Contest of Marvels II Thread 2

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal

Moses Magnum, such a cool name. Like it brings up thoughts of CHuck Heston as Moses holding the Commandments with a magnum in one hand and being like all "Gte the **** away from the Golden calf *****es or youre going to get a cap in your ass. Anyway, Man-Beast is a sucky name, nowhere near as cool.

Moses wins the cool name contest, now onto the battle

Breakdown:

Moses Magnum has superhuman strenght that has avired from enhanced human to class 100. His durability has as well varied, his greatest power is the ability to generate earthquakes and vibratory forces ( a hit with the ladies)

His powers do seem all over the place but I do not think they are beyond Thor's and Thor was unable to penetrate Man Beast's force field.

And wears golves that release a sleep gas and fire force blasts.

Man-Beast- Superhuman strength, agility and durability
mind control
energy projection
heightened senses
scientific genius


Location will factor into this fight somewhat as Battleworld will provide some nice terrain to bury Man-Beast under when Moses gets ready to shake-up the world. Man-beats (crappy name) is a formidable foe but he doesn't have the power of Chuck heston backing him up. Either way, Man-Beast could win this fight, but he won't because Moses will work fast to take him out. Man-Beast will attack him and be hit with a Moses force blast, which he will recover quickly from and attack again with some blasts and such and maybe hold up a force field, maybe we should call him Man-*****. Anyway, Moses will go for some of that knockout gas and have Man-Beast reeling a bit with his ehightened senses and all. Moses will be beaten and bloodied and Man-***** will think he has the upperhand until hes driven into a nice valley where Mose drops the walls of Jericho on his ass and he crumbles underneath the onslaught.

Moses Magnum wins.

Now that was an interesting startegy but one thing you did not factor in is Man Beast's teleporting abilities. He is cunning and can teleport in and blast Moses and then teleport out. Doing this at random.

Lets not forget that Moses is vuilnerable to his own earthquakes given he died by being pushed into a crack he created.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Beta Ray Bill Vs Count Nefaria

Nice picture but it will not help you here

Ok, this is goingto be a hell of a match, the kind of thing that goes on for days. However, count nefaria really won't be able to last that long. Bill is not an ionic being and there are none around to feed nefaria's powers meaning that nefaria will be against the clock.

Count Nefaria can go on long enough to defeat beta ray Bill. There is no time limit given he is at full power when this match commences in so far this match will not last long enough to cause his energy levels to deplete.

He will no doubt increase the strength of his attacks in order to fight on bill's level but bill is more than capable of handling himself. In the storm breaker mini i believe he took out two of galactus's heralds single handedly.

I have to check that and get back to you but I am not sure that is exactly how it went down.

If he can stand up to the power cosmic, he can stand up to anything nefaria can throw at him.

First of all, just because somebody likes apples does not mean they will like oranges. And it all is a question to what degree he withstood the power cosmic. Nefaria is up there in the power department. He is phenomenally strong (stronger then BRB), can fly at incredible speeds, is invulnerable, and can shoot laser beams out of his eyes.

He will be getting weaker as the fight goes on meaning that bill simply has to fight defensively to begin with using stormbreaker to cast shields in between assualts from lightning bolts to wear down nefaria's powers even further.

You say this as if Nefaria loses his powers at an accelrated rate. His powers do not wane and he does not get weaker. It took all of the Avengers to stop Nefaria and yet you state that BRB will do it by himself?!?

Of course to finish bill will give him a nice old smack with Stormbreaker, or if he's feeling particularly creative, he'll drop a portal under nefaria to banish him to another realm. Either way, bill has this one in the bag.

This is when BRB wakes up to find he had been defeated by Nefaria

WINNER: NEFARIA[/QUOTE]

 

[Ahura Mazda]

And as with most characters who try to max out their powers, he will quickly burn out. Bill is more than powerfull enough to hold out against nefaria long enough for him to start losing his power. Nefaria is extremely limited at range so Bill will simply stay well away from nefaria till his powers start to fade.

He is not that limited, given his lasers can burn a hole through BRB. And I do not think BRB is powerful enough to stand months of punishment which is what it would take.

I agree it's very relevant, since bill is slightly stronger than thor this should give us an accurate comparrison

Thor was holding back and when he did not, in the Bloodlust series, BRB required Silver Surfer to save him.

By keeping at a distance Bill can simply block Nefaria's eye blasts and bombard him with lightning strikes until he starts to burn out. In order to survive bill's blasts, nefaria will have to be working at optimal capacity meaning his hunger for ionic energy will consume him much quicker.

Excuse me but Nefaria is faster then BRB and he will notcontinuously block each one while Nefaria is pursuing him. Nefaria will reach BRB and this will turn into a brawl.

Also bill can take this fight anywhere he wants since he can fly, shift it out to the desert or an open plain and Nefaria will have no defence against portals meaning it could be an even easier match

His creation of portals requires the spinning of his hammer (Stormbreaker) and is not instantaneous. If he started to try and create a portal he would become immediately very vulnerable to Nefaria's attacks. And he would be down.

What you fail to mention is that over the course of those two days he will become significantly weaker with each passing hour. This fight could go for days as your example clearly demonstrated that he coudln't beat thor, just fight him to a standstill.

My example had him fighting all the Avengers to a standstill not just Thor. Lets not forget that. And your assumption that he gets significantly weaker by the hour is an exageration like the ones I expect to hear in the street markets of Marrakesh.

Nefaria does not get significantly weaker by the hour. The only time he got hurt was through a technological device that caused Ion energy to seep out of Nefaria. This device is not available to you.

Bill has beaten thor TWICE. All nefaria did in this fight was prove he could hold his own against thor but not actually beat him, he then killed the only man who could have saved him from this curse and ran away. Not exactly the kind of thing that wins epic battles such as this, nefaria is going down, or at the very least will run away to preserve his own life through absorption of ionic beings.

that curse was a lie and again he was not just figting Thor but all the avengers. Lets not forget that!!!

