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Contest of Marvels II Thread 4
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hippy fascist
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Sersi
Thor (lol)
Clea(Yeah, I was stretching it a bit with that one
)
Morlun (I still say he could win this, just didn't have time to debate
)
Phaedrus45
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Final Results:
Thor defeats Nick Fury 7-1
Garrok defeats Morlun 7-1
Clea defeats Paibok 8-0
Sersi defeats Selene 5-2
Phaedrus45
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LOCATION: Hell's Kitchen (Populated)
In the Marvel Comics universe, Hell's Kitchen is the home base of the superheroes Daredevil and The Punisher, and the birthplace of Nick Fury.
To read up on this location, you can look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell%27...n%2C_Manhattan
Harlekin
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OPENING COMMENTS: Thor vs Garokk
Garokk may have hints of godhood but he isn't one, at least not like Thor is. I doubt either will know of the other, although Thor might be able to get some info via the Avengers files. Seeing as the area is populated, Thor will make sure to end this battle as quickly as possible, going for knock-out blows immediately once he's located Garokk.
There's not a lot Garokk can do to Thor, as although he has enhanced strength and endurance, they are on par with Ka-Zar, and not with Thor's class 100 strength. Although he's capable of drawing upon vast amounts of energies, Thor can not only match them, he can also absorb them. In the end, Garokk's just a big block of stone in human form, and Thor's an Asgardian Thunder God.
WINNER=THOR
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OPENING COMMENTS: Apocalypse vs Maestro
An interesting and tough match. By the end of it, Hell's Kitchen will be levelled, and all of the CoM contestants can be glad one of the two is eliminated. They both have amazing amounts of strength and intelligence, and neither cares for the human lives populating Hell's Kitchen.
Apocalypse has an undeniable advantage though. He has made the Hulk his slave before, and this alternate future version of him should be as susceptible to it. Even in the case this doesn't work, Poccy can match Maestro blow for blow, and not only has a mass amount of technological resources to help him out, he's got crazy endurance that Maestro will find hard to deal with. A healing factor's nice, but complete control over your molecular structure is good, if not better.
Apocalypse has proven his worth against the Hulk before and made him his slave. He can do the same to the Maestro.
WINNER=APOCALYPSE
wiegeabo
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Clea vs Sersi
Not only are both of these women very powerful, but many of their powers match up.
As for prep-time, if they don't already know of each other, they won't find anything (unless Clea can use a Scrying Pool). If they do know of each other, then they'll pretty much know what to expect.
Location could effect the battle since it's populated. But if Clea was concerned, she could enter the battle with a spell prepared to send all the humans away.
In fact, she could have a spell prepared to send everyone away, quickly taking Sersi out of the fight. An easy win, but not much fun. So what other ways can Clea battle?
Several of their powers cancel each other out. So fighting with them may not be very effective:
Both can fire energy blasts.
Both can levitate and fly to a degree.
Clea can thoughtcast and Sersi is telepathic.
Both are telekinetic.
Both can control minds (Clea through her mesmerism).
Both can teleport.
Both can manipulate matter.
Both can generate illusions.
Sersi can increase her strength beyond Clea's and has high invulnerability. She is also likely a better matter and energy manipulator, and telepath.
But Clea more than makes up for these couple of with her sorcery. And, being a Sorceress Supreme, she has a nearly unlimited supply of magical energy from which to draw upon.
Clea can enter the battle with all types of protections and shields raised to protect her physically and mentally. And while Sersi would have to fight through these protection, Clea can attack as well. This forces Sersi to focus not only on figuring out a way to get to Clea, but also on how to protect herself (since she can't raise her own shields).
But the fight will only continue as long as Clea allows it. Because she can just teleport Sersi away or, to be safe, send her to another dimension all together.
Sersi is one of the top characters in power. But so is Clea. And Clea can attack in such a number of mystical ways, while also protecting herself. If she doesn't just send Sersi away and end the fight nice and quick.
Clea wins
Rachel Grey is powerful, but she is going up against Magneto, one of the most dangerous mutants ever.
Powers:
Rachel is a strong telepath and telekinetic like her mother.
Everyone knows who magneto is.
They both will know each other so prep time is a wash.
As for the battle, the location definately favors Magneto. He won't give two ****s about hurting the people while fighting whereas Rachel will try and save them.
