Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

[Phaedrus45]

Power Princess-Exiles vs. Silver Samurai:

This seems like a one-sided match, and that's exactly what it is. Here is a list of each character's powers.

Power Princess:

AbilitiesFlight
Invulnerability
Superhuman strength and speed
Does not age
Over 500 years of combat experience

An even better bio is here, http://www.marvel.com/universe/Power_Princess_(Earth-712, and it states:

Powers Superhuman strength allowing her to lift twenty tons. Zarda is resistant to conventional injury which falls just short of making her bulletproof. Zarda also ages at a much slower rate then normal humans and is highly resistant to diseases. Zarda also has superhuman speed, stamina, agility, and reflexes. Abilities Experienced hand-to-hand combatant, acrobat, and experienced discus thrower Weapons Zarda wields a transparent circular shield which is composed of an unnamed substance which is virtually indestructible and in some as yet undisclosed manner provides lift and propulsion to enable her to fly while in contact with it. the shield allows Zarda to fly at subsonic speeds. Paraphernalia Zarda wears bracelets and armbands both arms; the pair on the left arm attach to Zarda's shield while flying. Zarda occasionally wears golden or purple battle armor made of a steel alloy. Zarda's battle armor was crafted by Tom Thumb. Power Princess has also used a Utopian underwater pressure suit.


Silver Samurai:

Silver Samurai, the illegitimate son of Shingen Yashida, has the power to channel energy through his sword, allowing it to cut through almost anything.

Also:

AbilitiesChannel mutant energy into anything, most commonly a sword, to create a tachyon field capable of cutting anything except adamantium
-Teleportation ring


So, let's talk location and knowledge of the other character. There isn't anything that suggests that Silver Samurai would know anything about Power Princess, as she's not from the 616. But, Power Princess would know everything about Silver Samurai and the location, simply for the fact that she has access to the Panoptichron. Power Princess will know all of Silver Samurai's secrets and history, and use it to her advantage. While the sword can cut through almost anything, it would do little good in this match. Power Princess might be vulnerable, but her shield isn't. Plus, with flight, Power Princess can stay out of reach.

Now, Silver Samurai is an expert fighter; but, even Power Princess surpasses him in this field, with over 500 years of combat experience. In fact, I ask to readers to think about all the appearances of Silver Samurai that they might have read. How many times does he come out victorious? Very rarely.

Simply put, when your opponent knows everything about you, has more experience and knowledge at her disposal, you are at a complete disadvantage.

Winner = Power Princess

 

[Phaedrus45]

Have you changed your mind?

Well, as it says, "very similiar," but it doesn't say it is the Planet Hulk version. Planet Hulk is an ongoing storyline, and cannot be used. Basically, we were letting everyone know there are many versions of the Hulk, and that intelligence-wise, he's "very similiar" to the Planet Hulk version.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Marvel's take on Wonder Woman.

To me, it's more Marvel's take on the DC characters, and what would happen if they used their powers to exert control over the world. But, all the talk about her similarities, or lack of, are really a mute point. They have no relevance to this match.

She has enhanced durability, but it goes just short of bullets harming her The only thing that she has over Wonder Woman is that she is taller (she's 6'8) and I don't se that being a real big advantage (unless they competing in the WNBA).

The use of putting down my character's abilities fail to acknowledge her shield, "which is composed of an unnamed substance which is virtually indestructible." Plus, there are many of her abilities, like flight, which you fail to mention. (In fact, "the shield allows Zarda to fly at subsonic speeds.") What about the mention of her 500 years of combat experience or that she's an "experienced discus thrower," which would help to lob off Silver Samurai's head before he had a chance to get near her.

Silver Samurai can teleport, and can create an energy field around his sword (other thigns too but usually his sword) that allows it to cut through almost anything. Along with this he has of course amazing skill at martial arts and usinga sword. Basically he's like a Jedi that can teleport.

A jedi??!!?? This is clearly a different Silver Samurai than I've been reading over the years. Silver Samurai has consistently shown that he can easily be defeated. I also want to point out that Silver Samurai's sense of honor would not have him teleport away from a fight. He prides himself in not being a coward, and he wouldn't run from a fight.

Prep teim wise, I don't knwo who would be at an advantage. Power Princes has been on Earth 616 befoer and has fough with/against the Avengers so is is known. At the same time, Silver Samurai is well known as well. Both I am suere have very good databases of knowledge on super powered people so both can get info on each other.