Meaning he can defend himself well as he slowly rots from the inside out. Bill and nefaria will be evenly matched to begin with but as the fight goes on that gap will widen significantly.

I disagree in so far that actually this match will be Nefaria being more powerful then BRB. And if the fight went on for months I might have agreed with you but it will not.

Which would explain why he beat Thor TWICE, Bill is stronger than Thor and has actually managed to beat him, Bill will take this fight to the desert to further enhance his alien biology giving him even more power (heat supercharges bill). Bill has beaten thor, nefaria hasn't. Game over.

each of those victories are often explainned by Thor holding back. the only one where he did not (Bloodlust), he creamed BRB. And Nefaria willl take this fight to the caves.

Doubtfull since bill will be flying round out of nefaria's reach blocking any ranged attack he can throw at him. Nefaria is nothing like superman, he's more like nate grey in that he can bell uberpowerfull for a short while but ultimately this power will kill him. Bill is simply uber all the time. Bill will take this, but I will admit it will take a whiel to wear the count down.

He is allot like Superman and he does not wear down as fast as you claim he does. Nefaria would retain his powers long enough to readily hand BRB his scalp. He can fight at the utmost level for more then a week. Of course, you can try and prove me wrong.....

Bill is a warrior worthy of mjolnir (a very elite club). He fights cosmic characters on a daily basis, has taken part in intergalactic wars. Nefaria is simply out of his league here. Bill will take him to pieces no matter how long it takes. At the end of the day, bill has fought thor twice and won both times, nefaria fought thor to a standstill then ran away to die. Nefaria will die today.

Nefaria is capable of fighting all the Avengers. And for the record Billl has fought thor more then 3 times and he has lost to him as well. Nefaria ran away because he beleived a lie, whereas he was immortal.

BRB could not take on all the Avengers. I agree he is brave and worthy but he does not have the power to handle Count Nefaria on his own.

WINNER: COUNT NEFARIA

 

[hippy fascist]

As much as I hate to say it... I'm going to have to try and prove this wrong (but in all our minds, we're going to pretend I'm not).

Heh, that said. Keep in mind, I don't know much about Typhoid, save for what I read in bios. But something I wanted to ask about is this... can her love voodoo work on Females as it does males? Also, Lifeguard is half alien... can her love voodoo work on aliens? Has she been shown infecting females or aliens?

It has never been proven, nor disproven to work on aliens or females. She is a street level character only appearing in daredevil so the aliens are an unknown quantity. The comics have never shown her to use it on any females either so this is equally an unknown quantity. Ultimately, since this is going to be the deciding factor I would suggest we work on debating for and against this aspect.

Personally I think her slag powers work on anyone on account of the fact that it is not an illusion she casts and does not change her outward appearance. She simply makes people fall in love with her. Since this is entirely mental (having no hormonal or physical aspect) I would argue that she can certainly seduce a member of the opposite sex. This is even further aided by the fact that most women experiment, at least to some degree, in this area. Ask most girls under the age of thirty if they've kissed a mate on a night out and you will get a resounding (in some cases slightly reluctant...) YES. Women have more of a tendency to experiment sexually than men(at least when it comes to same sex pairings). Therefore I would conclude that sex/sexuality are irrelevant.

With regards the alien thing, how many times have we seen aliens pair up with humans in the marvel universe

Lilandra Neramani and Xavier
Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers
(though non-admissable due to time of publication) Korvus and Rachel Grey
Gamora and Nova
Hulkling and Wiccan (And that's a gay relationship making it twice as valid!)

It would appear that in the marvel universe love knows no race,colour, creed or even SPECIES! So I can't see how this would prove an issue. When she gets that feeling...'s gonna be sexual healing as the profit marvin once said (marvin sounds alien too! COOL! t

I know her powers will work, but ultimately that will be what decides this contest and in the end it's down to the voters!

On a final note I would ask voters what they would rather see...

This...

or THIS!!!!!!!!!

I'll let you decide

WINNER: TYPHOID MARY!

 

[Phaedrus45]

Two of my favorite quotes for Round 1 just happened in this thread this week.

WINNER: TYPHOID MARY!

and

Moses Magnum, such a cool name. Like it brings up thoughts of CHuck Heston as Moses holding the Commandments with a magnum in one hand and being like all "Gte the **** away from the Golden calf *****es or youre going to get a cap in your ass. Anyway, Man-Beast is a sucky name, nowhere near as cool.

 

[hippy fascist]

Nice picture but it will not help you here

Doesn't need to. But you're right, it does reflect the truly awesome Beta Ray rather well

Count Nefaria can go on long enough to defeat beta ray Bill. There is no time limit given he is at full power when this match commences in so far this match will not last long enough to cause his energy levels to deplete.

He was at maxed powers when he fought the avengers in that fight you mentioned, and most of the fight was just him vs thor.

to quote wiki

But the dying Sturdy returned and told Nefaria that his new powers were causing the count to age at incredible speed, so that Nefaria would be dead in two days. (Actually, Sturdy was lying, and Nefaria lived beyond the two day limit.)

The lie was about his death, not the speed at which he aged.

It is later revealed that the aging process is restorable and once he reaches as certain level of decrepitude (yaay! I made up a new word!) he simply stays that way till he can feed.

to quote the marvel database

Having returned from the dead transformed into an ionically powered entity like Wonder Man, Nefaria must feed on the energies of other ionic beings to sustain his own powers.

Bill could wear him down after a couple of hours of fighting, we have never seen him in a fight that lasted more than half an issue so this concept of months is ridiculous. As an honorary asgardian bill will have had fights like this in the past. He will easily be able to hold his own against the GRADUALLY WEAKENING Nefaria!

