not BVS.

It was MOS. I've made peace with the film, but, yeah...

I think Man of Steel is a much better film then BvS. Much better.

 

[Avid Avenger]

Is the Audience rating not dropping anymore? It's been 74% all day for me tbh, so it's stopped or moving much slower than usual.

 

[The Joker]

Because those are small things.

Some things I hated

Wonder Woman is good but she does nothing plot wise.

Batman and Superman's characterizations are ****.

All and I mean ALL the actions scenes suck. Why?

Spoiler

Batmobile chase godawful. Batman dragging a car and throwing it into another car with people in both cars is the dumbest thing I've seen ever.

Batman basically kicking Superman's ass wasn't fun to see with how dumb Batman was.

The Trinity/Doomsday fight was just unevent and there was nothing to feel.

Lex is dog****

Jar of piss

JL easter eggs

Knightmare (all it does is show that Supers becomes evil in the future which makes Batman hate him even more. I'd think him trashing your car & wrecking your building is enough to hate Supers)

How the film is edited (do you know what a ****ing establishing shot is Snyder?)

There's more but I'm just sad at how bad this film is.

Fair enough. I guess when you look at it the things you do like don't amount to much in the grand scale of the movie overall.

But still I had no idea you'd hate it that much. You're the first one I've seen to score it a 0. That must mean you rate it worse than TASM2?

Is the Audience rating not dropping anymore? It's been 74% all day for me tbh, so it's stopped or moving much slower than usual.

2 days ago it was at 85%. It will probably drop more. Early days.

 

[NeoRanger]

Some of the RT critics are asserting it is worse than Batman and Robin and the F4 reboot.

Hyperbole. Even if it is bad - which I disagree with-it is nowhere close to those films, let alone worse than them..

I saw that too. In one of the latest reviews added, which is less of a review and more of an angry rant and goes on to annihilate practically everything in the movie, including the things that most everyone else at least considers passable, if not outright good.

Payoffs seem more plausible, as I read the reviews

But that's ridiculous. RT features a collection of people who didn't care enough for it, cared just enough for it and then there are some fan ramblings that are useful to approximately 0 people. Nothing suggests anything so extreme as "payoffs".

 

[jonathancrane]

I think Man of Steel is a much better film then BvS. Much better.

The only way I can sit through MOS is if I've knocked back a few beers. I loved the Into the Wild-esque sequences and Zod's broadcast, but that's about it. BVS, though, I can write a long list of all of the tasks it achieves gloriously.