First Avenger Captain America Cannon and Real World Facts - MUST READ

[chris moore]

All very interesting and a fun read. But man alive.... talk about taking the imagination out of it.

Superman has no standing in any military - but every member of all the armed forces pretty much jumps on his say so. Duke is a First Sergeant and has refused repeated officer commissions, but all the officers bar Hawk follow his orders. Same goes for Cap, actual Captaincy or not.

I also read at one point that Cap in addition to the highest security clearance in the military and many branches of the government, also permanently holds the often very temporary rank of Field Marshall, thereby getting around any of those tricky "I'm a General and I won't take orders from no superhero" issues.

Further, it has long been established (which is the only fact in the history blurb above I openly question and therefore take the rest with a grain of salt) that Cap's shield is not an alloy of Vibranium and Adamantium, but an alloy of Vibranium and Iron. The Doc's attempts to replicate the process are what resulted in what is now termed Adamantium.

 

[roach]

well I disagree that its taking the imagination out of it. Cap's origin is very vague. The very next panel after getting the SSS he's fully trained and in costume. We dont who trained him...these were the questions I wanted to answer in my fan fic Codename:Captain America.

 

[jab1118]

well I disagree that its taking the imagination out of it. Cap's origin is very vague. The very next panel after getting the SSS he's fully trained and in costume. We dont who trained him...these were the questions I wanted to answer in my fan fic Codename:Captain America.

To be honest i dont care. I would prefer that as soon as he becomes Cap they skip all the how he was trained stuff its boreing. Just tell me its a year later or something and move on. All that matters is that he learned it all. Some things are better left just accepted. I dont need explanation of how hulk becomes hulk, there was an accident now he becomes hulk. How exactly does Ironman suit work again, I dont care it just does. So how did Cap learn all that tecnique and training he had the SSS and he learns faster then most give him a year and hes the most bad ass man alive.

 

[roach]

im not even talking about movie origins...in the comics is vague. I'd settle for a montage at least

 

[jab1118]

Id be okay with some sort of training montage that shows Cap picking things up and being perfect at them right away leaving his trainers in disbelief

 

[Thundercrack85]

They could do something like Batman Begins (yes, I know that's a reference run into the ground), where they go back and forth with flasbacks early on. Showing his early life, training and what not.

 

[blackbyrd]

Well, I do want ot see how and who trained him and how long it took to train him, etc. Those little details are what ground the story in relaity and then you can suspend reality when it comes ot Cap on certain levels. I think that is exactly why Batman Begins/TDK are so fantastic.

Up to now most comicbook movies were comicbook movies.

Nolan came along and made a movie that just happened to be about a comic character.

The more "real" it is, the greater it translates on screen. It's eaxtly why the FF movies were dogdoo.

I think it is universally accepted that when the source material is treated seriously, you get a better movie. Thatis why filming CAP like Saving Private Ryan and then after the freeze treating it like Blackhawk Down would be an amazing movie. It is grounded in reality.

As for the SHIELD...I think that is one of those things that has been retconned a dozen times. There are many sources that claim it was a hybrid of Vibranium and Adamantium. I think it needs to be both. The metallurgic properties of each are what make it "real" per se. The Adamantium makes it indestructible. The vibranium is what makes him be able to absorb impacts and not be thrown for a loop. That is why in the comics he can take a punch from the Hulk and still remain in the same place where as without the Shield he would be throw. The vibranium absorbs the imapct and distributes the force elsewhere. By explaining this, you make it more real.

There are two types of moviegoers, sophsticated ones and no-so sophisticated ones. By adding relaism, you appease the sophisticated ones and the no-so's will accept it because they just want to see a movie.

Not to beat a dead horse but see Batman Begins/TDK and Superman 1978. The other things that made both of these movies work what that they were filmed on location vice studio sets. Visually, they are different movies than Spiderman. You can totally see sound stage vice real world back drops.

