Conan - Part 1

[spider_rob]

Snuck into this movie after Fright Night. Stayed long enough to see Mamoa as Conan. Other than Momoa, what I saw was pure crap.

Went home after that and popped in the ol' Arnie version. Big contrast in quality compared to Nispel's godawful mess. Direction, cinematography, writing, action, music all vastly superior in the Arnie version.

Good example: Opening with the forging of the sword in the Arnie movie. It tells you everything you need to know about the Cimmerian's way of life without a line of dialogue. It's beautifully shot and the music carries everything.

In Nispel's version, everything seems filmed and written by a 15 year old with ADD. Unneeded shaky cam, unrealistic spurting blood, cheesy "NOOOOO!' death scenes, crappy music and crappy acting (why is kid Conan a psychopath?).

 

[C. Lee]

you can only enjoy the Arnold Conan films if you're drunk and partially passed out.

I've never been drunk nor even partially passed out....but I enjoy the Arnold movie whenever I see it. I don't feel it portrays Conan the way he was written by REH....but that doesn't keep me from enjoying it as one of the best sword and sorcery movies ever made.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Aye, the Arnie Conan film is a quality piece of work, I was just listening to a bit of the s/track there, i have the one track from it on my computer.

and aye, he does not feel like conan so much, but it is still very enjoyable.
I love that bit in the temple when the three of them are done up in that crazy zig zag war paint, and that big dude with the moustache says '....YOU!' when he spies Conan, who he thinks they have killed, and the main theme tune kicks in again, as Arnie swings his sword around in a great pose ready for action, that is probably my fav moment in the entire movie, the s/track makes that moment.

it is a pain in the neck though, i have heard it on youtube, and the soundtrack album has a different mix for the main theme that is not as powerful as the mix in the movie, so I'd need to get that transferred from the dvd if I wanted to get up in the morning and have that blasting out of my stereo as I did my routine to my Arnie work out videos.

 

[C. Lee]

I've had the soundtrack from Arnold's Conan since it first came out on vinyl in the 80's....around 10 years ago I got the CD of it....Basil Polidouris does great music, and this is my favorite work of his.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Aye, it is one of the all time greats, just a real exotic sound of different instruments that chime up that mythic days of yore feeling forthe film.

his robocop s/track is great too, but it's all those unusual instruments in the conan s/track that makes it stand out from the usual great movie stracks.

they used a track from it for one the Zelda computer game tv ads, that how i have it on my computer, as my nephew got ahold of it for that reason.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

you can only enjoy the Arnold Conan films if you're drunk and partially passed out.

Quite untrue, at least as far as the first movie is concerned.

I've had the soundtrack from Arnold's Conan since it first came out on vinyl in the 80's....around 10 years ago I got the CD of it....Basil Polidouris does great music, and this is my favorite work of his.

It's my favorite soundtrack period. The best description I've come across was that "it's the sort of music that would make even scrubbing your bathtub feel like a mighty and heroic adventure."

 

[regwec]

But the beauty of it is that it is not all heroic bombast. The string arrangement used in the tower of the serpent brilliantly builds an atmosphere of ancient and exotic mysticism. The moment when Conan hacks off Thulsa's head, and his acolytes throw down their flaming torches, captures this sense of relief and anticlimax.

Brilliant stuff.

 

[PunisherPoster]

The fact he remains an essentially noble beast is probably a result of his formative years in a barbarian community.

Well, either that, or it's due to Milius essentially being inspired by the Tony Curtis character in The Vikings.

As for Poledouris' soundtrack, it's easily the best part of that film. Despite being a huge Arnold fan as a kid, it wasn't until later that I gained a strong admiration of his Conan films. And it was entirely the result of Poledouris' scores.

 

[TheVileOne]

The main way was by not having Conan be a slave for around 20 years. Conan was a free man roaming the world, getting into great adventures, and learning all kinds of things....he wasn't strapped to a giant wheel for most of his life and then turned into a chained-up gladiator.

The Mamoa movie was truer to the original stories in it's portrayal of the history of Conan than the Arnold movie was.

Was his father killed by a bandit that wanted to become a God and his creepy incestuous daughter?

Was he a do gooder that went around freeing slaves, killing slavers, and righting wrongs?

 

[C. Lee]

Was his father killed by a bandit that wanted to become a God and his creepy incestuous daughter?

Was he a do gooder that went around freeing slaves, killing slavers, and righting wrongs?

What's your problem Vile? You asked

How was this movie more faithful to the original stories than the Milius movie?

and I gave an answer pointing out something that was more faithful. Please show me where I said it was absolutely faithful with no deviation at all. Because coming back with a post like the one I quoted above just sounds like sour grapes to me. I can go to any move out there that is an adaption of a previous published piece of work and point out the inconsistencies. But the thing is...you asked for an example of how the new movie was more faithful to the original writings than the Milius movie...I gave you one. Did this make you mad that someone actually answered you with something other than "Teh Ahnold moovie rockers uhnd has no mistakerz!!!!"

