Contest of Marvels II Thread 1
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Phaedrus45
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Phaedrus45
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Location:
While the dimension of Otherworld is also known as Avalon, the island of Avalon is actually only a small part of the large dimension that is Otherworld. Other places within this dimension include Fomor, home of the Fomorians, Annwn, home of the dead, and many other locales associated with Celtic mythology. The Starlight Citadel is home of Roma and the base of the Captain Britain Corps.
In general, Otherworld is a High fantasy world; gods, elves, dragons and many more live within small towns and large castles with no heavy industry. Large forests and bright lakes separate the several islands and locations from one another. Otherworld is not primitive though, while sorcery and magic is a part of daily life, the Captain Britain Corps and Avalon possess highly advanced technology.
History
In ancient times, there were many ways to travel from Earth to Avalon and back, created by powerful men known as the Twelve Walkers. Six of the Twelve Walkers became corrupt and created false paths that would lead travellers to dangerous places or insanity. The actions of these evil Walkers caused a backlash from the human inhabitants of Earth against all magical creatures and many of these creatures followed the paths to relocate to Otherworld. Most of the paths between Earth and Avalon were destroyed and only a few remain.
After the death of King Arthur, his body was taken to Avalon by Merlyn. Somehow the city of Camelot was also taken to Avalon, including all the Knights of the Round Table.
Merlyn, Roma and the Starlight Citadel
Merlyn created the Starlight Citadel, located on a different island than Avalon. From the Starlight Citadel he founded the Captain Britain Corps, a group of superhuman heroes who would patrol the countless Earths in the Omniverse. Merlyn became the Omniversal Guardian and was assisted in his task by the Omniversal Majestor/Majestrix. His task was to safeguard the Omniverse against any threats and the technology Merlyn provided was capable of destroying entire universes that were a threat. When Mad Jim Jaspers appeared, Merlyn faked his death and was replaced by Roma as Omniversal Guardian. Saturnyne became the Omniversal Majestrix.
Years later, Mastermind conquered the island of the Starlight Citadel, destroyed most of the Captain Britain Corps and disguised himself as Roma. Mastermind wanted the Amulet of Right and the Sword of Might, two mystical artifacts who had once empowered Brian Braddock, also known as Captain Britain and his enemy Joshua Stragg, the Reaver. Braddock found the artifacts before Mastermind and discovered that he was the rightful heir to these artifacts. He used them to defeat Mastermind and Roma named him the new ruler of Otherworld, while she remained as his advisor. Brian recently left his throne after the events in House of M and returned to Earth.
The island of Avalon and the Celtic Gods
On the island of Avalon, home to the Celtic Gods also known as the Tuatha da Danaan, Druids would forge the magical artifact known as the Evil Eye. The Eye was given to Prester John, who travelled back to Earth with it. The Celtic Gods themselves would have an endless war with the Fomorians, who would try to invade Avalon repeatedly. The Celtic Gods would receive assistance from Thor in repelling several invasions.
One of the Celtic Gods, the Lady of the Lake safeguarded Excalibur, King Arthur's sword. She became a close ally of the Black Knight and even gave him Excalibur when he lost his weapon, the Ebony Sword. Years later, the Lady of the Lake gave the Black Knight his new weapons: the Sword of Light and the Shield of Night. In return the Black Knight became her protector. The Black Knight would often travel between Earth and Avalon and seek the Lady of the Lake for advice.
For ease, we'll figure everyone is transported to a different area within Avalon. Since last time we didn't have any inhabitants, this time we will have people within the city.
While the dimension of Otherworld is also known as Avalon, the island of Avalon is actually only a small part of the large dimension that is Otherworld. Other places within this dimension include Fomor, home of the Fomorians, Annwn, home of the dead, and many other locales associated with Celtic mythology. The Starlight Citadel is home of Roma and the base of the Captain Britain Corps.
In general, Otherworld is a High fantasy world; gods, elves, dragons and many more live within small towns and large castles with no heavy industry. Large forests and bright lakes separate the several islands and locations from one another. Otherworld is not primitive though, while sorcery and magic is a part of daily life, the Captain Britain Corps and Avalon possess highly advanced technology.
History
In ancient times, there were many ways to travel from Earth to Avalon and back, created by powerful men known as the Twelve Walkers. Six of the Twelve Walkers became corrupt and created false paths that would lead travellers to dangerous places or insanity. The actions of these evil Walkers caused a backlash from the human inhabitants of Earth against all magical creatures and many of these creatures followed the paths to relocate to Otherworld. Most of the paths between Earth and Avalon were destroyed and only a few remain.
After the death of King Arthur, his body was taken to Avalon by Merlyn. Somehow the city of Camelot was also taken to Avalon, including all the Knights of the Round Table.
Merlyn, Roma and the Starlight Citadel
Merlyn created the Starlight Citadel, located on a different island than Avalon. From the Starlight Citadel he founded the Captain Britain Corps, a group of superhuman heroes who would patrol the countless Earths in the Omniverse. Merlyn became the Omniversal Guardian and was assisted in his task by the Omniversal Majestor/Majestrix. His task was to safeguard the Omniverse against any threats and the technology Merlyn provided was capable of destroying entire universes that were a threat. When Mad Jim Jaspers appeared, Merlyn faked his death and was replaced by Roma as Omniversal Guardian. Saturnyne became the Omniversal Majestrix.
Years later, Mastermind conquered the island of the Starlight Citadel, destroyed most of the Captain Britain Corps and disguised himself as Roma. Mastermind wanted the Amulet of Right and the Sword of Might, two mystical artifacts who had once empowered Brian Braddock, also known as Captain Britain and his enemy Joshua Stragg, the Reaver. Braddock found the artifacts before Mastermind and discovered that he was the rightful heir to these artifacts. He used them to defeat Mastermind and Roma named him the new ruler of Otherworld, while she remained as his advisor. Brian recently left his throne after the events in House of M and returned to Earth.
The island of Avalon and the Celtic Gods
On the island of Avalon, home to the Celtic Gods also known as the Tuatha da Danaan, Druids would forge the magical artifact known as the Evil Eye. The Eye was given to Prester John, who travelled back to Earth with it. The Celtic Gods themselves would have an endless war with the Fomorians, who would try to invade Avalon repeatedly. The Celtic Gods would receive assistance from Thor in repelling several invasions.
One of the Celtic Gods, the Lady of the Lake safeguarded Excalibur, King Arthur's sword. She became a close ally of the Black Knight and even gave him Excalibur when he lost his weapon, the Ebony Sword. Years later, the Lady of the Lake gave the Black Knight his new weapons: the Sword of Light and the Shield of Night. In return the Black Knight became her protector. The Black Knight would often travel between Earth and Avalon and seek the Lady of the Lake for advice.
For ease, we'll figure everyone is transported to a different area within Avalon. Since last time we didn't have any inhabitants, this time we will have people within the city.
Ahura Mazda
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Phaedrus45 said:
First of all, let me introduce you to Durok the Demolisher. He was a creature that was created by Karnilla and Loki (using the Odin Ring) to defeat Thor. He is immensely strong, invulnerable, and can shoot concussive blasts (powerful enough to knock out the Silver Surfer).
You may be asking now how did Thor defeat Durok....well he did not....when the SS found him, Thor was knocked out in the gutter. The SS did not do much better.
No the battle at hand...
First off, please note that neither combattant should know anything about the other.
With regard the battle, Trevor's main power is being able to drain life forces of humans/mutants to use time portals. He also has powerful armour but this will avail him not.
The two will meet pretty much head on given that neither one knows how to prepare for the other. Trevor will not want to engage Durok hand to hand, because the moment he does Trevor is dead.
His other startegy using time portals is good except that he cannot simnply force Durok into one to wisk him away. He also cannot use it himself to affect Durok from the past because (1) he has no point of reference and Durok is from the Asgardian plane and (2) even if he did use it in battle, there is nothing he could do against a creature like Durok.
In the battle, Fitzroy could think himself invincible because of his armour but he would quickly find his armour would not be enough and Durok would live up to his name and completely demolish Fitzroy who would not know the power he would be coming up against. Power that made both Thor and the Siver Surfer tremble.
