Captain Marvel General Discussion and Speculation - Part 1

[fixxxer]

^

Again, extremely highly powered... but not overpowered. At some point, make your central protagonist too overpowered and the story loses it's grit, stakes, momentum and sense of connection to the audience. Unless the source material calls for it (for example, Dr. Manhattan, Hulk's raw strength, etc.), I want to root for real characters that have gained great power, not for gods, who have basically transcended humanity. Superman in MOS, for example, was basically a god whose complete disconnection with humanity was absolutely apparent. I'd hate for that to happen to Carol.

Apples vs. oranges to an extent... but in GOTG, Drax and Gamora are both considerably more underpowered than their comic book counterparts. It worked so much better on film that way. Can you imagine an absurdly powered Gamora throwing people into the sun and somesuch? That would have made for a considerably worse movie, IMO.

 

[Mike5575]

I wouldn't worried too much about it. In fact, based off what Kevin Feige said, it sounds as if she's going to be overpowered, which is awesome btw. If you've ever watched the animated series Avengers: EMH, they featured an overpowered Ms. marvel which was capable of the following feats:

1. Pounding the Griffin into dust
2. Overpowering the Hulk in a brawler lock(Seriously)
3. Incapacitating Ronan
4. Knocking back Galactus a step

Carol was a beast in that show. Her Shield file said she was just as tough as Thor and almost as strong as the Hulk. While, I don't they'll make her that overpowered, I'd expect she's be able to at least match Thor and the Hulk in power levels.

 

[Mike5575]

^

Again, extremely highly powered... but not overpowered. At some point, make your central protagonist too overpowered and the story loses it's grit, stakes, momentum and sense of connection to the audience. Unless the source material calls for it (for example, Dr. Manhattan, Hulk's raw strength, etc.), I want to root for real characters that have gained great power, not for gods, who have basically transcended humanity. Superman in MOS, for example, was basically a god whose complete disconnection with humanity was absolutely apparent. I'd hate for that to happen to Carol.

Apples vs. oranges to an extent... but in GOTG, Drax and Gamora are both considerably more underpowered than their comic book counterparts. It worked so much better on film that way. Can you imagine an absurdly powered Gamora throwing people into the sun and somesuch? That would have made for a considerably worse movie, IMO.

I think they can make her incredibly op, but I also think the threats are going to become more severe, villains more powerful as the storyline progresses forward to infinity war. Carol will be a bit op most likely for the sake of the plot. As long as their is a sort of power balance between the protagonists and antagonists, everything will be ok. Other than being its own show, there's a very good reason why the Avengers never show up on Agents of Shield. Scary guys with guns may pose a threat to Coulson and his team, but throw in Iron Man, then every episode would end in five minutes.

Speaking of the Guardians, I'm glad the Nova Corps was severely underpowered. As you pointed out, the Guardians being underpowered worked out for the storyline. Introducing an all powerful Nova Force would have taken the focus off our heroes.

 

[fixxxer]

^

Agreed on the Nova Corps being underpowered. Loved that they're basically "SHIELD in space" rather than basically a bunch of supers. If they'd gone with the latter, it would have diminished not only the Guardians but also Nova, when he's eventually introduced.

Yea, I love A:EMH's Carol. I think that power level is about right, more or less. Maybe reduced a tad, but in the same ballpark. She could fly, was a brickhouse and do all kinds of cool blasts. However, I never got the sense that her power was godlike. That's what I want to avoid.

 

[Mike5575]

^

Agreed on the Nova Corps being underpowered. Loved that they're basically "SHIELD in space" rather than basically a bunch of supers. If they'd gone with the latter, it would have diminished not only the Guardians but also Nova, when he's eventually introduced.

Yea, I love A:EMH's Carol. I think that power level is about right, more or less. Maybe reduced a tad, but in the same ballpark. She could fly, was a brickhouse and do all kinds of cool blasts. However, I never got the sense that her power was godlike. That's what I want to avoid.

It kind of makes wonder what the Nova Corps plan on doing with the power stone. They could use it to introduce the MCU version of the Nova Force if they wanted to. Especially after the events in GOTG.

Yeah, a Carol was all that and a bag of chips. I'm hoping to see that showdown between her and a resurrected Ronan where a seriously pissed Carol flattens Ronan.

