Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

Final Results:

Caliban beat Squirrel Girl 6-3
Gravitron beat Power Princess 6-3
Photon beat Moon Knight 9-0
Savage Hulk beat Metachus 9-0
 
CoM.jpg


BRACKET 1,

Match 9:

Tana Nile (PHAEDRUS45) bio

th_bio-tananile.jpg


vs.

Madison Jeffries - Weapon X (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio

th_madisonjeffries.jpg


Match 10:

Ares (PHAEDRUS45) bio

th_442px-ARES.jpg


vs.

Kid Omega (PHAEDRUS45) bio

th_kidomega.jpg
 
BRACKET 2,

Match 9:

Frankie Raye (PHAEDRUS45) bio

th_12v3.jpg


vs.

Doorman (ZOKEN) bio

th_225px-Doorman.png


Match 10:

Human Torch (HIPPY FASCIST) bio

th_humantorchii.jpg


vs.

Joseph (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

th_joseph.jpg
 
LOCATION: Wakanda

Wakanda is a fictional nation in the Marvel Universe. It is one of many fictional African nations in the Marvel Universe, including Azania, Narobia, Halwan and Murkatesh.

(I wanted Wakanda's population to be around; but, as many of the warriors would probably not take too kindly to having intruders in their midst, I will say no human population. Of course, any other predators, such as any tigers, would still be lurking in the surrounding forests.)
 
Tana Nile vs. Madison Jeffries:

Here are the bios.

Tana Nile:


Fighting Skills: Good hand-to-hand combatant, trained in Rigellian martial arts
Special Skills/Abilities: Highly skilled in infiltration of alien races and in terraforming planets
Superhuman physical powers: Ability to increase her own density at will, increasing her strength and resistance to physical injury
Superhuman Mental Powers: Psionic ability to control the mind of another humanoid or to override another humanoid's control of his or her voluntary muscles (through "mind thrust")
Personal Weaponry: "Stasis gun" that can project concussive energy or intense heat


Madison Jeffries:

Powers
Madison Jeffries is a mutant gifted with the ability to mentally restructure glass, plastic, and metal to anything within his imagination. While wearing the Box armor he has increased strength, stamina, and resistance to injury as well as an array of technological devices such as boot rockets, various scanners, and assorted weapons. Madison can reconfigure the Box armor to any form he can conceive, including various vehicle modes. Using Madison's powers, the Box armor can also absorb additional materials to increase its size and mass as needed.


This really isn't much of a battle. Madison Jeffries has the ability to restructure glass, plastic, and metal into any wide variety of technological devices; but, Tana Nile's resistance to harm and ability to control the mind of someone, like Madison Jeffries, simply takes him out of the match. Plus, Madison Jeffries will be starting out blind, as Wakanda's layout won't easily be known by someone on the outside. Much of Wakanda is simply huts and the basic land. So, while Madison is using his mind to create a weapon or suit of armor to protect himself, Tana could use her own mind powers to instantly make him stop what he's doing. Tana Nile will simply see Jeffries, use her mind control powers to subdue him, and then use her Statis Gun to take him out of the fight.

Winner = Tana Nile
 
Frankie Raye vs. Doorman:

The bios.

Frankie Raye:

Powers Nova could manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire, surrounding herself in a flaming aura. Her portion of the power cosmic allowed her to manipulate all forms of energy, fly at warp speed, and survive in outer space.


Also to note:

Strength Level: Nova can lift about 40 tons.


In addition:

*"Nova possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles. The maximum amount of heat she can produce appears to be 900,000 degrees Fahrenheit....With a minor manifestation of her stellar powers, she can burn through any Earthly substance (with the exception of Adamantium.)....Nova can control the path of her cosmic fire to such an extent that she can project a sustained ring of flame at a fixed distance around any object."

*"As a consequence of her cosmic form and metabolism, Nova is far stronger and more durable than an ordinary human being. Although she still possesses a physical body, she is virtually impervious to most forms of physical harm. Her body automatically incinerates any projectile that comes within her fiery corona."



Doorman:

Powers and abilities
Doorman is a class-10 teleporter, meaning that he is capable of teleporting someone anywhere, but with the limitation that it has to be in the next room. His mutant ability operates by tapping into the Darkforce dimension, as several other Marvel Universe teleporters (such as Cloak, the Vanisher, Silhouette, etc.) do. Originally, his all-black appearance was a costume of apparently conventional material, with stark white eyepieces in the mask as contrast. However, since becoming Oblivion's servant, his Doorman "body" seems to be an assumed shape rather than a simple costume, and he can transform at will from this form to his non-costumed self. He also gained the ability to collect the souls of the recently deceased and deliver them to Oblivion; while doing so, he appears visible only to the soul he is collecting, and possibly also his teammate Mr. Immortal, who could perceive the original Deathurge.