As I mentioned in my opening debate, Power Princess rules prep-time, and even you'd need to acknowledge this fact. Silver Samurai would not have access to the Avenger's database, and since he doesn't even reside in the states, would have no knowledge of Power Princess. The few times Power Princess has been to the 616, that would end up being classified Avenger's information, and I doubt Silver Samurai would know that. There paths have never crossed. If Power Princess wasn't the Exiles version, then she would have the same handicap...but, the simple fact is that she has access to the Panoptichron, and she'd know everything about Silver Samurai and the location.

Another thing that can come into play is the location. If Subterranea is one thing, it is dark. Hardly any light at all. While you might think that woudl affect both contestants, it woudln't be nearly as harmful to Silver Samurai. Why? Because he's a ninja! He has mastered many martial art forms over the years of both Japan and China, and I am sure Ninjutsu would be one of those forms.

Yeah, it's dark...but, Power Princess has flight, which means Silver Samurai would have no chance of getting off the first blow. Also, Silver Samurai has never been the master of stealth. I just ask the voters to look at his costume. It's bright and shiny silver. It's clangs when you walk. This is clearly not someone who will "hide in the shadows." Plus, I will point out that one thing Silver Samurai does have is a sense of honor. He won't stab someone in the back, much less another warrior. He's more likely to meet them face-to-face. (This is not who Power Princess is, though. She'll take him out any means necessary.)

Basically he would take advantage of teh darkness to get a surprise attack on Power Princess. He knows she is much stronger than him so he won't waste time, he'll want to end the fight quickly. He'll also have no qualms about killing her. He'll know that she is a warrior too and that death is the greatest honor he can give her in battle. And even though she has enhanced endurance, if she can be hurt by a bullet, then she can be cut by his sword.

He wouldn't (and couldn't, as explained above) take advantage of the darkness. He would "surprise attack" her, because it goes against his sense of honor. He wouldn't know a thing about my character. Plus, he wouldn't know about her shield, and how it will not be cut by his sword.

Meanwhile, as I've pointed out, Power Princess will have full knowledge of her opponent and location. She'll have flight. (And, just in case you want to point out we are in caves, I'll point out that in the comics, these caves are giagantic in size. Just thinking back to the Fantastic Four exploring them, they always mentioned how huge the caves were.) Silver Samurai won't know who he's fighting or her abilities. He doesn't have 500 years of combat experience. Simply put, Silver Samurai is outclassed in every way.

Winner = Power Princess-Exiles

 

[kytrigger]

To me, it's more Marvel's take on the DC characters, and what would happen if they used their powers to exert control over the world. But, all the talk about her similarities, or lack of, are really a mute point. They have no relevance to this match.

Except fo rhte fact that if anyone has even heard of Power Princess, the first thing that comes to most people's minds is "a lot like Wonder Woman". Taht's why I included the reference and started to point out differences. It might be a mute point in the actualy battle strategy, but not a mute point when you take into account the people that are reading this.

The use of putting down my character's abilities fail to acknowledge her shield, "which is composed of an unnamed substance which is virtually indestructible." Plus, there are many of her abilities, like flight, which you fail to mention. (In fact, "the shield allows Zarda to fly at subsonic speeds.") What about the mention of her 500 years of combat experience or that she's an "experienced discus thrower," which would help to lob off Silver Samurai's head before he had a chance to get near her.

okay, her shield is virtually indestructable. His blade can cut through virtually anything so it could go either way.. Yes, I failed to mention flight, and you failed to mention that while she is flying through these caverns, she won't be able to see anything. There is almost no light in the caverns, and even though they are extremely large, flying at subsonic speeds in the dark might be the worst thing she could do. Maybe I should change my strategy to just having Silver Samurai stand and do nothing and just wait for her to fly into a wall and knock herself out.

Also, throwing a discus or anything else is going to be almost impossible as well (for both) seeing as how neither will be able to see much of anything.

A jedi??!!?? This is clearly a different Silver Samurai than I've been reading over the years. Silver Samurai has consistently shown that he can easily be defeated. I also want to point out that Silver Samurai's sense of honor would not have him teleport away from a fight. He prides himself in not being a coward, and he wouldn't run from a fight.

And you can't just chalk up his defeats in the comics and say that is how the fight would go. If that were the case I would say that Power Princess would just fall in love with Silver samurai and give up to be with him because "that is what she does".
I also never said he would teleport away from a fight. I agree that he wouldn't do that because of his honor. He can however teleport closer to her, or to a different location just as close to her. Remember, she can't see where the hell he'll be going, but He will know where he is teleporting too.

