The Dark Knight Christopher Nolan's View On Villains

[spideyman101]

We all know that Nolan's view on villains is undoubtedly more realistic then some of the comics, some of Burton's villains and all of Schumacher's. He tends to realistically progress the villains and show them in an atmosphere that makes them real! Like you could go to Chicago or New York and find them!

Now what are some villains that have been blindedly deemed bad but are still famous?
Penguin
Riddler

Now some may deem Bane and Freeze bad because of Schumacher's approach, but let's deal with these villains...

Why is Penguin considered a bad choice? Fatness, lameness, umbrella's, corniness and obviously the entire look! But let's deal with this. Penguin could be used in a Nolan film (in the future) and still be done right. Loose most of the fat (make him have just a little weight), loose ALL the lameness; make him a real threat to Batman and the GPD. Loose the umbrella's please and give him a semi-automatic machine gun and a knife! If you give a slightly chubby mad-man a machine gun and a black suit (and NO pointy nose and no deformities) and maybe make him a bit grungy and place the right actor on him, then I believe he would make a good choice. Maybe not a main villain... but at least a Mob boss like Falcone and Maroni... but loose the name... Oswald Cobblepot... like Joker, don't give him a name... just call him Penguin!

Riddler? This one's a little harder to realistically change into a Nolan villain. But it's certainly possible! First of all, loose the skin-tight cotton bright green suit with black question marks on it. This obviously makes him look like a walking disaster! Give him a dark green, leather trench coat, dark brown hair with a hair cut like this (not the actor, just the haircut):

and make him a REALLY evil master mind who uses riddles to trick Batman... and sometime lead him to the jackpot and sometime to disaster... let him work alone and sometimes bribe others... but don't team him up with Two-Face! Or anyone else for that matter... and loose the corny humor... let him be threatening! Cast Jonathan Rhys Meyers for Riddler and you've got a good villain!

Bane? Of course he can be a remade as a good villain... Don't make him a huge monstrous villain, but an intelligent muscular villain!

Mr. Freeze, if you look at the comics, could be a great villain!

As for Poison Ivy? I'm not sure she could work too well on screen... yes, she may have a good body, but I simply don't think she could work... Catwoman is really the only lady villain that could work...

Any comments?

 

[ND Irish]

THERE WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER BE PENGUIN IN A NOLAN FILM. EVER. PERIOD.

I vote useless thread

 

[Joker]

What are you going on by that? He seems like a character that could easily fit in a Nolan film, showing the transition from mobsters to freaks, as he's a guy who's really sort of the middle ground of that entire thing. Yeah, he has a gimmick, but he's also a very classical themed mob guy. There's no reason to change him at all from his comic counterpart.

And there's no need to make the Riddler bland and grungy. He's supposed to be flashy, and over the top, jut not in the way that Shumacher did it. The guy likes attention, he likes showing he's the smartest kid in class, and there's no damn reason to change that. He's got mild OCD in that he HAS to leave these clues, and as Frank Gorshin said in the old series, "what's the point of life without riddles?"

Some of you people are just incredibly thick, and taking this "realism" stuff too far. It's just change for the sake of change at this point.

 

[Joker]

See, I dont understand stuff like that. Sometimes, Nolan seems like the perfect guy to be doing Batman. Then sometimes it appears that he's never read a single Batman comic, or even heard of Batman before. Quotes like that are the later, as with the whole escalation thing, Penguin would be a perfect transition point from the mob to the freaks.

 

[Nathan]

I don't understand what would be tricky about the Pinguin. He's a small chubby guy with a pointy nose.

 

[That-Guy]

Yeah, I never saw the Penguin as much of a "freak" except in Burton's film. Really, the Penguin doesn't need to be all that made up for a film. Just get a short, pudgy guy who can be mean and intimidating, give him a monocle and maybe do some make-up for his nose to make it bigger than average but not freakishly ridiculous.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

Perhaps your thinking of joker-like camp batman forever riddler, but I never really thought of the riddler of ridicules, improbable or bad in the comics, people have a obsessive-compulsive disorder, there are intelligent people in the world.

If you think being crime related riddles is strange or impossible in the realm of reality, Andrei Chikatilo dubbed "The Butcher of Rostov" could not ejculate unless he was stabbing someone (ejaculating while he stabbing them), he killed 53 people as well as probably alot more unlisted people to achieve, that is in the realm of reality, this happened, the idea of man doing crimes with the obsession with riddles can happen in the realm of reality.

