Dark Phoenix Dark Phoenix vs The Last Stand

[Charzhin0]

Would have loved to be making a Dark Phoenix vs X2/DOFP thread but we are here now with the reality of the last Xmen film achieving a 20 something % score on rotten tomatoes.

Seen a mixture of responses from viewers and critics, some say Dark Phoenix is better than X3, others say its the worst xmen movie ever. Which one do you think is better and why

 

[carpenter82]

In my world X2, and DOFP are held at a standard that very few (3 to be specific) comic book films have surpassed. So I definitely wasn't expecting that.

I absolutely preferred Dark Phoenix to X3. I'm probably alone here but I felt like Dark Phoenix captured the spirit of the Dark Phoenix Saga more than X3 ever did. Jean actually has a Journey/character arc in Dark Phoenix. None of that is in X3. In X3 she's just a one dimensional villain that stands in the background for the majority of the movie. Jean's struggle is at the forefront of Dark Phoenix.

 

[Spidey 2007]

In my world X2, and DOFP are held at a standard that very few (3 to be specific) comic book films have surpassed. So I definitely wasn't expecting that.

I absolutely preferred Dark Phoenix to X3. I'm probably alone here but I felt like Dark Phoenix captured the spirit of the Dark Phoenix Saga more than X3 ever did. Jean actually has a Journey/character arc in Dark Phoenix. None of that is in X3. In X3 she's just a one dimensional villain that stands in the background for the majority of the movie. Jean's struggle is at the forefront of Dark Phoenix.

You are absolutely not alone here. Dark Phoenix is through and through far better than Last Stand. Especially in it's treatment of Jean. DP is JEAN'S film. Her character in Last Stand was abysmal and insulting. She's relegated to a sub plot, as the cure is the main story driving everything in Last Stand. Hell, I'd say Jean is 100% worthless to the movie and could have been taken out entirely. She is a prop. It then would have been better and more fleshed out, instead of feeling so cramped. Then maybe X4 would have dealt with Phoenix with a Bryan Singer return, making the anticipation greater.

Basically, if a version of "Dark Phoenix" was released in 2006, with the OT cast, it would have been everything audiences wanted, and had been received far better than both of these movies combined. Dark Phoenix is just too little too late. Standards are much higher, and interest has virtually vanished from the franchise after Apocalypse.

If you judge them both as singular films and what they present, their underlying themes and meaning, Dark Phoenix is much better in nearly every regard. Music as well, even though I adore that John Powell score.

 

[TWayneP]

Last Stand is at the absolute bottom of the pile, so a more apt comparison would be against X-Men 1, Apocalypse, or even First Class IMO.

But it doesn't have to be about quality! This poll makes sense in comparison of the adaptation of the Phoenix saga in the franchise. In that case, Dark Phoenix totally wipes the floor with Last Stand. Oh Boy does it ever!

 

[Sage2016]

I went with Last Stand. I'm not sorry.

 

[Karl Tanner]

The Last Stand is better.

 

[psylockolussus]

X3 easily.

 

[Filmfreak]

Last Stand is a tad better but I don't think either of the two is the worst X-Men movie. That would be Apocalypse. Or Origins if we count solo movies.

 

[Hand Banana]

Both are good films on a technical level that suffer from a below average screenplay.

 

[Charzhin0]

I absolutely preferred Dark Phoenix to X3. I'm probably alone here but I felt like Dark Phoenix captured the spirit of the Dark Phoenix Saga more than X3 ever did. Jean actually has a Journey/character arc in Dark Phoenix. None of that is in X3. In X3 she's just a one dimensional villain that stands in the background for the majority of the movie. Jean's struggle is at the forefront of Dark Phoenix.

Yes i agree that dark Phoenix puts Jeans struggle into a more fleshed out drama, which is what X3 lacked severely. Whether thats enough to make it the better overall movie im not so sure. Action wise I think both are equal. I give the edge of performances to X3 though; beast, Magneto, Wolverine and kitty are standouts. Xavier and Magneto in Dp are above others comfortably.

 

[Charzhin0]

Last Stand is at the absolute bottom of the pile, so a more apt comparison would be against X-Men 1, Apocalypse, or even First Class IMO.

