Captain Marvel General Discussion and Speculation - Part 1

[Bullseye1]

Ant-man cost $130 million and makes $409 million and gets a sequel. Lucy costs $40 million and makes $458 million and they still won't commit to a $50 million Black Widow movie.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I will say this: Looking at their new schedule, this does support my theory that the CM movie is meant to play a major part in the Infinity War saga. Every single placement of this film (of which there have been 3 now) has always put it as the film released right before Infinity War: Part 2, and now I honestly believe that's because it has to be, for whatever they have planned with the story of this grand finale. Black Panther has moved from before, to after, to before Infinity War: Part 1, so I don't think that's vital to the IW story, but they seem to be bending over backwards with their release dates to make sure that nothing comes between Captain Marvel and IW: Part 2, so I think they are probably heavily connected. And that thought I find encouraging just because it suggests they still see Captain Marvel as a seriously major player in their universe.

I've suspected Captain Marvel was going to be at least as connected to Infinity War part 2 as much as Captain America The First Avenger was connected to The Avengers.

With First Avenger you had the cosmic cube and Steve Rogers getting frozen and then awakening into the modern day at the end of the movie, both of which lead into and were carried into The Avengers. I suspect Captain Marvel is going to deal with Carol's origin (meeting Mar-Vell, getting her powers from him, and taking up his superhero name/legacy) and is setting her up to join The Avengers at the end of the movie. I think that is why Marvel is keeping it sandwiched in the middle of the Infinity War two parter.

Whereas I've suspect Panther's movie will be more stand alone and dealing with Panther's life on Wakanda and supporting cast and villains.

 

[Flint Marko]

Ant-man cost $130 million and makes $409 million and gets a sequel. Lucy costs $40 million and makes $458 million and they still won't commit to a $50 million Black Widow movie.

You have Perlmutter to thank for that. Thankfully he's out of the picture.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

Pushed back for Spidey I get, but Ant-Man? lmao

 

[Mike5575]

Yeah, that's the most frustrating thing about it to me. Like, I'm excited for Wonder Woman but that's far from a guaranteed success since DC hasn't "proven" their new universe to the GA yet and there are so many unknown variables involved, while pretty much anything Marvel makes IS a guaranteed success right now, yet they're the ones being all gun shy about it. FFS, Captain Marvel is SUCH an easy sell too, MUCH easier than Ant-Man, from power-set to personality to her connection to the greater MCU...I just don't get it.

I will say this: Looking at their new schedule, this does support my theory that the CM movie is meant to play a major part in the Infinity War saga. Every single placement of this film (of which there have been 3 now) has always put it as the film released right before Infinity War: Part 2, and now I honestly believe that's because it has to be, for whatever they have planned with the story of this grand finale. Black Panther has moved from before, to after, to before Infinity War: Part 1, so I don't think that's vital to the IW story, but they seem to be bending over backwards with their release dates to make sure that nothing comes between Captain Marvel and IW: Part 2, so I think they are probably heavily connected. And that thought I find encouraging just because it suggests they still see Captain Marvel as a seriously major player in their universe.

Yeah, Captain Marvel will forever be the movie that got delayed because of Ant-Man. Spider-Man, I get, but Ant-Man? Now, that's just sad. I know what you mean. Marvel, just make the damn movie already! Interestingly enough, Black Panther and Captain Marvel were moved to Black History Month and The International Women's Day respectively. If you ask me, it's more of an excuse as opposed to a real reason for shifting the dates around. I wonder if they did this to help the movies do better at the BO and then decided to squeeze in Ant-Man? For the life of me, I can't see any rational explanation for moving the Captain Marvel movie AGAIN! Why does Marvel even continue pushing her in the comics, games, and merchandise if they're not serious about her movie. Meanwhile, Ant-Man only got his comic because of his movie and Wasp is still non-existent. She's not even in the all female lineup of A-Force.

Seriously, I get so sick of Marvel saying they have a plan within a plan within a plan. This doesn't look good on their part. CM is the single easiest character to introduce in IW. Wonder Woman is coming out almost a two full years before CM. Anyways, at least we got Jessica Jones for Netflix.

 

[third3ye]

I will say this: Looking at their new schedule, this does support my theory that the CM movie is meant to play a major part in the Infinity War saga. Every single placement of this film (of which there have been 3 now) has always put it as the film released right before Infinity War: Part 2, and now I honestly believe that's because it has to be, for whatever they have planned with the story of this grand finale. Black Panther has moved from before, to after, to before Infinity War: Part 1, so I don't think that's vital to the IW story, but they seem to be bending over backwards with their release dates to make sure that nothing comes between Captain Marvel and IW: Part 2, so I think they are probably heavily connected. And that thought I find encouraging just because it suggests they still see Captain Marvel as a seriously major player in their universe.

Good observation. We all figured Danvers would have to be introduced prior to AIW2, but the fact that they keep shifting her film to position it right before AIW2 does signify that there are going to be plot elements in her film that tie directly to AIW2. I've always suspected one of the Infinity Stones would play a major role in her movie, perhaps the end of her movie shows Thanos getting the final of the 6 stones and completing the gauntlet as a major cliffhanger to torture us for a whopping 2 months Could be that CM is the most closely tied to the AIW arc among all the Phase 3 films.