As I mentioned in my opening debate, Power Princess rules prep-time, and even you'd need to acknowledge this fact. Silver Samurai would not have access to the Avenger's database, and since he doesn't even reside in the states, would have no knowledge of Power Princess. The few times Power Princess has been to the 616, that would end up being classified Avenger's information, and I doubt Silver Samurai would know that. There paths have never crossed. If Power Princess wasn't the Exiles version, then she would have the same handicap...but, the simple fact is that she has access to the Panoptichron, and she'd know everything about Silver Samurai and the location.

I didn't say she wouldn't have any knowledge of him. And I might be wrong, but I thought that Silver Samurai had allied himself with HYDRA since he's been back? I know they met with him (I think in New Avengers). If he has indeed become allies with HYDRA, then I would think their database would have her in it form the time she was on Earth 616.

Yeah, it's dark...but, Power Princess has flight, which means Silver Samurai would have no chance of getting off the first blow. Also, Silver Samurai has never been the master of stealth. I just ask the voters to look at his costume. It's bright and shiny silver. It's clangs when you walk. This is clearly not someone who will "hide in the shadows." Plus, I will point out that one thing Silver Samurai does have is a sense of honor. He won't stab someone in the back, much less another warrior. He's more likely to meet them face-to-face. (This is not who Power Princess is, though. She'll take him out any means necessary.)

Once again, flight + not being able to see does not equal any type of advantage. As for the stealth part, I have only ever seen him fight in daylight. While I agree that the armor isn't best used for stealth, he can take it off. This isn't some magically attached armor or anything. He has been shown a numbe rof times with it off. When he sees he is in almost complete darkenss, he will see that his best offense strategy is to use the darkness to his advantage. He'll remove the armor.

Also, I agree that he won't just stab Power Princess in the back, but that won't keep him from ending the fight that way. He has a teleporter ring and has used it in combat before without his honor stopping him, and he would do so again.

As for Power Princess not caring about honor, I don't know. I feel she would being a Utopian and since she has been a warrior so long, but that is my opinion. I doubt I could change yours, it's one of those tings that is left up to the voters (unless you can provide an example of her doing something dishonorable to attain victory, then I would concede it).

All those extra advantages you mentioned are pretty much pointless as I've stated above. What this fight comes down to is:

A woman with a strength advantage, a tough shield, and is extremely good at fighting
vs. A man that is physically overpowered but has teleportation and can use the darkness to his advantage, and a sword that can cut through almost anything.

Like I said earlier, I am not sure if his sword could cut through her shield (it would actually be interesting to see) but if it doesn't, he can teleport around her and strike her from teh side or back (which is still honorable since they are already engaged in combat).

Winner-Silver Samurai

 

[Phaedrus45]

okay, her shield is virtually indestructable. His blade can cut through virtually anything so it could go either way.. Yes, I failed to mention flight, and you failed to mention that while she is flying through these caverns, she won't be able to see anything. There is almost no light in the caverns, and even though they are extremely large, flying at subsonic speeds in the dark might be the worst thing she could do. Maybe I should change my strategy to just having Silver Samurai stand and do nothing and just wait for her to fly into a wall and knock herself out.

But, if you've noticed all the times we've seen subterranea in the comics, there has never been any problem with seeing what's in front of you. (After all, we're not going to have a bunch of Marvel characters fighting in pitch black locations. That would make the entire week's battle's totally different than anything we've ever done.) Plus, Power Princess will know about many of these caves with information she'd find in the Panoptichron.

Also, throwing a discus or anything else is going to be almost impossible as well (for both) seeing as how neither will be able to see much of anything.

Again, I've never seen Marvel heroes have trouble seeing around them in Subterranea.

And you can't just chalk up his defeats in the comics and say that is how the fight would go. If that were the case I would say that Power Princess would just fall in love with Silver samurai and give up to be with him because "that is what she does".

But, you can say that a voter can look at who a character is in comics and what they've accomplished, and that past behavior is indicitive of future results. Just like with Silver Samurai's code of honor and knowing he has never been one to hide in the shadows, or would be able to hide in the shadows.

I also never said he would teleport away from a fight. I agree that he wouldn't do that because of his honor. He can however teleport closer to her, or to a different location just as close to her. Remember, she can't see where the hell he'll be going, but He will know where he is teleporting too.

That will do little good if she's up in the air flying around. (She doesn't have to fly at subsonic speeds either.) If he teleports closer, he falls to the ground dead. Plus, while I'm thinking about it, you mentioned that Power Princess " can only lift about 20 tons," like it's some small accomplishment. Imagine a 20 ton boulder falling on Silver Samurai from above. SPLAT!!! Silver Splat is his new name. 20 tons, while not on Hulk level, is still a hell of a lot more than Silver Samurai could ever dream of doing.