I have to check that and get back to you but I am not sure that is exactly how it went down.

from the marvel database project (ok he didn't run away but they took him alive and he was captured very easily)
By now, Nefaria was virtually destitute. He decided he would have himself given superhuman powers greater than those of virtually any other human being. Nefaria formed the second Lethal Legion, consisting of the Living Laser, the original, criminal Power Man, and the Whirlwind. Nefaria then had Profally Klaus Sturdy, former chief assistant to Baron Heinrich Zemo, increase these three criminals’ powers for roughly an hour, and sent them to battle their old enemies, the Avengers.
But Sturdy and his assistants had also analyzed the cellular and genetic structure of the three superhumanly powerful criminals, and used their findings to duplicate their powers in Count Nefaria, but magnified a hundredfold. Once empowered, Nefaria mortally wounded Sturdy so that he could never give. equal powers to someone else. Bu the dying Sturdy told Nefaria that his new powers were causing the count to age at incredible speed, so that Nefaria would be dead in two days. (Actually, Sturdy was lying, and Nefaria lived beyond the two day limit.) Sturdy said that only he himself could control the aging process, but now he could not because he himself would be dead. Crazed with fear and rage, Nefaria attempted to destroy New York City, but was stopped and captured by the Avengers.

Once again, while the death was untrue (since he is an immortal he just happens to stop aging at the grandpa stage) the ageing is accurate. A further quote from marvel.com's bio
Deteriorating into an aged invalid who needed a special life-support system, Nefaria escaped custody with the aid of the Ani-Men and his daughter, who by this time had become romantically involved with Tony Stark. When Iron Man (whom Whitney knew to be Stark) tried to take Nefaria back into custody, the Ani-Men and Whitney resisted, and Nefaria was accidentally crushed during the battle.

This change occurred mere hours after a one hour battle when he was at full strength. In the end he was taken alive despite being on a homicidal rampage. 4-5 hours with bill and he'll be crushed. Bill has experience of fights that last for days, Nefaria never goes more than an hour or so. He's not even in bill's league and the constant drain this will put on his lifeforce will see the battle gradually slip in bills favour.

First of all, just because somebody likes apples does not mean they will like oranges. And it all is a question to what degree he withstood the power cosmic. Nefaria is up there in the power department. He is phenomenally strong (stronger then BRB), can fly at incredible speeds, is invulnerable, and can shoot laser beams out of his eyes.

Power levels wise the power cosmic is a good comparison. While it is a higher power level than Nefaria's it is in the same ballpark and offers the user energy projectiles, increased strength,speed, endurance, etc... Just because the power source is different (and significantly stronger) doesn't mean it's not comparable.

And as for whether he's stronger than bill, not really. They are both class 100. Bill is stronger than thor therefore if nefaria could only fight thor to a standstill...Bill is stronger than nefaria.

You say this as if Nefaria loses his powers at an accelrated rate. His powers do not wane and he does not get weaker. It took all of the Avengers to stop Nefaria and yet you state that BRB will do it by himself?!?

Whether or not his powers wane is debatable but he does get physically weaker and lose his invulnerability by degree. I don't know about the lazer vision and flight but I do know he gets gradually weaker. Mere hours after the fight with the avengers he was on a freakin' breathing apparatus. The guy get's frail quickly after a fight of only an hour. Bill can take him one on one. It'll just take a while to wear him down.

This is when BRB wakes up to find he had been defeated by Nefaria

Hardly, bill can do this in seconds and he wouldn't even attempt it till nefaria was in a drained state

WINNER: BILL!

 

[hippy fascist]

He is not that limited, given his lasers can burn a hole through BRB. And I do not think BRB is powerful enough to stand months of punishment which is what it would take

See my previous argument in relation to the months it would take bill to beat him...:Rolleyes:

Thor was holding back and when he did not, in the Bloodlust series, BRB required Silver Surfer to save him.

Uhhhh...not how it went down...

Scans

As this scan shows it was a pure contest of strength to see who without any magic was stronger. Therefore bill is stronger. Thor was not holding back since this was basically for the right to weild mjolnir without which he would lose all his power and revert to donald blake. In a simple contest of stregnth bill won.

Withe regards thor's "defeat" of bill

congratulations thor! one lucky hit!

which is directly followed by bill whuping thor's ass all over the shop, himself holding back since he doesn't want to hurt his "brother.

In fact it is only by taking a cheap shot at bill while he is tryingto reason with thor that he manages to sway the fight and build up some momentum

Bill was holding back that day and he gave thor an opening out of compassion that he would never offer nefaria. Bill could've killed thor that day (and a lot quicker if he'd been attacking him with intent rather than simply to pacify) Your example here is paper thin. Bill owns thor 9 times out of 10

Excuse me but Nefaria is faster then BRB and he will notcontinuously block each one while Nefaria is pursuing him. Nefaria will reach BRB and this will turn into a brawl.

No doubt and by bringing things into close quarters means bill will really come into his own. Bill will be able to whale on count nefaria from close range and wear him down even quicker.

His creation of portals requires the spinning of his hammer (Stormbreaker) and is not instantaneous. If he started to try and create a portal he would become immediately very vulnerable to Nefaria's attacks. And he would be down.

True but as stated above it is seconds and he would only attempt it while nefaria is distracted or after a couple of hours had passed and nefaria was in a weakend state.

My example had him fighting all the Avengers to a standstill not just Thor. Lets not forget that. And your assumption that he gets significantly weaker by the hour is an exageration like the ones I expect to hear in the street markets of Marrakesh.

I'd need to see some scans,since this is your point and not mine it is your point to prove. I have seen various write ups that say he was essentially fighting thor for a while before being taken down by the vision. From what i can tell the rest of the avengers were busy stopping falling buildings and performing something akin to crowd control. This was a thor vs nefaria fight primarily so the point is shaky

Nefaria does not get significantly weaker by the hour. The only time he got hurt was through a technological device that caused Ion energy to seep out of Nefaria. This device is not available to you.