But it doesn't have to be about quality! This poll makes sense in comparison of the adaptation of the Phoenix saga in the franchise. In that case, Dark Phoenix totally wipes the floor with Last Stand. Oh Boy does it ever!

I understand it may appear to be asking which movie is the better dark phoenix saga adapation. But Im just comparing both movies overall on a standalone merit rather than how accurate they are to the source.

 

[carpenter82]

You are absolutely not alone here. Dark Phoenix is through and through far better than Last Stand. Especially in it's treatment of Jean. DP is JEAN'S film. Her character in Last Stand was abysmal and insulting. She's relegated to a sub plot, as the cure is the main story driving everything in Last Stand. Hell, I'd say Jean is 100% worthless to the movie and could have been taken out entirely. She is a prop. It then would have been better and more fleshed out, instead of feeling so cramped. Then maybe X4 would have dealt with Phoenix with a Bryan Singer return, making the anticipation greater.

Basically, if a version of "Dark Phoenix" was released in 2006, with the OT cast, it would have been everything audiences wanted, and had been received far better than both of these movies combined. Dark Phoenix is just too little too late. Standards are much higher, and interest has virtually vanished from the franchise after Apocalypse.

If you judge them both as singular films and what they present, their underlying themes and meaning, Dark Phoenix is much better in nearly every regard. Music as well, even though I adore that John Powell score.

Unfortunately interest was vanishing before Apocalypse based on what I saw online.

Here's my question though, why are standards higher? Personally, I think The Dark Knight is still the ceiling to comic superhero films. Since its release I've only seen two comic book movies come close to that level and they both came from this franchise. From what I've seen Audiences are complacent with superhero films that don't aspire to be at that level of quality which is why I don't get a sense of elevated standards for this genre.

 

[daddydivine]

Unfortunately interest was vanishing before Apocalypse based on what I saw online.

Here's my question though, why are standards higher? Personally, I think The Dark Knight is still the ceiling to comic superhero films. Since its release I've only seen two comic book movies come close to that level and they both came from this franchise. From what I've seen Audiences are complacent with superhero films that don't aspire to be at that level of quality which is why I don't get a sense of elevated standards for this genre.

I think The Dark Knight sets the standard for superhero films that display more gravitas and seriousness. Maybe Logan and Watchmen have to live up to that standard, but the comic book genre has divided itself into vastly different pieces now. Deadpool, Endgame and DOFP, all these movies give audiences a different aspect of the comic book movie. The Dark Knight can't be the standard held for all Comic book movies since it can't represent the entire genre.

I think standards are higher. Kinberg gave us a Last Stand quality movie with Dark Phoenix and nobody is going back to the days where we had to put up with that.

 

[psylockolussus]

I went with Last Stand. I'm not sorry.

You shouldn't. At least the critics would agree with us on this one.

22% vs 57%. no contest.

 

[carpenter82]

I think The Dark Knight sets the standard for superhero films that display more gravitas and seriousness. Maybe Logan and Watchmen have to live up to that standard, but the comic book genre has divided itself into vastly different pieces now. Deadpool, Endgame and DOFP, all these movies give audiences a different aspect of the comic book movie. The Dark Knight can't be the standard held for all Comic book movies since it can't represent the entire genre.

I think standards are higher. Kinberg gave us a Last Stand quality movie with Dark Phoenix and nobody is going back to the days where we had to put up with that.

I'm starting to think my city has a different cut of this movie, because the version I saw was no where near that.

 

[Tcmjuk87]

The Last Stand is better mainly because it doesn't focus on Jean. Sorry but she can't carry a film (and nor can Turner). Jackman saves X3 at the very least (and it has a more interesting cast, who still care about the franchise).

Also the bad moments are actually laughable, whereas the bad moments in DP are just depressing.

Also Magneto crushing cars and lifting a bridge pwns anything Magneto did in DP

 

[DACrowe]

Dark Phoenix. I know right now it is cool to take the piss out of this movie, but Dark Phoenix for all of its flaws kept the focus on Jean, and her relationships with the people most important in her life (Charles and Scott, not Logan). It wins by a default on that.