What's interesting in this match is that both my opponent and I can tell you why this match is basically a draw. Doorman is a terrible character to have in this competition; because, let's face it, there isn't really anything he can do. He becomes intangible, he teleports people from one destination to another (but, it's very, very limited to an adjacent room, which isn't going to do anything to defeat someone), and he collects souls. There is nothing in his description that says how he would hurt or fight Frankie Raye. Meanwhile, Frankie Raye can stay airborne, with Doorman unable to ever come into contact with her.

Now, I do have an idea of how this match would go. Frankie Raye "possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles." Since Frankie Raye's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum of a star, it's very, very likely that Doorman's body does contain parts of this spectrum. If she can manipulate this energy, she can manipulate Doorman, effectively taking him out of the competition.

Most importantly, I will point out that Frankie Raye will fight this match. She will find some means to take Doorman out of the equation. But, if Doorman has no abilities to take out Frankie Raye (as nothing in his power description or reading my opponent's previous debate mentions), then he pretty much has to be considered the loser. Just to say, "Your opponent cannot hurt my character" is not a debatable approach. And, a draw simply cannot happen.

Winner = Frankie Raye
 
Doorman Vs. Frankie Raye

Doorman is dead, lets start off with that. She can do nothing to harm him as he is already an incorporeal spirit. Now this doesn't mean he can't do anything, or rather make her do things. Now they are fighting on a planet, which will limit Raye's power usage (she doesn't want to incenerate the planet or the country). Wakanda offers him some chance to hide, but as this is pointless he would obviously not bother. He would taunt. this guy is the cut up of the GLC. He is proficient at making comments to arrouse the passions. In this case, he'll be aiming to piss her off. The main point will be to get her to charge into things, just like he did with Northstar (not saying that he remembers it, I'm just saying, same strategy). and he can affect the physical world, and it can be assumed that as a herald of Oblivion, his status came with a bump in strength, just like Raye's did.
 
Frankie Raye vs. Doorman:

The bios.

Frankie Raye:

Powers Nova could manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire, surrounding herself in a flaming aura. Her portion of the power cosmic allowed her to manipulate all forms of energy, fly at warp speed, and survive in outer space.


Also to note:

Strength Level: Nova can lift about 40 tons.


In addition:

*"Nova possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles. The maximum amount of heat she can produce appears to be 900,000 degrees Fahrenheit....With a minor manifestation of her stellar powers, she can burn through any Earthly substance (with the exception of Adamantium.)....Nova can control the path of her cosmic fire to such an extent that she can project a sustained ring of flame at a fixed distance around any object."

*"As a consequence of her cosmic form and metabolism, Nova is far stronger and more durable than an ordinary human being. Although she still possesses a physical body, she is virtually impervious to most forms of physical harm. Her body automatically incinerates any projectile that comes within her fiery corona."


Doorman:

Powers and abilities
Doorman is a class-10 teleporter, meaning that he is capable of teleporting someone anywhere, but with the limitation that it has to be in the next room. His mutant ability operates by tapping into the Darkforce dimension, as several other Marvel Universe teleporters (such as Cloak, the Vanisher, Silhouette, etc.) do. Originally, his all-black appearance was a costume of apparently conventional material, with stark white eyepieces in the mask as contrast. However, since becoming Oblivion's servant, his Doorman "body" seems to be an assumed shape rather than a simple costume, and he can transform at will from this form to his non-costumed self. He also gained the ability to collect the souls of the recently deceased and deliver them to Oblivion; while doing so, he appears visible only to the soul he is collecting, and possibly also his teammate Mr. Immortal, who could perceive the original Deathurge.


What's interesting in this match is that both my opponent and I can tell you why this match is basically a draw. Doorman is a terrible character to have in this competition; because, let's face it, there isn't really anything he can do. He becomes intangible, he teleports people from one destination to another (but, it's very, very limited to an adjacent room, which isn't going to do anything to defeat someone), and he collects souls. There is nothing in his description that says how he would hurt or fight Frankie Raye. Meanwhile, Frankie Raye can stay airborne, with Doorman unable to ever come into contact with her.

Now, I do have an idea of how this match would go. Frankie Raye "possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles." Since Frankie Raye's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum of a star, it's very, very likely that Doorman's body does contain parts of this spectrum. If she can manipulate this energy, she can manipulate Doorman, effectively taking him out of the competition.