In case you bypassed my other posts....I love the Arnold Conan movie. It is my favorite Arnold movie. I have posters, store standees, soundtracks, tapes, DVDs and pressbooks from it. It's one of the top, if not my favorite, sword and sorcery movie, I've talked about how the soundtrack is one of the best in my opinion, and I still have magazines such as Cinefantastique and Starlog that did stories on it when it was in production. BUT.....I can still acknowledge that there was things wrong with it. So my pointing out something the new movie did better than the Arnold one is not me saying that the Milius movie sucked....it's simply me pointing out something it did better.

So if you want to go through and point out every single thing the new movie didn't do that was exactly as REH wrote it...then knock yourself out and do it. But you are not going to get me involved in an argument like that other than the response in this post. One day I hope it sinks into you Vile....someone can have an opinion that is different from yours....and that doesn't mean they are wrong and it doesn't mean they are your enemy...and it doesn't mean they are trying in some way to attack you. They are simply expressing their right to have a different opinion.

 

[echostation]

I don't think they stressed enough on Conan's religious beliefs... I think this sort of angle would have been something fresh and new... does he believe in a multi-god or a mono-thiestic hi hoodim deity/god?

The film was entertaining but it was too much CGI blood and the action scenes weren't really that new looking or unique... this film should have had some truly revolutionary action scenes... it didn't...

 

[PunisherPoster]

Since there are fans on the board who actually enjoyed the film , I thought it might be fun to post deleted scenes from the script that could possibly appear in an extended cut. Some are just minor dialogue additions, while others provide the kind of "breather" most critics felt the action scenes needed. There's also a few which did make the film, but in a slightly altered form.

Spoiler

1. Cimmerian Secret
Corin tells Conan to always remember he doesn't fight for just himself, and that there are secrets he will one day have the responsibility to protect. This brief allusion to the broken bone shard would've appeared right before Conan begins learning how to forge a blade.

2. Conan's Rage
After his father's death, Conan discovers a Turanian raider looting corpses in the snow. The raider approaches, but Conan surprises him by violently attacking with the sword of a fallen Cimmerian. Conan then howls with rage, raising the sword into the air.

3. The Wild Man
Artus and Conan calmly watch as the largest slaver, dubbed "The Wild Man" in the script, charges them on horseback. They banter back and forth about which of them will have the honor of killing the Wild Man. At the last possible second, Conan swings his sword and chops off the slaver's head.

4. Slaughtering Slavers
A longer fight scene ensues, with Conan killing more than a dozen slavers. This extended sequence wasn't in the script, but has been mentioned by Jason Momoa during interviews.

5. Teasing Tamara
After hearing their master's vision, Tamara and her fellow monks depart. Tamara's friends tease her about the special vision and the warrior she has been prophesied to meet.

 

[rogue trooper]

I don't think they stressed enough on Conan's religious beliefs... I think this sort of angle would have been something fresh and new... does he believe in a multi-god or a mono-thiestic hi hoodim deity/god?

Look, Crom is the god of the Cimmerians, yes. However, the belief is that it is wise not to pray to him, for he is a cruel god who will only bring you disaster. The one thing positive that Crom can do to someone, is that when you're born, he'll bless you with breath of energy. Supposedly, that's the way it was with Conan.

So, despite what the Milius film showed, the Conan from the books does not pray to Crom or anyone else. He'll say his name when in awe, but that's it. I do wish Crom would have been referenced just a little more in the new film, but it's not that crucially important.

 

[PunisherPoster]

I do wish Crom would have been referenced just a little more in the new film, but it's not that crucially important.

I could be mistaken, but doesn't Conan say, "Oh, Crom!" at least once during the battle against the Dweller? (It occurs as Conan is attempting to pull Ela Shan's cage back up, while simultaneously being attacked by Akhoun.)

Spoiler

6. Conan at Knifepoint

After catapulting Remo with the message, Conan cuts Tamara free and prepares to head for the Shaipur Outpost. Tamara resists the prospect of being handed over to another captor, but Conan assures her he will kill Khalar first. She then questions the wisdom of this plan, pointing out that Khalar has an army. Conan says it does not matter, as long as Khalar dies by his hand. When she still does not budge, Conan moves to tie her up. However, Tamara surprises him by grabbing a knife from his belt and defiantly staring him down like a cornered warrior.

7. Tamara at Knifepoint

At the end of the Shaipur Outpost fight, Tamara rushes to help the poisoned Conan remain standing. In order to keep Khalar and Marique at bay, she lifts the blade of his knife up under her chin. This forces Khalar to warn Marique back, lest Tamara be harmed. (In the script, Khalar also orders his troops back, which appear during the fight.)