As for teh battle, Rachel is just outmatched. AMgneto has faced the actual Jean Grey Phoenix and has deflected her blass (when she was crazy with power too, not timid Phoenix) so nothing there isn't anythign Rachel can do to overpower him.
Here telepathy is useless against him as well, not just because of his helmet, but because he has huge latent telepathic power as well. (he can actually stop all telepaths form getting inside his head without his helmet too.)
Another major factor is that Rachel is still wet behind the ears. She is very powerful, but has never shown her true potential. This is how Emma Frost was able to defeat her, not because she was more powerful, but because she was more experienced.
Now as for Magneto, he can stop/kill Rahcel in a hundred different ways. He could just assault her with beams until one went through her, he coul dstop the blood to the brain making her pass out, or he could amp his strength up to Hercules levels and just punch her.
Winner- Magneto
Interesting match between two "gods" here.
Now, just to get it out of the way, I say "gods" because both are/were worshipped by people at one point. This in no way makes them more powerful or anything than other superheroes. I just hate it when people use the argument of "but he's a god" for anything because it doesn't mean anything power-wise.
...Okay, rant over.
Everyone kmnows Thor's powers.
Garokk is made of stone and can also exist as pure energy. He has energy manipulation abilities that allow him to shoot beams of heat, concussive blasts, and light. He can also create teleportations large enough to teleport an entire city. Beign stone, he is extra durable and has some super-strength. He is also immortal and has shown the ability manipulate matter onteh scale of transmuting the entire Savage Land.
Prep time is probably a wash. Both will know a little info on the other, but nothign too much, and I doubt it will really help either.
Location defiately favors Garokk just because their are people everywhere that will keep Thor from really busting out major power, and that he will contantly be saving.
As for the powers, while Garokk's blasts could probably hold Thor off fora while, I doubt they could really stop him. His main weapon, and he'll know this, is his teleportation. By teleporting Thor out of the area Garook has by far the cheapest win, but it is still a win.
He'll start by using his beams agaisnt Thor, but then swith to destroying the buildings around them. This will make Thor have to stop the fight to save the people giving Garokk enough time to create his teleportation portal. And the thing about Garokk is that his portals a large enough to cover a HUGE space, not giving Thor enough timeto escape it if he sees what's going on.
it's a cheap win, but still a win.
Winner- Garokk
I feel fairly safe in saying that Hell's Kitcen will be destroyed and everyone will be dead after this fight.
Okay, we have two HUGE fighters here in Apocalypse and Maestro.
Mestro is basically a future version of the Hulk. He is as strong as Savage Hulk, as smart as Banner, and as ruthless as Fixit.
Apocalypse has superstrength, healing, molecular control over his body (which is where the healing comes from) and telepathy as his major powers. he is also very smart and uses a lot of technology.
Prep time I believe goes to Maestro. Both know each other, but Apocalypse only knows the Hulk he has encountered, not Maestro. Maestro's fighting ability, smarts, and overall tactical ruthlessness is somethign Apocalypse won't know about.
Apocalypse has met Hulk and he subdues him long enough to try and talk to him. This is how he won the battle. he convinced Hulk (who was REALLY mentally fragile at the time) that he coul dhelp him get rid of the ghosts Hulk is seeing and ease his inner torment basically. It even says in the issues that Hulk just went along with it because he wants acceptance form a father figure and Apocalypse will do.
So, Hulk voluntarily went with Apoc. Apoc, never made him go.
Now, Apoc. will most likely try this again with Maestro thinking he is Hulk. The problem is Maestro is anythign but mentally fragile. He could very possible play along with this until he gets close enough to Apoc, and then justs start wailing on him. Now, this won't just drop Apoc., he is very durable, but Maestro's punches sure as hell can hurt him still. Apoc will obviously start fighting back, but will already be at a disadvantage.
They will then most likely go at it for hours punching and kicing the crap out of each other.
Another major thing to note is that while Apoc has very good healing, he has been shown numerous times that in order to heal, he has to go sleep in his chamber, or reforming himself from a puddle takes a huge amount of energy to do severely weakening him. Luckily for Apoc, the vast majority of his opponents are nowhere near Maestro's level so he can still fight them and survive long enough to escape. This won't be the case here though. Maestro will continue to beat the crap out of Apoc. and he can't escape without getting a ring out.