Not true, after the aforementioned fight he was weakened after only an hour of fighting to the point where a few hours later he was relying on life support. That's pretty damn rapid and I'm talking about 4-5 times that level of punishment. He will begin to weaken after about 1.5 hours and from then on it's only going to get worse.

that curse was a lie and again he was not just figting Thor but all the avengers. Lets not forget that!!!

Both debatable, but the ageing was definately not a lie. The death after two days yes, but not the rapid ageing.

I disagree in so far that actually this match will be Nefaria being more powerful then BRB. And if the fight went on for months I might have agreed with you but it will not.

Again with this months thing which is just the height of ridiculousness. It's hours not months and bill can certianly go that distance.

each of those victories are often explainned by Thor holding back. the only one where he did not (Bloodlust), he creamed BRB. And Nefaria willl take this fight to the caves.

Actually I've disproved your take on the second fight and now a quick scan from the first one

Check out the top left hand speech bubble, and I believe if I'm not mistaken this was long after the battle with nefaria. That's canon whether you agree with it or not. By thor's own estimate bill is the greatest non-asgardian combatant he has ever faced.

He is a lot like Superman and he does not wear down as fast as you claim he does. Nefaria would retain his powers long enough to readily hand BRB his scalp. He can fight at the utmost level for more then a week. Of course, you can try and prove me wrong.....

Except supes energy source is the sun's rays which are far more plentiful than ionic energy. Superman would be constantly being recharged whereas nefaria will not. To use a "word picture" this would be like facing superman during an eclipse that lasts as long as the fight.

Nefaria is capable of fighting all the Avengers. And for the record Billl has fought thor more then 3 times and he has lost to him as well. Nefaria ran away because he beleived a lie, whereas he was immortal.

His immortality is not directly proportionate to his powers, when his power is drained he will revert to a feeble old man but he will never die from old age. This does not mean he is unkillable since iron man killed him with a building.

BRB could not take on all the Avengers. I agree he is brave and worthy but he does not have the power to handle Count Nefaria on his own.

You talk as if he's taking them all on simultaneously as opposed to one at a time kung fu movie style, bill could do that with ease. He is easily Nefaria's Equal if not his better. Ultimately the deciding factor will be nefaria's dwindling youth/strength/durability, and it will result in an, admitedly hard earned, victory.

Oh and as a further point with regards bill's durability...

In the next panel galactus claps his hands together (this is after bill has been attacking galactus for several pages and fighting off a suped up clone of himself.) knocking both him and stardust out. Notice this is the strength of glactus whilst also putting all of his energy into blocking the full power of starlord. All it does is knock him out! Bill is a cosmic/asgardian level character whereas nefaria is primarily and iron man foe. The two are simply not in the same league and if bill can take a hit from both galactus and starlord simultaneously then he can certainly take whatever nefaria is dishing out.

WINNER: BETA RAY BILL!

 

[Ahura Mazda]

But the dying Sturdy returned and told Nefaria that his new powers were causing the count to age at incredible speed, so that Nefaria would be dead in two days. (Actually, Sturdy was lying, and Nefaria lived beyond the two day limit.)

The lie was about his death, not the speed at which he aged.

Ok let me then quote from wIKI:

It was revealed the power gain that was causing rapid aging (Which was only short-term.) was actually reshaping his body and turning Nefaria immortal[

So that argument goes out the door.

It is later revealed that the aging process is restorable and once he reaches as certain level of decrepitude (yaay! I made up a new word!) he simply stays that way till he can feed.

If you want to interpret things in your manner go ahead but to use it as an argument for your debate is reprehensible. You know full well he was not reaching a level of decreptitude. And the rapid aging actually would not have affected him in the end.

to quote the marvel database

Having returned from the dead transformed into an ionically powered entity like Wonder Man, Nefaria must feed on the energies of other ionic beings to sustain his own powers.

Yes he does but he does not need continuous feeding. If he is fully charged up he no longer needs the source for a certain period of time which to the best of my recollection is longer then a week. I dop not imagine this battle lasting that long.

Bill could wear him down after a couple of hours of fighting, we have never seen him in a fight that lasted more than half an issue so this concept of months is ridiculous. As an honorary asgardian bill will have had fights like this in the past. He will easily be able to hold his own against the GRADUALLY WEAKENING Nefaria!

BRB is not that powerful. He is a powerful being but he is not the most powerful being that could withstand the onslaught from Count nefaria for so long.

from the marvel database project (ok he didn't run away but they took him alive and he was captured very easily)
By now, Nefaria was virtually destitute. He decided he would have himself given superhuman powers greater than those of virtually any other human being. Nefaria formed the second Lethal Legion, consisting of the Living Laser, the original, criminal Power Man, and the Whirlwind. Nefaria then had Profally Klaus Sturdy, former chief assistant to Baron Heinrich Zemo, increase these three criminals’ powers for roughly an hour, and sent them to battle their old enemies, the Avengers.
But Sturdy and his assistants had also analyzed the cellular and genetic structure of the three superhumanly powerful criminals, and used their findings to duplicate their powers in Count Nefaria, but magnified a hundredfold. Once empowered, Nefaria mortally wounded Sturdy so that he could never give. equal powers to someone else. Bu the dying Sturdy told Nefaria that his new powers were causing the count to age at incredible speed, so that Nefaria would be dead in two days. (Actually, Sturdy was lying, and Nefaria lived beyond the two day limit.) Sturdy said that only he himself could control the aging process, but now he could not because he himself would be dead. Crazed with fear and rage, Nefaria attempted to destroy New York City, but was stopped and captured by the Avengers.

Once again, while the death was untrue (since he is an immortal he just happens to stop aging at the grandpa stage) the ageing is accurate. A further quote from marvel.com's bio
Deteriorating into an aged invalid who needed a special life-support system, Nefaria escaped custody with the aid of the Ani-Men and his daughter, who by this time had become romantically involved with Tony Stark. When Iron Man (whom Whitney knew to be Stark) tried to take Nefaria back into custody, the Ani-Men and Whitney resisted, and Nefaria was accidentally crushed during the battle.