Most importantly, I will point out that Frankie Raye will fight this match. She will find some means to take Doorman out of the equation. But, if Doorman has no abilities to take out Frankie Raye (as nothing in his power description or reading my opponent's previous debate mentions), then he pretty much has to be considered the loser. Just to say, "Your opponent cannot hurt my character" is not a debatable approach. And, a draw simply cannot happen.

Now you are the one who has first invoked the argument "Their character can't hurt me" but you are going to accuse me of it?

second of all, with his power upgrade, his previous ability to hover was increased to full on flying with use of his skis (see GLX-Mas special). Second of all, his power was also increased to full on intangibility (Also GLX-Mas special).

Now as for Doorman's inability to do anything to her because she'd pass right through... WRONG! People only pass through him properly when he's pushed against a barrier. We saw in Deadpool (number I don't know which) that when someone enters him and he IS NOT against a barrier, things can get weird. Deadpool and Blind-Al were thrown through time and space after entering Doorman's body. This could be used to easily transport Frankie away from the arena instantly causing her to LOSE.

While they can't have a titanic world shaking clash, Doorman can still do stuff to cause Raye to lose.

Winner: Doorman.
 
Doorman Vs. Frankie Raye

Doorman is dead, lets start off with that. She can do nothing to harm him as he is already an incorporeal spirit. Now this doesn't mean he can't do anything, or rather make her do things. Now they are fighting on a planet, which will limit Raye's power usage (she doesn't want to incenerate the planet or the country). Wakanda offers him some chance to hide, but as this is pointless he would obviously not bother. He would taunt. this guy is the cut up of the GLC. He is proficient at making comments to arrouse the passions. In this case, he'll be aiming to piss her off. The main point will be to get her to charge into things, just like he did with Northstar (not saying that he remembers it, I'm just saying, same strategy). and he can affect the physical world, and it can be assumed that as a herald of Oblivion, his status came with a bump in strength, just like Raye's did.

Your strategy had a shred of believability with Northstar; because, he has shown to be very hot tempered in the past. But, Frankie Raye is nothing like Northstar. It would totally go against her character to start bumping into things due to an anger she's never had. Plus, she's been hit by people far worse than the damage of hitting into an object in Wakanda. Basically, this strategy just doesn't hold up at all against Frankie Raye.

Now you are the one who has first invoked the argument "Their character can't hurt me" but you are going to accuse me of it?

It's one thing to say a person's character cannot hurt your character because of how powerful they are. It's another thing to say a character's cannot be hurt and the character cannot do anything to hurt another character. Basically, this line of defense makes every battle Doorman is in a stalemate.

second of all, with his power upgrade, his previous ability to hover was increased to full on flying with use of his skis (see GLX-Mas special). Second of all, his power was also increased to full on intangibility (Also GLX-Mas special).

Both of these supposed "power upgrade"s do nothing to help Doorman win this match.

Now as for Doorman's inability to do anything to her because she'd pass right through... WRONG! People only pass through him properly when he's pushed against a barrier. We saw in Deadpool (number I don't know which) that when someone enters him and he IS NOT against a barrier, things can get weird. Deadpool and Blind-Al were thrown through time and space after entering Doorman's body. This could be used to easily transport Frankie away from the arena instantly causing her to LOSE.

While they can't have a titanic world shaking clash, Doorman can still do stuff to cause Raye to lose.

This is a very incorrect assumption. It wasn't Doorman's powers that caused Deadpool to get thrown through time and space, but it was "a freak interaction of Deadpool's teleportation device with Doorman's body" which caused this to happen. So, there is no chance Frankie Raye being teleported away from the battle.

Again, there is only one solution to a fight could always end up being a stalemate: The person who gives a reasonable reason why their character would defeat the other character should advance. I've given that, which I'll repeat below:

Frankie Raye "possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles." Since Frankie Raye's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum of a star, it's very, very likely that Doorman's body does contain parts of this spectrum. If she can manipulate this energy, she can manipulate Doorman, effectively taking him out of the competition.


Also, as Doorman has never fought anyone with Cosmic Powers, it's quite possible that those cosmic powers would hurt him if he tries to have Frankie Raye go through his intangible body. As noted, Frankie's powers work with the entire electromagnetic spectrum, of which Doorman's body could be effected.

