The Dark Knight Cgi Thread

[tigerknight]

let us not doubt nolan. He shall now be known as a director god!!! that's final.

 

[metalhead971]

I personally like it. It's not exactly what you'd expect, but it still falls well in the realm of "Two-face". Not as durastic as the Joker alterations were because acid in the face is a realistic thing.

Obviously don't expect to see a straight line down his face or anything like that.

- Jow

Oh wow, I didn't realize they'd let you see so much of his face during that WW footage. Awesome. Sounds like we'll be just as pleasantly surprised with Two-Face as we (well, most of us) were with Joker's adaptation.

 

[not_a_victim]

I have no problem with CGI being used to accentuate an item or shot, or when it is used to do something like remove stunt wires, but when EVERYTHING on the screen is CGI, it bothers me.
Like in all of the SM movies. So much of the fight scenes were CGI, that when it would switch back over to real action, it was jarring.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Perhaps it's a thumbs up to Nolan that you don't actually realize how much CGI was in Begins. There were shots that were entirely CGI - including the cityscape, the buildings, the Batman, everything. All the bats were CGI - they never had a single real bat, and other stuff you wouldn't expect to be CGI like adding to the scenery or Gothams skyline. It was all done so well that the truth is we won't really know how many CGI shots were in the movie, because all we know is what they said on the special features, where they basically talked about making their biggest CGI shot with the train and Batman for a few minutes ... they're not going to talk about all the little stuff. But if you count CGI shots that aren't obvious, that tweak something for the look, who knows, there could be 100 in that movie.

 

[metalhead971]

Perhaps it's a thumbs up to Nolan that you don't actually realize how much CGI was in Begins. There were shots that were entirely CGI - including the cityscape, the buildings, the Batman, everything. All the bats were CGI - they never had a single real bat, and other stuff you wouldn't expect to be CGI like adding to the scenery or Gothams skyline. It was all done so well that the truth is we won't really know how many CGI shots were in the movie, because all we know is what they said on the special features, where they basically talked about making their biggest CGI shot with the train and Batman for a few minutes ... they're not going to talk about all the little stuff. But if you count CGI shots that aren't obvious, that tweak something for the look, who knows, there could be 100 in that movie.

So freakin true. Just another reason why BB is the balls.

 

[sad lieutenant]

2) Two face's scarring accident has CGI implements in it (but quick cutting will help that). The rest is prosthetics (i've seen it.) The only thing that may be digitally over done is a "socket" around his eye and the removal of the ear.

- Jow

You've seen it? More details, please!

 

[Jonathan Crane]

Special effects (all of them, including CGI) are perfect in BB.

Just look at this: http://www.dneg.com/projects/batman_begins_16.html

 

[sad lieutenant]

Special effects (all of them, including CGI) are perfect in BB.

Just look at this: http://www.dneg.com/projects/batman_begins_16.html

I hadn't seen that before. Thanks.

 

[Jonathan Crane]

And one more link: http://www.rsp.com.au/flash/portfolio/players/batmanPlayer.swf

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Perhaps it's a thumbs up to Nolan that you don't actually realize how much CGI was in Begins. There were shots that were entirely CGI - including the cityscape, the buildings, the Batman, everything. All the bats were CGI - they never had a single real bat, and other stuff you wouldn't expect to be CGI like adding to the scenery or Gothams skyline. It was all done so well that the truth is we won't really know how many CGI shots were in the movie, because all we know is what they said on the special features, where they basically talked about making their biggest CGI shot with the train and Batman for a few minutes ... they're not going to talk about all the little stuff. But if you count CGI shots that aren't obvious, that tweak something for the look, who knows, there could be 100 in that movie.

I stand corrected... (this is awesome!) there are actually 300 - count 'em, 300 CGI shots in Batman Begins.

London-based visual effects house Double Negative created nearly 300 effects shots for Warner's hit summer movie Batman Begins, although the fact that there were that many fx shots may surprise many viewers.

...

But perhaps the biggest accomplishment was integrating all the effects into the live action so that viewers wouldn't be conscious of them, which was done at the behest of director Chris Nolan.

...

Batman swings through the steam jets as he desperately tries to ascend to the monorail train. This shot is 100% digital. Double Negative developed DNB, a new rendering package to create steam plumes that matched perfectly with the practical effects on set.