Ok and so what......This Nefaria is not the same Nefarioa you are referring to....remember he died and came back as an ionic being.

This change occurred mere hours after a one hour battle when he was at full strength. In the end he was taken alive despite being on a homicidal rampage. 4-5 hours with bill and he'll be crushed. Bill has experience of fights that last for days, Nefaria never goes more than an hour or so. He's not even in bill's league and the constant drain this will put on his lifeforce will see the battle gradually slip in bills favour.

Ok then I guess if I read this right bRB is more powerful then all the Avenger's put together including Thor......You don't think you are exagerating at all.

Power levels wise the power cosmic is a good comparison. While it is a higher power level than Nefaria's it is in the same ballpark and offers the user energy projectiles, increased strength,speed, endurance, etc... Just because the power source is different (and significantly stronger) doesn't mean it's not comparable.

If you actually referred to what I said you would have noted that I was referring to the degree of power and not the power itself. And it is not a higher power level but a more complete one.

And as for whether he's stronger than bill, not really. They are both class 100. Bill is stronger than thor therefore if nefaria could only fight thor to a standstill...Bill is stronger than nefaria.

Nefaria was stronger then Thor and class 100 means nothing in this case because the Magog is also class 100 and neither Nefaria nor BRB are in that league. Nefaria is stronger and more durable.

Whether or not his powers wane is debatable but he does get physically weaker and lose his invulnerability by degree. I don't know about the lazer vision and flight but I do know he gets gradually weaker. Mere hours after the fight with the avengers he was on a freakin' breathing apparatus. The guy get's frail quickly after a fight of only an hour. Bill can take him one on one. It'll just take a while to wear him down.

This was before he came back from death. he is an ionic being and as such will not tire.

Hardly, bill can do this in seconds and he wouldn't even attempt it till nefaria was in a drained state

Seconds is a long time to people who can move in the fraction of seconds.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

First of all nice scans but if you want to show scans show the rest of it and not just the one part that suits your needs.

See my previous argument in relation to the months it would take bill to beat him...:Rolleyes:

Uhhhh...not how it went down...

Scans

As this scan shows it was a pure contest of strength to see who without any magic was stronger. Therefore bill is stronger. Thor was not holding back since this was basically for the right to weild mjolnir without which he would lose all his power and revert to donald blake. In a simple contest of stregnth bill won.

And yet Thor was not put to death and he retainned Mjollnir...how could that be

With regards thor's "defeat" of bill

congratulations thor! one lucky hit!

which is directly followed by bill whuping thor's ass all over the shop, himself holding back since he doesn't want to hurt his "brother.

In fact it is only by taking a cheap shot at bill while he is tryingto reason with thor that he manages to sway the fight and build up some momentum

Bill was holding back that day and he gave thor an opening out of compassion that he would never offer nefaria. Bill could've killed thor that day (and a lot quicker if he'd been attacking him with intent rather than simply to pacify) Your example here is paper thin. Bill owns thor 9 times out of 10

What I love is how your scans are such picture perfect to suit your needs. First of all, Thor was mad and you left out the scans which show the visions of the female in his head, and he was distracted by her when BRB knocked him down. He then fought his way back and laid waste to BRB who was then saved by the Silver Surfer's surfboard who transported BRB to Sif.

If you want to put scans show the whole story.

No doubt and by bringing things into close quarters means bill will really come into his own. Bill will be able to whale on count nefaria from close range and wear him down even quicker.

And of yourse Nefaria whaling on Bill worries you not

True but as stated above it is seconds and he would only attempt it while nefaria is distracted or after a couple of hours had passed and nefaria was in a weakend state.

I'd need to see some scans,since this is your point and not mine it is your point to prove. I have seen various write ups that say he was essentially fighting thor for a while before being taken down by the vision. From what i can tell the rest of the avengers were busy stopping falling buildings and performing something akin to crowd control. This was a thor vs nefaria fight primarily so the point is shaky

I cannot produce scans because hey, I have no scanner You have the comic it seems so why not post them as you seem to feel that it would prove your point. Nefaria was under attack by Thor, Vision, and Scarlet Witch's hex bolts among other things.

Not true, after the aforementioned fight he was weakened after only an hour of fighting to the point where a few hours later he was relying on life support. That's pretty damn rapid and I'm talking about 4-5 times that level of punishment. He will begin to weaken after about 1.5 hours and from then on it's only going to get worse.

Both debatable, but the ageing was definately not a lie. The death after two days yes, but not the rapid ageing.

The ageing was going to make him immortal and in case this point is moot as he died in that incarnation and came back as an Ionic vampire of sorts.

Again with this months thing which is just the height of ridiculousness. It's hours not months and bill can certianly go that distance.

I will admit that months was exagerating and I apologise but he will last long enough to do battle and demolish BRB.

Actually I've disproved your take on the second fight and now a quick scan from the first one

Check out the top left hand speech bubble, and I believe if I'm not mistaken this was long after the battle with nefaria. That's canon whether you agree with it or not. By thor's own estimate bill is the greatest non-asgardian combatant he has ever faced.

And I am guessing that the writer forgot who was Nefaria when he wrote that. And it being in canon in one book does not make it less debatable regarding others. But I will assume it is.

I often state things like that is the best thing I have ever ate. Let me just say for that period of time it may be true but I doubt in reality every time I said it, it meant I ate the best thing I have had in my life. And that kind of statements in comic books is pretty meaningless because Thor also faced Galactus and he was more powerful. So was the Destroyer.

Except supes energy source is the sun's rays which are far more plentiful than ionic energy. Superman would be constantly being recharged whereas nefaria will not. To use a "word picture" this would be like facing superman during an eclipse that lasts as long as the fight.

I will go with that and as you know Supes would last a very long time before he would feel weakenned.