The voters have only one logical choice in this matter. They will realize that Doorman's only move in each and every match he has is to remain intangible and using the exact same move every time, which is no offensive move at all. Thus, a person who cannot throw a single punch or make a single offensive manuever would end up stealing the competition; UNLESS there is reasonable proof, as in Frankie's cosmic powers, to show she could do something possible to prevent this injustice.

Winner = Frankie Raye
 
No, she can't affect him. He has NO BODY. He is an incorporeal spirit now. "angel of death" as he's put it. There is nothing to his presence that she can affect. not gravity, not heat, not light, NO THING in his person can be affected by her powers. She has no more "Reasonable proof" of being able to touch him that he has of being able to beat her.

and again, It can be reasonably assumed that as he himself is COSMICALLY POWERED (herald of Oblivion) That he might have had an increase in strength (Meaning he can hit her). also speed is on his side. as he is in charge of recovering all self-destructive spirits on the planet, it must be assumed he has a great amount of speed. and as I mentioned that he can affect the physical world (he's been shown sitting on couches and holding physical objects) he could ram her.

another thing, she isn't as strong as you make her out to be. She's only a class 40. that's fairly low by cosmic standards. So any assumed increase in strength wouldn't have to be that great to be able to deliver a serious strike to her. He wouldn't even need to be in the same class as her. just able to deliever a sufficiently powered punch.
 
No, she can't affect him. He has NO BODY. He is an incorporeal spirit now. "angel of death" as he's put it. There is nothing to his presence that she can affect. not gravity, not heat, not light, NO THING in his person can be affected by her powers. She has no more "Reasonable proof" of being able to touch him that he has of being able to beat her.

He is a presence; so, there has to be something that can effect him. Otherwise, he would be too uber for this competition. There is no proof that nothing can affect him.

and again, It can be reasonably assumed that as he himself is COSMICALLY POWERED (herald of Oblivion) That he might have had an increase in strength (Meaning he can hit her). also speed is on his side. as he is in charge of recovering all self-destructive spirits on the planet, it must be assumed he has a great amount of speed. and as I mentioned that he can affect the physical world (he's been shown sitting on couches and holding physical objects) he could ram her.

But, the name Herald of Oblivion is just a title and means nothing in this match. There is nothing in his bio that states he has great speed or strength. He's never shown these abilities. In fact, if his teleportation abilites of others is so lame (to the next room), then it's safe to assume his strength and speed are also lame. Plus, if you say he can affect the physical world, then it stands to reason the physical world can affect him.

another thing, she isn't as strong as you make her out to be. She's only a class 40. that's fairly low by cosmic standards. So any assumed increase in strength wouldn't have to be that great to be able to deliver a serious strike to her. He wouldn't even need to be in the same class as her. just able to deliever a sufficiently powered punch.

I've never stated how strong she is, just that her powers are very formidible. A herald of Galactus isn't going to be taken out of the battle if she runs into something. (And, as I stated, there is nothing in Frankie Raye's nature that says she would act completely out of character; so, that battle plan doesn't stand to reason.) Plus, if Doorman tries to "deliver a sufficiently powered punch," then he'll become intangible, and be up poop-creek because Frankie Raye's "body automatically incinerates any projectile that comes within her fiery corona." WOOSH! That's the sound of Doorman turning into ash.

Winner = Frankie Raye
 
What is she going to turn to ash? he's like a ghost. he can affect the physical world, more than likely, through psionic forces (not one of the forces Raye can control).

You are extrapolating and assuming that there MUST be some portion of him that her powers will affect. Well, I'm extrapolating and assuming that because of his set purpose (to collect self-destructive souls) he must have great speed. and because there is really nothing for her to burn, gravitate, or otherwise deflect, she can't block his blows except with her body, which he's aiming for anyway. and he doesn't have to go intangible to avoid her, because that is his natural state. he just has to make sure he can physically hit her.

And IF (this is a big "What if" between two slices of "For instance" with a side of "Yeah right") she can affect him, he'd have plenty of warning with his death sense.
 
What is she going to turn to ash? he's like a ghost. he can affect the physical world, more than likely, through psionic forces (not one of the forces Raye can control).

If Doorman can become transparent and use a striking blow, then he can be physically touched. One begets the other. And, considering he'd be hitting her fiery exterior of cosmic power, it stands that this is what he'd be connecting to.

You are extrapolating and assuming that there MUST be some portion of him that her powers will affect. Well, I'm extrapolating and assuming that because of his set purpose (to collect self-destructive souls) he must have great speed. and because there is really nothing for her to burn, gravitate, or otherwise deflect, she can't block his blows except with her body, which he's aiming for anyway. and he doesn't have to go intangible to avoid her, because that is his natural state. he just has to make sure he can physically hit her.