UNALTERED PHOTO

100% CGI Re-built in a computer! Looks more real than the first one!

How would you break down the 300 shots Double Negative produced… what percent were animated, composited, etc?

All of the shots are composited to one degree or another. We finish all of our shots in compositing and it is the final stage of quality control before film out. Around 30% of the shots that we delivered for Batman Begins were pure CGI and did not involve any shot elements at all. The remaining shots involved compositing shot elements of some description with CGI enhancements or CGI environments -- the elements were roughly split between green screen live action and miniatures.

....

What was your favourite shot in the movie?

I was so close to the show for such a long time that it is hard to pick one out, but one of my personal favourites is a shot during the final train chase when the Batmobile, driven by Jim Gordon, is just getting ahead of the train. You see the car turn the corner and descend a ramp to the underground freeway; the camera follows behind it tilting up as it goes to reveal Wayne Tower in the distance.

This shot was never originally intended to be a VFX shot and did not feature the tilt action. Double Negative VFX artists completely removed everything above the level of the crash barriers surrounding the ramp and replaced it with a 100% digital street scene that blends seamlessly with the live action and which captures all of the complexity of the streets of Gotham. What was particularly impressive about this shot was that it was added to our list very late on in post production and was turned around in by the team in just under three weeks from start to finish.

So there you have it. That article was pretty badass, but I won't post the whole thing because its long. About 100 shots were completely, digitally made up! 200 shots were composed together with something in the computer! They even made the damn fog shoot up under the monorail, and made Batmans cape work! Unbelievable.

 

[sad lieutenant]

And one more link: http://www.rsp.com.au/flash/portfolio/players/batmanPlayer.swf

To paraphrase Gregory Hines: "Movies is magic!"*






* I was tempted to go with "Did I forget the heroin in my tap shoes again?", but it didn't seem so relevant.

 

[Judson Caspian]

Actually,

1) When crane was gassed that Batman was real (the ooze out of his mouth was CGI)

2) Two face's scarring accident has CGI implements in it (but quick cutting will help that). The rest is prosthetics (i've seen it.) The only thing that may be digitaly over done is a "socket" around his eye and the removal of the ear.

- Jow

1) His face was CGI also.

2) Yes, but you get my point. His cheek will be CGI too, since they had trouble showing his teeth trough it otherwise.

 

[metalhead971]

I stand corrected... (this is awesome!) there are actually 300 - count 'em, 300 CGI shots in Batman Begins.

London-based visual effects house Double Negative created nearly 300 effects shots for Warner's hit summer movie Batman Begins, although the fact that there were that many fx shots may surprise many viewers.

...

But perhaps the biggest accomplishment was integrating all the effects into the live action so that viewers wouldn't be conscious of them, which was done at the behest of director Chris Nolan.

...

Batman swings through the steam jets as he desperately tries to ascend to the monorail train. This shot is 100% digital. Double Negative developed DNB, a new rendering package to create steam plumes that matched perfectly with the practical effects on set.

UNALTERED PHOTO

100% CGI Re-built in a computer! Looks more real than the first one!

How would you break down the 300 shots Double Negative produced… what percent were animated, composited, etc?

All of the shots are composited to one degree or another. We finish all of our shots in compositing and it is the final stage of quality control before film out. Around 30% of the shots that we delivered for Batman Begins were pure CGI and did not involve any shot elements at all. The remaining shots involved compositing shot elements of some description with CGI enhancements or CGI environments -- the elements were roughly split between green screen live action and miniatures.

....

What was your favourite shot in the movie?

I was so close to the show for such a long time that it is hard to pick one out, but one of my personal favourites is a shot during the final train chase when the Batmobile, driven by Jim Gordon, is just getting ahead of the train. You see the car turn the corner and descend a ramp to the underground freeway; the camera follows behind it tilting up as it goes to reveal Wayne Tower in the distance.

This shot was never originally intended to be a VFX shot and did not feature the tilt action. Double Negative VFX artists completely removed everything above the level of the crash barriers surrounding the ramp and replaced it with a 100% digital street scene that blends seamlessly with the live action and which captures all of the complexity of the streets of Gotham. What was particularly impressive about this shot was that it was added to our list very late on in post production and was turned around in by the team in just under three weeks from start to finish.