This battle will be brutal, long and hard. but wheras we have constantly seen Apocalypse get severly weakened, we rarely see Hulk like that, especially one as strong as Maestro. Maestro will jsut outlast Apocalypse in the end.
Winner- Maestro
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REBUTTAL: Thor vs Garokk
I want to point out that that wasn't the intention behind the opening line to my arguments. I just wanted to nuance the imagery of these two "gods" going at it, and y'know, work in a subtle dig at Garokk.
This I do doubt however. Not only is Thor capable of teleportation himself, Garokk's blasts really do not pose a threat to Thor. I'm sorry, but if these blasts can't even hit Ka-Zar, there is no way they'll reach Thor.
A cheap strategy (as you yourself admit) that somehow, Garokk has never implemented before. It bears repetition: He got beat by Ka-Zar. If Garokk's teleportation were that handy a feature, he'd never be challenged. Now, especially once Garokk starts to threaten human life, Thor is going to want to end this as soon.
Thor's an excellent multitasker. While the winds he summons save the innocents, he's going to go after Garokk and crush his stony hide. Teleportation is really Garokk's sole asset in this match, and since it seems he hardly ever uses it, I don't give that strategy much merit.
WINNER=THOR
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REBUTTAL: Apocalypse vs Maestro
You make a fair point about the way Hulk became Poccy's horseman so I'll agree that falls into the water. Once Maestro's ruse is discovered though, Poccy isn't going to waste time anymore.
Now I'd like to delve into some Poccy feats. While weakened, he downed the X-Men (including Colossus, a class 100) in under 60 seconds. As we've noted, he was able to restrain the Hulk, and he's even held She-Hulk in a choke (an incident in which he also proved that he can voluntarily seperate his head from his body and have it fly around, doing stuff).
He's indeed shown the ability regenerate from a puddle of ooze, while being severely weakened already. He's taken blasts from the combined fury of the Inhumans (including Black Bolt), X-Factor and Phoenix (Rachel Summers) without a sweat.
His psionic talents have withstood and beaten the likes of Jean Grey, Charles Xavier and Exodus. Not only do these telepathic and telekinetic powers show an advantage over Maestro, he's also got some insane energy projecting skills. Apocalypse doesn't even have to engage Maestro in combat in order to take him out.
Unlikely. Poccy will teleport out after the first few blows and bombard Maestro with his technology, psionic skills and energy blasts. If Maestro can somehow withstand this, it's only a few blows that'll down him, as he's done with quite a few foes on a high strength level.
Not completely true. To get the full effect, he needs to go to his chamber. But the "coming back from a puddle" thing was already while he was severely weakened (a state in which he had still knocked down a group of X-Men in under a minute), and he was fine afterwards, although a little weaker than usual
Nowhere near? Colossus, Black Bolt, She-Hulk and the Hulk himself. Poccy's powers go far beyond the physical. He can blow away Maestro with any number of combinations from his powers and rest (if he even needs it) or to regroup himself.
Something that is again unlikely. He's taken full force blasts from powerhouses before and not broken a sweat. The only time Poccy's come close to defeat is either because his sleep was interrupted or he simply abandoned his plan.
Poccy's not going to waste his time fighting Maestro physically. He's going to take him down via the variety of powers he has, including telepathy, telekinesis and even matter manipulation! Maestro is good and really smart, but this isn't his era, and the location is confined enough where his smarts don't play into it enough. Poccy has so much more than just the brute strength Maestro has.
WINNER=APOCALYPSE
I know, I just felt like ranting about that since I see the "but he's a god" argument all the time in places teh the DC/Marvel threads and it has always bugged me.REBUTTAL: Thor vs Garokk
I want to point out that that wasn't the intention behind the opening line to my arguments. I just wanted to nuance the imagery of these two "gods" going at it, and y'know, work in a subtle dig at Garokk.
I'll just point ou that the main reason Garokk never just creaetd a huge teleportation device to win against Ka-Zar is because he was in teh Savage Land, his actual home. he would have destroyed the Savage Land by doing that, including his followers, which are probably th eonly people he gives a crap about. He's not going to destroy his home and his worshippers to get rid of Ka-Zar. now Hell's Kitchen and New Yorker, different story.