In the mini story I remember reading, there didn't seem to be any type of super speed. (Plus, this power has never been described to him.) He just seems to set off to the soul he is going to pick up. Plus, as I said, for him to be able to connect with a striking blow, you are saying he becomes physically transparent. Any physical transparency will mean Frankie can affect him.

And IF (this is a big "What if" between two slices of "For instance" with a side of "Yeah right") she can affect him, he'd have plenty of warning with his death sense.

With that big IF, there is nothing to say that she would kill him outright. But, if she can affect him, she would knock him out in some form. (Plus, he will not die, just regenerate at a later time.)
 
You still aren't getting things. First of all, the grammar nazi in me must correct you. The words you are searching for are "Tangible" and Tangibility". Secondly, When you are hit by Sue-Richards force fields, they can't be burned. Jean Grey's telekinetic forces used on the body can't be burned. That is the same sort of force that comprises his body as he is DEAD. he has NO body. what is hitting her will be some matter of psionic force, like with any ghost or telekinetic limb or such.

Now when he goes out collecting, he must either; A-teleport, or B-travel at amazing speeds since he has to collect souls from all across the world. He does not regenerate as he does not take damage. he may feel pain, MAY, but as he has no physical presence, she cannot damage him. and you are talking about taking him off guard. His natural state is intangibility (untouchable) and invisible.

Seriously, Angel of death, he's going to beat her. Heck, maybe he could pull her soul from her body.
 
Okay, this ticks me off. Just did a bit old write up and the slow Hype lost it. I should learn from my mistakes. Nah!

Attempt 2:

Joseph Vs Human Torch

Okay here's the deal, both of these characters know one another vaguely, but not by much (Onslaught Saga), however, both can research their heart out on the other and learn what they want. Both will go into this match pretty eye's open. The only thing that may not be known is by Johnny, that Joseph is more powerful than Magneto, but if he's preparing for Magneto, I don't think it matters, since both are very powerful. Johnny has a location advantage, but I don't think it'll help anything really.

Now as for Joseph, I want to clarify here that he is not a cheap knock off of Magneto. In fact he is more powerful than Magneto ever was (as stated and shown in the Magneto War arc). He was created younger so he has more "oomf" and he was created without the mental limitations that Magneto has. He can and did do things that Magneto wouldn't allow himself. He doesn't need the ampings and charges that Magneto needs to remain powerful, he's just got all that built in. This dude is Magneto Plus!

Now I went into a long story regarding the battle before, but I'll just get to the point on this one. Johnny will start headstrong as always, and Joseph will be a bit more passive, but it won't be long before Joseph loses his cool and goes all in. Once in gets to that point it won't last long. Remember this pic from last week (provided by Kytrigger I think)...

magnetofeat.jpg


Anything Magneto can do, Joseph can do better, and if he can control lava and stand right next to it without getting burnt, I'm sure Johnny isn't going to be much of a problem. He can withstand the heat, control the flames, probably snuff Johnny out with no problem. Magnetically grab him and just throw him around like a rag doll. Johnny's experience will make him a threat, but he's out of his league in this one on one match.

Winner - Joseph
 
You still aren't getting things. First of all, the grammar nazi in me must correct you. The words you are searching for are "Tangible" and Tangibility". Secondly, When you are hit by Sue-Richards force fields, they can't be burned. Jean Grey's telekinetic forces used on the body can't be burned. That is the same sort of force that comprises his body as he is DEAD. he has NO body. what is hitting her will be some matter of psionic force, like with any ghost or telekinetic limb or such.

Then, you need to show proof where he has this ability. (Plus, no mention of any type of psionic force has been described in your previous posts. I'll quote you as saying, "he just has to make sure he can physically hit her." Physically doesn't mean psionically.) There is nothing in his bio that states he can psionically hit another person.

Now when he goes out collecting, he must either; A-teleport, or B-travel at amazing speeds since he has to collect souls from all across the world. He does not regenerate as he does not take damage. he may feel pain, MAY, but as he has no physical presence, she cannot damage him. and you are talking about taking him off guard. His natural state is intangibility (untouchable) and invisible.

Now, we'll use a bunch of these IF statements that we both hate. IF we take an instance where he can travel at certain speeds when collecting a dead soul, those speeds might be correlated with him having to get those souls. Second, IF he can travel at high speeds, so can Frankie Raye; remember, she travels at great speeds for Galactus all the time. (And, no she wouldn't travel THAT fast in this battle...but, she could travel fast if needed. Neither would go too fast, as it could take them out of the field of battle, though.) Thirdly, IF he can travel at high speeds, it does nothing to the outcome of the battle, which ends up being my main point.