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OPENING ARGUMENT: Black Panther vs Magik
Let's forget about Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther for a moment and think back to that deliciously awesome and badass Black Panther as written by Christopher Priest. Although they are essentially the same character when it comes to equipment and the like, I'd feel dirty saying I have Hudlin's Panther on my team, so let's just keep it Priest-style.
Let's first take a look at his powers:
Strength, speed and endurance
Other skills
Standard equipment
And that's just stuff he's got with him, if he were to go into this match unprepared! Thing is, both contestants get a good 24 hours prep-time, which is just extra gravy for characters such as T'Challa. For information, he's got Avengers resources as well his own. There's no doubt in my mind that the Black Panther will be able to find info on Magik and be able to react accordingly. The same holds true for finding info about Otherworld, and knowledge about the advanced technology there. He only needs to go over the specs of Captain Britain's outfit (before he discovered he didn't need the armour) to get an idea of the technology that awaits him.
In comparison, I also have little doubt that Magik would be able to find info on the Black Panther. This however comes with a stipulation. It's severely outdated info, as some of the equipment he's now carrying with him he only started taking along with him after she died. This leaves her at a severe disadvantage of what the Black Panther is capable of. Her advantage would be in having more knowledge of Otherworld, but it's a hollow advantage, except that she can try and use the magic artefacts there (such as the sword and amulet), but in the case they do not reject her, would simply be too powerful for her to control.
Then there's her powers and skills. Although she may be an adept swordswoman, she is no real match for the Black Panther in hand-to-hand combat. Black Panther is capable of stalemating guys like Captain America and Iron Fist, while Magik is ultimately a teenage girl with little experience in the actual art of fighting besides sword and knife training from an alternate reality Kitty Pryde. Her skills with the sword would also be outclassed by Panther, considering that in his status as royalty, he would have trained in their use since his youth.
Her advantage would solely be in the use of magic spells, and although she is certainly a promising sorceress, she is not yet in the class of magic that someone like Brother Voodoo, one of the Panther's more frequent allies. Lastly, the Panther is no stranger to magic himself, as a large part of Wakanda's culture is built around the religion of the Panther God, himself a mystical entity. The Panther would have access to (as Wikipedia calls it) "a vast array of magical artefacts", that could protect him.
For more of an idea of what the Panther can do, I invite you to look at this respect thread, detailing some of the awesome feats he's pulled off. Let's recap a few things here: Black Panther originally tested himself against the Fantastic Four, he's stared down Iron Man, has held his own against guys like Captain America, Iron Fist, Ka-Zar and Wolverine. Heck, he recently one-punched Karnak. And heck, anyone who doubts his ability to counteract magical entities, he was able to rip out Mephisto's heart! Now anyone who still doubts the awesomeness of the Panther, can take a look at this particular thread, which gives a play-by-play of the Panther's feats, by year!
Now we come to the actual fight. Logically, Magik will be searching Otherworld to find the Black Panther so she can at least try and put the smackdown on him. She'll have prepared, but nothing too specific, since her info is both outdated and not too detailed. Black Panther is keeping out of sight, possibly wearing something to make sure he can't be mystically detected, as he works his own sweet sweet technological magic. He beat Mephisto by stopping him from returning to his own dimension. Magik's own power is also tied in squarely to Limbo. If he can do this to Mephisto, he can do it to Magik. Heck, if that somehow fails, he's still got a dozen back-up plans, all easily adaptable to the situation.
Black Panther has the advantage of stealth, the advantage of being able to knock out Magik if he gets up close, able to use technology to knock out Magik from afar, and possibly stop her from using her powers. If she faces him head on, he can beat her, because he's got the strength and the skills. It's however, something he will also avoid until he's completely and utterly sure that victory is inevitable, and it will be, because that's how the Panther rolls.
WINNER=BLACK PANTHER
Let's forget about Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther for a moment and think back to that deliciously awesome and badass Black Panther as written by Christopher Priest. Although they are essentially the same character when it comes to equipment and the like, I'd feel dirty saying I have Hudlin's Panther on my team, so let's just keep it Priest-style.
Let's first take a look at his powers:
Strength, speed and endurance
Marvel Directory.Com: The Black Panther is near the pinnicle of human physical perfection, his natural strength and abilities having been heightened by unidentified heart-shaped herb administered only to Wakandan kings during a sacred ascension ritual. The herb is also only in Wakanda. While not superhuman, he is nearly as strong as a human being can become. He can lift (press) a maximum of 750 pounds with supreme effort.
Marvel Directory.Com: An accomplished gymnast and acrobat, T'Challa is also an expert tracker. In addition, he has mastered various African martial arts.
Marvel Directory.Com: T'Challa's Vibranium micro-weave bodysuit not only stops bullets, but saps their momentum. His boots' Vibranium soles absorb sound and impact -- enabling him to leap from structures up to eight stories tall and land without injury, and literally run up the sides of buildings. The Panther's retractable claws contain a new composite of the experimental "anti-metal" Vibranium that can break down other alloys. T'Challa wields an energy dagger that can be fired, thrown or handled like a knife. At its highest setting, the weapon easily can cut through forged steel.
In comparison, I also have little doubt that Magik would be able to find info on the Black Panther. This however comes with a stipulation. It's severely outdated info, as some of the equipment he's now carrying with him he only started taking along with him after she died. This leaves her at a severe disadvantage of what the Black Panther is capable of. Her advantage would be in having more knowledge of Otherworld, but it's a hollow advantage, except that she can try and use the magic artefacts there (such as the sword and amulet), but in the case they do not reject her, would simply be too powerful for her to control.
Then there's her powers and skills. Although she may be an adept swordswoman, she is no real match for the Black Panther in hand-to-hand combat. Black Panther is capable of stalemating guys like Captain America and Iron Fist, while Magik is ultimately a teenage girl with little experience in the actual art of fighting besides sword and knife training from an alternate reality Kitty Pryde. Her skills with the sword would also be outclassed by Panther, considering that in his status as royalty, he would have trained in their use since his youth.
Her advantage would solely be in the use of magic spells, and although she is certainly a promising sorceress, she is not yet in the class of magic that someone like Brother Voodoo, one of the Panther's more frequent allies. Lastly, the Panther is no stranger to magic himself, as a large part of Wakanda's culture is built around the religion of the Panther God, himself a mystical entity. The Panther would have access to (as Wikipedia calls it) "a vast array of magical artefacts", that could protect him.
For more of an idea of what the Panther can do, I invite you to look at this respect thread, detailing some of the awesome feats he's pulled off. Let's recap a few things here: Black Panther originally tested himself against the Fantastic Four, he's stared down Iron Man, has held his own against guys like Captain America, Iron Fist, Ka-Zar and Wolverine. Heck, he recently one-punched Karnak. And heck, anyone who doubts his ability to counteract magical entities, he was able to rip out Mephisto's heart! Now anyone who still doubts the awesomeness of the Panther, can take a look at this particular thread, which gives a play-by-play of the Panther's feats, by year!
Now we come to the actual fight. Logically, Magik will be searching Otherworld to find the Black Panther so she can at least try and put the smackdown on him. She'll have prepared, but nothing too specific, since her info is both outdated and not too detailed. Black Panther is keeping out of sight, possibly wearing something to make sure he can't be mystically detected, as he works his own sweet sweet technological magic. He beat Mephisto by stopping him from returning to his own dimension. Magik's own power is also tied in squarely to Limbo. If he can do this to Mephisto, he can do it to Magik. Heck, if that somehow fails, he's still got a dozen back-up plans, all easily adaptable to the situation.
Black Panther has the advantage of stealth, the advantage of being able to knock out Magik if he gets up close, able to use technology to knock out Magik from afar, and possibly stop her from using her powers. If she faces him head on, he can beat her, because he's got the strength and the skills. It's however, something he will also avoid until he's completely and utterly sure that victory is inevitable, and it will be, because that's how the Panther rolls.
WINNER=BLACK PANTHER
hippy fascist
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Opening argument:Radioactive Man Vs. Thunderbird
Ok, second fight and this time the location is only going to help Radioactive Man. There are people everywhere and remembering that Radioactive Man was one of the masters of evil and has generally, up until the thunderbolts, been a nasty piece of work they are gonna come in very handy both as human shields and to help keep John in line. John is one of the good guys but if he hulks up innocent people will get in his way and will therefore get seriously injured/killed. He's not going to be willing to risk this so he's going to be at lower power. Radioactive man on the other hand can use them all as carriers for the radiation poisoning that will be his main weapon in this fight.