You talk as if he's taking them all on simultaneously as opposed to one at a time kung fu movie style, bill could do that with ease. He is easily Nefaria's Equal if not his better. Ultimately the deciding factor will be nefaria's dwindling youth/strength/durability, and it will result in an, admitedly hard earned, victory.

Actually, he did take on at least 2 at the same time as Vision attacked him at the same time he was battling Thor.

Oh and as a further point with regards bill's durability...

In the next panel galactus claps his hands together (this is after bill has been attacking galactus for several pages and fighting off a suped up clone of himself.) knocking both him and stardust out. Notice this is the strength of glactus whilst also putting all of his energy into blocking the full power of starlord. All it does is knock him out! Bill is a cosmic/asgardian level character whereas nefaria is primarily and iron man foe. The two are simply not in the same league and if bill can take a hit from both galactus and starlord simultaneously then he can certainly take whatever nefaria is dishing out.

I know BRB is powerful but he is not as powerfulé as all the Avengers and that is what it took to take out Nefaria. You disregard this everywhere.

In any case, to summarise....

1. Nefaria is limited in time
a. the period is long enough that it would have no bearing on this battle
b. long enough that he gets weakenned to a degree that gives BRB an advantage
c. He loses his powers so quickly that BRB wins without breaking a sweat

2. If a or b:
i. he has more power then BRB and defeats him
ii. He is eveny matched with BRB and BRB equals the Avengers
iii. BRB is more powerful then the Avengers and wins anyway

I cannot debate anymore so I have summarised above and people can mak thier decisions.

Edit: I have to take out some of your posts Hippy because of image issues

 

[hippy fascist]

Ok ,so ahura can't debate any longer so I'm not going to do a rebuttal of his last post but just do a quick summary to end my side fo the debate.


1.
Nefaria has NEVER been in a battle that lasted more than an hour or so

Bill Has fought in cosmic wars for days at a time without stopping. Bill is used to the long game, and he's used to winning

2.
Nefaria was DEFEATED by the avengers,

Bill was recently defeated by GALACTUS AND STARDUST. He fought them for about the same ammount of time as nefaria. Hours after this fight he takes on two other heralds and a genetically enhanced clone of himself.

A few hours after Nefaria's fight he was strapped into a breathing apparatus to keep him a live

3.
Nefaria is now an ionic being

But as a result his hunger will now prove even more of a problem. Yes, he's immortal but he still weakens to the point where bill could easily knock him out.

4.
(The one and only rebuttal to your last argument)

You claimed that thor was exagerating or forgetting about nefaria when he declared the thor the greatest non-asgardian he'd ever faced. The warrior code is THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THOR's LIFE. It's the reason he will follow captain america into the gates of hell. When he makes a statment like that he DOES NOT DO IT LIGHTLY.

5.
Ultimately this is going to be a knock down drag out brawl that will go on for hours. Bill is used to these conditions, nefaria is not Bill will take this after a few hours of solid brawling.

WINNER: BETA RAY BILL!

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Ok, well, I will leave it to the voters.

At the end it is a question whether Nefaria is more powerful or not and how long the battle lasts because as Hippy says this will be a knock down brawl.

 

[hippy fascist]

Ok, well, I will leave it to the voters.

At the end it is a question whether Nefaria is more powerful or not and how long the battle lasts because as Hippy says this will be a knock down brawl.

Definately in my top two debates so far (the other one being famine vs deathstrike which was just insane!)

Please god don't let this one go to a draw

 

[JewishHobbit]

With regards the alien thing, how many times have we seen aliens pair up with humans in the marvel universe

Lilandra Neramani and Xavier
Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers
(though non-admissable due to time of publication) Korvus and Rachel Grey
Gamora and Nova
Hulkling and Wiccan (And that's a gay relationship making it twice as valid!)

It would appear that in the marvel universe love knows no race,colour, creed or even SPECIES! So I can't see how this would prove an issue. When she gets that feeling...'s gonna be sexual healing as the profit marvin once said (marvin sounds alien too! COOL! t

I know her powers will work, but ultimately that will be what decides this contest and in the end it's down to the voters!

On a final note I would ask voters what they would rather see...

This...

or THIS!!!!!!!!!

I'll let you decide

WINNER: TYPHOID MARY!

I'll grant you the female thing, as it certainly does make sense. However, I'm rethinking something with it. It may be able to work... but how in character is it for her to try it? I'm just wondering because you say it's never been shown if she can effect females, but she's went up against them before. I know she's gone up against Jessica Jones and Elektra (possibly more, Black Widow?), and she never tried it on either of them. If she isn't one to typically use the lust button on a female, then is it a valid argument in this match? Is it out of character? Just something for the voters to think about.

And as for the alien thing, I got nothing. The statements above is my argument. And I present this.... Lifeguard can adapt to any physical situation. Who's to say she couldn't adapt to Typhoid's needs and put HER in endless orgasmic bliss to where she can do nothing but lie there in awe.... and be rendered useless, and loses the match (whereas Lifeguard would still be 'going').

Okay... I'm done. It's up to the horny voters to decide.

Winner - Lifeguard

 

[hippy fascist]

I'll grant you the female thing, as it certainly does make sense. However, I'm rethinking something with it. It may be able to work... but how in character is it for her to try it? I'm just wondering because you say it's never been shown if she can effect females, but she's went up against them before. I know she's gone up against Jessica Jones and Elektra (possibly more, Black Widow?), and she never tried it on either of them. If she isn't one to typically use the lust button on a female, then is it a valid argument in this match? Is it out of character? Just something for the voters to think about.

Truth be told I've only read three or four issue with mary in so this was an assumption. For all I know she could be a total diva....

And as for the alien thing, I got nothing. The statements above is my argument. And I present this.... Lifeguard can adapt to any physical situation. Who's to say she couldn't adapt to Typhoid's needs and put HER in endless orgasmic bliss to where she can do nothing but lie there in awe.... and be rendered useless, and loses the match (whereas Lifeguard would still be 'going').

