Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 8

[Spider-Fan]

I doubt it's any kind of directive from Leob. It's more of a series-by-series/character-by-character decision, I definitely feel it's up to the show runner. There are a bunch of costumes throughout the all series but the focus is more on story and function rather than obligation. Cloak and Dagger aside since I haven't seen it, all most of the series without outfits makes sense and even when they have outfits but don't wear them it's an organic part of the story. I remember when the first Defenders trailer came out so many people on this bored claimed they were doing away with the red costume but there was a perfectly valid and logical story reason for when he wears the outfit, specially in a world where real costumed superheroes is a relatively new and rare concept.

Personally, I much prefer this approach. I like when writer focuses more on a character's personality, goals, and motivation rather than superficial fan service that can hurt the story. Kind of like what vulture said in Homecoming "what is this pro-wrestling" because even the films introduce outfits in a very organic way, there's very few masked individuals who have colorful outfits for no reason.

Luke Cage did a great job having villain names be introduced as nicknames most of the character got growing up. Daredevil did a great job building up to the red suit in a very consistent and logical manner that only helps the story.

The only show that I felt didn't do a good job was Iron Fist. Not that the lack of the costume wasn't organic or consistent, but because the show had no real visual identity like the others to make up for it. Plus the story we got could have really used an overhaul, one that would make the costume an organic part of the story. That being said Defenders have the perfect tee up for Danny to become a mask vigilante and if season 2 doesn't take advantage of that it would be a huge misstep.

Wouldn't take that much work, Danny is already operating as a vigilante just have one criminal recognize him and attempts to sue Rand Industries. Then have Ward tell Danny off for being irresponsible, have Melvin Potter fail to get a pitch for his armor, Danny takes pity and when talking to him notices it's that same material as Daredevil, convince Ward to hear him out, then Danny has Potter make him an outfit. Then boom, you can have a costume as early as episode 3.

I don't feel this whole "Marvel TV hates costumes" holds much water and I wouldn't be surprised if people start saying the same thing When the DD season 3 trailer drops and we don't see the red costume because off plot related reasons.

We're on the same wave length

I would be shocked if Iron Fist has no costume in season 2. I very much expect it to come. Even if it ends up being toward the end.

 

[Dark Raven]

So about the original Born Again storyline where Karen Page sells out DD because she's hooked on drugs, well she doesn't really seem like the type to go down that path. I suppose anything is possible and anyone can fall, but what if instead [Jessica Jones Season 2 spoilers below]:

Spoiler

it is Patsy Walker who does some kind of selling out. She is someone who clearly has a drug and addiction problem as shown in Season 2 of Jessica Jones. And she seems like she could go to any lengths to feed her addiction.

I don't know if she knows DD's identity or not. But if there were anyone in the Netflix Marvel Universe who would step into that role of Karen in the comics, it seems like it would be her.

 

[Spider-Fan]

So about the original Born Again storyline where Karen Page sells out DD because she's hooked on drugs, well she doesn't really seem like the type to go down that path. I suppose anything is possible and anyone can fall, but what if instead [Jessica Jones Season 2 spoilers below]:

Spoiler

it is Patsy Walker who does some kind of selling out. She is someone who clearly has a drug and addiction problem as shown in Season 2 of Jessica Jones. And she seems like she could go to any lengths to feed her addiction.

I don't know if she knows DD's identity or not. But if there were anyone in the Netflix Marvel Universe who would step into that role of Karen in the comics, it seems like it would be her.

Unlikely, there is no dramatic weight in that case. Karen's past has been referenced in prior seasons, so possible she could betray Matt in some way to protect that. It doesn't have to be selling out Matt for smack.

 

[WhoMani]

I think Fisk will blackmail Karen over her mysterious past in order to actually get confirmation that Matt is Daredevil.

 

[P Supreme]

https://screenrant.com/daredevil-season-3-bullseye-wilson-bethel-confirmed/

I apologize if this has been discussed first I'm hearing about it

 

[Random490]

So about the original Born Again storyline where Karen Page sells out DD because she's hooked on drugs, well she doesn't really seem like the type to go down that path. I suppose anything is possible and anyone can fall, but what if instead [Jessica Jones Season 2 spoilers below]:

Spoiler

it is Patsy Walker who does some kind of selling out. She is someone who clearly has a drug and addiction problem as shown in Season 2 of Jessica Jones. And she seems like she could go to any lengths to feed her addiction.