He knows John's a brawler through and through from the last fight so that mean for his prep time, once again it's going to be a uranium leeching preperation for Lu. Soaking up all that power for 24 hours he's going to be at uber levels from the very start of this one which gives us three options for taking out Thunderbird:
1. Start smashing up buildings causing them to fall on people. As a hero Thunderbird will be compelled to try and get the people out of the way or at least catch/deflect the debris meaning that Lu can just sit back and dose him with radiation from afar. This fight could be over in minuted if he takes out a big enough building to keep John occupied and gives him everything he's got, we are talking VAPOURISED! Remember, john has very tough skin but like a microwave radiation kills you from the inside out rendering this point moot.
2. There's no threat of lead lined walls here so the second Radioactive Man show's up there's going to be a massive increase in background radiation meaning as long as there's people around and John can't hulk up he's going to be slowly dying of radiation poisoning. On top of that all of the people will mulitply the likelihood of this affecting John as everything they touch or even just stand too close too will become infected spreading the radiation like a virus.
Lu could simply evade him or maintain his forcefield and wait for John to die. John is the kind of guy who will keep fighting even at the point where his organs are turning to mush. Even in his hulked up state I'm not sure John could get through it (besides he cannot risk it with all these people around. John's just not that kind of guy.)
At this point, I want to clear something up from the last debate. A beating on Galactus was mentioned. However, firstly this was a low powered galactus, he was weakened and in this state MANY super strong characters could have "punched a hole through him". Secondly, he did not win this fight. He was so badly ****ed up by galactus in retaliation he ended up in a coma as has not woken up since. So for whoever last week said "he beat freakin' Galactus". He didn't, he got in a couple of good hits and then got his ass handed to him.
3. He could simply take him on close quarters. As I said last week RADIOACTIVE MAN HAS NO UPPER LIMITS! Like the Hulk with his anger the more radiation he absorbs the stronger and more durable he becomes. Since he's going to be soaking up raw uranium for the previous 24 hours it will be as if someone showed the hulk a video of betty getting ass-raped by quicksilver (I don't know why quicksilver, it just seems to fit ) for 24 hrs. HE WILL BE UPPER HULK LEVELS! Only in radioactive man's case he still retains the genius intelect whereas John and the hulk have to become completely savage to hit these heights. John has knocked out the hulk before but he did it by getting a quick voley of attacks in while hulked up before the hulk got really mad. If that fight had gone on for ten minutes more the Hulk would have battered him. Besides this is a non-issue as John can't take that risk. Lu will be able to punch right through him.To cap it all off the whole time they are fighting John will be slowly dying of radiation poisoning. This is the kind of thor vs hercules fight that goes on for days without stopping. However both of those characters wouldn't be being weakened with each passing minute. After about an hour or so of this John would be so weak he'd barely be able to stand just leaving Lu to finish him off.
This was always going to be a tough match but the people are simply too big an advantage to Radioactive Man. This time there's no doubt in my mind who'd win this
as a final point ( and this is without the uranium bath in prep time)
So to sum up, he can hold his own against both mjolnir and in hand to hand against a GOD! John isn't nearly that powerful. Smacking galactus in that fight they had was no different to punching say giant man or goliath. Radioactive man has taken on a god with less than his own full power, and it got to the point where thor had to transport him away with magic as he just couldn't beat him. As icing on the cake, upon arriving back in china he'd gotten so worked up he exploded which is essentially the equivalent of an a-bomb going off, and proceeded to reform himself. Even if he didn't beat John in hand to hand, the blast would take him out.
WINNER: RADIOACTIVE MAN!
Ok, second fight and this time the location is only going to help Radioactive Man. There are people everywhere and remembering that Radioactive Man was one of the masters of evil and has generally, up until the thunderbolts, been a nasty piece of work they are gonna come in very handy both as human shields and to help keep John in line. John is one of the good guys but if he hulks up innocent people will get in his way and will therefore get seriously injured/killed. He's not going to be willing to risk this so he's going to be at lower power. Radioactive man on the other hand can use them all as carriers for the radiation poisoning that will be his main weapon in this fight.
He knows John's a brawler through and through from the last fight so that mean for his prep time, once again it's going to be a uranium leeching preperation for Lu. Soaking up all that power for 24 hours he's going to be at uber levels from the very start of this one which gives us three options for taking out Thunderbird:
1. Start smashing up buildings causing them to fall on people. As a hero Thunderbird will be compelled to try and get the people out of the way or at least catch/deflect the debris meaning that Lu can just sit back and dose him with radiation from afar. This fight could be over in minuted if he takes out a big enough building to keep John occupied and gives him everything he's got, we are talking VAPOURISED! Remember, john has very tough skin but like a microwave radiation kills you from the inside out rendering this point moot.
2. There's no threat of lead lined walls here so the second Radioactive Man show's up there's going to be a massive increase in background radiation meaning as long as there's people around and John can't hulk up he's going to be slowly dying of radiation poisoning. On top of that all of the people will mulitply the likelihood of this affecting John as everything they touch or even just stand too close too will become infected spreading the radiation like a virus.
Lu could simply evade him or maintain his forcefield and wait for John to die. John is the kind of guy who will keep fighting even at the point where his organs are turning to mush. Even in his hulked up state I'm not sure John could get through it (besides he cannot risk it with all these people around. John's just not that kind of guy.)
At this point, I want to clear something up from the last debate. A beating on Galactus was mentioned. However, firstly this was a low powered galactus, he was weakened and in this state MANY super strong characters could have "punched a hole through him". Secondly, he did not win this fight. He was so badly ****ed up by galactus in retaliation he ended up in a coma as has not woken up since. So for whoever last week said "he beat freakin' Galactus". He didn't, he got in a couple of good hits and then got his ass handed to him.
3. He could simply take him on close quarters. As I said last week RADIOACTIVE MAN HAS NO UPPER LIMITS! Like the Hulk with his anger the more radiation he absorbs the stronger and more durable he becomes. Since he's going to be soaking up raw uranium for the previous 24 hours it will be as if someone showed the hulk a video of betty getting ass-raped by quicksilver (I don't know why quicksilver, it just seems to fit
) for 24 hrs. HE WILL BE UPPER HULK LEVELS! Only in radioactive man's case he still retains the genius intelect whereas John and the hulk have to become completely savage to hit these heights. John has knocked out the hulk before but he did it by getting a quick voley of attacks in while hulked up before the hulk got really mad. If that fight had gone on for ten minutes more the Hulk would have battered him. Besides this is a non-issue as John can't take that risk. Lu will be able to punch right through him.To cap it all off the whole time they are fighting John will be slowly dying of radiation poisoning. This is the kind of thor vs hercules fight that goes on for days without stopping. However both of those characters wouldn't be being weakened with each passing minute. After about an hour or so of this John would be so weak he'd barely be able to stand just leaving Lu to finish him off.This was always going to be a tough match but the people are simply too big an advantage to Radioactive Man. This time there's no doubt in my mind who'd win this
as a final point ( and this is without the uranium bath in prep time)
wiki said:
So to sum up, he can hold his own against both mjolnir and in hand to hand against a GOD! John isn't nearly that powerful. Smacking galactus in that fight they had was no different to punching say giant man or goliath. Radioactive man has taken on a god with less than his own full power, and it got to the point where thor had to transport him away with magic as he just couldn't beat him. As icing on the cake, upon arriving back in china he'd gotten so worked up he exploded which is essentially the equivalent of an a-bomb going off, and proceeded to reform himself. Even if he didn't beat John in hand to hand, the blast would take him out.
WINNER: RADIOACTIVE MAN!
Phaedrus45 said:
First off, we'll get the prep time thing out of the way. I don't believe that Durok could get any info on Fitzroy, but Fitzroy should be able to on Durok. In Fitzroy's last appearance, he basically ruled a future earth and called himself the Chronomancer. Now being in the future, he has archives of almost everyone and definately has access to the information. Since he has the ability to teleport into time, he must first know where exactly to go in time. In order to do this, he needs mass amounts of historical archives. This is how he knows where people are at a certain time and can just show up and kidnap/kill them.
