The Mandalorian Chapter Thirteen Spoiler Discussion

[Snow Queen]

Kennedy makes the post-2012 Star Wars people like as much as the post-2012 Star Wars people don't like.

This was Darth at the end of TFA, and what Snow Queen will look like when she finally sees Sabine in live action.

I don't know, with my luck, they'd cast Ruby Rose for this too.

 

[Herolee10]

 

[Drizzle]

You just described every single Star Wars project under the Disney banner. Everyone involved with Star Wars is a fan. Everyone. They all have their stories growing up. Name me the non-Star Wars fan involved with any Disney production so far. Name one. If your answer is Rian Johnson, that's obviously incorrect.

“You technically could call Ron Howard a Star Wars fan, but it’s not the same as the other filmmakers who saw them as kids! He was 22 when ANH came out so he didn’t see it as a young Opie with childlike wonder, he saw it as a grown and jaded Richie Cunningham.”
- A basement-dwelling neckbeard, probably

 

[Snow Queen]

I thought there was plenty of implied horror ala Carpenter style... plus the elegance of these fights tops anything from TROS.

I mean, didn't we see people get melted alive in the season premiere or am I misremembering? Show doesn't really feel like it's holding back any more than the rest of Star Wars.

 

[antsman41]

Kennedy makes the post-2012 Star Wars people like as much as the post-2012 Star Wars people don't like.



I don't know, with my luck, they'd cast Ruby Rose for this too.

The Log from Twin Peaks has more range.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Kennedy makes the post-2012 Star Wars people like as much as the post-2012 Star Wars people don't like.



I don't know, with my luck, they'd cast Ruby Rose for this too.

Darth, @Roose Bolton, @Snow Queen, and @Perfect Cell walk into a bar. They find Luke Skywalker, Mitth'raw'nuruodo and Sabine Wren there. Darth and Roose each go to chill with their bros, while the two Canadians proceed to have the worst hockey fight in history for Sabine's attention. Be careful PC. Snow fights dirty. And by dirty, I mean she uses magical ice powers and low blows.

 

[Filmfan93]

Well not to derail this thread, but I don't see the likes of Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams being fans of the mythology.

On the contrary, they appear to be bigger fans of the franchise (brand name, nostalgia). Hence, why the story in the sequel trilogy felt like a rehash of old ideas.

"Rogue One", "Solo", and "The Mandalorian" actually had creators that did their research, while adding new layers to the established mythology/canon.

I'm fairly certain that if Jon and Dave had been in charge of the sequel trilogy, then more people would have a positive feelings about it today.

This.

Abrams and Johnson certainly made box office hits, but in no way did they seem to expand on the lore the same way Filoni and Favreau do and with the same novelty, passion and boldness.

Abrams in particular re-hashed ANH with TFA and then did damage control with TROS. Johnson certainly tried something new, but almost ruined a beloved for many childhood hero in his way.

This comes from a guy that watched TFA 7 times at the cinema and TLJ - 8 respectively. I like these films a lot, but can't help to think what could've been with more devoted people who weren't afraid to both take risks (where due) and to listen what fans want.

Rogue One.. is another beast. That is probably the best SW film since the Lucasfilm purchase.

 

[Snow Queen]

Darth, @Roose Bolton, @Snow Queen, and @Perfect Cell walk into a bar. They find Luke Skywalker, Mitth'raw'nuruodo and Sabine Wren there. Darth and Roose each go to chill with their bros, while the two Canadians proceed to have the worst hockey fight in history for Sabine's attention. Be careful PC. Snow fights dirty. And by dirty, I mean she uses magical ice powers and low blows.

Fight dirty, you say?
@Perfect Cell

 

[Schlosser85]

This.

Abrams and Johnson certainly made box office hits, but in now way did they seem to expand on the lore the same way Filoni and Favreau do and with the same novelty, passion and boldness.

Abrams in particular re-hashed ANH with TFA and then did damage control with TROS. Johnson certainly tried something new, but almost ruined a beloved for many childhood hero in his way.

This comes from a guy that watched TFA 7 times at the cinema and TLJ - 8 respectively. I like these films a lot, but can't help to think what could've been with more devoted people who weren't afraid to both take risks (where due) and to listen what fans want.

Rogue One.. is another beast. That is probably the best SW film since the Lucasfilm purchase.

I said this in another thread, but I appreciate some of the same about The Mandalorian that I did about Rogue One, the nitty gritty worldbuilding that doesn’t paint everything in total black and white. Like Rogue One having the resistance do shady stuff for the greater good, and The Mandalorian actually portraying Tusken Raiders as more than just one note marauders.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This.