And yes, Thor does have teelportation, but that doesn't really matter. I am very sure he could easily just teleport back to Hell's Kitchen, but even if he is out just fro a second, it's still a ring out. Being that Thor almost never uses his teleportation as a way to gain a cheap victory, I doubt he would try doing this first.
Like I said. cheap, but ridiculously effective if properly implemented.
I don't give your face much merit! 
t:
But seriosly, I have said why he doesn't use his teleportation that often because 99% of the time his battles take place in teh Savage Land, the one soft spot in that stony heart of his. He even gave his life to save teh Savage Land (even though he came back since he is immortal, but I don't think he knew he would come back).
Thor is good at multitasking, but read the description of of his teelportation again, it is so large that it can teelport an entire city. All he has to do is use it on half of hell's kitchen and there is no way Thor's winds are saving all those people, I don't care how strong they are. We see his winds (which he uses about as often as Garokk uses his teleportation) save 2 or 3 people, not a couple hundred.
I agree that the teleportation is really Garokk's only major weapon so if they don't think he can teleport Thor then he is basically screwed. But Thor IS susceptible to teleportation, and he has rarely ever seen a teleportation the size of the one Garokk is capable of performing (which when you think about it is really pretty impressive). it is an incredibly difficult thing to defend against, that is made even more difficult by the fact that Thor would try and save every single person he could before even thinking about saving himself. Add these facts in and you have a very probably scenario of how Garokk can actually beat Thor.
Winner- Garokk
Daredevil is so going to cry for like 3 comics straight once he sees the hell brought on hell's kitchen.
Disagree obviously. Poccy talked Hulk into being a horseman, he didn't force him or anything most liekly because he knew he couldn't. His strength and endurance aren't higher than Maestro's, they are just near or equal to it, so it won't be anything too difficult to deal with. Maestro has Savage Hulk's healing power which is ridiculous in it's own right, and Poccy's healing is very good, yet we always see him having to reform himself making him incredibly weak.His molecualr control is a very good weapon, but it doesn't help him if nothing he changes into can actually hurt Maestro then it is pointless.
Not to mention that form comics it seems that his molecualr control is the thing that drains him the most of his energy (whenever he uses it to a high degree is when he becomes much weaker.)
Hulk was never his slave. He willinglywent with Poccy, sincen he was even more mentally messed up than he normally is and Poccy said he could get rid of the "ghost" Hulk sees.
dammit. I so should have read this before i just rebutted the first part. But yes, I agree that once Maestro starts wailing on Apocalypse, the ruse is over. Then it's fair game.
You know, I was going to be a dick and go into some Incredible Hulk feats, but I decided not to.
A VERY important part about Maestro is though that he isn't just som ealternate version of Hulk. He is techincally the Savage Hulk's future version, which means all feats of all the Hulk incarnations, are his feats too since he is a combination of all of them. Whiel this soudsn kind of like stealing their feats, I think it is allowed since a major factor in Maestro's story was how he knew everything the hulk was gonna do because he had already done it.
But yes, Apoalypse restrained Hulk for I believe 2 panels with his chains. Hulk said let go, and Poccy did, to talk to Hulk. Maybe Poccy could have restrained him longer, maybe he couldn't. It's not really clear sicne he just let go.
But Poccy did choke Hulk with his chains to try and talk to him. Maestro broke the Hulk's neck so he couldn't move while he talked to him. Maestro wins the "coolest wayto talk to Hulk" award.
He also got his **** rocked by a whisper from just Blackbolt himself.
Psionics hardly ever work on a Hulk. Chances are if you use these, you'll end up getting some new even scarrier version of the Hulk that craps atomic bombs.
Maestro himself has faced some amazing energy manipulators as well including Genis-vell (powerful Captain Marvel version that fought Drax and whatnot, not photon version) who was a very good energy manipulator as well.
Except that there isn't a big place to teleport to. Hell's kitchen isn't that big of an area especialyl with these two guys fighting. Maestro basically clears away half of the building with one clap of his hands. And his psionics will not work. if they did work on the Hulk, he would have used them when they first met. Seriously, when has Poccy ever not beaten down/raken control of someone when he easily could? The only time he ever talks to someoen like they are anywhere near his equal is when he needs them for something (ie Sinister) or when he actualyl questions whether or not he can actually fight him (ie Hulk). Poccy is one arrogant SOB he would never demean himself to talking to the Hulk unless he thought that was really the only way to "win".