Now, on to the powers. Durok is strong. He goes up against Thor. He can also shoot blasts form his hands. While these are good powers, they are very direct powers, unlike Fitzroy's.
Trevor Fitzroy originally had the power to drain a person's life force and then use that energy to open a time portal. But that's not it, he's also had a serious upgrade in powers. He can now open up many more portals than before (and doesn't need to drain someone each time) and more importantly he can freeze a person in time (so they're in stais basically). He is alos found of futuristic weapons and his own futuristic battle armor.
So when the fight starts, it is important to note that Fitzroy will have his battle armor and weapons with him. While these won't make him as strong as Durok, they will let him handle his own, and protect him form Durok. After a while Durok would win if it was a straight up boxing match, but that's not Fitzroy's style.
Fitzroy would want to use his main powers, mainly freezing Durok, and draining his life force.
Fitzroys' main goal would be to freez Durok from a distance so he doesn't even get a scratch on himself, abd then he would eithier just drain Durok's life-force, or he would drain a life-force of one of the villagers in Otherworld, create a time portal, and just throw Durok into the portal. It wouldn't kill Durok, but it would make him lose the battle since he would have no way of getting back to Otherworld.
Now since this isn't a perfect world, Tevor might get hit a couple of times by Durok's blasts, but his battle armor is more than capable of taking some blasts. Either way, Durok has no way to actually defend against Fitzroy's "time freeze" power and once he does that, Fitzroy baically has the battle won.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
Rebuttal
[/quote]With regard the battle, Trevor's main power is being able to drain life forces of humans/mutants to use time portals. He also has powerful armour but this will avail him not.[/quote]
Pretty much, except he also has his power to "time freeze" anyone. Also, while the power armor and futuristic weapons wouldn't let him defeat Durok, they definately provide a good wall of protection and make it so that Fitzroy wouldn't die after one hit. They're basically his defensive upgrades for this battle.
), but I do agree that Trevor won't try to take Durok head-on (except he would last longer than a moment).
First off, Trevor would time-freeze Durok first so he didn't have to actaully worry about getting hit or anything. Then, he would create a portal and throw Durok in (remember he has plenty of power to lift an immobilized Durok with his armor) or just make a portal in the exact spot Durok is frozen.
Not only does Trevor Fitzroy have a number of ways to actually get rid of Durok, but he is also protected from Durok's might as well.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
All true except that I'd like to point out that while the blasts did knock out the Silver Surfer it was after a long battle and it took multiple blasts (it's not like it was a one shot deal or anything)Ahura Mazda said:
I disagree, Trevor doesn't just omce from the future, he rules it in his last incarnation and would have access to almost all information he could ever want.
[/quote]With regard the battle, Trevor's main power is being able to drain life forces of humans/mutants to use time portals. He also has powerful armour but this will avail him not.[/quote]
Pretty much, except he also has his power to "time freeze" anyone. Also, while the power armor and futuristic weapons wouldn't let him defeat Durok, they definately provide a good wall of protection and make it so that Fitzroy wouldn't die after one hit. They're basically his defensive upgrades for this battle.
disagree on the prep part (obviously
), but I do agree that Trevor won't try to take Durok head-on (except he would last longer than a moment). First off, Trevor would time-freeze Durok first so he didn't have to actaully worry about getting hit or anything. Then, he would create a portal and throw Durok in (remember he has plenty of power to lift an immobilized Durok with his armor) or just make a portal in the exact spot Durok is frozen.
Trevor would know better than to think himself invincible. His armor has been destroyed before so he won't go in over-estimating it. In fact, he'll go in with a plan that if works perfectly, he wouldn't even need to use the armor, but he will wear it anyway because he knows things might not work out perfectly.
Not only does Trevor Fitzroy have a number of ways to actually get rid of Durok, but he is also protected from Durok's might as well.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
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Rebuttal
I would argue against that. First of all, Durok is an Asgardian creature and only appeared a very short time. trhere is no reason he would be in the history books or any kind of archives. Plus Fitzroy never went to Asgard nor can he. Therefore it is highly unlikely to not say impossible he would have any information on Durok.
Lets look a look at the way Fitzroy died...Bishop simply held him while portal closed in on him. Therefore his abilities are limited where freezing people are concerned. Even if he can, he has never frozen an Asgardian magical creature like Durok. Durok is neither a human nor a mutant.
First off his armoury will not let him handle his own, both Thor and the Silver Surfer were not able to handle their own. It would take very little time for Fitzroy to be hurt. Given his confidence, Fitzroy could possible take a couple of blasts head on...which would have been the end of him. Or simply his ego would make him think he could fight Durok albeit breifly. Any overconfidence, which is likely given his lack of knowledge of Durok.
First off, there is no surety he could drain Durok as Durok is a magical Asgardian creature not a mortal man. Fitzroy has never been shown to be able to do that.
It is good to have goals in life but one cannot always attain them. If he did open a time portal which I imagine he will do using a villager, how in the hell is he to throw a creature who can withsatnd both Thor and the Silver Surfer anywhere.
This is your big mistake, even with his armour, one blast let alone two would be enough. Lets not forget the Silver Surfer, who is durable enough to survive the rigours of space and Thor, who has better then Asgardian density, were both knocked out by the concussive force of his blasts.
And Fitzroy's time powers are not limitless, given he was defeated at the end just by Bishop, with maybe a little help of Gambit. Durok's powers dwarf those of both Gamits and Bishops and his uncanny battle cunningness would have the better of Fitzroy....whose only strategy here would be to run for his life.
kytrigger said:
I would argue against that. First of all, Durok is an Asgardian creature and only appeared a very short time. trhere is no reason he would be in the history books or any kind of archives. Plus Fitzroy never went to Asgard nor can he. Therefore it is highly unlikely to not say impossible he would have any information on Durok.
kytrigger said:
Lets look a look at the way Fitzroy died...Bishop simply held him while portal closed in on him. Therefore his abilities are limited where freezing people are concerned. Even if he can, he has never frozen an Asgardian magical creature like Durok. Durok is neither a human nor a mutant.
kytrigger said:
First off his armoury will not let him handle his own, both Thor and the Silver Surfer were not able to handle their own. It would take very little time for Fitzroy to be hurt. Given his confidence, Fitzroy could possible take a couple of blasts head on...which would have been the end of him. Or simply his ego would make him think he could fight Durok albeit breifly. Any overconfidence, which is likely given his lack of knowledge of Durok.
kytrigger said:
First off, there is no surety he could drain Durok as Durok is a magical Asgardian creature not a mortal man. Fitzroy has never been shown to be able to do that.
kytrigger said:
It is good to have goals in life but one cannot always attain them. If he did open a time portal which I imagine he will do using a villager, how in the hell is he to throw a creature who can withsatnd both Thor and the Silver Surfer anywhere.
kytrigger said:
This is your big mistake, even with his armour, one blast let alone two would be enough. Lets not forget the Silver Surfer, who is durable enough to survive the rigours of space and Thor, who has better then Asgardian density, were both knocked out by the concussive force of his blasts.
And Fitzroy's time powers are not limitless, given he was defeated at the end just by Bishop, with maybe a little help of Gambit. Durok's powers dwarf those of both Gamits and Bishops and his uncanny battle cunningness would have the better of Fitzroy....whose only strategy here would be to run for his life.
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kytrigger said:
It was a few shots but each shot severely stunned the SS.
kytrigger said:
My point was that no information of Durok is likely to be available in the future. Durok is not someone like Captain America or the Hulk who would possibly be remeberred in the future. Durok is a very unknown enemy who had a one-off battle.
kytrigger said:
I am not sure how many hits it would need as it did not take very long for Durok to put down Thor. Fitzroy is no Thor. And his power to time-freeze is limited given his defeat. If he could simply time-freeze anyone, he would be invincible but this is not the case, given he was killed in a battle using his powers to their utmost.
kytrigger said:disagree on the prep part (obviously
I don't think he could last that long first of all and second of all his prep time would be limited as he would not know what he was up against.
kytrigger said:
You write that as he could simply time freeze anone whereas you are talking about a guy who was very simply defeated with people using only force. Fitzroy called himself the chronomaster but it was more wishful thinking then anything else.
kytrigger said:
Trevor has a very big ego and given his lack of knowledge of Durock, he may think his armour could withstand him whereas it could not. He has very little protection and will be surprised at the prowess of Durock.
