Daredevil reboot: official discussion thread - Part 2

[MadVillainy]

I never understood the dislike for origin films. I always find those ones (or at least ones when the hero hasnt been active that long) to be the most interesting

 

[The Overlord]

so people who complain about origin films now get one that is'nt and still dont like it?

Just because people don't want to see the origin again, doesn't mean that having a story that requires a lot of setup is the best move for the first film. In a first movie, they cover the origin quickly, but deal with other necessary elements in more detail, Matt meeting Foggy and Karen, the Kingpin's rise to power. It can be an intro movie, without a lot of focus on the origin and since Foggy and Karen didn't get a lot of screen time in the original film and we never see Matt set up his law firm, that would cover new ground.

 

[MadVillainy]

Could we get a new poll? Maybe who should play or direct the new movie? It seems kinda pointless to have the reboot vs sequel poll now

 

[Project862006]

my choice to direct is joe carnahan has shown he could do dark and gritty as shown with narc and the grey and quite a solid director

 

[Saitou Hajime]

If you link the Gladiator story with Kingpin's rise to power, that could be interesting, you could draw some ideas from the Man Without Fear mini. The only problem is you need a suitable climax, which would be tricky. Gladiator would more of a victim then a villain in the last act and I am not sure DD fighting with Kingpin's random mooks to protect Melvin is an epic enough climax. Would Kingpin having a heavy hitter in the story be too many villains or would add something for the climax?

Kingpin would be a minor antagonist whose true influence isn't revealed until the final moments. Our main antagonist would be Alexander Bont (who represents the last holdout faction) and his costumed dragon, maybe classic Bullseye (who turns on Bont in favor of the Kingpin) or a reimagined minor villain like a Mr Fear, Bullet, or Palladin. Melvin would basically be Matt's client, with flashbacks to his skirmishes with DD as Gladiator, and perhaps a tease of a return to villainy before he backs down. Our climax would be a police/mob/vigilante brawl, sort of the bank heist from Heat meets The Raid.

Also I guess you are saying the second movie would be based on Born Again, correct? I'm not sure what other crime bosses Fox or Marvel would have the rights too, with Sony owning Spidey's rogues gallery. Though an Owl vs. Kingpin war might be in of itself suitable for a movie.

If Richard Fisk doesn't belong to anybody, then I envision him being reimagined into Matt's Evil Counterpart and basically being the Anti Christ to Kingpin's Satan. Then we cna have a father/son power struggle ala Charles vs Lelouch in Code Geass.

 

[MadVillainy]

my choice to direct is joe carnahan has shown he could do dark and gritty as shown with narc and the grey and quite a solid director

I wouldnt mind him although I prefer him for The Punisher, but yeah he'd do a good job with Daredevil I think.

My top choice in Nicolas Winding Refn the guy who directed Bronson and Drive. I'd be up for him as long as he doesnt put Christina Hendricks in a role

 

[Project862006]

^same here my only turn off of him doing WW he needs to lay off her she is'nt even that good of an actress

 

[MadVillainy]

I like her as an actress but she has a pip squeak voice that I dont think would suit Wonder Woman, Elektra, or any female costumed character I think

 

[The Overlord]

Kingpin would be a minor antagonist whose true influence isn't revealed until the final moments. Our main antagonist would be Alexander Bont (who represents the last holdout faction) and his costumed dragon, maybe classic Bullseye (who turns on Bont in favor of the Kingpin) or a reimagined minor villain like a Mr Fear, Bullet, or Palladin. Melvin would basically be Matt's client, with flashbacks to his skirmishes with DD as Gladiator, and perhaps a tease of a return to villainy before he backs down. Our climax would be a police/mob/vigilante brawl, sort of the bank heist from Heat meets The Raid.