Abrams and Johnson certainly made box office hits, but in now way did they seem to expand on the lore the same way Filoni and Favreau do and with the same novelty, passion and boldness.

Abrams in particular re-hashed ANH with TFA and then did damage control with TROS. Johnson certainly tried something new, but almost ruined a beloved for many childhood hero in his way.

This comes from a guy that watched TFA 7 times at the cinema and TLJ - 8 respectively. I like these films a lot, but can't help to think what could've been with more devoted people who weren't afraid to both take risks (where due) and to listen what fans want.

Rogue One.. is another beast. That is probably the best SW film since the Lucasfilm purchase.

The problem with all 5 films so far have been time constraints do to when the films needed to be delivered. It is why Star Wars became a Christmas film series. Because the end of 2015 was the farthest JJ could get them to push it back. That said, are we really arguing world building and expansion of mythos between films and television series?

Also this has become a different argument over devotion and listening to what fans want. The last bit in particular is pretty interesting considering this then becomes a subject of which fans?

 

[gohei_]

This was indeed a really good episode, but I am really curious to how it would have been if someone else was cast as Ahsoka. Nothing against Dawson but there was something missing if you ask me.

 

[Herolee10]

This.

Abrams and Johnson certainly made box office hits, but in now way did they seem to expand on the lore the same way Filoni and Favreau do and with the same novelty, passion and boldness.

Abrams in particular re-hashed ANH with TFA and then did damage control with TROS. Johnson certainly tried something new, but almost ruined a beloved for many childhood hero in his way.

This comes from a guy that watched TFA 7 times at the cinema and TLJ - 8 respectively. I like these films a lot, but can't help to think what could've been with more devoted people who weren't afraid to both take risks (where due) and to listen what fans want.

Rogue One.. is another beast. That is probably the best SW film since the Lucasfilm purchase.

Agreed. I can appreciate the fact that we're getting new content as a result of Disney's purchase of the franchise.

However, I'm just not a fan of the creative decisions that were made for the sequel trilogy. Granted, I know that there is a toxic base out there that will bash everything related to the sequel trilogy.

Maybe it's just me, but I can really feel the love that Jon and Dave have for these characters/mythology whenever I watch an episode from this show. This is why I'm really hoping for them to make a show someday with Luke Skywalker.

If I had a choice in the matter, then I wouldn't want the ST to be the last thing that people remember the character for in the post Disney era.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Agreed. I can appreciate the fact that we're getting new content as a result of Disney's purchase of the franchise.

However, I'm just not a fan of the creative decisions that were made for the sequel trilogy. Granted, I know that there is a toxic base out there that will bash everything related to the sequel trilogy.

Maybe it's just me, but I can really feel the love that Jon and Dave have for these characters/mythology whenever I watch an episode from this show. This is why I'm really hoping for them to make a show someday with Luke Skywalker.

If I had a choice in the matter, then I wouldn't want the ST to be the last thing that people remember the character for in the post Disney era.

It's almost like you seemed fine continuing this conversation after someone agreed with you, and you could avoid the post pointing out the inherent flaws in your argument.

Again, please explain how JJ, Rian or anyone else involved in Star Wars since Disney purchased it didn't "love" these characters or Star Wars in general? Any creative decision you don't agree with doesn't mean they don't love the characters. If anyone is messing with mythos, it's Filoni with his living Jedi outside of Luke. But do you complain about Ahsoka walking around?

I dig Filoni. I love Jon. But they have both already made more "lesser" Star Wars then anyone else. But because they are used as a stick to beat others that people want to complain about, that is ignored. Like episodes 2 and 4 from this season. Or episodes 4 and 5 from last season. Go back and watch all of TCW and Rebels. It's rough a good portion of the time.

 

[Sithborg]

You just described every single Star Wars project under the Disney banner. Everyone involved with Star Wars is a fan. Everyone. They all have their stories growing up. Name me the non-Star Wars fan involved with any Disney production so far. Name one. If your answer is Rian Johnson, that's obviously incorrect.

Also, what point is there to be made with a production that Filoni is involved with using Filoni characters? Some will come to any Star Wars section to complain and will do so in the most nonsensical manner. You don't like something? Fine. But at least make sense.

Here's the problem. Being a fan of Star Wars contains a wide, wide range of people. Of different opinions and talent. I mean, there are some truly repugnant, regressive *******s that are Star Wars fans. Doesn't mean we should listen to them. And you can have completely different visions for Star Wars, and still be a Star Wars fan. Star Wars isn't one thing, there is no "one true Star Wars fan".