Winner - Durock the Demolisher
Rebuttal
The reason Bishop beat him was simply for the fact that he didn't see Shard turning on him.
As for not being able to freez Durok, why couldn't he? Just because he is a magical Asgardian creature? Does this magical creature exist in the time stream? Yes, and that is what he affects. It shouldn't matter what they are made of as long as they are actually in the time stream.
No, his ego would not let him think that. His armory is powerful, but even sothen he would use it for defensive puporses. Why the hell would he go an dduke it out with a giant Golem creature. Even if he didn't have any knowledge of Durok (I'll adress this part in a little bit) one look at him and you know what he is. He's a bruiser. Why on earth would Fitzroy decide to not do what he's best at (draining life, freezing in time, etc.) and fight instead? That makes absolutely no sense.
Once again, they weren't just knocked out by the blasts. They both had long hard fights with teh guy and were worn down by both his blasts and his fists. Yes, he ended it on a blast, but you make it sound like it was after 2 of them. You also have to remember that both Thor and SS went and actually fought him in hand-to-hand combat, Fitzroy won't do that. His armor will protect him from his blasts long enough to freeze/drain his life/throw him into a portal.
Winner-Trevor Fitzroy
First let's get the story of his death straight. Yes Bishop held him while his ownn portal closed on him. What you didn't say was everything leading up to that. Bishop way almost dead laying on the floor when Shard switched sides, turned into energy, and allowed Bishop to absorb her so he could shoot Fitroy in the back and then hold him for a second so the portal closed on him.Ahura Mazda said:
The reason Bishop beat him was simply for the fact that he didn't see Shard turning on him.
As for not being able to freez Durok, why couldn't he? Just because he is a magical Asgardian creature? Does this magical creature exist in the time stream? Yes, and that is what he affects. It shouldn't matter what they are made of as long as they are actually in the time stream.
No, his ego would not let him think that. His armory is powerful, but even sothen he would use it for defensive puporses. Why the hell would he go an dduke it out with a giant Golem creature. Even if he didn't have any knowledge of Durok (I'll adress this part in a little bit) one look at him and you know what he is. He's a bruiser. Why on earth would Fitzroy decide to not do what he's best at (draining life, freezing in time, etc.) and fight instead? That makes absolutely no sense.
He's never been shown to whistle either, but I bet he can. Just because he has never been shown doesn't mean he instantly can't. WHat he is doing is actually draining life-force from beings. Now unless you say that Durok doesn't have a life-force, he should be able to do it. And remember, humans and mutants aren't the same genetically. If he can do it on two different genetic beings, why couldn't he do it on a third type?
Once again, he would freeze Durok. Even if he didn't freeze him (which he would) he can open more than one portal at once. What the hell is Durok gonna do when he opens portals on every side of him and above him?
Once again, they weren't just knocked out by the blasts. They both had long hard fights with teh guy and were worn down by both his blasts and his fists. Yes, he ended it on a blast, but you make it sound like it was after 2 of them. You also have to remember that both Thor and SS went and actually fought him in hand-to-hand combat, Fitzroy won't do that. His armor will protect him from his blasts long enough to freeze/drain his life/throw him into a portal.
Once again, Shard turned on him, that's why he lost. He had beaten Bishop, he was actaully in the process of becoming Time itself (something so big that even the Watcher came down to watch). Not to mention is the fact that even though he did lay a firm beating on everyone, he was actually weaker then because he was actually using his own energy to power his entire fortress. Guess what, that weakens a guy. In this match, he would be at full power.
Winner-Trevor Fitzroy
Ahura Mazda said:
Not nearly as much as his fists hurt the SS. His blasts are the weaker part of his arsenal, he just used them to finish them off. While they are still strong, his armor can withstand them long enough to actually finish the fight.
I still think he could get info, and I doubt I could change your mind. I think this is one of those things where it will be up to the voters to decide if he could or couldn't.
I might be wrong on this, but I thought that we didn't actaulyl see the entire battle of him and Thor. I htought it was more a we see the beginning, and then SS shows up and Thor is knocked out. While he did beat him, we don't know how much time transpired, it could have been hours.
For the last time (hopefully) HE WAS NOT USING HIS POWERS WHEN BISHOP KILLED HIM. He had beaten Bishop to near death, then he turned his back to him to go into his own portal. That is when Shard turned on Fitzroy and helped Bishop by turnign herself into energy he could absorb. Bishop then got up and just held Fitzroy for a second while his portal closed on him only halfway in. He also, wasn't at full power during any of it because he was using his own energy to power his entire fortress.
Yeah, except that he would have actually succeeded in becoming Time itself if Shard hadn't betrayed him at the last second. He was defeated by being betrayed, NOT BY BRUTE FORCE. Shame on him for trusting someone I guess, but that point is moot in this battle.
Obviously I disagree on the knowledge thing, that will be a judgement call on the voters. And yes, his armor could withstand Durok for a while, but it probably wouldn't even be needed since Fitroy would end this quickly.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
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Rebuttal
Bishop was not frozen in time then to be able to do that. So if trevor is that powerful why did he not freeze everyone in place...hmm maybe because he could not do so
Well first we do not know how Durok can be affected given he his a Norse creature out of normal time. Durok was abondonned at the end of time by the Silver Surfer and found a way back to battle Thor during Ragnorak therefore it is not certain how time affects him.
Of course, that is assuming that Fitzroy can do all you say. Given he was defeated, either he was not willing to use his powers or more probably he was not able to. Fitzroy cannot simply freeze everyone in his presence which is certain given his defeat.
First of all how would he know the extent of his powers. He would not. I am not suggesting he would not do what he is best at just that he may not be as good at it as you suggest. Because listenning to you this guy should be able to defeat Galactus.
A mutant is very close to a Human. An asgardian is something wholly different and then a Golem magical creature is again something completely different. He does not have a soul which maybe what Durok drains at the end. I think it is debatable whether he can do what you suggest plus even if he has the ability and that is a big if, the process is not instantaneous nor easy. And that is certain.
Let me ask you this if he can simply freeze anone why did he not freeze Bishop and others. Why was he defeated? If you can freeze everyone instantaneously then you don't risk losing a battle against second tier (power wise) heroes.
First off each blow and blast stunned them and true they were not knocked out instantaneously but they were considerably more durable then Fitzroy with his armour.
Yes he had his fortress but one of the reasons he was able to INITIALLY defeat Bishop was that he had allies and robots in that castle who fought Bishop. He will have no such help here.
Durok would put Fitzroy away like the impacable creature Durok is.
kytrigger said:
Bishop was not frozen in time then to be able to do that. So if trevor is that powerful why did he not freeze everyone in place...hmm maybe because he could not do so
kytrigger said:
Well first we do not know how Durok can be affected given he his a Norse creature out of normal time. Durok was abondonned at the end of time by the Silver Surfer and found a way back to battle Thor during Ragnorak therefore it is not certain how time affects him.
Of course, that is assuming that Fitzroy can do all you say. Given he was defeated, either he was not willing to use his powers or more probably he was not able to. Fitzroy cannot simply freeze everyone in his presence which is certain given his defeat.
kytrigger said:
First of all how would he know the extent of his powers. He would not. I am not suggesting he would not do what he is best at just that he may not be as good at it as you suggest. Because listenning to you this guy should be able to defeat Galactus.
kytrigger said:
A mutant is very close to a Human. An asgardian is something wholly different and then a Golem magical creature is again something completely different. He does not have a soul which maybe what Durok drains at the end. I think it is debatable whether he can do what you suggest plus even if he has the ability and that is a big if, the process is not instantaneous nor easy. And that is certain.
kytrigger said:
Let me ask you this if he can simply freeze anone why did he not freeze Bishop and others. Why was he defeated? If you can freeze everyone instantaneously then you don't risk losing a battle against second tier (power wise) heroes.
kytrigger said:
First off each blow and blast stunned them and true they were not knocked out instantaneously but they were considerably more durable then Fitzroy with his armour.
kytrigger said:
Yes he had his fortress but one of the reasons he was able to INITIALLY defeat Bishop was that he had allies and robots in that castle who fought Bishop. He will have no such help here.