I don't know if she knows DD's identity or not. But if there were anyone in the Netflix Marvel Universe who would step into that role of Karen in the comics, it seems like it would be her.

Interesting idea but I think it would put too much baggage for JJ season 3 that would have to be addressed.

I think Fisk will blackmail Karen over her mysterious past in order to actually get confirmation that Matt is Daredevil.

I doubt it'll be Karen selling him out, maybe she let's something slip by accident and not a full betrayal. I don't think their gonna be strict in following the source material. I wouldn't be surprised if that sub plot is completely abandoned.

We're on the same wave length

I would be shocked if Iron Fist has no costume in season 2. I very much expect it to come. Even if it ends up being toward the end.

It wouldn't kill the series for me, but I will be really annoyed because they have the perfect setup coming in and didn't take advantage.

 

[Mike Murdock]

And somehow Kevin Feige is not adverse to using costumes.

I don't think Feige is perfect, although he's much better. The hero costumes have been great. Where there might have been issues, they were modernized without problem and people like Spider-Man embraced a costume for the sake of being a costume. Cap took some nuance but is in the same boat.

On the other hand, I do think he hesitates when it comes to non-alien villains whose costumes are not a suit of technology. In other words, Loki and Hela are fine. Iron Monger and Yellowjacket are fine. But Crossbones had to make his a techno suit. People like Batroc didn't have a comics costume. Shocker seemed to avoid even most hints of his costume. In other words, heroes have costumes, but villains haven't caught up.

That brings us back to Daredevil. I maintain that Bullseye has one of the easier costumes to adapt. Just give him a balaclava or ski mask with a bullseye on it with white gloves and maybe a few other hints of his costume on all black and it'll be pretty damn close. But if the show struggles with costumes for good guys, it's definitely behind the curve when it comes to villains.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I sort of get it story wise, given how Defenders ended. We don't know what happened to his suit. So Melvin may need to make him a new one. Also, he may be trying to keep the illusion that he is dead for a while.

I'm sincerely hoping he doesn't get the costume back until the very end and then he has to fight Bullseye who got his costume in the last episode too.

I get if they're doing Born Again, Matt's back is against the wall, but for ****'s sake, 11 episodes without him wearing the suit? I hope their remedy isn't for him to wear the ninja costume that whole time.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In the Born Again storyline itself, Matt was barely in his costume at all. So it has precedent.

 

[Mike Murdock]

If he doesn't have the costume, he damn well better have a blue puffy jacket

Seriously, though, I hope they work on improving the costume and do have it. I won't hate the show if they don't, but it's nice to see Daredevil and not just Matt Murdock.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I would normally agree, but if the story line is based on Born Again, it makes sense if he doesn't have it for a while. That was a primarily Matt driven story. Plus, Matt probably won't immediately be going back into action this season. It may take a few episodes. Given the whole coming back from the dead thing.

 

[dmcreif]

Does anyone here think that Foggy might run against Blake Tower for district attorney in season 3, like he did in the comics?

 

[Spider-Fan]

On one hand, I feel it is too early. On the other, it would add some drama for the season. So maybe.

 

[Random490]

He seems too happy with his current job, I don't see him wanting to become D.A. Maybe for season four, since they can explore his current job and aspirations more before going through with such a huge change

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't think he will. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part that Nelson and Murdock will actually be a thing again. Also, iirc, the comics had the opposite with Tower replacing Foggy?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think Fisk will blackmail Karen over her mysterious past in order to actually get confirmation that Matt is Daredevil.

I am not saying it has to be this way but I don't think Fisk has to go too far into Karen's past to find leverage if they want to go that route. The audience did see Karen kill one of Fisk's underlings. Were he to get info that could pin that on her it's something the viewer has seen and remembers.