So there you have it. That article was pretty badass, but I won't post the whole thing because its long. About 100 shots were completely, digitally made up! 200 shots were composed together with something in the computer! They even made the damn fog shoot up under the monorail, and made Batmans cape work! Unbelievable.

I am....le' stupified.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

Wow, that's awsome!!

 

[jtfaria]

totally agree with u, but cgi is revolutionizing our world.Its like technicolor made black & white ancient

Right. Like others here have noted, there's actually a ton of CGI in this film. The difference is, when you see a cityscape shot in Daredevil (for example, not picking on the film), it's mostly paintings and CGI. Cityscapes in Nolan's Batman are based on real city shots, real lighting, and real sets. CGI just fills in the gaps.

Then there are things you couldn't possibly get just right no matter how many times you tried to shoot it - and you know what: It's usually little stuff, not the big stuff. Take blowing up the hospital. Pyrotechnics have gotten to the point where those explosions can look just the way you want them to - BETTER than most CGI work, in fact. So, the best way to blow up a hospital in this film is to actually find a building that can be blown up. But check out Batman's cape in the trailer, just as he's coming down on that white van. Looks like a Neal Adams' drawing, or maybe an Alex Ross painting. Perfect lighting, perfect shape, perfect form. Fake! You'd never get that to happen just right if you shot it. Compare that to, for example, Burton's first Batman film. Batman coming through the skylight. Watch the cape. They did the best they could with it, with wires and so on, but it's just not the same.

Same thing with the Superman films. How does the latest Superman do all those rolls and twists and other maneuvers Chris Reeve could never manage? Yes, some of it is with a completely CGI Superman, but a lot of it is shot essentially the same way Reeve did it. The big difference is that the wires and cables and so on that allow him to fly no longer have to be hidden, as was the case back in the day. Now, they just get CGI'd out. In other words, it's not a CGI'd Superman you're watching so much as it's a CGI'd everything-around-him.

In Batman, because the buildings are (mostly) real and (therefore) utterly convincing, you don't notice that all the 'Chicago' signs are CGI'd out. Because Batman's cape is usually real, you don't notice when, suddenly and for a few moments, it isn't.

That's the right way to use CGI in a film like this, I think. You try not to use it in the obvious and expected ways, by building real sets, using 'real' props (the tumbler, the batpod, etc.), going to real locations, and doing real stunts. Then the CGI can be used to enhance and 'perfect' those real things, instead of replacing them. I think this approach is so important in a film like this one where, after all, you are basically engaged in making a fantasy come to life.

 

[Tvar10]

i like cgi when its done right. it was real good in BB when it was used on the scenery. i dont like the cgi in spiderman tho because it looks real fake

 

[bkey]

I think cgi works great when combined with realistic elements, such as in the Lord of the Rings movies, Batman Begins, and some others. It looks terrible and is really distracting when it is overused, such as in the Star Wars prequels. I think the look of those movies would have been much better if they had used much less CGI. So I really like Nolan's approach in respect to the cgi.

 

[Jonathan Crane]

1) His face was CGI also.

No, it wasn't. There was movie from set, and he was wearing a make-up and full scary costume, but saddly I don't have it.

 

[metalhead971]

How in the fiery hell did it take us this long to realize just how incredible the CGI work in Begins was? That article really opened my eyes.

 

[Secret_Riddle]

Just wanted to know your opinions about the lack of CGI in the BB and TDK.

Personally I believe that BAD CGI can overshadow a movie (I am Legend), so I'm happy that they have choosen to shot it all live action and just use CGI to enhance the look of the movie.

Personally I believe it was a genuis decision on the part of Nolan and Co.

Less CGI means added realism, and who doesnt love a cunning array of stunts?

 

[Phaser]

I stand corrected... (this is awesome!) there are actually 300 - count 'em, 300 CGI shots in Batman Begins.

London-based visual effects house Double Negative created nearly 300 effects shots for Warner's hit summer movie Batman Begins, although the fact that there were that many fx shots may surprise many viewers.

...

But perhaps the biggest accomplishment was integrating all the effects into the live action so that viewers wouldn't be conscious of them, which was done at the behest of director Chris Nolan.

...