I might be wrong, but I thought that Silver Samurai had allied himself with HYDRA since he's been back? I know they met with him (I think in New Avengers). If he has indeed become allies with HYDRA, then I would think their database would have her in it form the time she was on Earth 616.

Silver Samurai has aligned with and betrayed many different people and organizations over the years. Here is the most recent information about who he's aligned with:

For a time, for unclear reasons, the Samurai was apprehended in the Raft prison in America, but got freed by Viper and the Hand, who transported him back to Japan. The Hand wanted the Samurai to lead them, but he wasn't interested in a war and even watched the Avengers defeat them. Afterward, he decided to try to earn his good name back by serving the people of Japan once again.

So, he wouldn't have access to Hydra information.

Once again, flight + not being able to see does not equal any type of advantage. As for the stealth part, I have only ever seen him fight in daylight. While I agree that the armor isn't best used for stealth, he can take it off. This isn't some magically attached armor or anything. He has been shown a numbe rof times with it off. When he sees he is in almost complete darkenss, he will see that his best offense strategy is to use the darkness to his advantage. He'll remove the armor.

Now, you've given me even more advantage by having him strip down to his clothing. He's always with his armor, and he'd at least want to be protected. Now, the 20 ton boulder really goes SPLAT. And, this isn't an area where people are walking around in pitch dark. Like with all comic appearances showing the large caverns of subterranea, you can see what's in front of you.

As for Power Princess not caring about honor, I don't know. I feel she would being a Utopian and since she has been a warrior so long, but that is my opinion. I doubt I could change yours, it's one of those tings that is left up to the voters (unless you can provide an example of her doing something dishonorable to attain victory, then I would concede it).

With all that I've read of her, she seems like she'll win by any means necessary.

Again, this contest simply comes down to a guy with a sword and a teleportation ring who wouldn't know much about Power Princess. In almost every regard, Power Princess has the clear advantage. Marvel characters have been shown to be able to see everything around them as they walked these caves and areas within Subterranea, and even if there were dark spots, she could still stay afloat in the air without having to worry about Silver Samurai getting close to her.

Winner = Power Princess

 

[Phaedrus45]

NOTE:

In finding more information about Power Princess, I came upon another biography that states the following:

Powers and Abilities:
Kree eugenic experiments give her superhuman strength, speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, vision, hearing, and resistance to physical injury, carries a transparent shield for protection which enables her to fly

What you will notice is how it says that Kree eugenic experiments gave her superhuman vision and hearing. This only shows that being able to hide will be a problem for Silver Samurai and her being able to see in the caves will not be as much of a problem as my opponent believes her to be.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well, as it says, "very similiar," but it doesn't say it is the Planet Hulk version. Planet Hulk is an ongoing storyline, and cannot be used. Basically, we were letting everyone know there are many versions of the Hulk, and that intelligence-wise, he's "very similiar" to the Planet Hulk version.

In that case, this is the same Hulk as that is the only thing which is a bit different about him. Power wise he is the same. As uber as ever.

Thank you for the answer.

 

[Phaedrus45]

In that case, this is the same Hulk as that is the only thing which is a bit different about him. Power wise he is the same. As uber as ever.

Thank you for the answer.

No problem. Just had to make sure the storyline rule was clearly understood with the character.

 

[kytrigger]

But, if you've noticed all the times we've seen subterranea in the comics, there has never been any problem with seeing what's in front of you. (After all, we're not going to have a bunch of Marvel characters fighting in pitch black locations. That would make the entire week's battle's totally different than anything we've ever done.) Plus, Power Princess will know about many of these caves with information she'd find in the Panoptichron.

Well of course you could see it in the comics otherwise it would just be a giant black page .

I don't see how there could be much light though unless it was brought in from an outside source (like the Fantasticar) or from torches or something electric (like in Moleman's cavern) Also, light would be pretty easy for the Fantastic Four to come by seeing as they have a man that can turn into fire. I honestly don't know because I don't have any of those comics, but unless there is some way for light to actually get in there I would still think it is pretty dark.

And there's nothing wrong with having a match that is completely different than all the other...t:

Once again, since I don't believe you could much much at all, I don't think knowing info on the caves would help that much. (Obviously all my objections are pretty much lumped into that whole "it's dark" argument here). It will probably be one of those things that the voter's will have to decide for themselves.

But, you can say that a voter can look at who a character is in comics and what they've accomplished, and that past behavior is indicitive of future results. Just like with Silver Samurai's code of honor and knowing he has never been one to hide in the shadows, or would be able to hide in the shadows.

