Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 6

[pixen]

I hope the romance thing only happens between Matt and Elektra. Don't need her going after Punisher too. I could see her being brought in by a mob boss or possibly even to take out Daredevil. What I'm curious about is whether or not she'll be a part of The Hand or if she has already left the Hand when she gets to NYC.

 

[Slick]

Re-watching Daredevil and Jessica Jones back to back. These two series Compliment each other well.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Re-watching Daredevil and Jessica Jones back to back. These two series Compliment each other well.

They really do.

I'm on a re-watch of Daredevil right now myself.

You can really see how they fit in in the same universe. I really enjoyed [BLACKOUT]Claire's[/BLACKOUT] appearance as well and her talking about "this guy" she knows.

 

[Slick]

I found this on YouTube. Sorry if this has been posted.

Just when Matt thinks he is bringing order back to the city, new forces are rising in Hell’s Kitchen. Now the Man Without Fear must take on a new adversary in Frank Castle and face an old flame – Elektra Natchios.

Bigger problems emerge when Frank Castle, a man looking for vengeance, is reborn as The Punisher, a man who takes justice into his own hands in Matt’s neighborhood. Meanwhile, Matt must balance his duty to his community as a lawyer and his dangerous life as the Devil of Hell’s Kitchen, facing a life-altering choice that forces him to truly understand what it means to be a hero.

 

[ernesth100]

Sounds about exactly what everyone expected.

 

[Bruce Malone]

This has probably been posted here before but the sizzle reel for the cancelled Joe Carnahan 1970's set Daredevil reboot movie is still cool to check out

[YT]?v=eLfXo_gSd3I[/YT]

I can see some elements of this in the show.

 

[DigificWriter]

Can anybody explain why Daredevil is so good compared to Agents of Shield? Where did Joss go wrong (since it's his series even if his brother Jed and sister-in-law Maurissa are the ones in charge day-to-day) in comparison to his collaborators (Drew Goddard, Stephen S. DeKnight, and Doug Petrie) who worked on DD?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

the first half of AoS tried the mimic the fun and energy of the first avengers, plus its more family friendly. DD is great in terms of depth and closeness when it comes to the story. The characters are also somewhat more relatable and less annoying. DD has a lot of humanity to it.

 

[DigificWriter]

Joss can usually deliver on the kind of stuff that Daredevil has in spades without sacrificing a sense of fun, but AoS just doesn't have his 'magic touch', especially in comparison to both of his Avengers movies, and, as a die-hard Whedonite, I really want to know what caused AoS to not live up to expectations or Joss' usually high standards, especially when said standards are mirrored/echoed by the people who made Daredevil.

 

[Whatupman]

Joss can usually deliver on the kind of stuff that Daredevil has in spades without sacrificing a sense of fun, but AoS just doesn't have his 'magic touch', especially in comparison to both of his Avengers movies, and, as a die-hard Whedonite, I really want to know what caused AoS to not live up to expectations or Joss' usually high standards, especially when said standards are mirrored/echoed by the people who made Daredevil.

Joss wasn't as involved in AoS as he was in The Avengers movies and, for example, Firefly, was he? That would explain why AoS didn't reach his usually high standards.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Joss has next to no involvement in Agents of SHIELD. I think he has none now. The show is much better when they went darker and introduced story arcs as opposed to individual stories per episode.

But it'll still have two things holding it back. First, there are people who want established comic characters. Those people are never going to like the show for that reason alone. Daredevil has a leg up because he's a comic character. Second, and I think more importantly, Netflix has a longer production schedule. Episodes are written, polished, filmed, and polished. The show isn't released until everyone is happy with the final product. While the turnaround time is quicker than a movie, it's much slower than ABC. Network television requires you to do your best and move on, not work on it until it's perfect. That means both the writing and filming can have flaws that aren't going to get fixed.

 

[DigificWriter]

Joss wasn't all that involved with ANGEL beyond the first season or Buffy in Season 6, but the two series still maintained the standard of storytelling quality that he'd become known for.

On AoS, though, he wasn't even able to match his own standards with the Pilot, and it's always both puzzled and saddened me, especially since Daredevil came along and gave us the usual Joss standard of storytelling from people with whom he'd previously collaborated, but independently of him.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Daredevil has a very different tone than a Whedon-style show. It makes it an odd comparison. But I'd argue that neither Daredevil nor Agents of SHIELD are Whedon shows. I really think you're overestimating his involvement.

 

[TheVileOne]

To me the acting and performances and dialogue are a little more natural and realistic on Daredevil. Far too often Agents of SHIELD makes me feel like I'm watching a TV show.

I really liked the first season of Agents of SHIELD and thought it did a pretty good job of playing the long game. However, I also think there have been quite a few missed opportunities throughout the three seasons.

Daredevil I think is a pretty great adaptation of the comics. The stuff with D'Onofrio as Kingpin is like watching the character from the pages of Frank Miller's run coming to life. It's weirdly eerie and awesome.

Agents of SHIELD is OK, but there's just no one on there that really matches the level of D'Onofrio's Kingpin. The villains for the first three seasons have been rather weak. The show has failed to really produce an awesome signature villain or antagonist.

 

[Man in the Suit]

DeKnight/Goddard just happen to be better writers than Whedon/Tancharoen. Better actors. No major restrictions from the network. Less episodes also help.