This.

Abrams and Johnson certainly made box office hits, but in now way did they seem to expand on the lore the same way Filoni and Favreau do and with the same novelty, passion and boldness.

Abrams in particular re-hashed ANH with TFA and then did damage control with TROS. Johnson certainly tried something new, but almost ruined a beloved for many childhood hero in his way.

This comes from a guy that watched TFA 7 times at the cinema and TLJ - 8 respectively. I like these films a lot, but can't help to think what could've been with more devoted people who weren't afraid to both take risks (where due) and to listen what fans want.

Rogue One.. is another beast. That is probably the best SW film since the Lucasfilm purchase.

Abrams made a live action Kevin J Anderson novel into a movie. How is that not one of the hardest of hardcore Star Wars fan...

I also think you are mistaking what a movie can do, versus a television series.

 

[Herolee10]

Here's the problem. Being a fan of Star Wars contains a wide, wide range of people. Of different opinions and talent. I mean, there are some truly repugnant, regressive *******s that are Star Wars fans. Doesn't mean we should listen to them. And you can have completely different visions for Star Wars, and still be a Star Wars fan. Star Wars isn't one thing, there is no "one true Star Wars fan".



Abrams made a live action Kevin J Anderson novel into a movie. How is that not one of the hardest of hardcore Star Wars fan...

I also think you are mistaking what a movie can do, versus a television series.

In my honest opinion, I would say that JJ Abrams is as much of a Star Wars fan as Bryan Singer is a Superman one.

I believe that both directors love the nostalgia that comes from the established franchises. That being said, I don't get the impression that either of them followed or understood the mythology behind the brand names.

Hence, why their respective films felt more like rehashes than original entries to the established lore.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Here's the problem. Being a fan of Star Wars contains a wide, wide range of people. Of different opinions and talent. I mean, there are some truly repugnant, regressive *******s that are Star Wars fans. Doesn't mean we should listen to them. And you can have completely different visions for Star Wars, and still be a Star Wars fan. Star Wars isn't one thing, there is no "one true Star Wars fan".

I agree completely. I think my general issue with this discussion is it becomes a game of gate keeping, and how seemingly the one people must respond to when "fans" are complaining are the most vocal or toxic. I made a joking post about those yesterday arguing on twitter whether Rogue One or TRoS is the best Star Wars movie. I don't agree with this obviously, but if others do, good for them and that doesn't make them any less a Star Wars fan then anyone else.

Abrams made a live action Kevin J Anderson novel into a movie. How is that not one of the hardest of hardcore Star Wars fan...

I also think you are mistaking what a movie can do, versus a television series.

I never thought about it that way, but now you have blown my mind, and I can't unsee it SB.

 

[Breogan]

“You technically could call Ron Howard a Star Wars fan, but it’s not the same as the other filmmakers who saw them as kids! He was 22 when ANH came out so he didn’t see it as a young Opie with childlike wonder, he saw it as a grown and jaded Richie Cunningham.”
- A basement-dwelling neckbeard, probably

1976-1977 What Ron Howard was doing at age 22
Directing and staring in his own movies. ... you?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

In my honest opinion, I would say that JJ Abrams is as much of a Star Wars fan as Bryan Singer is a Superman one.

I believe that both directors love the nostalgia that comes from the established franchises. That being said, I don't get the impression that either of them followed or understood the mythology behind the brand names.

Hence, why their respective films felt more like rehashes than original entries to the established lore.

JJ Abrams had 6 months to rewrite the script and junked a lot of his crazier ideas because he had to have a film done by December 2015, no matter what. And in doing so, he imo, made my second favorite Star Wars creation so far. He also wrote it with Lawrence flippin' Kasdan, which is why his Han and Chewie are so spot on, imo.

Your attempts at gatekeeping, with the guy who heavily borrowed from Lucas and Spielberg his entire career, is one of the most bizarre arguments I have ever heard.

 

[DKDetective]

Good episode, dug the action scenes and Mando's little relationship with the villager consisting entrely of head nods. I'm not calling him Grogu, you can **** right off with that.

Putting aside any potential stuff with Dawson outside of the show, I wasn't really feeling her here in the role. Maybe it's intended to be different for her because of where she is in her life, but that's not really the impression I got off it. It just never really felt like the character to me, unlike Katee Sackhoff - who, by the way, sounded just like Bo-Katan, which was a huge surprise. Her lightsabers looked great though. Her look was a mixed bag. The facial markings I really liked, the head tails they made the wise choice to shorten but they still look not so great in my opinion. Costume, I liked the idea of it but I feel like the single-tone colour made it look pretty bland and the fit was a bit awkward around the chest.