8. Marique's Threat

As Conan and Tamara swim towards the ship, Khalar blames Marique for failing him. This angers Marique and she responds by threatening to destroy the mask of Acheron and discard the pieces into the sea. Khalar calms Marique's temper by acknowleding her talents and providing the approval she craves from him.

9. Conan's Recovery

Conan passes in and out of consciousness as Tamara tends to his wounds. The poison in his system causes hallucinations of being in the flames of a forge. He eventually shakes off the visions and Tamara's help, and stumbles out to the galley. (In the film, this is where he and Artus then sit discussing Conan's failure to defeat Khalar.)

10. Mapping Out Khor Kalba

Immediately after their discussion of Zym, Conan spreads out a map of the shoreline. Artus marks the way from Shaipur to Khor Kalba using shark's teeth and a tiny skull as markers. This is the same map that Artus later gives Tamara to take to Conan, although it's possible this scene was never actually shot. (It's bookended by dialogue that does appear in the film, which suggests it could've just been omitted entirely.)

 

[Sundancer]

you can only enjoy the Arnold Conan films if you're drunk and partially passed out.

 

[rogue trooper]

I could be mistaken, but doesn't Conan say, "Oh, Crom!" at least once during the battle against the Dweller? (It occurs as Conan is attempting to pull Ela Shan's cage back up, while simultaneously being attacked by Akhoun.)

He did, and Ron Perlman also mentions Crom. Still, I wish they could have gone just a tiny little bit more on details of Crom, like that he lives in a high mountain. Stuff like that.

 

[PunisherPoster]

He did, and Ron Perlman also mentions Crom. Still, I wish they could have gone just a tiny little bit more on details of Crom, like that he lives in a high mountain. Stuff like that.

Yes, considering Conan spends much of his time with a religious monk, it's a bit surprising they didn't include something along those lines.

Spoiler

11. Tamara's Vision

After telling Artus to give Tamara the leather armor, Conan is approached by the newly-attired Tamara below deck. She tells him she must go to Hyrkania, and Conan agrees that Artus will take her. She is surprised to realize that Conan no longer plans to use her as bait. They discuss the fate of Conan's village and Tamara tells what she knows about the Mask of Acheron. Throughout this scene Conan smokes a pipe and shares it with Tamara. She has a vision (similar to her master's) in which she describes the history of Acheron and the ritual Khalar hopes to perform at Khor Kalba. (This backstory was eventually reworked for use in the opening prologue.)

12. Conan the Motivator

There's a great line after Conan defeats Ukafa, where he attempts to rally the crew above deck: "Grab your steel, dogs! Spill some blood before you greet your ancestors in Hell!"

13. Battle with Khalar's Warship

After dragging that giant ship over land the whole film, Khalar finally gets to use it to attack Artus' ship at sea. (Or, he would have. The sequence was never filmed due to budget limitations.)

14. Tamara's Prayer

Once the battle has ended, Conan discovers Tamara performing a quiet prayer ceremony below deck. She asks Mitra to cleanse her of any sins which she may carry in her blood, and requests a blessing for Conan that his burden of pain will be lifted. Conan looks away out of respect and exits.

15. The Fallen Colossus

After Tamara catches up with Conan on the hill, they view ancient ruins which include the fallen remains of a giant Colossus statue. This reminder of a once great civilzation is what prompts Tamara to ask Conan if he believes they are simply doomed to chaos and ruin- and his "live, love, slay" response.

 

[PunisherPoster]

The last of the deleted scenes, including several alternate endings. Since the final two weren't included until the later re-shoots, it's possible that all of them were actually filmed at some point.

Spoiler

16. Ela Shan and the Dweller
In the Den of Blades, Ela Shan and Conan discuss their plan at a small table. Ela Shan explains the difficulty of breaking into Khalar's fortress, and alludes to a "Dweller" that is rumored to exist there. (The film included most of this dialogue, but changed it so that Ela Shan delivers it as they walk towards the fortress.)

17. Marique's Threat II
After helping prepare Tamara for the ceremony, Marique grows jealous when Khalar speaks of he and his wife casting all rivals into oceans of blood. As Marique holds one of her razor sharp needles at Tamara's throat, she asks, "And what of me, father?" Khalar again disarms her by promising she will reign as their princess and heir.

18. The Tunnel of Blood
After entering the water-filled sewer, Conan and Ela Shan find themselves fending off giant leeches. They search through the corridors, only to find themselves showered with blood and human body parts being dumped into the water from an opening above. This part would've further hinted at the Dweller's presence, and shed a little light on how it was maintained.

19. The Ancient Ones
Once the mask begins to live again, Khalar addresses the "Ancient Ones" buried in Acheron . This is little more than a few lines of dialogue, but it explains who Khalar is informing has a "new master". The sudden earthquake also makes a bit more sense, given Tamara's earlier vision about the mask summoning spirits and demons.


