Arrowverse General CRISIS on Infinite Earths - 5 show crossover (TAG SPOILERS!)

There are barely any couples in the Arrowverse at this point with Iris/Barry, Sara/Ava being the only full time couples between 4 shows. Iris/Barry will obviously have a moment which is to be expected and should happen regardless.
 
Couples having 'moments' is fine. It adds to the stakes. Just so long as they don't make it as heavy-handed as they did in Crisis on Earth-X.
 
There are barely any couples in the Arrowverse at this point with Iris/Barry, Sara/Ava being the only full time couples between 4 shows. Iris/Barry will obviously have a moment which is to be expected and should happen regardless.

Ahh, but you have mentioned the person who inspires unreasonable amount of hate.
 
There are barely any couples in the Arrowverse at this point with Iris/Barry, Sara/Ava being the only full time couples between 4 shows. Iris/Barry will obviously have a moment which is to be expected and should happen regardless.
My response was regarding romance in the Batwoman series, in general - because that’s what I thought @Flash525 was referring to. To wit: the mere depiction of a gay relationship shouldn’t count as “pushing an agenda” since we don’t use that standard to judge the depiction of straight relationships.

As for the crossover, things are looking pretty chock-a-block with all these guest stars and cameos. So I doubt there’ll be much screen time for lovey-dovey stuff - beyond acknowledging that certain characters (Barry/Iris, Superman/Lois) are couples.
 
For better or worse (and sometimes it's worse :word:), the stars and co-stars of these shows have multiple “love interest” side plots. And it’s not necessarily pushing an agenda if the lesbian protagonist merely follows the same romance template as other series.
On this, I'd agree. I have no problem with the relationship between Sara and Ava, it's even had it's cute moments, but Sara of Season 3, where we were witness to her bedding every historic female figure she came across became tiresome. It doesn't add to the theme of the show at all.

I mean, is giving her an early Arrow Oliver Queen love life "pushing the LGTBQ" agenda?
I guess that depends on the character. Young Oliver Queen was the typical ladies man, does Kate Kane match up to that persona? She'd an adult, not an early 20's playboy (or playgirl in her case).

Honestly, I am hoping that we dont focus on anyone's love life period during this crossover.
I don't think there's going to be a lot of time for that on this crossover, hah.

Considering the huge cast involved, I just want to see an epic crossover event.
Likewise.

There are barely any couples in the Arrowverse at this point with Iris/Barry, Sara/Ava being the only full time couples between 4 shows. Iris/Barry will obviously have a moment which is to be expected and should happen regardless.

Established:
  • Barry & Iris
  • Ollie & Felicity
  • Sara & Ava
  • Joe & Cicile
  • Jeff & Lynn
  • John & Lyla
Expanding:
  • Ray & Nora
  • Nate & Zari(?)
  • Brainy & Nia
Up & Coming:
  • Alex & Kelly (James' Sister)
Uncertain:
  • Lena & James
  • Anissa & Shay
 
I'm excited to see Brandon Routh as Superman again but I haven't seen any of the Arrowverse shows. Would it make any sense to watch this if I haven't seen the others? Most of the shows don't really interest me.
 
I'm excited to see Brandon Routh as Superman again but I haven't seen any of the Arrowverse shows. Would it make any sense to watch this if I haven't seen the others? Most of the shows don't really interest me.

I suppose watching the prior, “Elseworlds” crossover would be helpful - inasmuch as “Crisis” is kind of a direct sequel. Of course, if you’re totally unfamiliar with the shows, then the appearance of (say) doppelganger Alex Danvers (who?) might be confusing.
 
On this, I'd agree. I have no problem with the relationship between Sara and Ava, it's even had it's cute moments, but Sara of Season 3, where we were witness to her bedding every historic female figure she came across became tiresome. It doesn't add to the theme of the show at all.

I guess that depends on the character. Young Oliver Queen was the typical ladies man, does Kate Kane match up to that persona? She'd an adult, not an early 20's playboy (or playgirl in her case).

I don't think there's going to be a lot of time for that on this crossover, hah.

Likewise.



Established:
  • Barry & Iris
  • Ollie & Felicity
  • Sara & Ava
  • Joe & Cicile
  • Jeff & Lynn
  • John & Lyla
Expanding:
  • Ray & Nora
  • Nate & Zari(?)
  • Brainy & Nia
Up & Coming:
  • Alex & Kelly (James' Sister)
Uncertain:
  • Lena & James
  • Anissa & Shay

Oliver was an adult. And there are plenty of adults who like to play field.

Olicity is dead at this moment, she isnt in the show so there is nothing for them to show case. Jeff & Lynn are not part of the Arrowverse. John and Lyla are very part time while the liklihood of Joe and Cecile having anything that big to do in COIE is very slim to none.
 