You're right. I do believe the voters will look at both character's defeats and accomplishments. I also thnk that the voter's will look at them objectively enough and see that even though Silver Samurai has been beaten many times, he isn't a imbecile. He actually knows how to fight, is rather smart at battle tactics, and should be considered extremely dangerous.

That will do little good if she's up in the air flying around. (She doesn't have to fly at subsonic speeds either.) If he teleports closer, he falls to the ground dead. Plus, while I'm thinking about it, you mentioned that Power Princess " can only lift about 20 tons," like it's some small accomplishment. Imagine a 20 ton boulder falling on Silver Samurai from above. SPLAT!!! Silver Splat is his new name. 20 tons, while not on Hulk level, is still a hell of a lot more than Silver Samurai could ever dream of doing.

Well I still think that flying in almost absolute darkness is a bad idea and she won't really use it. Also, you misunderstood my part about the teleportation. Since I don't think she would be in the air, he could teleport closer to her and wouldn't have to worry about falling to his death.

And yes, 20 tons is much more than silver samurai could ever lift. I was simply stating it to defend against a possible future argument of her being able to punch everything and bring whole caverns down. (I put it in because I have another debate with someone where that is actually part of there strategy, but the character is much stronger than Power Princess). But once again, I don't think throwing things would be of much help becasue of the whole darkness thing (shocking i know).

Silver Samurai has aligned with and betrayed many different people and organizations over the years. Here is the most recent information about who he's aligned with:
For a time, for unclear reasons, the Samurai was apprehended in the Raft prison in America, but got freed by Viper and the Hand, who transported him back to Japan. The Hand wanted the Samurai to lead them, but he wasn't interested in a war and even watched the Avengers defeat them. Afterward, he decided to try to earn his good name back by serving the people of Japan once again.
So, he wouldn't have access to Hydra information.

okay, I'll concede that he probably wouldn't be able to get any info on her before hand then. (I knew he had dealt with HYDRA and the Hand recently, I just couldn't remember the rest of the story)

Thankfully, this doesn't change much. While he won't know about her strength in the beginning, once he knows that the woman is 6'8 he will be able to safely assume that she's strong as hell. I know I would.

Now, you've given me even more advantage by having him strip down to his clothing. He's always with his armor, and he'd at least want to be protected. Now, the 20 ton boulder really goes SPLAT. And, this isn't an area where people are walking around in pitch dark. Like with all comic appearances showing the large caverns of subterranea, you can see what's in front of you.

How is him taking off his armor more of an advantage? You've already stated that she is much stronger than him. Whether he is wearing the armor or not, if she gets a hold of him, he's going down. He might as well be more agile adn a hell of a lot more stealthy instead. No matter what he does, she will be able to overpower him, so instead he will increase his other attributes to help compensate for this (I'm sure there is somethign like this in the Art of War).

Again, this contest simply comes down to a guy with a sword and a teleportation ring who wouldn't know much about Power Princess. In almost every regard, Power Princess has the clear advantage. Marvel characters have been shown to be able to see everything around them as they walked these caves and areas within Subterranea, and even if there were dark spots, she could still stay afloat in the air without having to worry about Silver Samurai getting close to her.

I won't go into the whoel darkness thing again, but you do mention that she could float above him even it it were dark. While it's true it would be hard for him to hurt her form there, she couldn't hurt him back either (asuming it is dark)

Winner- Silver Samurai

 

[kytrigger]

NOTE:

In finding more information about Power Princess, I came upon another biography that states the following:

Powers and Abilities:
Kree eugenic experiments give her superhuman strength, speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, vision, hearing, and resistance to physical injury, carries a transparent shield for protection which enables her to fly

What you will notice is how it says that Kree eugenic experiments gave her superhuman vision and hearing. This only shows that being able to hide will be a problem for Silver Samurai and her being able to see in the caves will not be as much of a problem as my opponent believes her to be.

It doesn't say that her vision can see in different spectrums of light or anything though. If she can just see farther, then it doesn't really affect anything. If there is no light, then you can't see no matter how good your vision is. (once again the darkness argument t: )

As for the hearing, I see that as more of a disadvantage for her than anything. She has super hearing in a giant cave system that most likely echoes like none other. That like putting a bullhorn right next to the ears of Daredevil.

While that is obviously an extreme version, I just threw it in to show that super hearing isn't always an advantage. While I doubt the echoes would actually hurt her (like the Daredevil thing) It would definately mess with her if she tried to listen for footsteps or anything.

 

[Hellstormer]

BRACKET 2,

Match 15:

Archangel (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio



vs.