 

[TeeKay]

Can someone please explain to me why a film getting pushed back a few months is such a tragedy? How is it "embarrassing"? It's not like they're postponing the movie indefinitely or cancelling it altogether. We just have to wait a few months longer but guess what? We get more Marvel content because of it.

With the way the reaction is in here, you'd think the film was canceled entirely.

 

[Marathon]

The release date is now so close to IW2 that CM effectively becomes or rather has to become IW1.5. It would be too awkward to include a drawn-out origin story in the midst of THE endgame for all hitherto MCU phases.

 

[Flint Marko]

Marvel, just make the damn movie already!

They will.

Honest question, is some of this negativity stemming from the fact that this is Marvel's first female super hero, and some are ready to conclude that Marvel shifting around the release date is some sign that they don't care about the property?

 

[flickchick85]

They will.

Honest question, is some of this negativity stemming from the fact that this is Marvel's first female super hero, and some are ready to conclude that Marvel shifting around the release date is some sign that they don't care about the property?

No one's ready to "conclude" anything, but yes, this being Marvel's 1st lead female is a large reason for this negative reaction. It doesn't look good when you take forever to get to her then keep pushing her back. They will now be over 20 films into their franchise before having a female lead hero. Women make up 51% of the world's population and over 40% of their viewing audience. And no female lead hero for 20 films. That's kind of a crappy ratio.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

The release date is now so close to IW2 that CM effectively becomes or rather has to become IW1.5. It would be too awkward to include a drawn-out origin story in the midst of THE endgame for all hitherto MCU phases.

You mean it would be too awkward to shoehorn Carol's origin into one of the Avengers Infinity War movies? Because yeah, I agree.

Thankfully she has her own movie that is all about her, where her superhero origin can be told, and it doesn't have to fight with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and everyone else fighting Thanos for screen time and story space.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

Can someone please explain to me why a film getting pushed back a few months is such a tragedy? How is it "embarrassing"? It's not like they're postponing the movie indefinitely or cancelling it altogether. We just have to wait a few months longer but guess what? We get more Marvel content because of it.

It's been pushed back twice. There is absolutely no guarantee it won't happen again. Add to that Perlmutter's email to Sony, and I think the reactions are understandable.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

With the way the reaction is in here, you'd think the film was canceled entirely.

I know. Marvel is not disowning the film; they're just moving it so they can get more movies in while getting release dates that help all the films on the slate. I had a feeling that once Ant-Man did well enough at the BO and Feige kept stating that Hope/Wasp would have a big role in Phase 3, a sequel was in the works. I get the feeling that even though Marvel's schedule has been in a lot of flux since they first announced the Phase 3 slate, there has always been a plan to have the ability to add or move films depending on certain deals and performance marks while keeping their overall vision for the MCU intact.

 

[Marathon]

You mean it would be too awkward to shoehorn Carol's origin into one of the Avengers Infinity War movies? Because yeah, I agree.

Thankfully she has her own movie that is all about her, where her superhero origin can be told, and it doesn't have to fight with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and everyone else fighting Thanos for screen time and story space.

CM is only separated from IW2 by a few months. Marvel are hedging their bets by no doubt infusing CM with IW2 story hooks aplenty. CM might still be a CM movie, but this postponement makes me think they are writing it even more as a de facto bridge from IW1 to IW2 - an "IW1.5", if you will.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's been pushed back twice. There is absolutely no guarantee it won't happen again. Add to that Perlmutter's email to Sony, and I think the reactions are understandable.

Perlmutter is out of the picture. His sexism is no longer affecting the company; note that this decision was not made under his leadership.

No one's ready to "conclude" anything, but yes, this being Marvel's 1st lead female is a large reason for this negative reaction. It doesn't look good when you take forever to get to her then keep pushing her back. They will now be over 20 films into their franchise before having a female lead hero. Women make up 51% of the world's population and over 40% of their viewing audience. And no female lead hero for 20 films. That's kind of a crappy ratio.

I definitely understand how problematic Marvel's whitewashed, male-led slate is, but the amount of negativity this news is drawing from some people, both here and elsewhere, honestly surprises me.
You posited an extremely likely, sensible theory as to why the release date has taken such a position. That was my first inclination as well. I'm certainly disappointed whenever movies I want to see are pushed back, but often times there are good reasons why that is the case. I see no reason to assume otherwise here. Not to mention that release dates really don't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. This movie will definitely come out, it will most likely be awesome, and all of this will be forgotten soon enough.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It's been pushed back twice. There is absolutely no guarantee it won't happen again. Add to that Perlmutter's email to Sony, and I think the reactions are understandable.

Exactly.

 

[flickchick85]

Perlmutter is out of the picture. His sexism is no longer affecting the company; note that this decision was not made under his leadership.

Which means this decision doesn't exactly instill confidence that things are going to be any different without him.

