Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

[Hellstormer]

Edit

 

[Hellstormer]

Match 18:

Madison Jeffries - Weapon X (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio



vs.

Delilah (HELLSTORMER) bio

This'll be an interesting match, Delilah has a ridiculous amount of strength, the ability to crush a tank and Jeffries has an abundance of materials on this world to use for weapons, vehicles, devices. So Delilah's chance is to hit him hard and fast and destroy anything he makes quickly.

 

[Hellstormer]

BRACKET 2,

Match 17:

Spider-Man 2099 (HELLSTORMER) bio



vs.

Frankie Raye (PHAEDRUS45) bio

....damn.

Ok this is gonna be hard but Spidey can do it. The first thing he'll wanna do is cool her off by finding some kind of cater source and spraying her with it or getting her into it. After she's cooled down the only problem he'll face is her flight and her control over....cosmic energy. Now once she's vunerable he'll try to web her down to keep her form flying away, I take it her strength level is normal because it doesn't say anything about superstrength. Once she's tied down he'll bite her and inject his halucagen toxin that might knock her out, if it doesn't he'll resort to using his talons that can cut through admantium. For thi to work and he be able to be hurt these events will need to happen quickly and rapidly but I believe he can do it.

 

[Phaedrus45]

edit ... wrong character being debated. Rebuttals to come later after Hellstormer and I can get up appropriate debates.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:

Ok this is gonna be hard but Spidey can do it. The first thing he'll wanna do is cool her off by finding some kind of cater source and spraying her with it or getting her into it.

First, looking for something like a "cater source" would be trying to find a needle in a haystack. Nobody but certain individuals previously involved know about the first Secret Wars, as it's been stated in many comics. Miguel and Nova II both wouldn't have any knowledge of the environment. Second, it would have to be a really, really big spray to reach her so far up in the air. Third, what the hell's a "cater source" anyway??? I looked up the words on the internet, and just got stuff about catering parties.

After she's cooled down the only problem he'll face is her flight and her control over....cosmic energy. Now once she's vunerable he'll try to web her down to keep her form flying away, I take it her strength level is normal because it doesn't say anything about superstrength.

Normal??!!?? She's a herald of galactus! Of course she's got superstrength. Also, in another biography as I've previously shown, it says she's got "superhuman strength and durability, other powers greatly enhanced." Seriously, can you see Galactus giving his herald normal powers? In fact, if you look at Nova II, she seems to have the same shiny exterior as Silver Surfer, just gold in color.

Once she's tied down he'll bite her and inject his halucagen toxin that might knock her out, if it doesn't he'll resort to using his talons that can cut through admantium. For thi to work and he be able to be hurt these events will need to happen quickly and rapidly but I believe he can do it.

Simply put, it's not going to happen. I'm not sure what you're talking about in the first part of your argument, but it clearly shows the second part of your argument has a big inaccuracy in her durability and superstrength. Plus, as noted, neither character won't know a thing about the environment, and thus finding certain artifacts would be very nearly impossible. (I'd say impossible, but I guess he might have a one in a million chance.)

Winner = Frankie Raye (Nova II)

 

[Hellstormer]

Edit

 

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal

Rebuttal:



First, looking for something like a "cater source" would be trying to find a needle in a haystack. Nobody but certain individuals previously involved know about the first Secret Wars, as it's been stated in many comics. Miguel and Nova II both wouldn't have any knowledge of the environment. Second, it would have to be a really, really big spray to reach her so far up in the air. Third, what the hell's a "cater source" anyway??? I looked up the words on the internet, and just got stuff about catering parties.)

Don't be a smartass you know I meant water . And even if he doesn't know where one is exactly he could look.

Normal??!!?? She's a herald of galactus! Of course she's got superstrength. Also, in another biography as I've previously shown, it says she's got "superhuman strength and durability, other powers greatly enhanced." Seriously, can you see Galactus giving his herald normal powers? In fact, if you look at Nova II, she seems to have the same shiny exterior as Silver Surfer, just gold in color.

Well Spidey isn't weak either, I don't tihnk he would be quite on the same level but he's up there, and his webbing is stronger then he is so I wouldn't roll it out as no being able to hold her.

Simply put, it's not going to happen. I'm not sure what you're talking about in the first part of your argument, but it clearly shows the second part of your argument has a big inaccuracy in her durability and superstrength. Plus, as noted, neither character won't know a thing about the environment, and thus finding certain artifacts would be very nearly impossible. (I'd say impossible, but I guess he might have a one in a million chance.)