Metarchus (HELLSTORMER) bio

(photo unavailable)

Angels' screwed Metarchus, from what her bio says, gains all the physical characteristics of the monster she morphs to, if she morphs to a banshee she'll be able to fly and release sonic screams which would completely destroy the frail old angel or diorient him and when that's finish she'll morph into a werewolf and go savage on him. He's done.

Winner=Metarchus

 

[Phaedrus45]

I don't see how there could be much light though unless it was brought in from an outside source (like the Fantasticar) or from torches or something electric (like in Moleman's cavern) Also, light would be pretty easy for the Fantastic Four to come by seeing as they have a man that can turn into fire. I honestly don't know because I don't have any of those comics, but unless there is some way for light to actually get in there I would still think it is pretty dark.

And there's nothing wrong with having a match that is completely different than all the other...t:

Once again, since I don't believe you could much much at all, I don't think knowing info on the caves would help that much. (Obviously all my objections are pretty much lumped into that whole "it's dark" argument here). It will probably be one of those things that the voter's will have to decide for themselves.

Again, I'll just point out that all appearances I have read involving Subterranea, which have actually been quite a few times, people don't seem to have trouble navigating the caves. Of course, this is comics, so it would be ridiculous to have a pitch dark cave your heroes and villians cannot see in. But, this is a comics contest, and reality is thrown out the window. We can only go with how we've seen the place described in comics. And, from what I've seen, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, the West Coast Avengers, and Spider-Man have all been able to see fine in the caves. If this wasn't the case, pretty much everyone this week would have to rethink their battle stategies.

You're right. I do believe the voters will look at both character's defeats and accomplishments. I also thnk that the voter's will look at them objectively enough and see that even though Silver Samurai has been beaten many times, he isn't a imbecile. He actually knows how to fight, is rather smart at battle tactics, and should be considered extremely dangerous.

No, I don't think he's an embecile. I just think his sense of honor and his misguided judgement is his downfall, usually. Also, his previous appearances will show that he's not one to hide in the shadows and sneak around.

Well I still think that flying in almost absolute darkness is a bad idea and she won't really use it. Also, you misunderstood my part about the teleportation. Since I don't think she would be in the air, he could teleport closer to her and wouldn't have to worry about falling to his death.

It would be more ridiculous an idea to walk around in a cave when you know your opponent has a potential weapon that could harm you. She will know everything about Silver Samurai, and bumping into a wall wouldn't bother her. She's practically immune to pain. Power Princess is very logical, and logic says to stay airborne.

And yes, 20 tons is much more than silver samurai could ever lift. I was simply stating it to defend against a possible future argument of her being able to punch everything and bring whole caverns down. (I put it in because I have another debate with someone where that is actually part of there strategy, but the character is much stronger than Power Princess). But once again, I don't think throwing things would be of much help becasue of the whole darkness thing (shocking i know).

Well, she does have advanced eyesight and hearing...so, I think she'd be able to throw just fine. And, if not, dropping a big boulder on him would be sufficient.

How is him taking off his armor more of an advantage? You've already stated that she is much stronger than him. Whether he is wearing the armor or not, if she gets a hold of him, he's going down. He might as well be more agile adn a hell of a lot more stealthy instead. No matter what he does, she will be able to overpower him, so instead he will increase his other attributes to help compensate for this (I'm sure there is somethign like this in the Art of War).

I'd gladly take him without his armor...I just think it's unlikely. Without his armor, he doesn't have much defense for his body, and all Power Princess has to do is cause a cave-in, and he's done for. (If she can lift 20 tons, she can cause many rocks from the cave ceiling to fall on him.)

I won't go into the whoel darkness thing again, but you do mention that she could float above him even it it were dark. While it's true it would be hard for him to hurt her form there, she couldn't hurt him back either (asuming it is dark)

She could do plenty damage from above. Just see my explanation above.

Winner = Power Princess

 

[Iceman]

OPENING DEBATE: ARCHANGEL Vs METARCHUS

In my opinion Archangel is the weaker character here and Metarchus would most likely progress further than his opponent in this competition if he were to win this match.


Metarchus would know of the X-Man Archangel but would not know a great deal more than that the character can fly. Given the location, he will not consider a flyer to be any threat whatsoever and will consider the match a waste of time.

On the other hand Angel, using the resources of the X-Men or those available to him through his persona as the billionaire Warren Worthington and through his company Worthington Enterprises will be able to find the basic information he needs.

Having discovered the nature of his opponent, he will realise there is a chance of victory and that chance lies within his blood. There is every possibility that the healing properties transferable through his blood could well prove fatal to his opponent.