Durok would put Fitzroy away like the impacable creature Durok is.
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kytrigger said:
On what are you basing the opinion that the blasts are the weaker part of his arsenal?
kytrigger said:
Wel given apart he is from the future, I have not heard any arguments that would justify what you say. I will leave it to the voters as that is your wish.
kytrigger said:
That is true we do not know how long it took. It did happen mostly off panel but I can assume it took very little as SS heeding the call did not atke very long wjhat seemed to be less then an hour.
kytrigger said:
I get that but my question is why did he not keep him frozen in time as he should of been able to, according to you
kytrigger said:
Yes if he had succeeded he would have been very powerful but he FAILED...
kytrigger said:
As you say that is a judgement call for the voters as is the durability of the armour. I beleive it would not hold up very well and you defend it will. I do not have hard figures on the armour and unless you do I will leave it to voters to decide.
Winner - Durok
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Magik vs Black Panther
I figure it's more likely that Magik could find information on Black Panther than the other way around. But I doubt either of them will be able to find out very many details about the other's powers.
Magik's biggest disadvantage i that her Soulsword will not do any damage to T'Challa's body since it is not supernatural in nature. But since he does not know this, Black Panther will still react to the sword as he would any normal sword. Evading attacks and relying on his armor to protect him form the metal. Illyana can use this to her advantage, forcing T'Challa to defend himself.
But just because her sword won't hurt T'Challa doesn't it won't be an effective weapon. She can still use it to deflect and parry the Panther's attacks. And since both are well trained fighters, it will be something to watch.
But this isn't just going to be a battle of weapons and fighting skills. Magik's name isn't just for show. She's the Sorceress Supreme in Limbo. And, while her powers are diminished in our realm, she still has access to a variety of white and black magics.
Illyana can use her teleportation discs to stay one step ahead of the Panther, and even surprise him. She might even be able to teleport T'Challa into Limbo and leave him trapped there, ending the fight. And Magik can use her magic on T'Challa. She probably has a wide variety of spells she could cast for various effects, like slowing him down, or freezing him in place. Putting him to sleep, or just hitting him with energy blasts. Since there in Avalon, Illyana could probably find a number of different magical artifacts to amplify and/or modify her powers, giving her even more abilities and a wider variety of attacks.
And Magik still has her time travel wildcard. If she ever gets into a bad situation, she can take herslef back in time a few seconds, or even minutes, and change her tactics. In this way, she can use what T'Challa already did against him, in effect 'predicting' what he will do next.
The Black Panther is not someone to be messed with, normally. But this is no normal situation. I have no doubt T'Challa will make a fight out of this, but I think Illyana has too many resources available to her, especially in this location.
Magik wins
I figure it's more likely that Magik could find information on Black Panther than the other way around. But I doubt either of them will be able to find out very many details about the other's powers.
Magik's biggest disadvantage i that her Soulsword will not do any damage to T'Challa's body since it is not supernatural in nature. But since he does not know this, Black Panther will still react to the sword as he would any normal sword. Evading attacks and relying on his armor to protect him form the metal. Illyana can use this to her advantage, forcing T'Challa to defend himself.
But just because her sword won't hurt T'Challa doesn't it won't be an effective weapon. She can still use it to deflect and parry the Panther's attacks. And since both are well trained fighters, it will be something to watch.
But this isn't just going to be a battle of weapons and fighting skills. Magik's name isn't just for show. She's the Sorceress Supreme in Limbo. And, while her powers are diminished in our realm, she still has access to a variety of white and black magics.
Illyana can use her teleportation discs to stay one step ahead of the Panther, and even surprise him. She might even be able to teleport T'Challa into Limbo and leave him trapped there, ending the fight. And Magik can use her magic on T'Challa. She probably has a wide variety of spells she could cast for various effects, like slowing him down, or freezing him in place. Putting him to sleep, or just hitting him with energy blasts. Since there in Avalon, Illyana could probably find a number of different magical artifacts to amplify and/or modify her powers, giving her even more abilities and a wider variety of attacks.
And Magik still has her time travel wildcard. If she ever gets into a bad situation, she can take herslef back in time a few seconds, or even minutes, and change her tactics. In this way, she can use what T'Challa already did against him, in effect 'predicting' what he will do next.
The Black Panther is not someone to be messed with, normally. But this is no normal situation. I have no doubt T'Challa will make a fight out of this, but I think Illyana has too many resources available to her, especially in this location.
Magik wins
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REBUTTAL: Black Panther vs Magik
WINNER=BLACK PANTHER
Considering the fact that it's been shown that preparation and information gathering is pretty much everything the Black Panther is about when he's not ruling his country, I'd wager there's a bigger chance of him finding info than the other way around. Heck, his Kimoyo card would allow him to tap into a lot more resources than the other way around.wiegeabo said:
Definitely, although a case can be made for him learning about the Soulsword, but even I can think that would be taking it too far. This is definately a psychological advantage that Magik has.
But the Panther is a greatly superior combatant than Magik. She can fight well, he can fight good. I don't see her standing up to the likes of Captain America or Iron Fist and lasting more than a few seconds. The Panther really only needs to connect once or twice to put her down.
Except the Panther has a wide variety of resources at his disposal, mystical as well that will counteract these acts. Secondly, from what I've read of Magik, her first instinct is still to barge in with the sword rather than try and use her spells to take down her opponents. Thirdly, she's going to have to find T'Challa, something that will probably be a lot easier for the Panther, since he's incredibly stealthy. He can ward off a detection spell and use his technology to home in on her.
Similarly, the Panther could use King Solomon's frogs, but that'd be a highly unconventional method of combat, and this tactic is one that I've never seen Magik use with any frequency.
Except the Panther will be looking for those same resources and not even give Magik a chance to employ them. She's good, real good, but the Panther's better, and although it'd be a toughie, he would take her down more times than not.
WINNER=BLACK PANTHER
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Thunderbird vs Radioactive Man
In this rematch, we can be pretty sure that sure that both characters now know everything they need to know about the other. Radioactive Man can't let Thunderbird get close enough to use his maxed out power against him, and John can't attack Lu without somekind of protection against the radation without somekind of surprise attack. So this is going to come down to location.
Initially, the location doesn't look good for Thunderbird. Last time, he had plenty of ways to block Radiation Man's attacks while still getting close enough to fight him. There's not that kind of advantage here. Open areas benefit Lu, and even tight areas like a castle wouldn't likely block the radiation unless they happen to have some kind of energy dampening protective spells or be made of dampening materials. (Although, if they do have these properties, Thunderbird can beat Lu in a similar way he fought him last time.)
The one thing Thunderbird does have going for him is that both characters appear in different areas, giving John time to put together a plan. Since the area is populated, John will know that one of Lu's tactics will be to attack the people to draw him out. So John will try to warn the people, describing Lu's powers and the dangers he represents.
A number of people may flee, while others bravely decide to stay and fight alongside John. But they are on Otherworld. And, undoubtedly, there will be somekind of protective objects in the land. The people will either have this object and give it to John, or they will know where to find it and send him on a quest. And, once protected, Thunderbird can safely take on Lu and take him out of the fight.
The point of the story is that Lu is alone in this battle, while John can bring all the inhabitants of Otherworld on his side. And those people will either bring protective magics or magical objects into the fight, or protect John with those magics and objects so he can fight Lu himself.
There is strength in numbers, and even if they only play a supporting role, a hero like John can bring those numbers into the fight.
Thunderbird wins.
In this rematch, we can be pretty sure that sure that both characters now know everything they need to know about the other. Radioactive Man can't let Thunderbird get close enough to use his maxed out power against him, and John can't attack Lu without somekind of protection against the radation without somekind of surprise attack. So this is going to come down to location.
Initially, the location doesn't look good for Thunderbird. Last time, he had plenty of ways to block Radiation Man's attacks while still getting close enough to fight him. There's not that kind of advantage here. Open areas benefit Lu, and even tight areas like a castle wouldn't likely block the radiation unless they happen to have some kind of energy dampening protective spells or be made of dampening materials. (Although, if they do have these properties, Thunderbird can beat Lu in a similar way he fought him last time.)
The one thing Thunderbird does have going for him is that both characters appear in different areas, giving John time to put together a plan. Since the area is populated, John will know that one of Lu's tactics will be to attack the people to draw him out. So John will try to warn the people, describing Lu's powers and the dangers he represents.