If they were going to do a new take on the character and not use Ashley, I kinda wish they had gone for longer montrals and head tails like Shaak Ti's to show Ahsoka's increasing age and maturity. The shorter ones felt like too much fan service to Ahsoka's Clone Wars-era appearance for my taste.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought there was plenty of implied horror ala Carpenter style... plus the elegance of these fights tops anything from TROS.

I am so confused. Are we talking about Revenge or Rise here?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If they were going to do a new take on the character and not use Ashley, I kinda wish they had gone for longer montrals and head tails like Shaak Ti's to show Ahsoka's increasing age and maturity. The shorter ones felt like too much fan service to Ahsoka's Clone Wars-era appearance for my taste.

I think the shorter head tails work from a practical perspective, and prefer them that way. But after the end of Rebels, where they made it clear Ahsoka's had grown, it feels odd they went backwards.

 

[Snow Queen]

Here's the problem. Being a fan of Star Wars contains a wide, wide range of people. Of different opinions and talent. I mean, there are some truly repugnant, regressive *******s that are Star Wars fans. Doesn't mean we should listen to them. And you can have completely different visions for Star Wars, and still be a Star Wars fan. Star Wars isn't one thing, there is no "one true Star Wars fan".

I like your way of putting it here. This idea that you can tell certain creators are lying about being fans just feels silly to me. This isn't an obscure movie franchise or someone claiming a little-known comic character has always been their favourite where it's a little surprising, it's ****ing Star Wars. It's an extremely popular 40+ year old franchise that gets constantly cited as an inspiration for modern directors. Not to mention that being a fan or not doesn't translate to good or bad movies. I wholely believe Rian Johnson is a Star Wars fan. I'm sure he loves the original movies and maybe some other corners of the franchise. It just so happens he also made the Star Wars movie I like the least. Doesn't mean he's not a real fan or anything.

For me, I'll say that stuff like Solo and this often do cater to the kind of fandom stuff I enjoy because a big part of my fandom for the franchise is Clone Wars. But that doesn't mean that Filoni and Favreau are any more or less fans than Abrams, Johnson, or the twelve directors of Solo and Rogue One. It's a popular franchise, I'm sure they all love it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I like your way of putting it here. This idea that you can tell certain creators are lying about being fans just feels silly to me. This isn't an obscure movie franchise or someone claiming a little-known comic character has always been their favourite where it's a little surprising, it's ****ing Star Wars. It's an extremely popular 40+ year old franchise that gets constantly cited as an inspiration for modern directors. Not to mention that being a fan or not doesn't translate to good or bad movies. I wholely believe Rian Johnson is a Star Wars fan. I'm sure he loves the original movies and maybe some other corners of the franchise. It just so happens he also made the Star Wars movie I like the least. Doesn't mean he's not a real fan or anything.

For me, I'll say that stuff like Solo and this often do cater to the kind of fandom stuff I enjoy because a big part of my fandom for the franchise is Clone Wars. But that doesn't mean that Filoni and Favreau are any more or less fans than Abrams, Johnson, or the twelve directors of Solo and Rogue One. It's a popular franchise, I'm sure they all love it.

He did not make Attack of the Clones, Queenie.

Solo and Rogue One only had 12 directors? That's less then i remember.

 

[flickchick85]

If they were going to do a new take on the character and not use Ashley, I kinda wish they had gone for longer montrals and head tails like Shaak Ti's to show Ahsoka's increasing age and maturity. The shorter ones felt like too much fan service to Ahsoka's Clone Wars-era appearance for my taste.

I don't think the shorter montrals were fan service, I think they were done for practical reasons because of all the action she had to do.

 

[Snow Queen]

If they were going to do a new take on the character and not use Ashley, I kinda wish they had gone for longer montrals and head tails like Shaak Ti's to show Ahsoka's increasing age and maturity. The shorter ones felt like too much fan service to Ahsoka's Clone Wars-era appearance for my taste.

I'm of two minds. On one hand, I think Rebels (especally the season 4 finale) actually went a bit too long and tall in my opinion. They reached a point where they felt like they looked cumbersome. So shortening them felt like a decent idea, especially for stunt choreography. Problem is, I think they went too short and it feels like it makes the look more off-putting. They're a size that works for if they had a teenager-or-so playing her in the Clone Wars-ish era. But put on a forty year old woman, it looks off balance.

It also doesn't help they chose on the animated shows to explicitly link the length with age.