LIFE THREATENING SITUATION. Her powers don't make her spit out ice cubes when she wants a cold drink and they won't help here. Mary will seduce and incapacitate, not decapitate. It's completely non-lethal (wouldn't even hurt her, just cause her to drift off like taking a sleeping pill. I maintain that her powers require peril to work. There is no real peril here and she's not called Honour Guard so I don't see her powers kicking in. Sorry


WINNER: TYPHOID MARY!

 

[JewishHobbit]

LIFE THREATENING SITUATION. Her powers don't make her spit out ice cubes when she wants a cold drink and they won't help here. Mary will seduce and incapacitate, not decapitate. It's completely non-lethal (wouldn't even hurt her, just cause her to drift off like taking a sleeping pill. I maintain that her powers require peril to work. There is no real peril here and she's not called Honour Guard so I don't see her powers kicking in. Sorry


WINNER: TYPHOID MARY!

Actually, you know, I will make one more debate because I just thought of something. Lifeguard's powers kick in when there's a POTENTIAL of danger. Thing is, Typhoid Mary is fairly well known and can be learned about with a newspaper or computer (or maybe Xavier's files or the X-Corps files, as she is a mutant). It wouldn't be hard for her to learn about Typhoid during preptime. If she begins to feel a lustful attraction for Typhoid, her body would realize what's going on and form a defense of some type. Her body had done it when Lady Mastermind was messing with her. LM's powers worked on her, but mentally she formed her armor and wings and flew like a rocket into a wall and such while in her mind. Mental dangers do trigger Lifeguard's powers. The way I see it, Lifeguard will feel the lust but will begin to battle it. If Typhoid slowly tries to seduce her, it'd only take time before Lifeguard manages to overcome it and takes the girl out. If Typhoid realizes this in some way, then she'd try a quick attack, which will definately trigger Lifeguard's powers, and it would then become a physical assault, which Lifeguard has the advantage in. And let's remember this... Typhoid won't know much on Lifeguard at all. I doubt that she would even know how her powers work in the slightest. She wouldn't know to NOT present a danger.

You know, now that I think about it. I 100% don't see the LUST factor working in this match. I think Lifeguard will adapt to counter it and Typhoid won't even see it coming. I think Lifeguard's adaptation and shi'ar bloodlust is going to lay Typhoid out!

Winner - Lifeguard

Okay, now I'm done. I need to get ready for work. Been fun debating Hippy. I'm curious to see how this turns out.

 

[hippy fascist]

Actually, you know, I will make one more debate because I just thought of something. Lifeguard's powers kick in when there's a POTENTIAL of danger. Thing is, Typhoid Mary is fairly well known and can be learned about with a newspaper or computer (or maybe Xavier's files or the X-Corps files, as she is a mutant). It wouldn't be hard for her to learn about Typhoid during preptime. If she begins to feel a lustful attraction for Typhoid, her body would realize what's going on and form a defense of some type. Her body had done it when Lady Mastermind was messing with her. LM's powers worked on her, but mentally she formed her armor and wings and flew like a rocket into a wall and such while in her mind. Mental dangers do trigger Lifeguard's powers. The way I see it, Lifeguard will feel the lust but will begin to battle it. If Typhoid slowly tries to seduce her, it'd only take time before Lifeguard manages to overcome it and takes the girl out. If Typhoid realizes this in some way, then she'd try a quick attack, which will definately trigger Lifeguard's powers, and it would then become a physical assault, which Lifeguard has the advantage in. And let's remember this... Typhoid won't know much on Lifeguard at all. I doubt that she would even know how her powers work in the slightest. She wouldn't know to NOT present a danger.

Herseduction powers are not common knowledge,only her pyrokynesis and telekenesis. Also the act of seduction does not cause danger. Being seduced by mary may ultimately be very dangerous but she doesn't know that and besides her powers react, they don't work on every possible outcome. They react to what is going on around her and what is directly threatening her. Also her powers tend to manifest in an outward capacity like armour or gills.I.e. Not psychologically.

You know, now that I think about it. I 100% don't see the LUST factor working in this match. I think Lifeguard will adapt to counter it and Typhoid won't even see it coming. I think Lifeguard's adaptation and shi'ar bloodlust is going to lay Typhoid out!

There are no preventative measures against love. Much as you try to fight it, when you meet that one special person there's nothing you can do to stop it. You can wear kevlar to stop a knife or shield but there's no such thing as a loveproof vest(even in comics). She's going DOWN!

WINNER: TYPHOID MARY!

Okay, now I'm done. I need to get ready for work. Been fun debating Hippy. I'm curious to see how this turns out.

Indeed, the feeling was most certainly mutual. A lot like the love these two vixens are certain to feel for each other

 

[JewishHobbit]

Herseduction powers are not common knowledge,only her pyrokynesis and telekenesis. Also the act of seduction does not cause danger. Being seduced by mary may ultimately be very dangerous but she doesn't know that and besides her powers react, they don't work on every possible outcome. They react to what is going on around her and what is directly threatening her. Also her powers tend to manifest in an outward capacity like armour or gills.I.e. Not psychologically.

They manifested psychologically in X-Treme X-Men when facing Lady Mastermand and Sebastian Shaw to save Sage. It can definately work. And even then, it manifested mentally, not physically. And even if most people doesn't know about Typhoid's powers... look at the scenerio. Two women thrown together to do battle. Everyone in the tourney knows that going in. Both know their opponant going in (not well, but they are 'told' who they're fighting). If Lifeguard goes into battle with this creepy looking chick, and suddenly feels all lustful lovey dovey... her body will react, because it's obvious something isn't right in this situation. I don't find it hard at all to see her body kicking in to the potential danger of Typhoid's mental attack. Even if it is lustful and loving, it's still an attack, and being that her body has reacted in the past to mental invasions, it'd react here as well. Not only that, we still don't know how her Shi'ar bloodlust would react with this lust notion. It could completely counter the Lust for all we know.