A number of people may flee, while others bravely decide to stay and fight alongside John. But they are on Otherworld. And, undoubtedly, there will be somekind of protective objects in the land. The people will either have this object and give it to John, or they will know where to find it and send him on a quest. And, once protected, Thunderbird can safely take on Lu and take him out of the fight.
The point of the story is that Lu is alone in this battle, while John can bring all the inhabitants of Otherworld on his side. And those people will either bring protective magics or magical objects into the fight, or protect John with those magics and objects so he can fight Lu himself.
There is strength in numbers, and even if they only play a supporting role, a hero like John can bring those numbers into the fight.
Thunderbird wins.
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wiegeabo said:
Way too much speculation, very few actual statements of fact...
Lu's going to wait for john to show up, the people won't cause much problem to a guy who controls the power of a few hundred atomic bombs. Magic won't stop radiation. This one will be over quick
Once again i will say, the more people thunderbird brings, the easier for Lu to spread radiation poisoning. It'll also give lu plenty of targets to put in peril to keep john occupied. This just gives john more to worry about. Lu's got this fight locked up.
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hippy fascist said:
We used up all the old facts in the last match. Pretty much all we've got left is speculation on how the location will effect the battle.
But I can come up with a few more facts to throw out there: We're in a land full of magic and magical objects; neither of our characters will be able to utilize that magic alone, or even initially realize the land is full of magical power; Radiation Man will likely kill any civilains before getting their help in an attempt to throw John of his game, whereas John would try to help protect the people and end up getting help in return; every person Lu kills is just going to fuel John with anger and make him stronger and harder to put down.
And you keep describing radiation as if it's some special thing that can't be stopped. That's wrong. All radiation is is energy. That's a fact. It just happens to be of a shorter wavelength and higher energy level which gives it the ability to penetrate deeper into matter before it is stopped/absorbed. But it still can be blocked, absorbed, or redirected like any other form of energy. And magic/magical objects protect users from energy attacks all the time, so if John gets hold of any, Lu effectiveness becomes minimal.
And I still argue that Thunderbird has enough power, and tough enough hide, to resist Lu's attacks for a long time. Again I point to the Galactus fight. I know you like to say it was a weakened Galactus that anybody could beat. But if that is true, why did the entire Skrull fleet occupying Earth not fight him? They had technology far better than what Reed Richards came up with to fight Glactus. The answer: you don't fight Galactus, no matter how weak he is, because he can still wipe you out. A weak Galacuts was once taken down by an energy blast from a fully-powered Thanos, and he only went down for probably 30 seconds. And that was Thanos! John was able to punch his way into Galactus and still survived the resulting blast of energy (far more than Lu will be capable of). So I still think Thunderbird can bring Lu down with just fully 'hulked out' brute force. And since John's going to have the entire population of Otherworld itself on his side, it should be more than enough to handle Lu.
Thunderbird wins
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Edit: Double Post
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wiegeabo said:
Two things,
1. Ruling from the Judges: people in the area, I always viewed them like terrain, cowering and generally scared observers not an army to be fought over..
2. As said before, john can't hulk up, he can't risk it, especially if he's bringing these people with him. He's at low powered status so he'll go down easy!
The fact that you feel the need to bring them into the fight just proves how scared of Lu you are. One on one he could take john 9 times out of 10. He could use the people as a giant aplifier if you will for his powers, firing off blasts of radiation into the crowd anyway which is both going to distract and hurt john.
Lu will dominate this fight, he's taken on the avengers, thor, namor and many other threats more dangerous than John in the past. To label john a strategist is ridiculous, if he were an rpg character he'd be the tank. He is there to hit things, not to forge battle plans.
Lu on the other hand is a contemporary of reed richards and hank pym. He's a great thinker and has the physical skills to back it up. He recently *****ed hyperion who is significantly stronger that John. Lu will win this with ease, john is just outclassed.
WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!
wiegeabo
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hippy fascist said:Two things,
1. Ruling from the Judges: people in the area, I always viewed them like terrain, cowering and generally scared observers not an army to be fought over..
2. As said before, john can't hulk up, he can't risk it, especially if he's bringing these people with him. He's at low powered status so he'll go down easy!
The fact that you feel the need to bring them into the fight just proves how scared of Lu you are. One on one he could take john 9 times out of 10. He could use the people as a giant aplifier if you will for his powers, firing off blasts of radiation into the crowd anyway which is both going to distract and hurt john.
Lu will dominate this fight, he's taken on the avengers, thor, namor and many other threats more dangerous than John in the past. To label john a strategist is ridiculous, if he were an rpg character he'd be the tank. He is there to hit things, not to forge battle plans.
Lu on the other hand is a contemporary of reed richards and hank pym. He's a great thinker and has the physical skills to back it up. He recently *****ed hyperion who is significantly stronger that John. Lu will win this with ease, john is just outclassed.
WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!
On the contrary, John wouldn't bring the people into the fight, and he's not a brute idiot.
John's first instinct would be to protect the innocents because they're innocents. So, being the hero, he'd describe to the people the danger Lu represents to convince them to get out of harm's way. But, as typically happens in these situations, many will flee while some will choose to stay and fight for their homes. The difference this time is that, if they can get John somekind of magical protection, they don't need to stay. John can go into battle alone with no worries about going all out with his powers and no need to fear the radiation. The characters are allowed to use the resources of the location (that's why we change up locations), and the people in Otherworld are a valid resource.
And John may not be a brilliant strategiest, but he's no fool. He was War afterall, and he knows how to fight smart. And he won't underestimate Lu. He'll know that Lu will use the people as a trap, and use that to convince the people to flee (or help if they refuse to run). And any injuries to the populace will just fuel Thunderbird, making him an unstoppable machine.
I still say, if none of the populace are involved, John's got enough raw power when completely letting loose to take on Lu. Especially if he gets the drop on him and takes him by surprise (which he can set up before exploding with rage), avoiding most of Lu's attack before the battle truly starts. And god help Lu if John finds out anyone's been hurt of killed because I don't think anything will stop him.
Thunderbird wins
Rebuttal
Or maybe it was becasue Fitzroy had a personal vendetta against Bishop. Taht is why he constantly torured him and then at the end decided to actually beat him physically. It's because he hated the man. As for not freezing him in time, why would he? Bishop was powerless and couldn't do a thing to stop Fitzroy. The only reason he was still alive was because Fitzroy wanted him to actaully see him winning. Then, when Fitzroy's back was turned, Shard betrayed him and allowed Bishop tog get his power back, surprise Fitzroy for second and his portal closed on himself.
He didn't freeze him early on because of his personal vendetta with Bishop. And he didn't freeze him at the end, because he wanted Bishop to see what he was doing and because Bishpo was powerless to stop him. He didn't freeze him because he didn't need to.
Now while one can argue against his brash decisions of not freezing Bishop due to a personal vendetta, he would not have the same ill feelings against Durok, and would be more than happy to freeze him.
As for the time thing. Asgardians and gods aren't in a differnt time themselves. They live for hundreds of years, but time isn't any different for them.
No, he cannot freeze every single person, but he doesn't need to, he only needs to freeze one. And I stated already why he didn't freeze Bishop and destroy him, so I won't repeat it.
Well, I disagree that mutants and humans are very very similar. I mean just because anyone can drain one, doesn't mean they should necissarily be able to drain the other.
Now, that said, I will grant you that Durok might be a differnt case. Not because he's from Asgard, but because he was created via magic. LIke you said he doesn't have a soul (i guess, I actually don't know if he does or not) and that MAY be where he draws his energy from, or it could be form somewhere else. Fitzroy might be able to draw the energy from Durok, or he might not. Or it could be a mix and he might drain him, but it would be much slower than a human or mutant. But I do believe that he could still drain most of the inhabitants of Otherworld.
I already answered this in the begginning. Let me also ad though that he was making portals, AND powering his entire fortress with his power. While he definately can freeze someone, I am not saying it's the easiest thing in the world for him, but since he will be at full power, he could definately freeze him now.
ok...time out from the debate, but I have to point out that you used the word "impacable" to describe Durok. First off, bonus points for using a good word
t: .