Isn't that why the old trilogy Star Wars is better than new trilogy. The sets on SW were real vice digital animation. Consider also, the realism of Hoth (filmed in Greenand) where you could see the breath and they had to wear clothing in accordance with the environent vice Mustafar, the volcano planet where they didn't have to wear special suits in accordnce witht he climate. It just wasn't "real looking." It just didn't make any sense why they are affected by the cold but not by the heat of lava....dumb.

 

[roach]

The movie is reported to be like Indiana Jones with gadgets, and how is it gonna be like Blackhawk down when he'll be teaming up with a Thunder god and a man in flying armor

 

[Thundercrack85]

That is one thing that bugs me about the Avengers (Ultimates) is that they basically reduce distinct heroes to semi-generic team members. Kills a lot of their character and uniqueness.

I'd much rather see Cap have his own trilogy than him only having a single movie, and him spending the rest of his time vying for screen time against other characters in the Avengers.

As for "realism", It's all relevant really. As long as it's not contrived and looks good, it's fine by me. You can't get too realistic when you have a Norse thunder god on speed dial. But you can make it look realistic. It's all about presentation.

 

[chris moore]

Realism had its limits in my opinion. Grounded in reality by having explanations for things and not making his transition from the injection to the field one of mere days or something. But I don't want the harshness of war to be slammed into my face.

I like the premise of his learning skills faster than a damn computer brought up this month in Ultimate Avengers. So his receiving intensive training every minute of every day for a few weeks will eloquently display to us just how well the SSS prevents build up of fatigue poisons, and how fluidly he absorbs new skills and applies them and combines them. Done this way, I think it should be real time rather than intermittent flashbacks during, say, a heavy fire pinned down battle that the film begins in.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The more "real" it is, the greater it translates on screen. It's eaxtly why the FF movies were dogdoo.

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but it's completely off base. In fact, I would argue it's simply wrong.

The FF movies weren't unsuccessful because of their fantastical nature, they performed badly because they were badly written.

BB and TDK did as well as they have because they were very well written movies. And they're really not that realistic, they just implement elements of realism to give the movie a grittier style.

Movies like Spider-man 2 were also extremely successful, but very fantastical, and it was successful because it was a well written movie. (Even though I believe it's not the best Spider-man movie, it would be pointless to deny it's not a very well made movie.)

What makes a movie good is if it's a well made movie. Plain and simple, realism has nothing to do with it.

 

[souloffire]

Steve Rogers was born in New York City during the Depression and grew up a frail youth in a poor family.

Actually he would have been born before the Depression. Nice job, very informative.

 

[KatarHol]

well I disagree that its taking the imagination out of it. Cap's origin is very vague. The very next panel after getting the SSS he's fully trained and in costume. We dont who trained him...these were the questions I wanted to answer in my fan fic Codename:Captain America.

The Adventures of Captain America Sentinel of Liberty #1 details his training. By the looks of it,he was fully trained before he even got the serum. I love this mini-series,well,at least the first 3 and half issues when Kevin Maguire is drawing it. Before the serum,Cap would have been pretty deadly after all the training they put him through.

 

[chris moore]

Actually, thats true. There's nothing to say that Steve Rogers was recruited into the program then spent the next six months sat in a room reading, or sat in a lab undergoing blood tests and things. There's every chance they trained him in techniques as the most efficient way of getting the supersoldier program out on the field as soon as possible.

 

[Webhead2006]

you would think so. I wouldnt be against doing a short montage scenes after he gets SSS and before he goes into first mission to see what/how he was trained.

 

[Steve Holt]

what if the movie started with him falling into the ocean with the voice over of his letter to his gf. then the origin, training, etc etc.....up until the missile explosion and the voice over again, the movie being bookended. then after the credits in the present they are looking for him and they spot something in the ice/snow/water

 

[Thundercrack85]

what if the movie started with him falling into the ocean with the voice over of his letter to his gf. then the origin, training, etc etc.....up until the missile explosion and the voice over again, the movie being bookended. then after the credits in the present they are looking for him and they spot something in the ice/snow/water

That's not a bad idea at all. They could even go a bit further, and have it start out in the present with them finding him, and flashbacks from there.