Additionally, it did the "Xavier feels responsible for Jean's problems" better than X3, had a better climax, and the ending was a much more satisfying conclusion for Jean's arc where it is about her deciding her future, as opposed to asking a man to mercy kill her. I also think the space sequence and train sequence is better than anything in TLS. Plus Hans Zimmer.

That said The Last Stand is a terrible movie while Dark Phoenix is merely mediocre.

 

[MarvelU]

Id say they both fail at adapting the Dark Phoenix storyline so both are on the same level. Some pros and cons from both though, but still both are underwhelming.

 

[writer0327]

Easily X3 for me, I actually lowkey like that movie. DP wasn't dreadful but it wasn't emotionally interesting.

 

[Hammer!]

The Last Stand. They did some interesting things with The Cure storyline, didn’t have Jessica Chastain, and didn’t have the same tired storylines we saw repeated with characters for four more movies.

 

[Charzhin0]

N

Also Magneto crushing cars and lifting a bridge pwns anything Magneto did in DP

That was marvellous.

Action set piece wise TLS crushes DP. Danger room opening, highway transporter flip, Jean Greys house scene, golden gate bridge, alcatraz final battle along with the mini action sequences such multiple mans decoy and Wolverine vs Magnetos lackys in the forest.

 

[kguillou]

Dark Phoenix, not only is the film itself not that bad ( although cant quite call it “good” either) it is much more competent on a filmmaking level. Beautiful cinematography, good performances from the actors, and a more focused narrative. Plus the tone is right, in my book i will take straight faced drama over silly, goofy antics any day and thats what the Last Stand is: goofy camp. As soon as Juggernaut enters the film any gravitas is thrown in the garbage and i’d much rather my comic book movies didnt try to make fun of themselves and take me out the movie.

 

[DACrowe]

N

That was marvellous.

Action set piece wise TLS crushes DP. Danger room opening, highway transporter flip, Jean Greys house scene, golden gate bridge, alcatraz final battle along with the mini action sequences such multiple mans decoy and Wolverine vs Magnetos lackys in the forest.

Yep... all of those were terrible.

Actually, the house sequence where Jean Grey erases Charles is pretty good, I'll admit. The rest though, especially the forest scene and the Danger Room scene, are cheap and ugly looking. Yes, both movies are blah, but Dark Phoenix's space rescue at the beginning is better than any of those. Also the fight in front of Central Park, as small as it is in Dark Phoenix, has more drama to it than the climax of TLS.

Sorry, I'm less concerned about defending DP here than I am at making sure nostalgia-goggles doesn't lead to some twisted revisionism that pretends The Last Stand is anything less than abhorrent.

 

[Hammer!]

I doubt X3 is winning this poll because they finally have developed a fandom for that film after not liking it for 13 years. It’s all about weighing the plus/minuses of two really bad movies. Is Dark Phoenix the worst X-Men movie or is X3.

Actually I suspect the majority would label a apocalypse as the worst. That movie is the absolute abortion of the series in my mind.

 

[Charzhin0]

Yep... all of those were terrible.

Actually, the house sequence where Jean Grey erases Charles is pretty good, I'll admit. The rest though, especially the forest scene and the Danger Room scene, are cheap and ugly looking. Yes, both movies are blah, but Dark Phoenix's space rescue at the beginning is better than any of those. Also the fight in front of Central Park, as small as it is in Dark Phoenix, has more drama to it than the climax of TLS.

Sorry, I'm less concerned about defending DP here than I am at making sure nostalgia-goggles doesn't lead to some twisted revisionism that pretends The Last Stand is anything less than abhorrent.

Its not revisionism you'll find people such as in this thread who always thought X3 wasnt the disaster as its been made out.

I was only comparing the action between the 2 movies. The space scene is splendid but the rest of the movies high budget (supposedly) action is a step down from X3; quite clearly in terms of frequency and scale.

As for the drama at the climax I cant see how you can claim Dark Phoenix has more of it. Before Jean rises with Vuk to destroy herself, do we get anything close to the dramatic final moments when Wolverine is resisting Jeans shredding and eventually stabs her? All i recall is Cyclops shouting Jeaaan before she rises up and dies. Pretty anti climatic