We can argue night and day about how fast Doorman can travel; but, it doesn't effect the match, because it's likely Frankie Raye can match his speeds and his speeds don't effect Frankie Raye in the slightest.

I'll remind everyone that the opening argument stated Doorman would win by causing Frankie Raye to crash into objects, thus making her defeat herself. This argument obviously doesn't hold up. It goes against her character. Now, we are left with supposing powers that Doorman hasn't shown before. IF we end up supposing a characters powers without proof, that will open it up for Doorman being able to have powers without any proof that he has them or can do them. (And, a big IF. IF he has all these supposed powers, then he must be using them for the first time. Frankie Raye will then have experience with her powers on her side.)
 
Ok, I finally pulled out my old GLA and GLX Christmas Special books. Here is what I believe explains Doorman's speed powers.

First, Doorman uses his skis to fly and travel a bit faster. (So, if he could truly travel fast, he wouldn't need those skis, would he?) So, if he can travel from place to place to pick up spirits, how does he do it if he can't travel very fast? This is explained in the Christmas Special. Doorman meets up with Santa Claus and Santa explains, "We travel in the same Ethereal Planes." So, Santa and Doorman use the Ethereal Planes to get from one place to another. If Doorman uses the Ethereal Planes to travel, he will leave the field of battle. (Plus, it looks like he enters it when he has a soul to collect; so, there would be a question whether he opens the Ethereal Plane or if the need to collect a soul causes it.)

Now, if Doorman uses his skis in this battle (though, it doesn't look like he ever really battles), then they will cause him more problems than good. Skis are cumbersome intruments. (Yes, they are full sized skis!!!) Try to imagine any hero you own fighting while wearing skis. Not a pretty site, huh?

Finally, as we haven't seen Doorman much (have we even seen him since the GLX Christmas Special???) then, he obviously doesn't understand his powers fully. (Just as his interaction with Santa Claus shows.) IF he doesn't understand his powers, and IF he has some of the powers that could possibly be speculated on, then he obviously doesn't understand how to fully use them. Frankie does.
 
Johnny Storm vs Joseph

250px-Htorch.PNG


Ok, so initially I was extremely worried about this match but having given it some thought Joseph doesn't pose half as much of a threat as i thought he did. While Joseph can probably fling every piece of metal in the surrounding area at johnny or use it to trap him this will have little effect. You see Johnny has been shown in the past to be able to vapourise solid rock or metal with a simple wave of his hand. So in other words once joseph starts firing of this barage Johnny will raise his temperature to take down the smaller fragments and vapourise anything too large. Now vapourisation is not like melting, it litterally turns the metal to vapur. While Joseph may be able to control molten metal or liquid metals such as mercury he cannot control metal vapour. Vapour has NO magnetic charge. this means with each thing Joseph throws at johnny he is reducing his ammunition leaving himself more and more open.

In terms of attacking, johhny would be able to melt any shield Joseph can construct, it would then simply be a case of using his flames to drive joseph near to a building (constructed of stone rather than metal) and collapsing it on him. Joseph has powerful control over magnetism, but when there's little or no metal in the viscinity he's near harmless.

WINNER: JOHNNY STORM!
 
Okay, this ticks me off. Just did a bit old write up and the slow Hype lost it. I should learn from my mistakes. Nah!

Attempt 2:

Joseph Vs Human Torch

Okay here's the deal, both of these characters know one another vaguely, but not by much (Onslaught Saga), however, both can research their heart out on the other and learn what they want. Both will go into this match pretty eye's open. The only thing that may not be known is by Johnny, that Joseph is more powerful than Magneto, but if he's preparing for Magneto, I don't think it matters, since both are very powerful. Johnny has a location advantage, but I don't think it'll help anything really.

Now as for Joseph, I want to clarify here that he is not a cheap knock off of Magneto. In fact he is more powerful than Magneto ever was (as stated and shown in the Magneto War arc). He was created younger so he has more "oomf" and he was created without the mental limitations that Magneto has. He can and did do things that Magneto wouldn't allow himself. He doesn't need the ampings and charges that Magneto needs to remain powerful, he's just got all that built in. This dude is Magneto Plus!