Though I also like the idea of it starting out in the 30s (Great Depression-era New York City) with young Steve reading newsreels about the rise of the Nazis. Maybe even show a young, pre-Red Skull Johann Schmidt next to Hitler in a picture.

 

[Triad]

what if the movie started with him falling into the ocean with the voice over of his letter to his gf. then the origin, training, etc etc.....up until the missile explosion and the voice over again, the movie being bookended. then after the credits in the present they are looking for him and they spot something in the ice/snow/water

I like this idea too.

 

[Steve Holt]

i think cinematically it would look so different, falling for most of the voiceover, then hitting the water just before the voice says
"i know we'll see each other again, in this life or the next" as the photo floats away and steve falls futher out of focus in to the depths. then cue credits as white text over the underwater scenery, Marvel Studios Presents........etc etc.
then have the first scene after the credits start with water.
Like the camera pans out from a puddle just as an army jeep drives through it. then slowly moves back over the shoulder of a skinny and frail steve looking at the recruitment office.
-origin story
etc etc


Then end with him on the missile and it exploding, quick cuts of him falling, voice over of "This life or the next" as he falls into blackness.
-credits
start with the water again diver coming out of the water, taking of goggles, looking up. "I think we found something". camera slowly turns around to reveal Stark in a snow jacket looking at the diver with a smug look. "Someone get Captain Hook on the phone, we found his peter pan". or some kind of joke referencing the eye patch.
-end

the way they stark found steve's body, no matter how good stark is at maths will be questioned, to many variables. the best way to explain this and to incorporate the alternate opening of TIH is simple, and kills to birds with one stone. In which ever movie they want to do it in or even just as a teaser trailer for either Avengers or Cap. It would be a shame to waste the arctic footage.

- Six Months Ago pops up on screen (or whatever suits the timeline)
Have the arctic scene but splice in new footage of shield agents or hulkbusters following him for whatever reason, when it does the over head shot of him walking have it suddenly change to a computer screen and him being watched. have the agents watch him as he drops to his knees, Fury's or Ross' voice yelling over the earpieces "Contain the asset!".
Shot of agent running towards hulk, Shot of glacier collapsing.
Agent falls into water and washes up bearly concious and in a daze as the block of ice with rogers in it floats by. Office scene at Shield or SOCOM with Ross or Fury siting down discussing what he saw, the agent thinks he was seeing things. Ross/Fury looking him dead on....
"Mr Barton, What do you know about Captain America?"
-Quick Montage of shots from TFA:CA followed by coming soon or the release date.

wow some quick ideas turned into a movie treatment so quickly lol.

 

[Webhead2006]

so nice ideas.

 

[Steve Holt]

so nice ideas.

sucks that they probly won't ever use that artic footage, because it was so emotional and powerful

 

[Webhead2006]

totally it doesnt make sense really to use it since it was cut and isnt apart of the film. Plus we have no clue how joe wants to have cap frozen and if/how he is found if he is found in closing credit scene or something.

 

[Triad]

It's been a while since I watched it, but I remember thinking I was glad it was cut from TIH. It wasn't that great. (No disrespect to your opinion, Steve) Like I said, I haven't seen it for some time though, so maybe I'll pop it in again tonight for a second chance.

 

[jab1118]

Cool ideas but since this is the real world facts thread I will say that Cap needs to be on a plane carrying a missle that crashes him holding onto a missle is just not realistic. Also I think it would be better if it crashed on land not in water then he froze that way u dont have to deal with a drowning issue or the fact that he would not freeze into a block of ice underwater.

 

[Webhead2006]

well you kind just have him freeze on land cause he probably would have been found a few days later and not 70+ yrs later. That is why frozen under water or buried deep in group frozen works better.