With this knowledge he can prepare vials of his own blood during his day of prep time to use as weapons (hurling will be sufficient although that old school bazooka could make for a glorious victory here t. He can call up Metarchus and similar villains from the Danger Room memory banks and test out his plans using the industry leading labs of his company until he is succesful.

WINNER = ARCHANGEL

 

[Hellstormer]

Actually I think the only way he could get info is through is Defender's clearence not X-Man or his resources because Metarchus is a mystic being.

Rebuttal

OPENING DEBATE: ARCHANGEL Vs METARCHUS

Metarchus would know of the X-Man Archangel but would not know a great deal more than that the character can fly. Given the location, he will not consider a flyer to be any threat whatsoever and will consider the match a waste of time.

True but just because he goes in thinking that doesn't mean he won't change his strategy to fit the circumstances.

With this knowledge he can prepare vials of his own blood during his day of prep time to use as weapons (hurling will be sufficient although that old school bazooka could make for a glorious victory here t. He can call up Metarchus and similar villains from the Danger Room memory banks and test out his plans using the industry leading labs of his company until he is succesful.

Meta isn't stupid after he gets hit with one of theose vials he'll turn into something with a hard exterior shell and then try to dig into the tunnels to limit Warren's flying. Now Warren won't be stupid enough to follow but if Meta can positon himself above Warren he can bust through the dirt turn into a golem and just land on him and if he should dodge Meta can turn into a Colossus so he has a good armor shell; against tghe blood and then just rip out Warren's throat.

Winner=Metachus

 

[kytrigger]

Again, I'll just point out that all appearances I have read involving Subterranea, which have actually been quite a few times, people don't seem to have trouble navigating the caves. Of course, this is comics, so it would be ridiculous to have a pitch dark cave your heroes and villians cannot see in. But, this is a comics contest, and reality is thrown out the window. We can only go with how we've seen the place described in comics. And, from what I've seen, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, the West Coast Avengers, and Spider-Man have all been able to see fine in the caves. If this wasn't the case, pretty much everyone this week would have to rethink their battle stategies.

I understand that, but if you use the whole "reality is thrown out " scenario, I could say that they brought in external lighting (like Fantasticar, or even just Iron Man and Human Torch etc.) that we just didn't see. It could honestly go both ways. To tell you the truth, I highly doubt either of us is going to waver on this part, and we are pretty much just repeating ourselves so I was thinking that this might be our last rebuttal (unless one of us brings up any new info of course.)

No, I don't think he's an embecile. I just think his sense of honor and his misguided judgement is his downfall, usually. Also, his previous appearances will show that he's not one to hide in the shadows and sneak around.

Well, it's good you don't think he's a complete idiot, because it does seem that most people think he is. And while he has never been shown to hide in the shadows, you also have to remember that the majority of his battles we've seen are against Wolverine, who he has a very...deep...history with. He would want Logan to know he is being attacked and beaten by Silver Samurai, it's a psychological thing. This is different since he has never met Power Princess so he carries no "emotional baggage" with him.


[/quote]Well, she does have advanced eyesight and hearing...so, I think she'd be able to throw just fine. And, if not, dropping a big boulder on him would be sufficient.[/quote] I talked about this earlier. Once again my whole darkness angle stops the eyesight thing, and the hearing is also non-problematic due to the echoes in the cave. (I went inot more detail earlier).

I'd gladly take him without his armor...I just think it's unlikely. Without his armor, he doesn't have much defense for his body, and all Power Princess has to do is cause a cave-in, and he's done for. (If she can lift 20 tons, she can cause many rocks from the cave ceiling to fall on him.)

A cave in wouldn't work, unless she was plannign on caving in the entire subterranea (which she coudln't do). Remember he can just teleport to a different area. He could even stay in the same cavern and teleport around since they are so big that she couldn't even cave-in one of the caverns. She would also have to worry about caving herself in too.



Winner-Silver Samurai

 

[Phaedrus45]

I understand that, but if you use the whole "reality is thrown out " scenario, I could say that they brought in external lighting (like Fantasticar, or even just Iron Man and Human Torch etc.) that we just didn't see. It could honestly go both ways. To tell you the truth, I highly doubt either of us is going to waver on this part, and we are pretty much just repeating ourselves so I was thinking that this might be our last rebuttal (unless one of us brings up any new info of course.)

But, even if it was pitch black in the caverns, don't you think those characters with resources would make sure they have a light source on their person before their 24 hour preptime is finished? To me, Power Princess would have a means to see in the dark if it was that way.