Now I went into a long story regarding the battle before, but I'll just get to the point on this one. Johnny will start headstrong as always, and Joseph will be a bit more passive, but it won't be long before Joseph loses his cool and goes all in. Once in gets to that point it won't last long. Remember this pic from last week (provided by Kytrigger I think)...

magnetofeat.jpg


Anything Magneto can do, Joseph can do better, and if he can control lava and stand right next to it without getting burnt, I'm sure Johnny isn't going to be much of a problem. He can withstand the heat, control the flames, probably snuff Johnny out with no problem. Magnetically grab him and just throw him around like a rag doll. Johnny's experience will make him a threat, but he's out of his league in this one on one match.

Winner - Joseph

I agree with most of this but it won't do joseph any good. Any metal he can throw at Johnny will be vapourised. To quote wiki

The Torch has the ability to fly in excess of the speed of sound, and has sufficient ambient heat to vaporize projectiles that approach him. The Torch has been observed to vaporize rocks, bottles, bullets, and even steel girders in fractions of a second

so he can fly so fast as to be near impossible to hit while vapourising any object that gets too close in a fraction of a second.

With regards the lava, lava is MOLTEN METAL. The only reason he could control it was because, like everything he controls IT'S METAL. This does not mean he can control the torch in any way, he controlled the flow and temperature using his magnetism which would have absolutely no impact on the torch. So this is a non issue.

Finally, while joseph is younger and stronger than magneta, this also means he is MUCH less experienced. Johnny and Magneto i'd put at about the same level both in terms of combat experience and experience with their powers. Joseph on the other hand can't even come close.

Using the methods stated previously Johnny will first take away his ammo , bt by bit and then take him out.

WINNER: JOHNNY STORM!
 
Ok, I finally pulled out my old GLA and GLX Christmas Special books. Here is what I believe explains Doorman's speed powers.

First, Doorman uses his skis to fly and travel a bit faster. (So, if he could truly travel fast, he wouldn't need those skis, would he?) So, if he can travel from place to place to pick up spirits, how does he do it if he can't travel very fast? This is explained in the Christmas Special. Doorman meets up with Santa Claus and Santa explains, "We travel in the same Ethereal Planes." So, Santa and Doorman use the Ethereal Planes to get from one place to another. If Doorman uses the Ethereal Planes to travel, he will leave the field of battle. (Plus, it looks like he enters it when he has a soul to collect; so, there would be a question whether he opens the Ethereal Plane or if the need to collect a soul causes it.)

Now, if Doorman uses his skis in this battle (though, it doesn't look like he ever really battles), then they will cause him more problems than good. Skis are cumbersome intruments. (Yes, they are full sized skis!!!) Try to imagine any hero you own fighting while wearing skis. Not a pretty site, huh?

Finally, as we haven't seen Doorman much (have we even seen him since the GLX Christmas Special???) then, he obviously doesn't understand his powers fully. (Just as his interaction with Santa Claus shows.) IF he doesn't understand his powers, and IF he has some of the powers that could possibly be speculated on, then he obviously doesn't understand how to fully use them. Frankie does.

First of all, the Skis are not seperate from him. they are a part of him. just like the flames that engulf Raye are a part of her. It also remains that she has no ability to deal him any damage. He's dead. Thusly he doesn't get hurt, he can't be struck and he doesn't tire. Raye does. She probably won't understand why she isn't harming him. Thusly she'll continue to pour on the attacks. she will exhaust her abilities and fall. She will be the more damaged of the two at the end of the tournament.
 
First of all, the Skis are not seperate from him. they are a part of him. just like the flames that engulf Raye are a part of her. It also remains that she has no ability to deal him any damage. He's dead. Thusly he doesn't get hurt, he can't be struck and he doesn't tire. Raye does. She probably won't understand why she isn't harming him. Thusly she'll continue to pour on the attacks. she will exhaust her abilities and fall. She will be the more damaged of the two at the end of the tournament.

Frankie Raye has to travel the Universe to find worlds for Galactus to feed on. I don't think she's going to tire very much by fighting Doorman, especially since there isn't any fighting that Doorman can do. And, again, the claims that she will be hurt because a) she will bang into objects and hurt herself or b) "she'll continue to pour on the attacks (and) she will exhaust her abilities and fall" is completely absurd. I realize the only possible way for Doorman to win is to say a character will end up defeating him or herself; but, it 1) doesn't go with Frankie Raye's character and 2) is not Doorman having any power, but just being the most annoying character we've had in the CoM ever. Doorman is just a character that we didn't think through well enough when we put him in this competition. As I said, the same argument used for Frankie Raye and Northstar will be used for every single character in this contest, and that argument just shouldn't hold up.
 