And now, he isn't facing a dumb Hulk with psychological problems. He facing a Hulk that is absolutely ruthless, a genius, and stronger than teh Hulk he met.
You are correct. What I meant to say was that if he is severely injured, he does need his sleep chamber to get back to full power. I never meant that he couldn't heal at all.
As for teh under 60 second fight. I assume you mean teh one where Collossus and Archangel actualyl beat Poccy until he used hisbasically "last ditch effort" to blow himself up and regroup his molecules.
That battle states a couple of things as fact in the pages:
1. It says that Apocalypse doesn't know much about the technology he uses (though he would never admit it)
2. It shows that while weakened befoer the fight, after that explosion, he was all but done for.
3. he actualyl says himslef that he needs to leave before they wake up, basicalyl saying if they get up he is beaten.
4. That he was in his "prime" several hundred years ago, not today.
Not only this, but it was not the strognest of X teams. It had Ice-man (who was much weaker than he is nowaday), Storm, Colossus, beast, Pietro, and Archangel. Not a bad team mind you, but nothing like what some of hte teams have been.
Yes, he did beat the X-men, but he did it using the last means he could, and then ran away because he knew they would kick his ass if they got up.
In that last fight, Colossus not only knocked him down, but held him there, he had to explode to escape. Blackbolt has also shown that he can whoop Poccy if he doesn't have to worry about killing everyone else around him (BB is known for holding back), She-hulk he did get, but she is no Maestro, and Hulk was talked to instead of actually fought.
He's also taken full force blows form powerfouses before and gotten his ass kicked or regrouped long enough to run away.
And you make a good point about him abandoning his plan. Poccy works MUCH better when he has some ridiculously complex plan he is working on. He has never shown to be able to really work well in a spur of the moment type of situation. The best he can do then is stall until he runs away (which is quite often). Poccy has no desire to fight, but that is what he must do here. He has 24 hours to prep for a Hulk fight he knows nothign about. Hell, I could honestly picture Apocalyopse just teleporting away anyway and not giving a damn about the tournament (but obviously he won't)
This is n't some scheme to rule mutant kind. This is a straight up fight. Something Apocalypse has never had an interest in, somethign Maestro loves. Apocalypse is on his own. he has no minions, and only the tech in his suit. He's not fighting a group of desperate X-men that had to fight their way through his ship and are half dead already. He is fighting one-on-one with a monster known as Maestro who has the strength, endurance and healing to take Apocalypse down. He also has the battle smarts to take him down in a variety of tactics. Apocalypse's "self explode" and run away tactic won't even faze Maestro and won't help Poccy here.
Winner- Maestro
This a a very intersting battle between probably two of the most underrated women (powerwise) in the MU.
Powers:
Clea is the Sorceress Supreme in her dimension. This means she can do a number of things magical like fire energy, levitate, telepathy, telekineses, teleportation etc. She also has some extra strength she she is not just human.
Sersi has
Control over cosmic energy allows:
-Energy blasts
-Invulnerability
-Immortality
Vast psionic powers include:
-Telepathy
-Telekinesis
-Matter transmutation
-Illusion casting
So as you can see, they have many of the same powers. Probably the biggest differnece is how long they have been using them. Clea has been doing it all her life...for like 30 years. Sersi has been around since ancient Greece and has been using her powers MUCH longer than Clea giving her bettter knowledge of her own powers and of herself.
Now as for prep time, Sersi has the advantage, because she will have access to the Avenger's data on Clea. Clea will really have nothing on Sersi since she wil be in the Darkforce dimension.
For the battle both will be worried about hurting the innocne tpeople, so neither has an advantage there.
Now, a big argument is magic vs. cosmic power that Sersi wields. but Sersi has affected magical things before. She has even affected Mjolinor before with her powers, showing that they work against magic. Because of this, she will be able to affectively still attack and defend against Clea.
Now Clea is powerful, but most of her major feats have not been just her doing. She usually fights her battles with either the help of other sorcerers like Dr. Strange, or even sometimes with an entire army. She has never done much fighting by herself so this will be new to her.
The biggest thign for Sersi is her powers of illusions and telepathy. She has outright owned most peope who try and mess with her head and her illusions are some of the absolute best in the MU. Clea will most liekly try and probe around in Sersi's mind just for info on her and she will find herslef in a world of trouble. This would definatel ypiss off Sersi. And while Sersi wouldn't go evil again, she would defiantely let loose and put Clea down hard.