Here's Carol in one of the EMH comics arm-wrestling Thor. She ends up winning btw!

 

[kvz5]

Remember this?

https://***********/JamesGunn/status/556271393428353024

Anyway, Gunn had a Twitter Q&A thing and he said this:

https://***********/JamesGunn/status/571816307026362368

It obviously led to a ton of speculations. And then he followed that up with this:

https://***********/JamesGunn/status/572514297697452032

And because I think too much of things, I really think it's Carol.

 

[flickchick85]

I just have a hard time imagining how they'd do that without skipping Carol's origin entirely.

Also, I'm a little wary of Carol's first characterization in the MCU being written by James Gunn. I love GotG, but Gamora was fairly generic, imo, and I've never cared for any of his other female characters.

 

[kvz5]

Yeah I'm not sure yet how I feel about that but I feel like the clues he's giving points to Carol making an appearance in GOTG2.

 

[Havok83]

Ive always thought GoTG would be the perfect place to get the ball rolling with her. Whether thats her MCU debut or not, thats defintely a place they can handle Kree/Captain Marvel I to set up an origin story for her

 

[Snow Queen]

Remember this?

https://***********/JamesGunn/status/556271393428353024

Anyway, Gunn had a Twitter Q&A thing and he said this:

https://***********/JamesGunn/status/571816307026362368

It obviously led to a ton of speculations. And then he followed that up with this:

https://***********/JamesGunn/status/572514297697452032

And because I think too much of things, I really think it's Carol.

Please god no.

 

[Mike Murdock]

She's in space in the comics now. If they skip her origin entirely, it's not difficult to put her in GOTG. Tony Stark asks her to go to space or she works for SWORD and she goes to space or Mar-Vell asks her to go to space or she just gets her Kree powers and decides Hey, I want to go to space.

I'm not sure we want multiple humans in the movie, though.

 

[Havok83]

She's in space in the comics now. If they skip her origin entirely, it's not difficult to put her in GOTG. Tony Stark asks her to go to space or she works for SWORD and she goes to space or Mar-Vell asks her to go to space or she just gets her Kree powers and decides Hey, I want to go to space.

I'm not sure we want multiple humans in the movie, though.

she's not 100% human though. She's a Kree hybrid

 

[Snow Queen]

I just have a hard time imagining how they'd do that without skipping Carol's origin entirely.

Also, I'm a little wary of Carol's first characterization in the MCU being written by James Gunn. I love GotG, but Gamora was fairly generic, imo, and I've never cared for any of his other female characters.

Those are two reasons I'd be against it. Though I did like Ellen Page's character in Super, but that wasn't really the writing and just more in her performance.

On top of that, if it happened, I'd be very disappointed in Marvel for the first time ever having some diversity in their leads and both times having them appear in other character's films before they get their own film. Maybe that's just me though, as I've been side-eyeing them on that with Black Panther already.

 

[Havok83]

Those are two reasons I'd be against it. Though I did like Ellen Page's character in Super, but that wasn't really the writing and just more in her performance.

On top of that, if it happened, I'd be very disappointed in Marvel for the first time ever having some diversity in their leads and both times having them appear in other character's films before they get their own film. Maybe that's just me though, as I've been side-eyeing them on that with Black Panther already.

I dont see why thats a problem. Neither are well known characters to the general public. Most people do not know who Captain Marvel is nor the Black Panther. Having BP in Cap's fim and Carol in any of the other established franchises, only helps benefit both solos as it gives them much needed exposure. People will tune in to their respective films bc they will have been introduced to these characters and will want to see more of them and how they fit into the MCU. I think just dropping the solos with no previous introduction is a gamble and not one worth taking. Is it really a bad thing to want to give these guys the best possible shot to succeed?

 

[cph9fa]

Yeah I'm not sure yet how I feel about that but I feel like the clues he's giving points to Carol making an appearance in GOTG2.

I don't see him referring to Carol there at all. For one thing, he's repeatedly said that Quill is the only Terran-raised character he wants in this story. That's his unique thing, and he doesn't want to take that away.

Instead, he could be referring to, for example, some version of Mantis (if you take away the part of her origin being on Earth), or a female version of Starhawk (he's also said he wants more of the original Guardians), or Lylla the otter, or really any number of character of either gender.