Hod do you know they won't get plopped right in the middle of downtown Denver? I'm sure Spidey could find a water source if he needed one because well water's universal so every planet has to have some if it's inhabittable.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Don't be a smartass you know I meant water . And even if he doesn't know where one is exactly he could look.

Oh. Seriously, I didn't know what you meant. I thought it was some special scientific thing. OK, water would be a little easier to find, but as her powers are enhanced by Cosmic Powers, I would believe water doesn't effect her fire abilities much.

Well Spidey isn't weak either, I don't tihnk he would be quite on the same level but he's up there, and his webbing is stronger then he is so I wouldn't roll it out as no being able to hold her.

Yes, this Spider-Man is an excellent character; it's just another bad luck of the draw. Since Nova II can lift 40 tons, I don't think Miguel's webbing will have much effect on her. She'd easily be able to break it. Plus, as stated, I think her powers would easily make the webbing burn away.

Hod do you know they won't get plopped right in the middle of downtown Denver? I'm sure Spidey could find a water source if he needed one because well water's universal so every planet has to have some if it's inhabittable.

Again, I thought you really were talking about some device I was just too stupid to realize knowing. Yes, water might be easy to find; although, I might look through my Secret War comics and see if they ever fought around water. But, again, I don't think Galactus would make a herald who could be easily beaten by pouring regular water on. These are cosmic powers, and I highly doubt it would have any effect on her.

Really, your "cater source" had me thinking there was something that would douse her fire...I am just not at all worried about simple water.

 

[Hellstormer]

Oh. Seriously, I didn't know what you meant. I thought it was some special scientific thing. OK, water would be a little easier to find, but as her powers are enhanced by Cosmic Powers, I would believe water doesn't effect her fire abilities much.

Fine fine all is forgiven. So her fire is cosmic and I guess since she flies around in space it doesn't need oxygen so water wouldn't effect her, but no one ever said her fire doesn't hurt her, if it's used against her. If Miguel can find some kind of forest or something she might fly through it causing a cosmic forest fire which Migual can use as an advantage.

Yes, this Spider-Man is an excellent character; it's just another bad luck of the draw. Since Nova II can lift 40 tons, I don't think Miguel's webbing will have much effect on her. She'd easily be able to break it. Plus, as stated, I think her powers would easily make the webbing burn away.

His webbing is heat resistance, at least I think it is. And since he's suppose to be stronger then Spider-Man I would guess his rate is about class 15 (Spider-Man's class 10 I believe) meaning his webbing would probaly be in the 20-25 range. So if he can get anough of it on her it might get to the point where her only means of escape are blasting out with the comic energy, but not before Migual is able to stop her. Also according to wiki Spidey has enhanced healing, supersonic vision ( he can see things really fast), and telescopic vision that would aid him in finding a suitable enviroment to fight in.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Fine fine all is forgiven. So her fire is cosmic and I guess since she flies around in space it doesn't need oxygen so water wouldn't effect her, but no one ever said her fire doesn't hurt her, if it's used against her. If Miguel can find some kind of forest or something she might fly through it causing a cosmic forest fire which Migual can use as an advantage.

As other fire-powered superheroes aren't effected by fire, such as Human Torch, I think it would be safe to assume fire won't effect her. But, putting Miguel in a forest and saying it will catch fire will do far more damage to him than her. It would be hard for Nova II to fly above the tree line. Plus, I noticed Miguel might have a fear of water. He's had some water mishaps, and almost drowned, if not for being given CPR by Xina in Spider-Man 2099 #22.

His webbing is heat resistance, at least I think it is. And since he's suppose to be stronger then Spider-Man I would guess his rate is about class 15 (Spider-Man's class 10 I believe) meaning his webbing would probaly be in the 20-25 range.

Actually, the website I linked him to says he's "roughly class 10." Second, I would like to know how you come by this "20-25 range." It doesn't make sense to me. The only thing I found regarding his webbing is that it's organic. There isn't one mention of it being "heat resistant." Please give me anything that says otherwise. For me, if it's organic in nature, then it can be burned away.

So if he can get anough of it on her it might get to the point where her only means of escape are blasting out with the comic energy, but not before Migual is able to stop her. Also according to wiki Spidey has enhanced healing, supersonic vision ( he can see things really fast), and telescopic vision that would aid him in finding a suitable enviroment to fight in.

Just to clarify, he's got superhuman vision, not supersonic.