Joss Whedon isn't involved with AOS. He wrote/directed the pilot. That's it.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think shorter seasons are always better. There's always so much filler on AOS, and the stories tend to drag as a result.

 

[Shakel92]

The biggest advantage of DD over AoS is that all episodes come out at once. If you binge watch AoS it's a lot better. If there was ever an episode of AoS that focused on one character on a couch recovering from a fight I'd be pretty upset. But with DD you can immediatley start watching the next show, instead of waiting until next week.

Besides, it isn't fair to compare them. They are going for different audiences. I'll watch anything the MCU puts out, but I do that with the realization that it's all different.

If/when a Power Pack show comes out on ABCFamily, I'll watching knowing that Luke Cage isn't going to be pounding Jessica Jones from behind. The same can be said for the Damage Control show.

The "genre" of comic books has a multitude of sub-genres that should be appreciated for their diversity. It's natural to compare and have preferences, but I'm just glad there are so many to enjoy.

 

[Random490]

The biggest advantage of DD over AoS is that all episodes come out at once. If you binge watch AoS it's a lot better. If there was ever an episode of AoS that focused on one character on a couch recovering from a fight I'd be pretty upset. But with DD you can immediatley start watching the next show, instead of waiting until next week.

That's true of most shows, having to wait a week and then plan you schedule around the episode's premiere will make well paced stories seem to drag on forever. And you're much more forgiving when you don't have to over analyze/theorize and wait in anticpation for the next week.

 

[kedrell]

The biggest advantage of DD over AoS is that all episodes come out at once. If you binge watch AoS it's a lot better. If there was ever an episode of AoS that focused on one character on a couch recovering from a fight I'd be pretty upset. But with DD you can immediatley start watching the next show, instead of waiting until next week.

Besides, it isn't fair to compare them. They are going for different audiences. I'll watch anything the MCU puts out, but I do that with the realization that it's all different.

If/when a Power Pack show comes out on ABCFamily, I'll watching knowing that Luke Cage isn't going to be pounding Jessica Jones from behind. The same can be said for the Damage Control show.

The "genre" of comic books has a multitude of sub-genres that should be appreciated for their diversity. It's natural to compare and have preferences, but I'm just glad there are so many to enjoy.

I wholeheartedly agree. I watched the first 2 episodes of AoS season 1 and didn't like them much so I stopped watching until I could just binge the entire season. When I did that it was much better. I still say the 1st half of season 1 is the absolute weakest thing in the entire MCU but the 2nd half did much to redeem that season and each subsequent season has gotten better and better. Right now I'd say AoS season 3 is up to par with the current season of the Flash in terms of quality. Still not Daredevil/Jessica Jones quality but when you're on another platform those come with inherent advantages regarding what you can do. AoS has to play by network TV rules.

 

[aNarcHy2day]

It goes both ways though. It's entirely possible that if it was a normal weekly show on, say, HBO (to eliminate budget concerns) the episode would have more action elements to it in addition to character drama. The fact that people can binge watch allows them to write and shoot episodes in a particular way.

It does not absolve AoS of all it's problems. It's a series that's not intentioned to be binge watched and they know that while writing it.

There are great, engaging weekly TV shows that do exist, you know.

 

[kedrell]

Here's a Larger version 2219x1500

So the poster has both living and dead characters on it. We've got evil/villains on the right. Good on the left. Then there's the 'middle ground' containing Stick and I'm assuming Stone, looks like Melvin Potter with the cloth (?), the kid that Stick was sent to kill). Any thoughts to if any one else significant is in that 'middle ground' (or even elsewhere) in the poster (outside the main characters that we already know)?

Well Foggy's hook-up Marci is there in the middle part.

 

[Silvermoon]

Well Foggy's hook-up Marci is there in the middle part.

I was wondering who that was

 

[Overman27pj]

Can anybody explain why Daredevil is so good compared to Agents of Shield? Where did Joss go wrong (since it's his series even if his brother Jed and sister-in-law Maurissa are the ones in charge day-to-day) in comparison to his collaborators (Drew Goddard, Stephen S. DeKnight, and Doug Petrie) who worked on DD?

I'd say that the Daredevil book is much better than AoS book. Somethings just write themselves better.

 

[FataLethal]

Maybe I think Daredevil is an iconic character with deep history and influences. So translating that to tv is more consistent and obvious. Whereas for AoS it's just some random characters I don't know anything about.

If AoS contains more Fury, DumDum, Gabe Jones, Contessa, basically the Howling Commandos, maybe I would have stayed on. I actually expected a Secret Warriors type approach but no. We got a generic network procedural show imo. The 26 episodes don't help and it really feels targeted to a casual audience.

This is why I like Agent Carter better than AoS.

I haven't watched AoS since but I read it's getting better.

 

[metaphysician]

I think the problem with AoS is less the premise and more the executions. I say "executions" because a big part of the problem is that their direction keeps *changing*. Half a season of plot-of-the-week agent stuff, half a season of Winter Soldier epilogue, half a season of secret war with Hydra, half a season of Inhumans, then half a season of "we can't even just pick one focus, so we'll run three nigh unrelated plotlines simultaneously".

In retrospect, I think the best thing that could have happened differently for Agents of SHIELD would be if it started a season earlier. Give it one full season to both be its own thing, and to work out the kinks. Then the *next* season, you have half a season of Winter Soldier leadup, and half a season of aftermath, but with a full extra year of development and experience on the staff.