That first tweet isn't some kind of hidden message about GotG2. It's just Gunn's reaction to Carol's reaction to a poster for his movie.

 

[Mike5575]

^
I agree. If anything, it sounds as if Gunn is going to explore the current characters. There are other female characters besides Carol and Gamora btw. Moondragon, Phyla-Vell, and Mantis to name a few. There's no reason to add Carol in the second film. Besides, how does Carol end up in another galaxy? Much of the script would have to be devoted to Carol and her backstory, which would steel time away from the Guardians. That wouldn't be fair.

With all that being said though, they could introduce elements to the Captain Marvel backstory, such as Captain Mar-Vell. The Nova Corps, in response to Ronan's invasion decide to bolster up their defenses by harnessing the power of the power stone. The power stone becomes the MCU version of the Nova Force. The Kree get worried, and what ensues is an escalation of force between the Nova and the Kree empires. The Kree responds by creating the nega bands, and bestowing its power on Captain Mar-Vell.

It All depends though. My theory above may not fit into what James Gunn has planned out.

 

[flickchick85]

I really hope he's referring to one of the many prominent female Guardians he left out of the first film. Especially Mantis. Mantis needs to be there.

 

[fixxxer]

The chances that he was referring to Carol are slim to none, but it's almost certainly a female character. I'd like it to be Moondragon (AKA Kamaria in the MCU).

Drax reacting to the fact that his daughter isn't in fact dead, but instead has been one of Thanos' adopted "daughters" (I believe either Gamora or Nebula referenced other "siblings") all this while would be a wonderful emotional beat to play off of. Also interesting would be the fact that Gamora will have an existing relationship with Moondragon without actually knowing that she is Drax' presumed-dead daughter.

 

[Mike5575]

I see some people mentioning Moondragon. Interesting thing about her is that she's rumored to be the woman behind Thor in the last Avengers:AOU trailer as he's being electrocuted:

https://theinsightfulpanda.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/moondragon-avengers-2-age-of-ultron-trailer.png

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

 

[Spitfire]

Nice t:

I wouldn't mind Gunn being involved in developing Carol's character as I think Gamora and Nebula are the best female characters in the MCU to date. I don't want Whedon any where near Carol as he likes his females emotionally damaged which is fine for Scarlet Witch but not Captain Marvel. Not sure about the Russos as they didn't handle Agent 13 very well but did an excellent job introducing new characters like Falcon and Winter Soldier.

 

[Mike5575]

Nice t:

I wouldn't mind Gunn being involved in developing Carol's character as I think Gamora and Nebula are the best female characters in the MCU to date. I don't want Whedon any where near Carol as he likes his females emotionally damaged which is fine for Scarlet Witch but not Captain Marvel. Not sure about the Russos as they didn't handle Agent 13 very well but did an excellent job introducing new characters like Falcon and Winter Soldier.

Well, Whedon did comment on directing a Captain Marvel movie and he said he's rather have to dig in the dirt to find his heroes. It all makes sense now. Black Widow and Scarlet Witch are all messed up ladies. I guess that's why we haven't gotten a Captain Marvel movie yet. Carol must be too perfect.

Gamora was alright. She seemed a little underdeveloped, but I think it had to do with writing the character as someone who played the cards close to her chest.

 

[Loki882]

Nebula was barely a presence in that movie. Calling her "one of the best female characters in the MCU" is a stretch to say the least (but we'll see what they do with her in the sequel).

 

[Mike Murdock]

Nice t:

I wouldn't mind Gunn being involved in developing Carol's character as I think Gamora and Nebula are the best female characters in the MCU to date. I don't want Whedon any where near Carol as he likes his females emotionally damaged which is fine for Scarlet Witch but not Captain Marvel. Not sure about the Russos as they didn't handle Agent 13 very well but did an excellent job introducing new characters like Falcon and Winter Soldier.

Carol Danvers has quite a bit of emotional baggage as well, though. From alcoholic father, to losing her memory (twice), to that whole rape thing. That being said, most of that will almost certainly never make it on screen.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

You think if the solo Captain Marvel movie is a success and gets a sequel in phase 4 that Marvel will create some new villains for Carol? Her rogues gallery is incredibly weak.