It's evident to me that Miguel is simply over-powered here. He cannot harm Nova II, as her durability, strength and powers are simply much more than Spider-Man 2099 would be able to handle. His webbing is organic, thus it should be able to be effected by Nova II's flames, her body wouldn't be penetrable by Miguel's teeth or talons, as it's physically the same as Silver Surfer's, and he wouldn't be able to get near her, as she has the ability to stay high in the air without him being able to touch her.

Winner = Frankie Raye (Nova II)

 

[Phaedrus45]

damn hype lag....edit

 

[Hellstormer]

As other fire-powered superheroes aren't effected by fire, such as Human Torch, I think it would be safe to assume fire won't effect her. But, putting Miguel in a forest and saying it will catch fire will do far more damage to him than her. It would be hard for Nova II to fly above the tree line. Plus, I noticed Miguel might have a fear of water. He's had some water mishaps, and almost drowned, if not for being given CPR by Xina in Spider-Man 2099 #22.

Never collected the series and I'm pretty much learning about this character from the wiki and the few appearences I have of him. There's really nothing I can fiigure out for him as an offensive way of confronting her, that fire is a major problem for him but if he'd manage a way through that he might be able to dodge any kind of cosmic blast and eventually nullify her. It's unlikely but that is like the Ezekial/Magnus fight, only I'm on the other side.

Actually, the website I linked him to says he's "roughly class 10." Second, I would like to know how you come by this "20-25 range." It doesn't make sense to me. The only thing I found regarding his webbing is that it's organic. There isn't one mention of it being "heat resistant." Please give me anything that says otherwise. For me, if it's organic in nature, then it can be burned away.

The 20-25 range is what I consider the strength of his webbing and since you said his strength is only roughly class 10 I think his webbing would be call 15-20. The reason I believe it's stronger then him is because a) he's able to swing from it and b) he's able to pull foes with it and in neither cases does it tear. I have an issue somewhere of 2099 World of Tomorrow where he makes a shield of webbing that he uses to shield him from a fire so I assumed it's either resistant or at least ******ent.

Just to clarify, he's got superhuman vision, not supersonic.

I read the wiki and thay called it supersonic because he can see things going faster then sound. I don't know that's just what they called it.

It's evident to me that Miguel is simply over-powered here. He cannot harm Nova II, as her durability, strength and powers are simply much more than Spider-Man 2099 would be able to handle. His webbing is organic, thus it should be able to be effected by Nova II's flames, her body wouldn't be penetrable by Miguel's teeth or talons, as it's physically the same as Silver Surfer's, and he wouldn't be able to get near her, as she has the ability to stay high in the air without him being able to touch her.

...I don't like you, I think you fixed the matches so I was the ultimate underdog for every match

 

[Phaedrus45]

Never collected the series and I'm pretty much learning about this character from the wiki and the few appearences I have of him. There's really nothing I can fiigure out for him as an offensive way of confronting her, that fire is a major problem for him but if he'd manage a way through that he might be able to dodge any kind of cosmic blast and eventually nullify her. It's unlikely but that is like the Ezekial/Magnus fight, only I'm on the other side.

The 20-25 range is what I consider the strength of his webbing and since you said his strength is only roughly class 10 I think his webbing would be call 15-20. The reason I believe it's stronger then him is because a) he's able to swing from it and b) he's able to pull foes with it and in neither cases does it tear. I have an issue somewhere of 2099 World of Tomorrow where he makes a shield of webbing that he uses to shield him from a fire so I assumed it's either resistant or at least ******ent.

Ok, I finally arrived home, and I can access the "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #9." This is reasons why Nova II would be able to not be effected by Spider-Man 2099's webbing and other facts:

*"Nova possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles. The maximum amount of heat she can produce appears to be 900,000 degrees Fahrenheit....With a minor manifestation of her stellar powers, she can burn through any Earthly substance (with the exception of Adamantium.)....Nova can control the path of her cosmic fire to such an extent that she can project a sustained ring of flame at a fixed distance around any object."

*"As a consequence of her cosmic form and metabolism, Nova is far stronger and more durable than an ordinary human being. Although she still possesses a physical body, she is virtually impervious to most forms of physical harm. Her body automatically incinerates any projectile that comes within her fiery corona."

So, this shows that 1) Nova II would be able to burn through Miguel's webbing quite easily, and 2) Miguel wouldn't be able to harm Nova II with either his webbing, talons, or teeth. To put it in plain terms, Spider-Man 2099 got royally screwed with this match-up.

I read the wiki and thay called it supersonic because he can see things going faster then sound. I don't know that's just what they called it.