Sersi once defeated the Avengers in a battle which the Avengers actualyl said they should have been killed. Clea is powerful too, but her power is easily matched by Sersi. Not onyl that, but Sersi also knows the land and has a couple thousand years of battle experience on her side as well.
Winner- Sersi
agree. Tehy are very evenly matched.
Sersi will have access to the Avneger's files on clea so she'll know about her and wher abilities.
I said that whatever it did, it would affect them both evenly so it really doesn't give either an edge.
Except that hse has never shown to ever do this (that I know of) and i doubt she would just send someoen who she might think is evil to the same place she sent a bunch of innocent people.
True, although Sersi has shown to destroy most people that try and do nay mind tricks against her, and her illusions are among the best.
agree. Sersi even one-hit KOed Hercules once.
True, she does have unlimtied energy to draw upon, but so does Sersi. She has cosmic energy that if not infinite might as well be.
But CLea has no idea what to expect form Sersi. not only thta, but her illusions which fool almost everyone would still fool Clea. Hell, Sersi could easily see that Clea won't hurt humans, so she could disguise herself as one or even make the humans all gravitate around Clea. And if her attacks and energy can affect Mjolinor it can sure as hell affect Clea's shields, whatever they may be. And Sersi has shown to be able to block a new big bang with her powers, I doubt Clea has anything that powerful to throw up against her.
But Sersi could just do the EXACT same thing to Clea. Both have the same power of teleportation and both have been shown toalmost never use it offensively, so to say Clea would do this and Sersi wouldn't is kinda pointless. I doubt either one would actually do this.
Sersi can protect herself while attacking Clea as well, very easily in fact. She has shown to be VERY good at multitasking.
In one issue, she:
- shields everyone form fire while also regulationg the temperature so no one boils inside
- telepathically guides Vision and Cap to where she is with the people
-opens up a tiny hole in her shield to allow a rope in, but still blocks the fire with her hands
-uses her teke and strength to pull her shield and with everyone in it out of the fire.
She does this all at once.
Sersi is one of the most powerful women in the MU and whiel Clea is powerful, she has never shown any great power really. She is Sorcer Supreme of her dimension because she rules it due to her lineage, that is the only reason. She is still powerful, but she has never shown to be anywhere near the level of Strange or many other sorcerers and has hardly ever shown her power.
Sersi on the other hand has been fighting and beating whomever she chooses for a couple thousand years. She has experience and knows how to use her powers better than Clea could ever hope to. not only that, but she has shown to be ableto affect bagic and magical beings easily enough as well. Couple all of this with the fact that she will have info on Clea and Clea won't knwo a thing about Sersi and Sersi takes this fairly evenly matched fight.
Winner- Sersi
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True. But if she thinks Sersi is evil, she can just come into the battle with a spell that sends anyone with powers away. Or she can just use Sersi's name (with some spells, just using a person's name is enough for the spell to work correctly). Sersi couldn't do this because she'd have to track Clea down in some manner. So, he fight is over in Clea's favor before it really begins.
Magic usually trumps even the best illusions. The all seeing Eye of Agamotto is an example. Clea can cast a similar spell on herself that allows her to see through such trickery. All the while, she can create a magical illusion to confuse Sersi.
If neither do use it offensively, then teleportation wouldn't effect the fight. But, not knowing anything about her enemy, and being surrounded by an innocent population, Clea may think it best to end the fight as quickly as possible. And this means teleporting away anyone with power which, as described above, Clea should be able to do before Sersi can.
Clea has been trained by Doctor Strange, so she should be no stranger to a multi-tasking mystical fight. This would include shields to protect her from a variety of physical attacks, mental protection against a variety of mind attacks, and her own energy blasts and spell castings.
Magical shields have been shown to keep out of variety of magical and non-magical things and attacks. But can Sersi's shield block magical spells? Because, if not, Clea can create things inside Sersi's protective field. Or she could just put Sersi to sleep (something she could probably do to everyone, including Sersi, when the fight starts, making sure the people stay safe).
Clea is not some thirty year old student of Doctor Strange. She's the centuries old niece of the ruler of the Dark Dimension who grew up with magic and has been using it all her life, even fighting with her powers.