Well, it's good you don't think he's a complete idiot, because it does seem that most people think he is. And while he has never been shown to hide in the shadows, you also have to remember that the majority of his battles we've seen are against Wolverine, who he has a very...deep...history with. He would want Logan to know he is being attacked and beaten by Silver Samurai, it's a psychological thing. This is different since he has never met Power Princess so he carries no "emotional baggage" with him.

But, from what I've read, Silver Samurai, while not an idiot, does carry "emotional baggage" that is brought about from the environment in which he was raised. He's simply not able to emotionally let go of his sense of honor.

A cave in wouldn't work, unless she was plannign on caving in the entire subterranea (which she coudln't do). Remember he can just teleport to a different area. He could even stay in the same cavern and teleport around since they are so big that she couldn't even cave-in one of the caverns. She would also have to worry about caving herself in too.

But, he has to know where he's going and twist his ring. And, she doesn't have to cave in the entire area, she just has to make sure part of the ceiling will fall on him. (Plus, if we subscribe to your beliefs that the caverns are so dark, he wouldn't be able to really see where he's teleporting to, and it would be too dangerous to teleport very far. Thus, that part of his powers is severly hindered.)



Winner = Power Princess

 

[kytrigger]

But, from what I've read, Silver Samurai, while not an idiot, does carry "emotional baggage" that is brought about from the environment in which he was raised. He's simply not able to emotionally let go of his sense of honor.

Well, he has done things that have crossed the line of what we (or at least I) would think of honor. Like the time he watched Logan be attacked by others, and then when Logan was down, attacked him. It's obvious that while Silver Samurai does indeed hold his ohonor in high regard, it is somewhat skewed.

But, he has to know where he's going and twist his ring. And, she doesn't have to cave in the entire area, she just has to make sure part of the ceiling will fall on him. (Plus, if we subscribe to your beliefs that the caverns are so dark, he wouldn't be able to really see where he's teleporting to, and it would be too dangerous to teleport very far. Thus, that part of his powers is severly hindered.)

He doesn't have to teleport far. These caverns are huge and he knows that. He could teleport to a place he has already been in the caverns, or worst case scenario, I think he would teleport to somewhere he doesn't know too well and take his chances as opposed to not teleporting and being certainly crushed. Also, he wouldn't always have to teleport. I didn't mean to make it sound like he would. In most csaes if it was just a rock or boulder, he would most likely just dodge it regularly. He would only teleport if he had no other way of escaping the rocks.

 

[Iceman]

Actually I think the only way he could get info is through is Defender's clearence not X-Man or his resources because Metarchus is a mystic being.

Rebuttal

True but just because he goes in thinking that doesn't mean he won't change his strategy to fit the circumstances.


Meta isn't stupid after he gets hit with one of theose vials he'll turn into something with a hard exterior shell and then try to dig into the tunnels to limit Warren's flying. Now Warren won't be stupid enough to follow but if Meta can positon himself above Warren he can bust through the dirt turn into a golem and just land on him and if he should dodge Meta can turn into a Colossus so he has a good armor shell; against tghe blood and then just rip out Warren's throat.

Winner=Metachus

All Worthington really needs to find out is the nature of creature that Metarchus is to know that his blood will be lethal to him/it. Knowledge of Metarchus' abilities is not vital as the creature admittedly outclasses him in most ways very easily.

Archangel knows he has only one possible way of winning this so when he hits the unsuspecting Metarchus with a vial of his blood, there is no way he is stopping to let the thing recover/escape. He will unload every last drop he is carrying (hopefully this includes at least a bazooka full ) until Metarchus goes down.

I agree with you that if Archangel gives Metarchus an opening that this is a one way trip to Hell for him and the tactics you've described above (among others) would work.

WINNER = ARCHANGEL

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

 

[Harlekin]

Gravitron
Power Princess - Great debate though.
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Gravitron

*Power Princess

*Metarchus

*Savage Hulk - (Bad luck of the draw. By bringing out his repressed memories, you only make Hulk stronger and more angry. Of course, Hulk wouldn't have battle armor, as that hasn't happened yet.)

 

[kytrigger]

Gravitron
Silver Samurai
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

 

[hippy fascist]

Gravitron
Power Princess
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

 

[hippy fascist]

Results so far:

Gravitron currently beating Zaran 4-0
Power Princess currently beating Silver samurai 3-1
Metarchus currently beating Archangel 4-0
Savage Hulk currently beating La Lunatica 4-0

Is it ok to do this? Just figured I'd help out

 

[Phaedrus45]

Yep, that's fine. Just take the highlights off the current leader's name. While votes are coming in, I don't want one name to stand out more than another. And, make sure you have a decent amount of votes, at least 3 or 4, come in before updating again.