Wiki says, "Compensating for his lack of a "Spider-Sense", his hearing exceeds the acuity of a normal human, as does his vision - he can see extremely well over both long distances ("telescopic" vision) and in low-light conditions. In addition to the generally enhanced properties of his vision, the flicker-fusion rate of his retinas is reduced to such an extent that he can easily perceive fast-moving objects that would appear to others as a blur." I didn't see the word supersonic; but, yes, he does have very good vision. It's too bad, he'll be able to see his ass-kicking coming.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Wasn't Breakdown suppose to be the Freakshow leader from X-Men 2099 with the discintigrating touch?

 

[Phaedrus45]

Wasn't Breakdown suppose to be the Freakshow leader from X-Men 2099 with the discintigrating touch?

Yep, that seems to be the case. That person never popped up for me, and here is the one bio I've found.

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-1285.html

I'll adjust stuff right now, and Hellstormer and I can redo our debates...although, I can see mine won't be too much different in strategy.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, I found a crappy biography on Breakdown, but have to research the character more before I debate against him. Luckily, there was a picture I found, but to see what he looks like, I had to use the large-size picture. You can't miss it.

 

[Phaedrus45]

OK, I've researched the 4 appearances by Breakdown, and I've posted my opening argument again. I actually find the first Breakdown a better character than this one.

 

[Hellstormer]

Ok, I finally arrived home, and I can access the "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #9." This is reasons why Nova II would be able to not be effected by Spider-Man 2099's webbing and other facts:

*"Nova possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles. The maximum amount of heat she can produce appears to be 900,000 degrees Fahrenheit....With a minor manifestation of her stellar powers, she can burn through any Earthly substance (with the exception of Adamantium.)....Nova can control the path of her cosmic fire to such an extent that she can project a sustained ring of flame at a fixed distance around any object."

*"As a consequence of her cosmic form and metabolism, Nova is far stronger and more durable than an ordinary human being. Although she still possesses a physical body, she is virtually impervious to most forms of physical harm. Her body automatically incinerates any projectile that comes within her fiery corona."

So, this shows that 1) Nova II would be able to burn through Miguel's webbing quite easily, and 2) Miguel wouldn't be able to harm Nova II with either his webbing, talons, or teeth. To put it in plain terms, Spider-Man 2099 got royally screwed with this match-up.

His talons can cut through admantium.

Wiki says, "Compensating for his lack of a "Spider-Sense", his hearing exceeds the acuity of a normal human, as does his vision - he can see extremely well over both long distances ("telescopic" vision) and in low-light conditions. In addition to the generally enhanced properties of his vision, the flicker-fusion rate of his retinas is reduced to such an extent that he can easily perceive fast-moving objects that would appear to others as a blur." I didn't see the word supersonic; but, yes, he does have very good vision. It's too bad, he'll be able to see his ass-kicking coming.

Supersonic vision sounds cooler

Yea I'm pretty much rolling over and dying on this one.

 

[Hellstormer]

New Break Down Debate

I really like this character better, his ability to break things down to molecular level with a touch really helps in this case.

Let's face it neither would really have an knowledge of eachother. Now I don't actually know about Breakdown but I know about the freaks from the 2099 World of Tomorrow issues. They're a very stealthy bunch, similiar to the Morlocks. So this means he would work stealthily until she got control of him. In this fight her density increase really won't do anything, if she gets to close and he can even get a finger on her she's just gonna be metals scraps. And let's be honest if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed.

Winner=Breakdown

 

[Phaedrus45]

His talons can cut through admantium.

His talons cannot cut through admantium. They have only been known to cut through some metallic objects. I refer to his bio:

"Retractable talons in his fingertips and toes enable him to climb walls or cut enemies. Though they are rather short (approximately an inch long), they are extremely sharp, and seem strong enough to resist breakage despite his enhanced strength - Miguel has shown capable of rending metal armour on numerous occasions."

 

[Phaedrus45]

New Break Down Debate

I really like this character better, his ability to break things down to molecular level with a touch really helps in this case.

Let's face it neither would really have an knowledge of eachother. Now I don't actually know about Breakdown but I know about the freaks from the 2099 World of Tomorrow issues. They're a very stealthy bunch, similiar to the Morlocks. So this means he would work stealthily until she got control of him. In this fight her density increase really won't do anything, if she gets to close and he can even get a finger on her she's just gonna be metals scraps. And let's be honest if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed.