On the other hand Fisk was taking an interest in Matt already and knows Matt despite his supposed blindness has a fighter's reaction. Fisk would also have the means to have learned the devil of Hell's Kitchen is considered dead after a clash with the Hand that included a grab bag of other vigilante "heroes". Shortly after Matt Murdock goes missing. He doesn't have to be Sherlock Holmes to make a connection.

 

[TheVileOne]

Why would Fisk blackmail Karen? Why would Karen actually do anything he tells her to do?

Keep in mind Fisk tried to give her hush money before. And she walked away from it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Why would Fisk blackmail Karen? Why would Karen actually do anything he tells her to do?

Keep in mind Fisk tried to give her hush money before. And she walked away from it.

We don't know what's in her past. Maybe he finds something that would hold that type of power over her, we just don't know at this point.

 

[Dark Raven]

Given that Karen has interacted with the likes of the Punisher and DD and other vigilantes in the Defenders like Jessica Jones or Luke Cage, why would she think that her own past is so bad that it needs concealing? Certainly Frank Castle has killed a lot of people and has his own demons. Both Jessica and Luke also have killed people in their past too.

Her killing Fisk's right hand man or any other thing seems hardly that terrible that she can't face up to it or thinks that people won't accept her now.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Given that Karen has interacted with the likes of the Punisher and DD and other vigilantes in the Defenders like Jessica Jones or Luke Cage, why would she think that her own past is so bad that it needs concealing? Certainly Frank Castle has killed a lot of people and has his own demons. Both Jessica and Luke also have killed people in their past too.

Her killing Fisk's right hand man or any other thing seems hardly that terrible that she can't face up to it or thinks that people won't accept her now.

It could be something less about her and about protecting someone else and having to make a choice. Again, we just don't know (or even really if they will use that particular plot point at all).

 

[dmcreif]

Given that Karen has interacted with the likes of the Punisher and DD and other vigilantes in the Defenders like Jessica Jones or Luke Cage, why would she think that her own past is so bad that it needs concealing? Certainly Frank Castle has killed a lot of people and has his own demons. Both Jessica and Luke also have killed people in their past too.

Her killing Fisk's right hand man or any other thing seems hardly that terrible that she can't face up to it or thinks that people won't accept her now.

I feel like it's because it's something that Karen is very much ashamed of, or very traumatic for her. In fact, I think whatever it was might be a factor into whatever opposition she showed to Matt starting up Daredevil again during The Defenders.

 

[dmcreif]

I don't think he will. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part that Nelson and Murdock will actually be a thing again. Also, iirc, the comics had the opposite with Tower replacing Foggy?

I think if Nelson & Murdock reopens, it should reopen as "Stahl, Nelson & Murdock". I think Marci's going to have a much larger role in this upcoming season, as in, more than just a one-scene wonder. She probably has learned the truth about Matt's secret identity from Foggy in the interim since The Defenders, because I imagine that Foggy wouldn't be able to hide his grief from her forever. Marci is also the least developed of the good guy lawyer characters (she is the only white collar lawyer we've seen who isn't crooked, the way Jeri Hogarth, Joy Meachum, Ben Denovan, Linda Chao, and Steve Benowitz are). Furthermore, the core group could use an audience stand-in, and with Karen and Foggy both in on the secret, Marci would be the perfect outsider to question all of the strangeness.

Since Karen's likely staying at the Bulletin, I imagine that a reopened Nelson & Murdock (or Stahl, Nelson & Murdock) would need a new secretary and this might be an opportunity to introduce Becky Blake. (Even better would be if Becky Blake happens to be related to the late Detective Christian Blake that was killed on Fisk's orders in season 1)

 

[Brian Braddock]

In the Born Again storyline itself, Matt was barely in his costume at all. So it has precedent.

Going with a story were the title character hardly wears their costume - just like with Punisher.

Netflix just hates dem dam costumez, eh?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Karen killing another person and having that used against her isn't about acceptance by others. It's about being tried for murder.

 

[Dark Raven]

Going with a story were the title character hardly wears their costume - just like with Punisher.

Netflix just hates dem dam costumez, eh?

They'll probably pick all the storylines where there is as little costume suit-ups as possible.