I'm excited to see Brandon Routh as Superman again but I haven't seen any of the Arrowverse shows. Would it make any sense to watch this if I haven't seen the others? Most of the shows don't really interest me.
I've given up on watching all the regular CW DC shows apart from Black Lightning. But I watch (and own) the crossover events and the animated tie-ins, and I follow general plot developments and watch the odd clip online. I find that works for me :up:
 
Oliver was an adult. And there are plenty of adults who like to play field.
Oliver was a young adult, and that was his thing. You're right, there are plenty of adults that play the field, but how does portraying that on a DC show about superheroes remotely add to their character? It doesn't. I don't mind people in relationships, or just having their own bit of fun, but (regarding that one season of Legends) it just didn't do anything for the show, or the character. We already know/knew what Sara was (bisexual?) and yet the writers felt the need to highlight that. Why?

Olicity is dead at this moment, she isnt in the show so there is nothing for them to show case.
But they're not dead. It's a safe bet to say that Felicity was returned to Oliver via that scene with the Monitor and her. I very much doubt, despite what's been said, that she wont appear in the final season either.

Jeff & Lynn are not part of the Arrowverse. John and Lyla are very part time while the liklihood of Joe and Cecile having anything that big to do in COIE is very slim to none.
You've obviously missed the fact that Black Lightning will be appearing in the crossover, and thus they are part of the Arrowverse; those characters just haven't crossed paths with everyone else yet.
 
Oliver was a young adult, and that was his thing. You're right, there are plenty of adults that play the field, but how does portraying that on a DC show about superheroes remotely add to their character? It doesn't. I don't mind people in relationships, or just having their own bit of fun, but (regarding that one season of Legends) it just didn't do anything for the show, or the character. We already know/knew what Sara was (bisexual?) and yet the writers felt the need to highlight that. Why?

But they're not dead. It's a safe bet to say that Felicity was returned to Oliver via that scene with the Monitor and her. I very much doubt, despite what's been said, that she wont appear in the final season either.

You've obviously missed the fact that Black Lightning will be appearing in the crossover, and thus they are part of the Arrowverse; those characters just haven't crossed paths with everyone else yet.

These characters are superheroes but they are still people. They arent in superhero mode 24/7. Oliver Queen in the comics is a known PLAYBOY! He's cheated multiple times, slept with multiple women. Same with Bruce and his million relationships.

Sara sleeping with men/women is part of her character so her sleeping with any of the genders is...what she does.

Felicity returned to Oliver 20 years later, and right now Emily has said she doesnt plan on returning. She definitely will most likely miss the crossover, especially since those are exhausting to film and she left for a reason.

Black Lightning crossing over doesnt put him int he Arrowverse, the OG Flash isnt part of the Arrowverse. They are still very much their own entities even if they show up for a cameo.
 
I'm excited to see Brandon Routh as Superman again but I haven't seen any of the Arrowverse shows. Would it make any sense to watch this if I haven't seen the others? Most of the shows don't really interest me.
Watching the Elseworlds crossover would probably be all you’d need. It clues you in on the character relationships and directly sets up this one.
 
I'm excited to see Brandon Routh as Superman again but I haven't seen any of the Arrowverse shows. Would it make any sense to watch this if I haven't seen the others? Most of the shows don't really interest me.
Actually, that's a very good thing as you will be able to enjoy it for what it is rather than get bogged down by how good (or bad or boring) their earlier episodes were.
 
Black Lightning crossing over doesnt put him int he Arrowverse, the OG Flash isnt part of the Arrowverse. They are still very much their own entities even if they show up for a cameo.
Arrowverse refers to the entire shared multiverse. Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-38, Earth-90, etc are all part of the Arrowverse.

If Black Lightning is established as taking place on a world within the multiverse, then it absolutely is part of the Arrowverse, as is the 1990 Flash show, Supergirl, and NBC's Constantine.
 
Arrowverse refers to the entire shared multiverse. Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-38, Earth-90, etc are all part of the Arrowverse.

If Black Lightning is established as taking place on a world within the multiverse, then it absolutely is part of the Arrowverse, as is the 1990 Flash show, Supergirl, and NBC's Constantine.

I view these shows as separate entities even if they do end up crossing over with the Arrowverse. Arrowverse imo helps define what shows it helped spin off. If they get some Smallville characters in there, saying they are part of the Arrowverse seems diminishing to me.
 
I view these shows as separate entities even if they do end up crossing over with the Arrowverse. Arrowverse imo helps define what shows it helped spin off. If they get some Smallville characters in there, saying they are part of the Arrowverse seems diminishing to me.

Black Lightning exists because of the Arrowverse with or without direct help in spinning it out. Without Greg Berlanti's pull, Black Lightning never would have even been accepted as a pitch, let alone picked up on CW after Fox passed originally.

Regardless, the multiverse is an established part of the reality of the Arrowverse. If the creators of the Arrowverse are telling you through the shows that Supergirl, Flash 1990, or Black Lightning exist in that multiverse and their characters cross over, it's part of the Arrowverse.

Flash 1990 especially has a strong case as several characters from that series have reprised either their original role or a doppelganger of it (Barry, Julio, Tina, Bellows, Trickster, Prank), many of them multiple times. The legacy of that show has shaded the Arrowverse since at least Arrow season 2.

Smallville is horrible and I don't want it associated with the Arrowverse, but if its characters are representing their original versions and taking part in the narrative of the story itself, I don't see how it can be denied as part and parcel of the Arrowverse.
 