 

[ND Irish]

What are you going on by that? He seems like a character that could easily fit in a Nolan film, showing the transition from mobsters to freaks, as he's a guy who's really sort of the middle ground of that entire thing. Yeah, he has a gimmick, but he's also a very classical themed mob guy. There's no reason to change him at all from his comic counterpart.

And there's no need to make the Riddler bland and grungy. He's supposed to be flashy, and over the top, jut not in the way that Shumacher did it. The guy likes attention, he likes showing he's the smartest kid in class, and there's no damn reason to change that. He's got mild OCD in that he HAS to leave these clues, and as Frank Gorshin said in the old series, "what's the point of life without riddles?"

Some of you people are just incredibly thick, and taking this "realism" stuff too far. It's just change for the sake of change at this point.

So youre saying take guys who have had troubled pasts with crime, the mob, etc. and have them undergo a significant traumatic experience. sounds good for ONE MOVIE. ONE. you want to do the same thing but just change the name and tweak the accident and background. nobody would wanna see that

 

[Swordmaster]

See, I dont understand stuff like that. Sometimes, Nolan seems like the perfect guy to be doing Batman. Then sometimes it appears that he's never read a single Batman comic, or even heard of Batman before. Quotes like that are the later, as with the whole escalation thing, Penguin would be a perfect transition point from the mob to the freaks.

I always took it as Nolan saying he wasn't a fan of the character, though I could be wrong.

 

[Nepenthes]

that's a sensational haircut

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

No offense but if Nolan passes up on Riddler, Catwoman, Penguin, Bane, Freeze, Ventriloquist, and Harley than he is a buffoon.

Because (I don't really would want to see Catwoman reimagined or remade because I LOVE Michelle Pfiffer's take on her but wouldn't mind seeing a new take) those characters I mention need to be redone. Burton and Schumacher ****ed them up like a virgin cheerleader and I want to see the comic-book versions of them, the real versions, not some bastardized versions.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

I want to see a realistic re-invention of Catwoman, while maintaining the proper essence of her character. B:YO's take would be a great jumping off point. Penguin a british arms dealer ... as long as it doesn't get ridiculous and sci-fi like, I'm down. I love Nolan's realistic world.

 

[ND Irish]

and for bane the modern "realistic" story could possibly be the the bodybuilder gone wrong and addicted to steroids and HGH since its a big issue today. hey we can get Barry Bonds or Mark Mcgwire to play Bane t:

 

[Aviator]

I'd actually make the Penguin a quasi-ally of Batman, rather than the main villain of the movie. Basically, Bruce would be forced to tolerate the Penguin 's activities since his night club acts as an extremely useful source information of underworld activities. He's especially tolerated because he has info on a far more sociopathic and dangerous mobster (like Two Face or Black Mask), one that Bruce needs to take out right away. Of could, that wouldn't stop Bruce from roughing him up a couple of times.


The Penguin has provided this role in the comics occasionally, I don't see why it couldn't work in Nolan's universe.

 

[Joker]

So youre saying take guys who have had troubled pasts with crime, the mob, etc. and have them undergo a significant traumatic experience. sounds good for ONE MOVIE. ONE. you want to do the same thing but just change the name and tweak the accident and background. nobody would wanna see that

Uh...I never said anything like that? Seriously, learn how to read before you go replying to things.

I never mentioned the mob, except for using the Penguin as a nice balance between the old school of Gotham (the mafia) and the new school of Gotham (freaks). I never said anything about him having a significant traumatic experience.

I never said anything about Riddler having a trouble past of having a traumatic experience either. The guy has OCD, is obsessed with puzzles, and to show that he's the smartest kid in class goes on a riddle themed crime spree. Hell, you could even go the Batman: TAS route and have him doing it as revenge on some corporate ass who fired him, whatever.

 

[Joker]

I'd actually make the Penguin a quasi-ally of Batman, rather than the main villain of the movie. Basically, Bruce would be forced to tolerate the Penguin 's activities since his night club acts as an extremely useful source information of underworld activities. He's especially tolerated because he has info on a far more sociopathic and dangerous mobster (like Two Face or Black Mask), one that Bruce needs to take out right away. Of could, that wouldn't stop Bruce from roughing him up a couple of times.


The Penguin has provided this role in the comics occasionally, I don't see why it couldn't work in Nolan's universe.

That's pretty much a perfect role for Penguin. The mobster who really isnt all that bad, and just wants to make money. When compared to a guy like the Joker who's just killing people left and right for no real reason, a guy organizing a few heists and doing some illegal buying and selling isnt exactly public enemy #1.