I definitely understand how problematic Marvel's whitewashed, male-led slate is, but the amount of negativity this news is drawing from some people, both here and elsewhere, honestly surprises me.
You posited an extremely likely, sensible theory as to why the release date has taken such a position. That was my first inclination as well. I'm certainly disappointed whenever movies I want to see are pushed back, but often times there are good reasons why that is the case. I see no reason to assume otherwise here. Not to mention that release dates really don't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. This movie will definitely come out, it will most likely be awesome, and all of this will be forgotten soon enough.

Let's hope so. I only half-believe my own theory, lol.

 

[CaptainWagner]

The release date is now so close to IW2 that CM effectively becomes or rather has to become IW1.5. It would be too awkward to include a drawn-out origin story in the midst of THE endgame for all hitherto MCU phases.

Not really. Mar-Vell could seamlessly fit into Part 1, acting in part as the replacement for Silver Surfer. He dies, and it curtails into Captain Marvel, which can then bring in GOTG for the big Part 2 team up.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

CM is only separated from IW2 by a few months. Marvel are hedging their bets by no doubt infusing CM with IW2 story hooks aplenty. CM might still be a CM movie, but this postponement makes me think they are writing it even more as a de facto bridge from IW1 to IW2 - an "IW1.5", if you will.

I think the connection will be about as much as Captain America First Avenger was connected to The Avengers.

 

[SwiftFox]

I like FlickChicks theory and I'm gonna stick to it.

 

[Loki882]

Can someone please explain to me why a film getting pushed back a few months is such a tragedy? How is it "embarrassing"? It's not like they're postponing the movie indefinitely or cancelling it altogether. We just have to wait a few months longer but guess what? We get more Marvel content because of it.

Because they made a big deal out of it, made a big thing about "see, see, we do want to do a female-led film," and are now dragging their feet on it. They've pushed it back TWICE now, once for a THIRD version of Peter Parker (in the last 15 years or so across THREE continuities and SIX films) and now again for another sequel starring a white guy. So now, we have to wait almost another year, over A DECADE since this MCU began, to finally get that film, or maybe (they might decide to push it back again).

Basically, it doesn't help Marvel's case in regards to this issue, it makes them look like they're trying to have their cake and eat it to. Plus it make their claims of "well we cannot do this or that project now because we don't the time and have this set plan in place." Well apparently it's not THAT "set" a plan if they can just push films back so suddenly to make room for more.

And finally, I want to see a Carol Danvers movie BEFORE we get a SIXTH Peter Parker Spidey film (they could have at least changed it up and made it Miles Morales or something) and an Ant Man sequel.

 

[Parker Wayne]

No one's ready to "conclude" anything, but yes, this being Marvel's 1st lead female is a large reason for this negative reaction. It doesn't look good when you take forever to get to her then keep pushing her back. They will now be over 20 films into their franchise before having a female lead hero. Women make up 51% of the world's population and over 40% of their viewing audience. And no female lead hero for 20 films. That's kind of a crappy ratio.

It's a crappy ratio. It's one that both Marvel, WB, and Fox should ashamed of themselves for. Captain Marvel should have been Phase 2. Carol Danvers should have been introduced already. Both Rhodey and Falcon, who are both Air Force, have been introduced.

It feels baffling that Marvel moved Captain Marvel when they didn't need to. It also feels condescending that they moved Captain Marvel to Women's History Month, as if it needed to be lifted by free publicity or something. It's a weird move and it's not one that inspires confidence that their first female solo movie got moved twice.

At least Black Panther got moved up, but the fact that that movie got moved to Black History month makes me believe both a Black hero and a female hero got moved to their respective months of celebration aren't a coincidence.

 

[Flint Marko]

Because they made a big deal out of it, made a big thing about "see, see, we do want to do a female-led film," and are now dragging their feet on it. They've pushed it back TWICE now, once for a THIRD version of Peter Parker (in the last 15 years or so across THREE continuities and SIX films) and now again for another sequel starring a white guy. So now, we have to wait almost another year, over A DECADE since this MCU began, to finally get that film, or maybe (they might decide to push it back again).

Basically, it doesn't help Marvel's case in regards to this issue, it makes them look like they're trying to have their cake and eat it to. Plus it make their claims of "well we cannot do this or that project now because we don't the time and have this set plan in place." Well apparently it's not THAT "set" a plan if they can just push films back so suddenly to make room for more.

And finally, I want to see a Carol Danvers movie BEFORE we get a SIXTH Peter Parker Spidey film (they could have at least changed it up and made it Miles Morales or something) and an Ant Man sequel.

Shifting the release date is "dragging their feet"? This is exactly the sort of misguided assumption I was alluding to earlier. You're filling in the blanks and seeing what you want to see.

 

[Parker Wayne]

It sounds like they wanted to take advantage of International Women's History Day, which combined with Black Panther's move to Black History month seems like two pretty condescending moves.

 

[Flint Marko]

Actually it sounds like they greenlit a brand new movie for phase 3 and had to shift around release dates.