Second, the dictionary describes impacable as: "Not to be appeased or quieted." I just find it funny since Durok is mute.
OK, now back to the debate...
I disagree, Durok is good at what he does, but what he does is limited. While Fitzroy might not have as much brute power, he definately trumps Durok in other ways with his power.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
Ahura Mazda said:
Or maybe it was becasue Fitzroy had a personal vendetta against Bishop. Taht is why he constantly torured him and then at the end decided to actually beat him physically. It's because he hated the man. As for not freezing him in time, why would he? Bishop was powerless and couldn't do a thing to stop Fitzroy. The only reason he was still alive was because Fitzroy wanted him to actaully see him winning. Then, when Fitzroy's back was turned, Shard betrayed him and allowed Bishop tog get his power back, surprise Fitzroy for second and his portal closed on himself.
He didn't freeze him early on because of his personal vendetta with Bishop. And he didn't freeze him at the end, because he wanted Bishop to see what he was doing and because Bishpo was powerless to stop him. He didn't freeze him because he didn't need to.
Now while one can argue against his brash decisions of not freezing Bishop due to a personal vendetta, he would not have the same ill feelings against Durok, and would be more than happy to freeze him.
I'm pretty sure that the reason he found a way back was because Loki retrieved him to fight in Ragnarok. Durok didn't really do anything, Loki went and got him.
As for the time thing. Asgardians and gods aren't in a differnt time themselves. They live for hundreds of years, but time isn't any different for them.
No, he cannot freeze every single person, but he doesn't need to, he only needs to freeze one. And I stated already why he didn't freeze Bishop and destroy him, so I won't repeat it.
And listening to you, Durok would defeat Beyonder, and destroy everything in existence with his concussive blasts. And while Fitzroy wouldn't stand a chance against Galactus, Durok is definately not in Galactus' level.
Well, I disagree that mutants and humans are very very similar. I mean just because anyone can drain one, doesn't mean they should necissarily be able to drain the other.
Now, that said, I will grant you that Durok might be a differnt case. Not because he's from Asgard, but because he was created via magic. LIke you said he doesn't have a soul (i guess, I actually don't know if he does or not) and that MAY be where he draws his energy from, or it could be form somewhere else. Fitzroy might be able to draw the energy from Durok, or he might not. Or it could be a mix and he might drain him, but it would be much slower than a human or mutant. But I do believe that he could still drain most of the inhabitants of Otherworld.
I already answered this in the begginning. Let me also ad though that he was making portals, AND powering his entire fortress with his power. While he definately can freeze someone, I am not saying it's the easiest thing in the world for him, but since he will be at full power, he could definately freeze him now.
and they also stood there trading blows with Durok letting him get his beatings in. Fitroy won't do that, he'll be on the move.
luckily for Fitzroy, he won't need it. ANd that's not the reason Fitzroy had the fortress, to battle Bishop. He was master of earth. He had the fortress and guards to patrol over all of earth. And he didn't need them to defeat Bishop/ He used Shard as bait, and when he got her, HE beat Bishop, then he torured him, then Bishop got free and Fitzroy beat him again.
ok...time out from the debate, but I have to point out that you used the word "impacable" to describe Durok. First off, bonus points for using a good word
t: .Second, the dictionary describes impacable as: "Not to be appeased or quieted." I just find it funny since Durok is mute.
OK, now back to the debate...
I disagree, Durok is good at what he does, but what he does is limited. While Fitzroy might not have as much brute power, he definately trumps Durok in other ways with his power.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
Rebuttal
Yeah, it's hard to say how ong it actaulyl took (once SS left, he would be quick, but Balder still had to clim Everest to get his attention and then deal with some stuff first) I'm sure it didn't take days or wnything, but I always just guessed it was the average length of a battle between brutes like those two.
He didn't do it because he hated Bishop and wanted to make it personal. ( I said more last time so I won't go into more details)
Of curse he failed. Him becoming time would have most liekyl destroyed the Marvel Universe, not somethign that they are going to print in a Bishop comic. The real question is why did he fail? That's because he got greedy with wanting Bishop to watch, and because he didn't see Shard betraying him.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
It's conjecture on my part, but I assumed it was so since the majority of his feats have been done using his hands. Mainly things like breaking the Silver Surfer's board (even though he did put it right back together) were done with his hands.Ahura Mazda said:
My arguments was that since he ruled the future, he would have access to any old data. As for not knowing who Durok is, he did participate in teh Ragnarok, which was a pretty well known event I thought. I'm sure this won't convicne you so it will be left up to the voters.
Yeah, it's hard to say how ong it actaulyl took (once SS left, he would be quick, but Balder still had to clim Everest to get his attention and then deal with some stuff first) I'm sure it didn't take days or wnything, but I always just guessed it was the average length of a battle between brutes like those two.
He didn't do it because he hated Bishop and wanted to make it personal. ( I said more last time so I won't go into more details)
Of curse he failed. Him becoming time would have most liekyl destroyed the Marvel Universe, not somethign that they are going to print in a Bishop comic. The real question is why did he fail? That's because he got greedy with wanting Bishop to watch, and because he didn't see Shard betraying him.
The best figures I have on it are that it has been destroyed by all of X-Force once and by the X-Men once. Each time he has built a new one that is much mroe powerful though (although I can't give figures on how powerful). Also, both the tiems he was defeated with his armor was before he had his power upgrade (he could only drain people and make one portal back then). Like you said, this isn't hard enough evidence to really sway you I assume so it will be left up to the voters.
Winner- Trevor Fitzroy
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Yet another Rebuttal
Therefore his energy powers could be as powerful as his strength which was already outstanding.
Ragnorak was a well known event to Asgardians and other celestial beings. To Earthlings it is a part of mythology and not something which was historically recorded. Just to give you an example no one really knows of Rune Thor.....outside of people who have read the comic in the real world....ours.
And what is te average length..this happenned in a few panels and Balder getting to the top of Mount Everest was a quick feat....
So he was being stupid or overconfident then ...that is your line of discussion and you put forward that here he would not be here because he is totally different given you are writing this
I do not think it was quite that level or you would have seen entities like eternity or the LT or others of that sort. Only the Watcher came to see meaning it was significant, but not a threat to the whole Universe.
With regard the battle against Bishop, again as you state, he got overconfidant.
Of course, Trever never faced a force of nature like Durok. Trevor is clearly not on the same power level as Thor or the Silver Surfer. And therefore in a physical battle, there can only be one result. Durok would live up to his name and demolish Trevor.
For Trevor to win, he would have to be able to instantaneously freeze and then drain the life force or teleport Durok to another dimension. It is not clear whether he can drain Durok which in essence is a magical Asgardian golem. Also, Trevor cannot instantaneously freeze a creature like Durok. His powers do not work that well. And given the difference in physical prowess it is likely that Durok would make short work of Trevor completely destroying his armour and him.
Winner - Durok
kytrigger said:
Therefore his energy powers could be as powerful as his strength which was already outstanding.
kytrigger said:
Ragnorak was a well known event to Asgardians and other celestial beings. To Earthlings it is a part of mythology and not something which was historically recorded. Just to give you an example no one really knows of Rune Thor.....outside of people who have read the comic in the real world....ours.
kytrigger said:
And what is te average length..this happenned in a few panels and Balder getting to the top of Mount Everest was a quick feat....
kytrigger said:
So he was being stupid or overconfident then ...that is your line of discussion and you put forward that here he would not be here because he is totally different given you are writing this
kytrigger said:
I do not think it was quite that level or you would have seen entities like eternity or the LT or others of that sort. Only the Watcher came to see meaning it was significant, but not a threat to the whole Universe.
With regard the battle against Bishop, again as you state, he got overconfidant.
kytrigger said:
Of course, Trever never faced a force of nature like Durok. Trevor is clearly not on the same power level as Thor or the Silver Surfer. And therefore in a physical battle, there can only be one result. Durok would live up to his name and demolish Trevor.
For Trevor to win, he would have to be able to instantaneously freeze and then drain the life force or teleport Durok to another dimension. It is not clear whether he can drain Durok which in essence is a magical Asgardian golem. Also, Trevor cannot instantaneously freeze a creature like Durok. His powers do not work that well. And given the difference in physical prowess it is likely that Durok would make short work of Trevor completely destroying his armour and him.
Winner - Durok
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