Winner=Breakdown

First, as I mentioned, his name pretty much gives his powers away. Plus, just looking at him shows this guy is screwed up in some way. (It's funny, the first Breakdown we debated really didn't fit her name very well. This one does.) Second, like I said, this guy loves to brag. He never sneaks around and goes for a surprise tactic. He walks right up to you, announces he's there, and then tries to intimidate his opponent by showing how his power works. It stands to reason he'd do this, also. Third, he won't get close enough to her before she takes him out with mind control.

One thing I noticed is that Breakdown isn't as great as he seems on paper, too. He engages in hand-to-hand combat, and doesn't always have his powers work. One opponent simply gave him an extreme electrical jolt when he touched his armor.

Finally, you say, "if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed." That would be completely stupid thing to do. The participants know they just have to take someone out of the battle, and the second she uses mind control, the battle would be declared over. She doesn't need to kill him. (And, he wouldn't have the will to use his powers. I've seen him touch people in the comics, and he has to use his will for his powers to work.)

Winner = Tana Nile

 

[Hellstormer]

It's hard fighting with a guy you've never even heard of.

First, as I mentioned, his name pretty much gives his powers away. Plus, just looking at him shows this guy is screwed up in some way. (It's funny, the first Breakdown we debated really didn't fit her name very well. This one does.) Second, like I said, this guy loves to brag. He never sneaks around and goes for a surprise tactic. He walks right up to you, announces he's there, and then tries to intimidate his opponent by showing how his power works. It stands to reason he'd do this, also. Third, he won't get close enough to her before she takes him out with mind control.

How do you take someone out with mind control, the worse she could do is make him hit himself or she hits him. There's no way of iincapacitating someone with mindcontrol.

One thing I noticed is that Breakdown isn't as great as he seems on paper, too. He engages in hand-to-hand combat, and doesn't always have his powers work. One opponent simply gave him an extreme electrical jolt when he touched his armor.

Well maybe since then he's gotten better control over his powers.

Finally, you say, "if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed." That would be completely stupid thing to do. The participants know they just have to take someone out of the battle, and the second she uses mind control, the battle would be declared over. She doesn't need to kill him. (And, he wouldn't have the will to use his powers. I've seen him touch people in the comics, and he has to use his will for his powers to work.)

Ok this is where my knowledge of the game is lacking. I was under the impression that a win is knockout or incapacitating the opponent, not putting them under control via mindcontrol in which case a ton of battles should've gone in the complete opposite direction.

 

[Phaedrus45]

It's hard fighting with a guy you've never even heard of.
How do you take someone out with mind control, the worse she could do is make him hit himself or she hits him. There's no way of iincapacitating someone with mindcontrol.

Basically, all you have to do is take someone out of a fight. With mind control, you control the person, and thus they are unable to fight any longer. Heck, if Tana Nile had it in her, she could just kill him with her weapon at that point. But, that's regardless. (Plus, Tana is able to make him lose all bodily function. If he cannot stand or move, he cannot fight.)

Well maybe since then he's gotten better control over his powers.

You only get your character after their last appearance or where noted. He wouldn't be able to learn more control, because he would be taken right after X-Men 2099 #12.

Ok this is where my knowledge of the game is lacking. I was under the impression that a win is knockout or incapacitating the opponent, not putting them under control via mindcontrol in which case a ton of battles should've gone in the complete opposite direction.

No, this has always been the rule. If you incapacitate someone, beat them, or take them out of a fight, it's considered a win. It's just some characters with mind control have the bad luck of the draw and get an opponent who is able to battle this method of defeat. Breakdown doesn't have this benefit.

 

[Midnight Ice]

Match 18:

Madison Jeffries - Weapon X (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio



vs.

Delilah (HELLSTORMER) bio



I agree, this is an interesting match. This world will have a vast variety of materials for Jeffries to create any type of robot, weapon, or anything else he can come up with his imagination. Sure Delilah is strong, but with all the materials available to him, Jeffries could easily create something beyond Delilah's strength range.

Winner: Madison Jeffries (Weapon X)

 

[Midnight Ice]

Match 18:

Northstar - Agent of Hydra (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio



vs.

Doorman (ZOKEN) bio



Another very interesting match. Sure Doorman may have a sense of when danger is near, but Northstar has shown to be fast enough to catch almost anybody off guard. Not only that, but the "Agent of Hydra" version of Northstar has no regard for anyone's life or the consequences of his actions. He is a ruthless killer and would not hesitate to tear Doorman in half while at top speed, before Doorman knew what was happening.

Winner: Northstar (Agent of Hydra)