 

[Hyden]

I'd actually make the Penguin a quasi-ally of Batman, rather than the main villain of the movie. Basically, Bruce would be forced to tolerate the Penguin 's activities since his night club acts as an extremely useful source information of underworld activities. He's especially tolerated because he has info on a far more sociopathic and dangerous mobster (like Two Face or Black Mask), one that Bruce needs to take out right away. Of could, that wouldn't stop Bruce from roughing him up a couple of times.


The Penguin has provided this role in the comics occasionally, I don't see why it couldn't work in Nolan's universe.

Big ups there, I agree, he works much better as a grey area middle-man than as an actual villain.

The problem with the Penguin as a main villain is not that he can't be made to fit the Nolanverse, it's that he's just boring

I think Riddle is kinda a wuss too, complex for sure, but not threatening

 

[The Mobb]

The problem with the Penguin as a main villain is not that he can't be made to fit the Nolanverse, it's that he's just boring

I actually think that's what Nolan means by "tricky". It's tricky to bring the Penguin into Nolan's universe and have him still be interesting. He'd end up some dude with an umbrella.

Nolan was basically trying to find a polite way to say he's just not that into Penguin.

I could see the Riddler, though. I think that his psychology would appeal to Nolan. Nolan likes obsessive characters. I think he would do well by the Riddler.

 

[Aviator]

I actually think that's what Nolan means by "tricky". It's tricky to bring the Penguin into Nolan's universe and have him still be interesting. He'd end up some dude with an umbrella.

That's why I suggested my idea. It doesn't need to be a big role, more of an extended cameo than anything else. They could actually have some fun with it, like showcasing the Penguin's absolute hatred of his nickname.

 

[Serious_?]

I dont know if 'creating the villian' would be difficult, I just think that finding the right actor would be the harder task.

Who would you guys like to see as The Riddler, Penguin etc. if they were brought into the next movies ?

 

[Eggyman]

Am I the only one who gets sick of all this realism talk? I can understand that Nolan wants to put this into a real-world setting, but saying that certain characters won't translate very well is just stupid.

Sure, some characters would be a bad idea. I'm sure The Riddler and The Penguin would fit in with the realism far easier than Man Bat or Clay Face. If the realism allows for tanks to ride tiled rooftops, I think it can han handle a fat guy with an umberella and a big nose

This is a Batman film. Everyone take a deep breath and say 'Batman'. That's right, BATMAN. How realistic can you get? A man dressed as a giant bat clearly has issues

Look at how Donner set Superman in a realistic world. Verismilitude is the word he used, and I think that's all Nolan's talking about. Setting the fantastic in the mundane makes the fantastic even more spectacular.

The end of this debate should be that if Nolan's vision can't incorporate some of the main characters of the Bat world into his movies, then should he really be holding this franchise? No, he shouldn't. However, I don't believe that this subject is the fault of Mr Nolan. It's us lot, taking his words to the extreem.

We've all got to get a grip and remember that although these are gritty films, they are still comic book films. Repeat with me: BATMAN.

And remember in the future, if you have reason to doubt Mr Nolan, it's alll part of the plaaan

I'm done with teh wafflez

 

[CFE]

If you give a slightly chubby mad-man a machine gun and a black suit (and NO pointy nose and no deformities)...

Then it wouldn't be the Penguin...

Penguin...

NOT Penguin...

----

CFE

 

[66 Face]

Yeah, I never saw the Penguin as much of a "freak" except in Burton's film. Really, the Penguin doesn't need to be all that made up for a film. Just get a short, pudgy guy who can be mean and intimidating, give him a monocle and maybe do some make-up for his nose to make it bigger than average but not freakishly ridiculous.

Yup. The best thing about the Penguin is that he's not a freak. Thats what makes him stand out from the rest. I would like to see him be a mob boss x's 10. Kind of like DC's Kingpin. He has his hand in everything and is very hard to catch. Maybe even make him a popular guy among Gothem while doing his dirty work.

Not to follow Burton but I like the idea of a Catwoman/ Penguin movie. Maybe Catwoman could steal from the Penguin and Batman could protect her from him. Or maybe a Penguin/ Two Face war where Batman protects Dent but fights Two Face at the same time.

To be honest I would love to see Nolan take on a different character like Freeze or even Man Bat. I like how he handled SciFi in The Prestige, so I think he would do these characters justice.

Oh and Ian McShane for the Penguin!!!!

 

[Armored Avenger]

I think the Penguin could work well in a Nolan Batman film. He is a great link between the Mob and the Freaks of Gotham

 

[Hazelnut624]

nolan has a good realistic approach on how he does the villains.
and i think two great villains that would fall along his approach are the ventriloquist and scareface and blackmask, and i guess i could see the riddler if done correctly.