And now, Clea has all the power of a Sorceress Supreme. Combined with centuries of experience and intense training under a Sorcerer Supreme (namely, Doctor Strange), Clea should have more than enough power and experience to hold her own against Sersi. And her magical powers have the ability to penetrate Sersi's defenses while protecting Clea from attacks. This makes Clea a formidable opponent who can take this match.
Clea wins.
Harlekin
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REBUTTAL: Apocalypse vs Maestro
Ignoring the fact that he's done the same to such powerhouses as She-Hulk. There's no doubt in my mind that if Poccy hadn't wanted to let Hulk go, Hulk would not have gotten out his grip.
House of M? Doesn't count. Different Apocalypse.
Psionics isn't just telepathy, it's telekinesis too. Poccy has shown quite a bit of skill in this area, and he can use it to keep the Maestro at bay.
Why force someone into becoming your horseman when they can do it for you. Similar to how he had Wolverine become death not through force, but by having him fight Sabes for the spot, and as we all know, Wolverine isn't anywhere near Poccy's level. As for how large Hell's Kitchen is. If the Daredevil comics are any indication, it's quite a big area of New York, and wikipedia seems to support this. Poccy's got enough places to teleport too in order to properly regroup and proceed to whoop Maestro's ass.
It's the X-Cutioner's Song battle, yep. Considering Poccy was severely weakened and was originally held at the throat by these guys and then pulled out some of the stops, I'd say that's a pretty good feat.
True, but he has had the tech for 1000s of years, so he knows what they do. What is meant is that he doesn't know anything about the technology on an intrinsic basis. He does know what it does.
Considering he was still able to get up, teleport away, gather information and even battle Stryfe for a moment. Even then, he's still capable of coming back from a puddle and help the X-Men save Xavier. "All but done for"? Surely not.
I can't deny this, and they probably would've. Still a good feat.
So? He's still immensely powerful.
I'd say it's one of the stronger X-Men teams around. It's got raw power in Storm, raw strength in Colossus, superspeed in Pietro, mixed in with some agility and such from Beast and Archangel. Definitely quite the team if you ask me.
Which battle are you referring to with Black Bolt, exactly? I hope you're not referring to the House of M Black Panther issue, since that's out of continuity. Then there's the fact that Black Bolt is so friggin' powerful when cutting loose, that beating a holding back Black Bolt is still an amazing feat. He was still be able to hold both She-Hulk and the Hulk, and it's doubtful the Hulk would've gotten free.
Examples? Most of the time people get lucky and render a part of his scheme useless, so he just says **** it and goes. Considering he's taken multiple full-powered blasts from Cyclops, and even a strong blast from Black Bolt, I've got to humbly disagree on this one.
Poccy usually leaves because his plan is thwarted, but never because he can't beat his opponents (with one or two exceptions, of course). He's handled himself quite well in spur of the moment battles, and even better in battles he's planned, of course. It takes nothing away from the fact that he's stood up to these people either way and has with an exception (such as Stryfe beating the severely weakened Poccy) has never been defeated.
Apocalypse has such a great variety of powers with which to handle Maestro, including the strength to simply face him head-on. If Poccy really unleashes with his powers, I'm sorry, but there's nothing Maestro can do to stop him. Taking down Colossus in such a manner while severely weakened? What do you think happens when Poccy's fully powered? Exactly. Dead Maestro.
WINNER=APOCALYPSE
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REBUTTAL: Thor vs Garokk
I don't really need to quote kytrigger's response to respond. Ky's strategy hinges completely on Garokk's powers of teleportation. One method of victory over the dozens of ways in which Thor can beat Garokk. I think we can agree that Thor takes Garokk 9 times out of 10, and since this competition is about who would win the most matches, or has the better chance of winning, it's definitely Thor, something with which Ky seems to agree.
WINNER=THOR
Phaedrus45
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Debating Is Over!
Voting May Begin!!!
Phaedrus45
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What I love about this thread is it has such powerhouses, and I don't have to worry about losing one of my characters to them.
*Magneto
*Thor
*Maestro
*Sersi - (Hard, hard decision. In the end, Sersi would have a ton of information while Clea is in a realm that doesn't have access to information. I think Sersi would have much more information.)
Phaedrus45
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Yep, Paris is out of jail.Similar threads
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