There are no preventative measures against love. Much as you try to fight it, when you meet that one special person there's nothing you can do to stop it. You can wear kevlar to stop a knife or shield but there's no such thing as a loveproof vest(even in comics). She's going DOWN!

Sure there is. People deny love all the time. It's Lust that you have to be careful of (which this is) and even so, it's denied in life constantly as well. Heck, people like me wait until they're married to have sex... can't tell me that LUST is undeniable... I'm proof

Winner - Lifeguard

Okay, NOW I'm getting ready for work. I'm going to be late!

 

[hippy fascist]

They manifested psychologically in X-Treme X-Men when facing Lady Mastermand and Sebastian Shaw to save Sage. It can definately work. And even then, it manifested mentally, not physically. And even if most people doesn't know about Typhoid's powers... look at the scenerio. Two women thrown together to do battle. Everyone in the tourney knows that going in. Both know their opponant going in (not well, but they are 'told' who they're fighting). If Lifeguard goes into battle with this creepy looking chick, and suddenly feels all lustful lovey dovey... her body will react, because it's obvious something isn't right in this situation. I don't find it hard at all to see her body kicking in to the potential danger of Typhoid's mental attack. Even if it is lustful and loving, it's still an attack, and being that her body has reacted in the past to mental invasions, it'd react here as well. Not only that, we still don't know how her Shi'ar bloodlust would react with this lust notion. It could completely counter the Lust for all we know.

But I will say this again. THE ONLY DANGER IS HER LOSING THE MATCH. SHE IS NOT PHYSICALLY AT RISK HERE SO HER POWERS WILL NOT REACT!

Sure there is. People deny love all the time. It's Lust that you have to be careful of (which this is) and even so, it's denied in life constantly as well. Heck, people like me wait until they're married to have sex... can't tell me that LUST is undeniable... I'm proof

Your argument's backwards, love makes you want to do anything for a person, to risk your life for them and keep them safe from harm. It bends you to their will and if you read any biography of mary you will see that her powers work on the basis of love NOT LUST. Lust is perfectly deniable, just look at JAL... Lust makes you want to put your penis in a chicks cooch. That's all it does, love however bends you to their will which is what mary can do. Lifeguard will have a nice make-out session followed by a jolly happy pill which sends her gently off to sleep. She will then wake up, knowing in her heart of hearts that she never stood a chance



Winner - TYPHOID MARY!

Okay, NOW I'm getting ready for work. I'm going to be late![/quote]

 

[JewishHobbit]

But I will say this again. THE ONLY DANGER IS HER LOSING THE MATCH. SHE IS NOT PHYSICALLY AT RISK HERE SO HER POWERS WILL NOT REACT!

She doesn't have to be... she can potentially be in danger, not just physically. Your opponant comes onto you, or even draws near... it's a danger. She doesn't have to be throwing knives at her for Lifeguard's powers to kick in. She just has to register that the potential's there. And trust me, if your FOE comes at you all lovey dovey... something's wrong... there's the potential. She's shown in the comics that that's all it takes, basic potential. She doesn't even have to see her foe or know their there to start adapting. Why do you think she's always in that golden armor and with wings? The potential's always there. And Typhoid needs to be careful, whose to say Shi'ar don't bite the heads off of their lovers If it even works on bloodthirsty chicks to begin with.

Okay, computer's going off now.

Winner - Men

 

[hippy fascist]

She doesn't have to be... she can potentially be in danger, not just physically. Your opponant comes onto you, or even draws near... it's a danger. She doesn't have to be throwing knives at her for Lifeguard's powers to kick in. She just has to register that the potential's there. And trust me, if your FOE comes at you all lovey dovey... something's wrong... there's the potential. She's shown in the comics that that's all it takes, basic potential. She doesn't even have to see her foe or know their there to start adapting. Why do you think she's always in that golden armor and with wings? The potential's always there. And Typhoid needs to be careful, whose to say Shi'ar don't bite the heads off of their lovers If it even works on bloodthirsty chicks to begin with.

Okay, computer's going off now.

Winner - Men

Shi-ar: Non applicable since she'll be out for the count by then. There's a trick an old friend used to pull where she'd kiss you to pass you a pill with her tongue if she thought she was gonna get searched, and didn't want to double drop.

Defenses: Yes they would be up but in the form of flame ******ent skin and golden armour, possibly wings but the point of her powers is to offer a physical defence against harm. Love is not part of the program. She has no defence against this power since love is not harmfull, and therefore, won't be able to attack once she's in her thrall so the best you could ever hope for is a stalemate.

WINNER: KLEENEX SHAREHOLDERS...

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Count Nefaria

*Moses Magnum - (Four top characters, and after Round 2, only one will come away victorious. Either way, this is the toughest thread to vote for this week. All four matches are excellent.)

*Jocasta

*Typhoid Mary - (I'm a huge Typhoid Mary fan, and she's really hardly been used in comics for quite a while. Typhoid got me back into Daredevil back in the very early 90's, and I remember her first appearance going for quite a bit of dough. Lifeguard just doesn't have her experience or killer instinct.)

 

[hippy fascist]

tut tut, double post...

Beta Ray Bill: Great debate but I think the ionic drain on nefaria will give this one to Bill.

Man Beast: The teleportation edged it out for me tricky call though

Maverick: The forcefield will only help him meaning he should be able to pull it off

Typhoid: WOOT! LESBIANS! Plus it's the one power lifeguards defenseless against

 

[Hellstormer]

Maverick (-changed fr fairness-)
Beta ray Bill (C'mon this guy can smack down Thor)
Moses Magnum (His powers are on a higher scale.)
Lifeguard (The adaptoid ability just puts her a smidge higher then Mary.)