These characters are superheroes but they are still people. They arent in superhero mode 24/7. Oliver Queen in the comics is a known PLAYBOY! He's cheated multiple times, slept with multiple women. Same with Bruce and his million relationships.

Sara sleeping with men/women is part of her character so her sleeping with any of the genders is...what she does.
And I completely get that, but that's not what I'm saying is it? I'm simply stating that their actions don't add to the show; especially if that aspect of a character is being shoehorned into every other episode.

Black Lightning crossing over doesnt put him int he Arrowverse, the OG Flash isnt part of the Arrowverse. They are still very much their own entities even if they show up for a cameo.
As already stated by a few others here, despite what you may desire to be the case, if a character from another show appears within the Arrowverse, then by definition, that show is part of the Arrowverse. They may be lesser, or not as significant as say, Flash or Supergirl, but they're still very much part of it. To say they aren't is like saying Supergirl isn't either. Obviously not true.
 
I suppose the question of what constitutes the “Arrowverse” is of some conceptual or semantic interest (especially amongst us fellow nerds ;nd). But if “sharing” is an intrinsic aspect of a “shared universe,” it seems to me that extinct series - like The Flash (1990) - can’t qualify, because no part of the current continuity can retroactively affect them. Whereas, within the “conventional” Arrowverse, knowledge of Earth-1 can actively inform an Earth-38 story (and vice-versa). So perhaps we need a different term for the accommodation of characters from past shows…? :shrug:

As for Black Lightning, a good case can be made that it’s not part of the Arrowverse… yet. But if it is incorporated into the upcoming crossover, I guess it becomes so.

On a related note: if the various Earths are merged in “Crisis,” who gets to be POTUS? On Earth-38, it’s currently someone named Plastino. On Earth-1, it’s Susan Brayden (?). And is it Trump on BL Earth (therefore, our Earth?) because former POTUS Obama has been mentioned? :cwink:
 
On a related note: if the various Earths are merged in “Crisis,” who gets to be POTUS? On Earth-38, it’s currently someone named Plastino. On Earth-1, it’s Susan Brayden (?). And is it Trump on BL Earth (therefore, our Earth?) because former POTUS Obama has been mentioned?
I'm not convinced we'll get that grand merger of worlds. There's just too much that would need rectifying or changing for each individual show if they went there.

To date, short of the Dominators, Earth-1 hasn't had any alien visitors. I'm excluding E38's Kara and Clark for the moment. Earth-38 (and in turn, the Supergirl show) thrives on the fact that alien immigrants exist on it. If the planets were to merge, suddenly you'd either have no aliens, or you'd have aliens that live alongside the likes of Barry, Ollie, Pierce etc. We'd also have to practically forget everything that came before the crossover.

If Barry changes the timeline, we may get Baby John instead of Baby Sara. Small change in the timeline there. If all the Earth's suddenly merge into one however, then everything we've witnessed up until said point wouldn't have actually happened - at least not in the way we've seen. That would be a huge disservice to the characters up until now. I don't think they're going to do it. I honestly don't see how they can.
 
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I suppose the question of what constitutes the “Arrowverse” is of some conceptual or semantic interest (especially amongst us fellow nerds ;nd). But if “sharing” is an intrinsic aspect of a “shared universe,” it seems to me that extinct series - like The Flash (1990) - can’t qualify, because no part of the current continuity can retroactively affect them. Whereas, within the “conventional” Arrowverse, knowledge of Earth-1 can actively inform an Earth-38 story (and vice-versa). So perhaps we need a different term for the accommodation of characters from past shows…? :shrug:

As for Black Lightning, a good case can be made that it’s not part of the Arrowverse… yet. But if it is incorporated into the upcoming crossover, I guess it becomes so.

On a related note: if the various Earths are merged in “Crisis,” who gets to be POTUS? On Earth-38, it’s currently someone named Plastino. On Earth-1, it’s Susan Brayden (?). And is it Trump on BL Earth (therefore, our Earth?) because former POTUS Obama has been mentioned? :cwink:
Hmm. That's interesting... Not saying I agree, not saying I don't (I'm still mulling it over), but it's certainly an interesting point :up:
 
Of course the current continuity retroactively affects Earth-90. Did you not see Earth-90's heroes get decimated in Elseworlds last year?
 
Of course the current continuity retroactively affects Earth-90. Did you not see Earth-90's heroes get decimated in Elseworlds last year?
Sure. But to reiterate my point about semantics, there are two different senses of the word “Arrowverse” (or “shared universe” more generally). One is about an interrelationship between various fictional constructions; and the other refers to a specific collection of real-world television series. So, yes, Flash 90 (the character) can appear in any of the current Arrowverse shows. But no Arrowverse character can appear - obviously - in The Flash (1990) (the actual series, cancelled some 18 years ago).

Thus, there’s a clear (if technical) distinction between TV productions which actively intermesh their storylines (like the 5 current DC/CW shows) and one that can only be a source of content (like The Flash (1990)). Or, as they say on Sesame Street, one of these things is not like the other. :word:
 

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