Paladin is not really villain though and I think Mr. Fear is too similar to Scarecrow. I don't think Bullseye should show up in the first film, it would more effective if he showed up later, plus I would want to reuse a lot of the villains from the first movie. I wouldn't mind Bullet, but personally I like Bushwacker somewhat better. Bullet is another sympathetic villain, having an autistic son, we don't need another sympathetic villain with Gladiator in the mix. I like Bushwacker because he could similar but different to Bullseye, he enjoys killing, but he is far more in control of his bloodlust, more quite then Bullseye, more introspective. Plus Bushwacker's religious fundamentalism could make him a good contrast to DD.

If Richard Fisk doesn't belong to anybody, then I envision him being reimagined into Matt's Evil Counterpart and basically being the Anti Christ to Kingpin's Satan. Then we cna have a father/son power struggle ala Charles vs Lelouch in Code Geass.

Well there could be an obvious gang war between Owl and Kingpin, with Richard as a behind the scenes player, who manipulated both sides and is playing to kill the winner and take the spoils.

 

[Jordacar]

why?

EDIT: to be specific, why if Born Again the best option should they do a tv show

Well, maybe it's not the only option but here's the way I see it:

"Born Again" is an incredible story. No argument there. If it were a sequel (as was originally planned), it might've been Daredevil's The Dark Knight. But as a reboot, it's problematic. Matt Murdock gets completely torn down, but before that happens it's important for the audience to build an attachment to the guy and everything he cares about. So that begs the question of what to do with another movie that leads up to it?

Other than "Born Again", it seems like most of the suggestions others are throwing around involve various one-off bad guys that might not carry a whole film, or much longer story arcs that would have to play out over multiple films. And what are the chances that any of those ideas would be strong enough for a reboot for us to even get a "Born Again" sequel?

What I'm saying is, maybe "Born Again" would make for a good stand-alone film, but I feel it would be 10x better as a culmination to a larger story.

But playing all of that out over a couple of seasons of TV? That makes more sense to me. Even with "Born Again", there doesn't seem to be a lot that happens that would break the back of a TV show, even a network one (though I would prefer FX myself).

On the subject of origins. Most superhero movies have an origin. Sometimes the hero, sometimes a villain, sometimes a sidekick. But it's overused. IMO, a Flash movie doesn't need to show the origin, because his origin and powers aren't that hard to explain. Better to hit the ground running with that one. With DD, I thought the movie had a pretty good story without the origin, and it might've been a lot stronger if they didn't devote so much time to the past.

 

[VM1138]

I never understood the dislike for origin films. I always find those ones (or at least ones when the hero hasnt been active that long) to be the most interesting

Origins can be interesting. But most fans already know the origin and since a lot of origins are similar (tragedy strikes to drive the hero to be a hero) I think people are just ready to jump right into the action.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

How about X-Men? Reboot or MORE sequels?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=390987

Vote Here!

 

[RaZaTrOn]

If you link the Gladiator story with Kingpin's rise to power, that could be interesting, you could draw some ideas from the Man Without Fear mini. The only problem is you need a suitable climax, which would be tricky. Gladiator would more of a victim then a villain in the last act and I am not sure DD fighting with Kingpin's random mooks to protect Melvin is an epic enough climax. Would Kingpin having a heavy hitter in the story be too many villains or would add something for the climax?

In my script Gladiator is a victim of The Kingpin and is used by him to defend his title from the Owl. The climax of my film is DD discovering the truth about pretty much everything - who the Kingpin is and how everything in the film that led up to that point is all connected. Whilst the rest of the world find out the truth about Daredevil.

This would lead on to a potential sequel (you shouldn't write with a sequel in mind) but one where DD is in Japan and you introduce The Hand, Elektra and Bullseye.