Batman swings through the steam jets as he desperately tries to ascend to the monorail train. This shot is 100% digital. Double Negative developed DNB, a new rendering package to create steam plumes that matched perfectly with the practical effects on set.

UNALTERED PHOTO

100% CGI Re-built in a computer! Looks more real than the first one!

How would you break down the 300 shots Double Negative produced… what percent were animated, composited, etc?

All of the shots are composited to one degree or another. We finish all of our shots in compositing and it is the final stage of quality control before film out. Around 30% of the shots that we delivered for Batman Begins were pure CGI and did not involve any shot elements at all. The remaining shots involved compositing shot elements of some description with CGI enhancements or CGI environments -- the elements were roughly split between green screen live action and miniatures.

....

What was your favourite shot in the movie?

I was so close to the show for such a long time that it is hard to pick one out, but one of my personal favourites is a shot during the final train chase when the Batmobile, driven by Jim Gordon, is just getting ahead of the train. You see the car turn the corner and descend a ramp to the underground freeway; the camera follows behind it tilting up as it goes to reveal Wayne Tower in the distance.

This shot was never originally intended to be a VFX shot and did not feature the tilt action. Double Negative VFX artists completely removed everything above the level of the crash barriers surrounding the ramp and replaced it with a 100% digital street scene that blends seamlessly with the live action and which captures all of the complexity of the streets of Gotham. What was particularly impressive about this shot was that it was added to our list very late on in post production and was turned around in by the team in just under three weeks from start to finish.

So there you have it. That article was pretty badass, but I won't post the whole thing because its long. About 100 shots were completely, digitally made up! 200 shots were composed together with something in the computer! They even made the damn fog shoot up under the monorail, and made Batmans cape work! Unbelievable.

Precisely why Batman Begins should have won the Best Special Effects Oscar in 2005. The best visual effects are the ones that seem so real, believable and convincing you never really notice them.

 

[metalhead971]

Personally I believe it was a genuis decision on the part of Nolan and Co.

Less CGI means added realism, and who doesnt love a cunning array of stunts?

LOL, love that word play there dude. Hilarious.

 

[jtfaria]

All the bats were CGI - they never had a single real bat

I recall reading somewhere that there WERE a few real bats in that cave (which was of course a set built for the film). But most of them were indeed fake, and your basic points are on-target.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

But check out Batman's cape in the trailer, just as he's coming down on that white van. Looks like a Neal Adams' drawing, or maybe an Alex Ross painting. Perfect lighting, perfect shape, perfect form. Fake! You'd never get that to happen just right if you shot it. Compare that to, for example, Burton's first Batman film. Batman coming through the skylight. Watch the cape. They did the best they could with it, with wires and so on, but it's just not the same.

That's actually part of my argument for why I respect what Tim Burton did so much. He didn't have CGI... so yah, a lot of stuff looked completely weird like Batmans wings springing out with actual springs in Returns... but then here comes Nolan 15 years later, and people think this movie was 100% live action and he's just such an artist that he always shoots Batmans cape to look perfectly with that camera. People don't know there are 300 CGI shots in this movie, how many fake Batmans and fake capes there are. Burton obviously didn't have those tricks, so it's all to easy to look back to '89 or '92 and say "Oh it's so cheesy and fake looking... Nolans Batman is so much more REAL!" Guess it depends on your definition of real when you have to use massive amounts of CGI in order to create 'reality.'

I mean, I admit BB looks good - it looks freaking amazing, its the best LOOKING Batman film to date, I'm just saying, doing a superhero flick w/o the CGI is like having your hands tied behind your back! I have to respect that as a film buff. Now days with a budget you can do anything and Nolan clearly took full advantage of that without making it obvious.

 

[DieSmiling]

I'll be honest, I'm a victim of my generation -- I love CGI. At least, I love cool CGI. It enables you to have incredible shots and do incredible things that you could otherwise never do in a movie. Someday, I would also like to see a Batman movie done with lots of CGI -- a direct from the comic book feel on green screen, done in the style of Sin City.

That said, I love the way Nolan has done the movies with the focus on realism, and due to that, I have no problem with the limited amount of CGI used. It definitely gives the movies a different feel than your typical action movie these days, and gives them a sense of legitimacy you don't often see in superhero movies.