Actually the problem is that the argument used for Doorman stands true for Doorman against Raye. He really can't do anything to hurt her, just as she can't do anything to hurt him. With Northstar, the argument worked due to his temperment and current status. However with Raye it doesn't (however I do believe that she might continue to attack and wear herself out, but there is no proof). also the fact that she is out of his league to hurt means that he can't physically hurt her. but She cannot deal him any damage.

This is just a really bad pairing.
 
Sounds good. It sounds like we've come to the end of our debate, and we can leave it up to the voters.

Great debate, Zoken. It's been fun.
 
Johnny Storm vs Joseph

250px-Htorch.PNG


Ok, so initially I was extremely worried about this match but having given it some thought Joseph doesn't pose half as much of a threat as i thought he did. While Joseph can probably fling every piece of metal in the surrounding area at johnny or use it to trap him this will have little effect. You see Johnny has been shown in the past to be able to vapourise solid rock or metal with a simple wave of his hand. So in other words once joseph starts firing of this barage Johnny will raise his temperature to take down the smaller fragments and vapourise anything too large. Now vapourisation is not like melting, it litterally turns the metal to vapur. While Joseph may be able to control molten metal or liquid metals such as mercury he cannot control metal vapour. Vapour has NO magnetic charge. this means with each thing Joseph throws at johnny he is reducing his ammunition leaving himself more and more open.

In terms of attacking, johhny would be able to melt any shield Joseph can construct, it would then simply be a case of using his flames to drive joseph near to a building (constructed of stone rather than metal) and collapsing it on him. Joseph has powerful control over magnetism, but when there's little or no metal in the viscinity he's near harmless.

WINNER: JOHNNY STORM!

Thing is, Wakanda has a wide array of metal, and though Johnny may try to keep Joseph from it, battles tend to get out of hand. It shouldn't be hard at all for Johnny to find metal in a city, even one such as Wakanda. I know they have weapons and tanks and such (I remember seeing them during Onslaught and random FF issues through the years) so Joseph has that to play with. Not only that, but he's been shown attacking and throwing people about without metal. In Avengers 401 he was shown throwing Wanda and Pietro about on a whim. I'm assuming it's the iron in the blood deal that Magneto does so much. Johnny can't get rid of that and provided that it's there, he's Joseph's play thing. Can't fly away when you can't control your own body. He's also able to unleash waves of electro magnetic energy that will mess with Johnny. He's fast, but he still has iron in his blood. One fly by and Magneto can grab him and use the momentum to slam him to the ground, end game. Johnny's a great character, but he's still out of his league in my opinion.

Winner - Joseph
 
Thing is, Wakanda has a wide array of metal, and though Johnny may try to keep Joseph from it, battles tend to get out of hand. It shouldn't be hard at all for Johnny to find metal in a city, even one such as Wakanda. I know they have weapons and tanks and such (I remember seeing them during Onslaught and random FF issues through the years) so Joseph has that to play with. Not only that, but he's been shown attacking and throwing people about without metal. In Avengers 401 he was shown throwing Wanda and Pietro about on a whim. I'm assuming it's the iron in the blood deal that Magneto does so much. Johnny can't get rid of that and provided that it's there, he's Joseph's play thing. Can't fly away when you can't control your own body. He's also able to unleash waves of electro magnetic energy that will mess with Johnny. He's fast, but he still has iron in his blood. One fly by and Magneto can grab him and use the momentum to slam him to the ground, end game. Johnny's a great character, but he's still out of his league in my opinion.

Winner - Joseph

Thing is, even joseph has to be very close to his opponent in order to use this. Being very well versed in his opponent will do johnny a major favour here as he'll know not to get close enough to allow that to happen. As you say, magneto does it all the time, so johnny will be fully aware of this maneuvre.

Also while there will be metal around, once it's been vapourised it's gone. In other words it's like firing bullets from a clip. Yes they're very powerful in themselves but they keep ticking down and one shot and you can't use them again. So if you miss you're screwed. Only difference here is any metal coming into contact or even so much as near johnny would get vapourised. So he can just sit there all day letting joseph hurl his bits of metal at him and vapourising them as they come without breaking a sweat whereas jospeh will tire himself quite quickly with this level of exertion. Then once he's sufficiently tired, johnny brings down a nearby building on him. This is of course assuming he doesn't run out of projectiles first.

Johnny has more experience than Joseph and can use his power to almost totally negate joseph's offensive capabilities. As a sports fan johnny will be more than familiar with the rope a dope and that's exactly how this plan will play out :D

WINNER: HUMAN TORCH!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"