 

[TheVileOne]

From Variety:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118057507?refCatId=13

Character-rights deal could buy time for Carnahan, Fox reboot

By Jeff Sneider, Rachel Abrams




The clock is ticking for 20th Century Fox to put its "Daredevil" reboot into production before character rights revert to Marvel -- but Fox chairman Tom Rothman and Marvel brass have been talking about a tradeoff that would allow the comicbook franchise to remain at Fox past its Oct. 10 deadline.
One reason for the backroom dealings: Fox is in discussions with Joe Carnahan to direct what's been described as a "Frank Miller-esque, hardcore 70s thriller" take on blind Hell's Kitchen superhero Matt Murdock -- a vision that would deviate from Disney/Marvel's family-friendly tone. Carnahan has yet to receive an official offer, though multiple sources tell Variety that he's the choice.

But Fox also has something Marvel wants.

Sources say Marvel would give Fox more time to make "Daredevil" in return for the rights to use characters from the "Fantastic Four" universe, including the giant, world-devouring supervillain Galactus, rumored to play a key role in future Marvel pics. Marvel is also eyeing future use of the Silver Surfer, who in the comicbooks brokered a deal to serve as Galactus' herald in order to save his home planet.

Fox owns rights to the Silver Surfer as part of its deal for "Fantastic Four," which the studio is also rebooting with "Chronicle" helmer Josh Trank.

At this point, the ball is said to be in Fox's court, with talks expected to resume later this week. But as of right now, Fox needs to start lensing by the Oct. 10 deadline to keep "Daredevil" in-house.

Neither Fox, Marvel nor reps for Carnahan would comment on the dealings.

David Slade was previously attached to direct the "Daredevil" reboot, which boasts a recent draft by David James Kelly. Chernin Entertainment is producing the pic.

"Daredevil" would mark a return to the Fox lot for Carnahan, who butted heads with the studio while directing "The A-Team"; the two sides appear to have worked out their differences. After the success Open Road Films had with Carnahan's Liam Neeson-starrer "The Grey," Fox quickly began developing Carnahan's actioner "Continue," which was believed to be his next project. CAA-repped helmer is also developing a fresh take on "Death Wish" for MGM.

(Marc Graser contributed to this report.)

Contact Jeff Sneider at [email protected]

 

[MadVillainy]

Interesting...I think the FF trade off is good

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Hope this happens. Marvel's Phase II really should have Galactus and the Silver Surfer included, since they're going cosmic.

 

[TheVileOne]

Would Fox really be willing to do this just so they can make a Daredevil movie?

Not sure.

 

[Saint]

I'd rather see Fox not granted an extension and have the Daredevil rights go back to Marvel, I think--but Marvel knows their own plans better than I do, I suppose. If they want to do this, then those characters must be more important to their future plans than a Daredevil franchise.

It's a shame; I'd really love a good Daredevil movie...

 

[Saint]

Would Fox really be willing to do this just so they can make a Daredevil movie?

Not sure.

They may see Daredevil as their chance at a Dark Knight franchise?

 

[MadVillainy]

Daredevil just doesnt seem to fit in with the cinematic universe Marvel is creating/created so I'm fine with FOX keeping it

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I'd rather see Fox not granted an extension and have the Daredevil rights go back to Marvel, I think--but Marvel knows their own plans better than I do, I suppose. If they want to do this, then those characters must be more important to their future plans than a Daredevil franchise.

It's a shame; I'd really love a good Daredevil movie...

Meh, I'd rather see the SS and Galactus in the MCU instead of Daredevil.

 

[Project862006]

YES!!!

Carnahan is their choice and was my choice to direct perfect match

Narc and The Grey show he can do serious and dark especially Narc which is a very street centric film

 

[Marvel Spider]

Having an edgy 70's DD movie sounds like something that could be incredible and unseen before (no pun intended) if done correctly.


BUT.....


They're getting a director, just TWO months before they need to shoot. That doesn't inspire confidence. The idea of the film is something that captivates me, but it seems like something that would be rushed.

 

[TheVileOne]

They may see Daredevil as their chance at a Dark Knight franchise?

Everyone loves to come in second.

 

[batdude]

The idea sounds good, but I'd rather Marvel do it. so we could have Luke Cage and Iron Fist around for the sequel.