ALTERNATE ENDINGS:

1. Original Ending
Conan and Tamara flee the cave and she asks what will happen now. Before leading her towards the sea and rising sun, Conan stoically replies, "We think of life. The dead are dead and what is passed is done." (The line is paraphrased from the ending of Howard's "The Pool of the Black One".)

2. Alternate Ending
Conan carries Tamara outside the skull cave only to discover she has been poisoned by one of Marique's claws. After her death, Conan burns her on a pyre and walks solemnly away.

3. Final Shot 1
After leaving Tamara at Khor Kalba, Conan rides up a bluff into frame, then continues on as the camera pulls away from him.

4. Final Shot 2
Conan returns to the destroyed village and recalls his father's teachings. He symbolically places an unbroken robin's egg on the forge, then briefly spars with the sword as he did as a child. The narration ends with Conan raising the sword to the sky. (So basically the one which made the film, although they thankfully omitted the parts with the egg and swordplay! t: ) Both of these "final shots" contain the following closing narration:

"Hither came Conan the Cimmerian, his father’s sword in hand...a thief, a slayer, a son born of battle, to tread the shadow-guarded tombs and ride the battle-ravaged earth where he would one day rise as king."

 

[bullets]

In case you bypassed my other posts....I love the Arnold Conan movie. It is my favorite Arnold movie. I have posters, store standees, soundtracks, tapes, DVDs and pressbooks from it. It's one of the top, if not my favorite, sword and sorcery movie, I've talked about how the soundtrack is one of the best in my opinion, and I still have magazines such as Cinefantastique and Starlog that did stories on it when it was in production. BUT.....I can still acknowledge that there was things wrong with it. So my pointing out something the new movie did better than the Arnold one is not me saying that the Milius movie sucked....it's simply me pointing out something it did better.

I think Conan could be great improved upon , that film was far from perfect but it's entertaining and who better than Arnold to play the role at the time. I think I'll see this new Conan tomorrow.

 

[Zant]

Nostalgia can make any old movie look good,even when they are not

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Nostalgia can make any old movie look good,even when they are not

Ah, whit, someone said this to me about Indy Jones and the Temple of Doom, well, they were full of it just as you are. If this were true, then I would still like ROTJ as much as I do ANH and ESB.

You can actually like films for the very same reasons you did when you were a kid.

Hell, I only caught the Arnie conan film about 4yrs ago for the first time when I got it on dvd. Someone gave me a vhs of it over ten years ago, it was not very good quality, and I was thinking the movie was crap as a result, so I put it off about 40mins in, to give the movie a proper chance, as maybe it was down to the crappy taping.
and aye, I did think it would not be much cop anyway, as there was no way I thought Arnie would be like conan whatsoever, and I was right on that count, but wrong about the movie's overall quality, as i thought i might have been, it in fact it was a very entertaining S&S movie.

You don't like it, you are not entertained by it, fine, but if you can't at least appreciate the s/track, the set design and the fact it has been put together very artfully, then I have to say that you have a very untrained mind when it comes to art.

 

[regwec]

I am not old enough to have seen "Conan the Barbarian" when it was released, but watching it on DVD recently, I was struck by how well made it was. The script is very linear, and the pacing is excellent. The battle scenes are all small scale, but pretty well choreographed with some fun splatter. Thulsa Doom is a pretty compelling villain, with James Earl Jones very well cast as the mesmeric snake-fetishist. The score, as we have discussed, is superb, and there is some very creative imagery to be found throughout.

Of course it is dated in some ways: Thulsa's henchmen look like roadies for an aging heavy metal band, and Valeria's reappearance as a ghost is wholly unconvincing. It also strays from the short stories by having Conan as a pretty sympathetic hero who is almost passive and childlike until he decides to avenge his woman. But otherwise it has so many strengths- it even manages to make a strength out of Arnie's limited acting ability, by flavouring his muscular barbarism with a bit of humour.

So, it is an imperfect adaptation of Howard's short stories; but it is also an extremely well crafted and highly entertaining action adventure with a good structure and some fine production values. "Nostalgia" has nothing do to with that.

I have yet to see the new Conan, but I look forward to watching both DVDs back-to-back.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I'm getting a little tired of people telling me the only reason I like things is because I miss my childhood.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I'm getting a little tired of people telling me the only reason I like things is because I miss my childhood.

Getting tired? You should have a lie down. Maybe think of the good ol' days? :P

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Getting tired? You should have a lie down. Maybe think of the good ol' days? :P

Very funny kid.

In fact, I've noticed it's usually the baby's bum faced brigade who usually hit out with the 'nostalgia' line, either they are still in their teens, or have just hit their twenties.